yes they can and if youre bending the regs you deserve a ticket...:mischeif:

 

It doesn't seem you want a discussion at all, you want people to agree with you. To answer your "question", define exigent circumstances. Their definition may differ from yours. It seems that more often than not, people who dislike authority the most are the ones afraid of (and deserve to) getting caught.

 

Ok.. It seems i got off on the wrong foot......Sorry!!! I am not afraid of authority at all, nor do i bend the regs at all (or at least try not to).

After re-reading my original post....it does seem a little one sided, and i have gracefully steped down from my "soap box"

Exigent circumstances is a situation when ones human life or safety is at risk, and an officer has reasone to believe so, and the timing does not allow for consent/warrant.

The main reason that i am asking is that my father-in-law says that they are allowed to do that...and to me...it dosent seem right, because no other peace officer has that power without 1,2,3 above (other than a bail bondsman). I guess im curious.

 

If you are doing something illegal or the warden has reasonable cause to believe you are then he/she has every right to enter your property. It would be hard to prove that they dont have reasonable cause, becuase all they have to say is they recieved an anonymous tip via the poacher hotline, or a complaint of a tresspasser. To be honest with you if a warden showed up on my property 1) I would attempt to assist him/her by every means possible (if I am not doing anything wrong why would I care), and 2) It would tip me off that either I have a very attentive neighbor who is looking at for my property, or the wardens are out and about doing their jobs (a good thing). Now if a warden walked underneath my tresstand every tiem I was in it hunting then I would consider it harrassment and would contact his/her supervisor and the main office in Columbus to report it.

In regards to the Ohio river, I have no sympathy. If you are out there abiding by the law, you have nothing to worry about. From what I hear you have a lot of rich daredevils on the river during the weekends operating boats while intoxicated with no regard for others safety. Let them write more citations is what I say.

In regards to citatations the more they write the more the word gets out and the more people think twice before committing violations.

 

By no means am I an expert, but I do believe reading somewhere that game wardens are the only law enforcement group that does not need a search warrant of any kind...and I agree with this.

 

By no means am I an expert, but I do believe reading somewhere that game wardens are the only law enforcement group that does not need a search warrant of any kind...and I agree with this.

they can come on your place whenever they want...and if they do...they have a reason...maybe your buddy or neighbor told them something that they decided to check into...funny we have others complaining that they never follow up on tips...damned if they do...damned if they dont...:mischeif:

 

By no means am I an expert, but I do believe reading somewhere that game wardens are the only law enforcement group that does not need a search warrant of any kind...and I agree with this.

That is the same information I remember seeing somewhere but I cannot remember where.

 

It's commonly believed that game wardens have different (more) authority than other law enforcement officials, but they do NOT. They fall under the same Constitution that every one else falls under. They just don't remember that sometimes, and not enough people call them on it.

 

M.MAGIS, Actually there is a difference, just not sure if it applies in Ohio. I know in PA that Game Wardens have almost the same law enforcement powers, but CAN NOT do anything in regards to tresspassing (only a police offcier, or sheriff can handle that), and on the same token a police offcier can not enforce fish and Game Laws.

 

Yes, your right, I worded that wrong. What I meant was that they are not exempt from needing a warrant for a search.

 

I think most in any state DNR do the best job they can with very limited resources and I hope this thread doesn't turn into a DNR bashing thread.

 

I have met the game warden for our county and I think he is a really nice guy who is doing the best he can for as little help he has.

 

I've met the officers in several of the counties down here quite a few times.....usually when they see me out they will stop to just chat, and to see how things are going....Poaching is definitely a problem, and particuliarly spotlighting....As buckslayer brought out, they have a lot of territory to cover and not enough guys...but from what I've seen, if you don't have anything to hide and you have a clear concious and your doing everything by the book...everything will be a o.k...their good guys, and trying to help us, not hurt us...

 

I've met the officers in several of the counties down here quite a few times.....usually when they see me out they will stop to just chat, and to see how things are going....Poaching is definitely a problem, and particuliarly spotlighting....As buckslayer brought out, they have a lot of territory to cover and not enough guys...but from what I've seen, if you don't have anything to hide and you have a clear concious and your doing everything by the book...everything will be a o.k...their good guys, and trying to help us, not hurt us...

i agree with this completely,when i hear people badmouthing the wardens i always am suspect of that person...prolly at least in half of these posts the warden was prolly only doing the job we xpect of them to do...my encounters have always been pleasant and usually the wardens give me a tip on a nice buck...

 

I've met the officers in several of the counties down here quite a few times.....usually when they see me out they will stop to just chat, and to see how things are going....Poaching is definitely a problem, and particuliarly spotlighting....As buckslayer brought out, they have a lot of territory to cover and not enough guys...but from what I've seen, if you don't have anything to hide and you have a clear concious and your doing everything by the book...everything will be a o.k...their good guys, and trying to help us, not hurt us...

Poaching is a BIG PROBLEM!! I found a doe lying in drainage ditch accross the road from my land just last January. It was still somewhat alive and i had to put her down. It appeared to have gotten hit by a car. Couple days later, i was cruising up one of my logging trails and discovered a clump of fur. I concluded that she was shot on my land, ran out and got hit.

I know of two of two people who are poachers. I always let them know how i feel about it when the subject comes up. And I informed them that if i hear that they are poaching when the does are nursing thier fawns, they will know who turned them in! (they dont live to far from you SO Outfitters)

Wildlife officers are few and far between down here. I see one parked on the entrance of one of my access roads sometimes very early in the morning, listing for illegal hunting activity/doing paperwork. They have my consent, even though they never asked for it.

I hunt without a license, and i make my own deer tags. I have never had a problem with wildlife officers.

My beef was with watercraft, and i made the mistake of lumping them all together and voicing my oppinion.

So the question is; regardless if "you dont have anything to hide and you have a clear conscience, and you are doing everything by the book...everything will be o.k...their good guys, and trying to help us, not hurt us", are they exempt from the 4th ammendment?

 

Eric here is your answer to your question......

Even in the law enforcement context, the State may interfere with an individual's Fourth Amendment interests with less than probable cause and without a warrant if the intrusion is only minimal and is justified by law enforcement purposes. E.g., Michigan State Police Dept v. Sitz, 496 U.S. 444, 450 ('90); Terry v. Ohio, 392 U.S. 1, 20 ('68).

There you go so any law enforcement officer does not need a warrant as long as the intrusion is minimal, backed by probable cause, and justifiable.

So probable cause = felt or heard poaching or game violations were being broken

minimal = on your land but not in your house

justified by law enforcement purposes (probable cause) = heard a gun shot, saw or heard reports of suspicious activity.

Hope that clears things up.

 

Eric here is your answer to your question......

Even in the law enforcement context, the State may interfere with an individual's Fourth Amendment interests with less than probable cause and without a warrant if the intrusion is only minimal and is justified by law enforcement purposes. E.g., Michigan State Police Dept v. Sitz, 496 U.S. 444, 450 ('90); Terry v. Ohio, 392 U.S. 1, 20 ('68).

There you go so any law enforcement officer does not need a warrant as long as the intrusion is minimal, backed by probable cause, and justifiable.

So probable cause = felt or heard poaching or game violations were being broken

minimal = on your land but not in your house

justified by law enforcement purposes (probable cause) = heard a gun shot, saw or heard reports of suspicious activity.

Hope that clears things up.

Perfect!!!! Thats just what i was looking for.

Allthough your definition of probable cause sounds more like "resonable suspicion", which still would be less then probable cause. I am satisfied. Thanks

 

The Game Warden can come on private property without a warrant. He can not search a building or vehical without a warrant, permission or probable cause.

Most Game Wardens are good guys that aren't out to screw you. However there are a few that are exceptions to the rule. Kinda like the speed trap where tickets are handed out for going 1 mph over the limit.

 

Eric here is your answer to your question......

Even in the law enforcement context, the State may interfere with an individual's Fourth Amendment interests with less than probable cause and without a warrant if the intrusion is only minimal and is justified by law enforcement purposes. E.g., Michigan State Police Dept v. Sitz, 496 U.S. 444, 450 ('90); Terry v. Ohio, 392 U.S. 1, 20 ('68).

There you go so any law enforcement officer does not need a warrant as long as the intrusion is minimal, backed by probable cause, and justifiable.

So probable cause = felt or heard poaching or game violations were being broken

minimal = on your land but not in your house

justified by law enforcement purposes (probable cause) = heard a gun shot, saw or heard reports of suspicious activity.

Hope that clears things up.

Well, I have researched the two stare decisis that you cited. The Michigan case discusses the constitutionality of sobrioty check points. If a peace officer stops your vehicle without probable cause at a check point, is this concidered a 4th amendment siezure? The court ruled no because the vehicle was on a public road, and the intrusion was minimal (officer just asked the driver a question).

The Terry v. Ohio case deals solely with officers safety. An officer has the authority to "pat down" a person for the possession of weapons for his own safety, but not search a person unless incident to arrest. The court made this clear

Both of these cases occured on public property.

So "there you go" OHBOW76, OHIOSAM, as much as you all would like believe that Wildlife officers are exempt, i am no where near convinced.

I agree with M.Magis

This topic is still open for descussion.

 

The law is the law, but and there's always a but, interpretations can and do vary... With that, no game officer has powers outside of the law... as it should be.

 

ok i've done this before...my brother in law was cited and fined for not having written permission on his brothers property...in perry county by larry toki...the warden was suspicious of trespassers on the property so he entered it on his own and legally....well he happened up on my brother in law as he chased a few lawbreakers...he asked my brother in law if he knew them and suspected he did and was with them which wasnt the case...my brother in law never seen the trespassers...well he finally convinced the warden he was hunting on his brothers place...the warden now had confiscated his gun and written a ticket to my brother in law and said he'd get the gun back when he paid the fine...finally my brother in law talked him to going to the house hoping to straighten things out...when they got to the house his brother,the landowner was on the porch...he told the warden that his brother was a care keeper on the property and he didnt need permission to hunt...the warden said his name had to be on the deed or something to that effect...anyway the warden saw the landowners shotgun and confiscated it momentarily...unloaded it and gave it back...i guess this is a legal safety precaution for officers...so my brother in law paid his fine,got his gun back and that was that...only doing his job...why because the owner complained about trespassers...you see the land owner just bought the land...his neighbors who hunted it for years refused to acknowlege another person bought it...and all they had to do was ask to hunt and he'd written them permission...he's an easy guy to get along with...

 

ok i've done this before...my brother in law was cited and fined for not having written permission on his brothers property...in perry county by larry toki...the warden was suspicious of trespassers on the property so he entered it on his own and legally....well he happened up on my brother in law as he chased a few lawbreakers...he asked my brother in law if he knew them and suspected he did and was with them which wasnt the case...my brother in law never seen the trespassers...well he finally convinced the warden he was hunting on his brothers place...the warden now had confiscated his gun and written a ticket to my brother in law and said he'd get the gun back when he paid the fine...finally my brother in law talked him to going to the house hoping to straighten things out...when they got to the house his brother,the landowner was on the porch...he told the warden that his brother was a care keeper on the property and he didnt need permission to hunt...the warden said his name had to be on the deed or something to that effect...anyway the warden saw the landowners shotgun and confiscated it momentarily...unloaded it and gave it back...i guess this is a legal safety precaution for officers...so my brother in law paid his fine,got his gun back and that was that...only doing his job...why because the owner complained about trespassers...you see the land owner just bought the land...his neighbors who hunted it for years refused to acknowlege another person bought it...and all they had to do was ask to hunt and he'd written them permission...he's an easy guy to get along with...

Well Coonskinner, the warden was o.k because the landowner complained about trespassers. This gave the warden a "presumption of consent" to enter the property. As far as your brother-in-law, the regs are that you have to have written permission unless you own the land, or the land is public domain...periiod. If the officer already wrote the ticket...there is no taking it back. Citations are numbered, and are strickly accounted for. You have to plead your case before he/she starts writting. You are correct, the officer only unloaded the landowners shotgun and gave it back. This was purely a safety measure that protects the officer, and you as well (remember, wardens carry guns too).

 

Police and game wardens can come on property with out permission or warrants. They can't enter enclosed buildings, or vehicals, or search your person. Show me a court case that says a law inforcement office can not set foot on private property.

However many will try to imtimidate you into submitting to these searches. Once you give them permission any thing they find you are accountable for. For those that say if you aren't doing anything wrong you have nothing to worry about. I'll guarentee you are violating some law weather you realize it or not.

 

I FOUND IT!!!

OHIO REVISED CODE 1531.13
".....Any regularly employed salaried wildlife officer may enter any private lands or waters if the wildlife officer has good cause to believe and does believe that a law is being violated."

 

I've been checked a handful of times over the years and never had any problems with gamewardens. Once they figure out you are abiding by the laws they usually talk hunting/fishing for a few minutes and wished me good luck.

They definately can come onto private property anytime they suspect something is going on if the land owner has contacted them or not. One time during Monday of gun season I had a stand set up on a wooded creek way off the road. I was visible from the road since I was blazed out (orange) in a full body suit. Around 10am the warden drove his truck right across the field (600-700 yards) right underneath my stand. The ground was not completely frozen and this landowner is VERY PICKY ABOUT DRIVING ON HIS PROPERTY!!!:yikes: Warden ordered me out of my stand, checked my gun (unloaded it also), then checked my permission which I had written permission on me.

I told him I was not happy about him ruining my hunt and the landowner would be pissed about him driving across the field. I had also made the point that I had been hunting the property for 10 years (bow and gun) and my truck is always parked up there - duh!!!!! He did apologize about the hunt, but brushed off the ruts he made:dizzy: I called the farmer asap and told him what had happened because no way did I want him to think I drove my truck back there. He was upset, but he didn't even bother calling to complain - said it wouldn't matter anyway and it was already done.

Other than that, never had a bad experience and during gun season things are crazy - but I was still mad at him.