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May as well close this thread down now. It's nothing more then
.

It's just going to turn into another
and is going to change nobody's mind on the subject.

Those that carry will still do so and will defend themselves when attacked. Those that prefer to cower in fear, or run away when faced with a threat to their person, will still be inclined to do so.

To each their own.
 

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Definitely another OJ case in the making for the media to feast on, but I don't think he will get off like OJ. I also don't understand why we can't have a civil discussion about it here. After all it deals with the 2nd amendment.
It's difficult to have a civil discussion when one party believes there is never any justified reason for self-defense, and if an innocent person does defends themselves from an attacker, they are a criminal, and the attacker is the innocent one.

In a previous thread, when the op started quoting hardcore anti-gun groups websites to defend his position, it's easy to see how "rational" he is thinking.

Even the title of this thread gives insight to his thought process. "Zimmerman=2nd degree murder". Isn't he innocent until PROVEN guilty.

I'm all for a rational civil discussion of the 2nd amendment. I can agree with some of his points, like there is some legal risk that comes with exercising your 2nd amendment right, and people should train above the minimum 12 hours. But it's almost impossible to have a rational, civil discussion, when someone is essentially claiming there is no practical aspect to the 2A, and you should run away or die, rather then defend yourself, because they believe there is NEVER a case where self defense is justified, and you MAY face legal issues.
 

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Posted: 02/24/2012

By: Kristin Byrne, newsnet5.com
CLEVELAND - A 78-year-old man said he acted in self-defense Thursday night when he shot a teen trying to break into his Cleveland home.

Ted Ziolkowksi rents the house on the 7400 block of Clement Avenue. He said he was staying there last night because he was making some repairs to his place.

Around 11 p.m. Ziolkowski heard a knock on his back door, but didn't answer. Moments later, he heard someone trying to break in. He said he pushed the door open and shot the intruder.

"I just fired a shot at him. He was standing right there. I just fired one shot and my gun jammed," Ziolkowski said.

Officials told NewsChannel5 the intruder is a 17-year-old boy. Police reports said the teen was shot in his torso and when police responded, a hand gun, a pry bar and a head scarf were laying next him.

He was transported to MetroHealth Medical Center. We are waiting to hear about his current condition.

Ziolkowski said he had to protect his property.

"The police said that I'm lucky I got him because he had a gun on him, and if he would have fired through the door, he would have got me," Ziolkowski said.

http://www.newsnet5.com/dpp/news/lo...-teen-trying-to-break-into-his-Cleveland-home
Sounds like a good shoot. A clear case of self defense. I'm curious if the OP sees it the same way.
 

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Sort of a confusing story. It calls the suspect an "intruder," but can be interpreted that he never really entered the home. It could also mean the victim of the crime opened his bedroom door, perhaps, and the suspect was inside the back door of the home. Hard to tell with the limited details in the write-up.
True the limited write up may not tell the full story. If he was in the house, the castle doctrine law here in Ohio, would cover cases like this.(I've seen cases where even the front porch was included as part of the home for castle doctrine purposes.) He may have said he was protecting his property, but In his case, it sounds like he was also defending his life. He had a legal right to be there to make repairs, and someone tried to break in. If he is in fear for his life, he is justified to shoot. In cases like this, It is usually best not to give a warning. If they have a gun, their response could be a shot.
 

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If you want to play that game then let's remember that Zimmerman is the only one with a documented history of violence even having attacked a police officer.
If you want, I guess you can call trying to help a friend attacking a police officer.

Did you read the story on that? A friend of his was getting shoved into the wall by someone in plain clothes and he steps in to try and help and pull the guy off. The guy in plain clothes happens to be a cop who depending on who you want to believe never even identified himself.

I guess if you want to twist it, it may be called attacking a police officer. It sounds more like defending a friend. That's probably why the charges were reduced.
 

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It's probably best to stop feeding the troll.

It's obvious from looking at these comments of Hen3ry's from the previous thread on Zimmerman, that he believes there is never a reason for self defense, and that it is better that someone rape, beat, or even murder you, then to pull out a gun and defend yourself.

He calls people that defend themselves criminals, and the attacker/rapist/murderer who died is innocent, because they can't "say" with words, what their intent was.


He believes anyone carrying concealed is a dishonest coward just looking for a chance to shoot someone. And that someone who does defend themselves is guilty until proven innocent.



I'll let his comments speak for him. It's obvious he isn't going to change his anti-gun stance.





Hen3ry stated the following:


"A policeman can't shoot a suspect involved in rape so why should a husband? The act of rape is no worse than any other violation by torture or aggression. It's the sexual overtones and the social stigmas that it carries that cause the problems. It's how WE deal with the victim that causes the lasting problem, not the rape itself.

Thinking that anyone that causes you grievous mental anguish deserves to die is awfully self-centered, don't you think? We have no control over most of the world. All we can do is control ourselves and our own need to "get even"."





"As a prosecutor I'd want to lock up every vigilante and wannabe cop that carries a gun because he's incapable of defending himself in the stuations he places himself in like your example of the guy who followed some thieves."




"But ALL you examples end in a shooting. I don't see where waving your gun is enough to satisy the adrenaline rush your shooters seem to be on.

In the end, I see you asking for more trouble by carrying a gun than in just suffering through the knocks and dings of life. "






"To me, "common sense" says that by carrying a gun 24/7, all you're doing is either looking for trouble to be a hero for, think this is the old west in the 1800's, or just like to stick your neck out to see if some court may eventually cut it off for you."






"Most people when they get mad just want to hurt you back. They aren't out to kill you (even though they say that) and they shouldn't have to die just to prevent you from feeling any discomfort."






When Hen3ry was asked:

"WHAT do you feel would be a clear cut self defense case? Or, does one not exist?"

He responded:


"It doesn't exist. The evidence simply indicates that someone was shot or killed. The rest is up to the legal system. With them, you roll the dice. That's what makes cc such a long way to stick your neck out on a slim bet that someday you just might be attacked, raped, or killed."







"Most people can't figure out who's the murderer on most TV shows after an hour of evidence, but you expect that those very same people can tell the difference between a husband and wife arguement and a stranger about to attack some woman. Isn't that expecting a lot?":rolleyes:







"My contention is that the crime is shooting someone. The justfication is self-defense. "





"I said that any shooting is a crime until proven otherwise. "




"But, to hide your gun just to keep from scaring people seems a bit dishonest, don't you think? "






"As a son, I'd start to wonder about my dad's fears and why I shouldn't be carrying a gun to my grade school, too, since shootings happen in schools all the time. As a daughter, I might think my dad a bit of a coward since he was the only dad she knew that felt a need to be armed. As a wife, I'd worry that your paranoia was infecting the kids."






"I'm saying that as soon as you pull your gun out, even if you don't fire, your butt becomes the property of the justice system until further notice."
 
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