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A friend if mine posted this in another forum ,but thought you guys would like to read it.

while we are on the subject of taxes.
i know this post is going to boil some blood but hopefully i will get my point across.

i just read this article http://www.nbc4columbus.com/money/1956890/detail.html and it didnt take much time for me to figure out who the state is targetting on this issue, and i think it is about time they do. i wont mention any names but the place lights up the sky in marysville. before everyone gets all excited i would like to just say a few things. here ill get it out HONDA is the culprit.

1. if you didnt know honda built the plants where they did in the usa because they were given a grant to "not have to pay property taxes or other related business taxes". now this is good because it brought in all these jobs to the areas that the plants were built which caused growth to these areas, but what it did in return was raise property taxes for those that live in the areas of the plants, who is paying the taxes, the citizens are, who isnt, honda. lets say ford were to build a plant, do you think they get a tax break... nope .

2. where does a majority of the profits honda makes from all them products that come out of the ohio plants go, right back to where the name originates.

3. people buy these cars thinking there buying an american made product. not so, just one that is put together here. first thing a honda owner will tell you when you say it is a foreign car, no it isnt, its made in america. back in 92 or 93 i think was the year, the only thing made stateside was the piston rings, but since then the have gotten a little smarter and opend up all these little manufacturing plants in small towns such as kalida ohio and pay people cookie crumbs. go to that town and ask there where they would rather work.. at the kalida honda factory or the lima (ford) engine plant. ill bet my paycheck that 9 out of 10 would say the engine plant.

3. they (foreign) have forced the big 3 to move jobs out of this country, just so they can try to make the same amount of profit so inverstors will stick with them. it doestn take rocket science to figure out that something can be made cheaper in a third world country. its not about the american way anymore, its about the american dollar. GREED.

4. quality will always be issue no matter what your talkin about. saying im not going to buy something because it wears out or it breaks is just wishful thinking.. never move a bone in you body, that way you dont break it. probally alot of the reasons quality went to heLL in this country was because look where all the materials / textiles started to come from back in the 70's. why do the japanese make better products, probally cause they dont have the kinda labor laws or rights like people in the united states do. they go to work, look down and build fishing reels all day.. when there done with there 12 hour day, they go home.

what happens when an area has a significant amount of jobs lost.

1. less money is spent. local business all suffer.
2. people vote no on school levy's, kids suffer, teachers suffer.
3. healthcare standards drop, people cant afford it.
4. people live in fear if there the next one to loose there job.
5. marriages suffer

summary

i could probally go on and on but i wont. if we ( i am guilty too) the american people dont start to make some changes this is not going to be america, someone is going to sneek in and take control right out from under our feet, which i think it has already shown. just take a look at the ohio warn act and look at the number of jobs lost in ohio in the last 5 years, and keep in mind that is not the complete list, but only mass amounts at an individual time.

hope no one takes this personally

fire away.

:mad:
 

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im against buying anything jap. made.no cars,give me a chevy or even the lowly ford.and look at boots.you have no choice,all our boot companies are hiring chinese to make them. same for appliances.and rods and reels are mostly made by some one with squinty eyes.round eyes need jobs too.just ask the people in nelsonville that used to make rocky boots.puerto rico make them now.and i for one will never forget pearl harbor,no jap. cars here!
 

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Dont' have much time to comment tonight, but I'll catch up with you tomorrow and "flame away" at will.

I will say for starters, you have some pretty good argument points, but your only taking them at face value. Since your comparing Honda to Ford, I'll go ahead and hit the "UNION" thing also...to be continued tomorrow...I could go on for weeks jsut on what you have posted above.


Oldhat (Business Owner, Engineer, Father, Husband, VFW, Political Hack and a top 5% Tax Bracket Puke).


P.S.... To quote BV (George) from another thread............................... "INCOMING"!
 

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I have to agree with Oldhat the"U" word has to be considered.
While I also agree with buying American cars (but not necessarily
outboard motors) I wonder how others look at NAFTA?
 

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The Two Sure Things In Life

The two sure things in life are death and taxes, the government just hasn't figured out a way to tax you while your in the grave. But I'm sure their working on that ! :D
 

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Boy Oh' Boy, where should I start. There are so many things that I could say.

I'll start by saying and hopefully I have taken this correctly and by all means let me know if I am wrong. But, through your first few Paragraphs you state how "evil" Honda is and you basically want to run them out of the country for the evils that it "FORCES" upon individuals, communties, and the USA. Then, you list things that are in effect things that happen when communities do not have jobs (right above the summary) and you say:

"1. less money is spent. local business all suffer.
2. people vote no on school levy's, kids suffer, teachers suffer.
3. healthcare standards drop, people cant afford it.
4. people live in fear if there the next one to loose there job.
5. marriages suffer"


Is this a mixed message, or am I missing something? You First say how evil something is, then you say how bad it is "without this thing" (Honda or any company for the sake of argument).
Now, if I am reading this correctly, then you want Honda for the good things, but despise them for the bad (your accusations). In essence you have conveyed the message that you "want your cake and to eat it also", but it's through no falt of your own (or these forced to work for "bread crum" winnners. Nope, all the fault of Honda.

Nothing to see here folks....just keep moving on.

Now and this is a big one:
"why do the japanese make better products, probally cause they dont have the kinda labor laws or rights like people in the united states do. they go to work, look down and build fishing reels all day.. when there done with there 12 hour day, they go home."

So this is a bad thing? What exactly are you trying to say? That looking "down" for 12 hours/day and building fishing reel is a "bad" thing? How about your typical American Auto worker day?
Sure, show up to work, say "I am filing a grievence"......"That's not my job"......then spend 4 hours overtime because they didn't do "diddly squat" all day. Then the same guy will complain that the company moved out of country for cheaper wages so they could remain competitive. Was that worker working competively himself or was he "milking it to the hilt".

You ever hear of someone that intentionally started a company in order to lose money? Or how about when you talk about "working for cookie crumbs"....I guess these people are forced to work, gun right to their head and all. Ever heard of getting another job? Oh, you say there are no more jobs? Then maybe the "cookie crumb winner" should try and be more "employable". Oh, and those same people are worried about losing their jobs? That's something I have never worried about and never will. I continually re-invest in myself in order to remain competitive at all times.... a "demand"...not a supply like un-skilled labor, but a demand.

Now you then say something about "quality" and

So, how much should a person whom sits, stands, or squats make above the "cookie crumb going rate"? How much is a person worth that simply turns a screw all day?....not much more than the screw itself..."here could you hold this"? But no, it's no ordinary screw, it's a golden screw he screws in. Hey, it's still a screw, same principle.

Now sure I can hear it "Oldhat, you have no respect for the "human condition". I have respect for people, but not their condition. Sure you meet a few that truely have fell into a lot of un-deserving hardships, but the majority simply wander through life looking for "hand-outs" when they have limited themselves through a series of bad decision making.

...."make some changes this is not going to be america, someone is going to sneek in and take control..."

I sir am glad you typed/started this thread, lets me know exactly whom and where the real threat is coming from .

To be continued........................................


Oldhat
 

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>>>>ON EDIT:

"Now you then say something about "quality" and "


stuck this right in the middle of my paragraph...Please ignore it,
I'll start there tomorrow.

Geeesh, I need to at least look for spelling errors, fragmented sentences, and the like before posting.

Let's say this:

ALL OF THE ABOVE (see above) post by Oldhat is "On Edit"

Oldhat
 

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OK, now on the "quality issue"

You say (to paraphrase a bit): "that quality went to hell back in the 70's because of where all of the parts came from".

Your kidding me right? I don't know how old you are, but take yourself back to the 70's and try and recall any car that was more reliable in all aspects more-so-than in today's market. I can remember the pre-70's auto mobiles....can you say "lemons" compared to today's automobiles. "The big 3" still haven't recovered from the trash they put out nor will they ever until they start doing things correctly.


So now, I'll come right out and say it: I am a Toyota fan and I'll probably never buy one single "Big 3" auto again in my life if I can keep from it. There isn't even any comparison between the Toyota's that I have had over the past 10 years to all the other "American made" auto's I have had. I have had a 1993 Toyota 4X4 traded it in @ 135k miles, a 1996 Camry, traded it in 2001 w/110K, I now currently have a 1999 Toyota Tacoma Xcab, and a 2001 Toyota Forerunner. Out of all of these cars, guess what my worst problem was? Nothing, not one single inkling or even a hint of a problem. The closest thing I ever had to a problem was that my wife said one day: "Honey my camry wouldn't start this morning"...me, "what , I'll go check it out" So I go outside jump in the car, turn it over and it starts right up, do that a few times and no problems occur what-so-ever. I go back in the house and tell her that "I couldn't find anything wrong" she says "oh, it ended up starting, but the first time I turned it over it didn't start, but it started right up on the second try". (It was in 97 or 98, and in the winter..was about 20 degrees that morning if my memory serves me right). Talk about having confidence in vehicles, but that was only achieved once I switched from "American made" To Japanese auto's.

Now, back to Honda. I used to work for a supplier to Honda. Was my "first real engineering job" after graduating college. I installed the Halogen headlight production line at a company called Stanley Electric in London Ohio. I was utterly amazed at other process lines and products and the amount of quality that was emphasized on every product line we offered. Some of the parts we were making were phenominal. The QA testing was likewise much higher than any QA I have since seen. And ISO certification was acheived almost immediatly. Sure, most comapanies achieve ISO certification, but the way the other companies achieve that is through "Smoke and mirrors" just to get the ISO certifications.

And at that supplier to Honda, you talk about "cookie crumb" wages. I feel the employees there were treated pretty fairly. I recall that normal production labor personel were hired in at $9.50/hr. from day one and received $.50 increments every 4 months until there first year was up. This got them to $11 an hr. upon the anniversary of their 1st year. That was back in 93. Look at your good ol' American auto companies now, GM is starting most out for $8.50 an hr. and it's 10 years later than the wages I quoted for the supplier to Honda I used to work at (which was also a Japanese company).

Another Toyota issue. the Camry had 90k miles on it....figured that "man I need to get some brakes put on this car, it's got to need brakes". SO I take it and drop it off at the local "Goodyear" to get brakes put on. About 2 hours later, the manager of the store calls me and says" Mr. Anderson, why did you want to have brakes put on this Camry?". Me "Well, it has 90K on it, figured it needed a new set". him "well, you can come down and get your Camry and then bring it back when it hits 150K and it will need a set of brakes"....heheeheheh! Gotta love that! I was used to these American made vehicles with the cheap brakes that go every 25-30k.

The quality does not compare. What you are missing, is that the "big 3" want you to purchase a vehicle every 3-5 years, and they pretty much only mkae them to last that long before a major repair will have to be made. The Japanese seen this as a way into the market and that's how they grabbed their current market share of today. The "big 3" failed to see the writing on the wall.

Oldhat
 

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TAXES:


Alright, how much to you presume the companies should have to fork out in taxes?

And the idea that all of this money and profits are going back overseas is crazy. Ever look into Stocks? Whom do you think owns the companies?

How much do you think in taxes does the employer pay that matches the taxes paid by the employee? Well, you said "no property taxes or business taxes".

And your property taxes and school taxes.

The school's, come on how much more money should we dump in our liberal controlled public funded educational system? It's time to go in, flush all the crap down the drain and start anew.

And to think that Ford wouldn't get a tax break if they wanted to move in an open a plant is also a statement that I can't believe you made. That's how it works with nearly all "significant" companies these days.

It would be funny to see Honda say "well, we'll just pack up and move to Southern Ohio or W. Virginia"...., You would see the quality of life go right down the tube from 30 miles in any direction from Marysville, It would go back to Corn fields and soy beans for as far as the eye could see (that's not really a bad thing though in my mind, but we're not talking agriculture).

For the first closing, I'll say this "A fool and his money are soon parted". Spend it all, blow it all, never invest or re-invest in yourselves when in "good times" and you'll likely soon be parted of more than money when some mediocre times occur.

Oldhat (still ranting)
 

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Desperado:

Alright, if you feel the desire to post something, then you should at least be responsible enough to reply to the debunk. It's kind of an un-written rule in the land of internet forums. You attemted to start a debate and won't follow through with it/prove your points.


Sure, you can put something out there and want to hear of others opinions, but if you put out "fictional statements/personal ideas" you should at least hang around and defend your ideology regarding the matter. So, at this point, since you have not responded, I think it is fair to say that your statements from the orignal posts hold no merit and have been proven false.

Never intended to "flame" you in discussion of the original post. But, I will flame you for not arguing your points and starting a post you never intended to follow up on.
 

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Likewise, please accept another "flame" from me for the fact that as a "moderator" for this site I will say that you should have known better.

Yeah, there probably isn't too many written rules for moderators, and nor should there be. But a moderator should not be permitted to post some "personal opinion" piece then ignore any and all replies to that piece. You could have just "locked" the thread from the begining and achieved the same results.

I'd say in all fairness, this thread and any future pieces like it should be deleted as a piece of propaganda since the author has not defended his/her stance and no others have taken on the debate without the original author if it does not "offer" anything to other viewers.

Being dogmatic is not considered relevant or warranted in a debate.

Oldhat
 

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i would only buy american products but i can't find any.also i wonder who taught the japs. how to be so sucessful in the 1st place and who footed the bill?
 
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