Thats good stuff. Thanks for the reminder Geezer!!
Suspension Trauma
http://www.answers.com/topic/suspension-trauma
PLEASE GO TO THE ABOVE THREAD AND READ ABOUT SUSPENSION TRAUMA - A PERSON HANGING IN A SAFETY HARNESS CAN BECOME UNSCONSIOUS IN AS LITTLE AS 6 MINUTES WITH DEATH FOLLOWING
I HAVE NOT SEEN THIS SUBJECT ON HUNTING FOURMS AND FEEL THAT I SHOULD BRING THIS TO YOUR ATTENTION
A SAFETY HARNESS IS ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY FOR HUNTING OUT OF A TREE STAND BUT YOU NEED TO HAVE A PLAN AND SYSTEM TO GET BACK TO THE GROUND AFTER THE FALL...... ESPECIALLY FOR THOSE THAT USE CLIMBING STANDS AND DO NOT HAVE ANY KIND OF STEPS ATTACHED TO THE TREE
PLEASE BE SAFE OUT THERE
take care
geezer
PLEASE GO TO THE ABOVE THREAD AND READ ABOUT SUSPENSION TRAUMA - A PERSON HANGING IN A SAFETY HARNESS CAN BECOME UNSCONSIOUS IN AS LITTLE AS 6 MINUTES WITH DEATH FOLLOWING
I HAVE NOT SEEN THIS SUBJECT ON HUNTING FOURMS AND FEEL THAT I SHOULD BRING THIS TO YOUR ATTENTION
A SAFETY HARNESS IS ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY FOR HUNTING OUT OF A TREE STAND BUT YOU NEED TO HAVE A PLAN AND SYSTEM TO GET BACK TO THE GROUND AFTER THE FALL...... ESPECIALLY FOR THOSE THAT USE CLIMBING STANDS AND DO NOT HAVE ANY KIND OF STEPS ATTACHED TO THE TREE
PLEASE BE SAFE OUT THERE
take care
geezer
1 - 20 of 117 Posts
Also You Must Be Careful With Harnesses Looping Onto Things...anything,tree Steps,part Of Your Stand Or Limbs...i've Been Hung Up A Few Times With The Harness Grabbing Something...just Something To Be Aware Of...i Do Use The Harness Going Up And Down But Not Always...i Always Have It On In Stand But Am Seriously Looking At The Very Good Vest Safety Harnesses...:d
That is the paradox. Most guys will tell u they use a harness but fail to use one acending, decending and entering the stand. These are the times most accidents occur. Good topic that needs brought up Every season.
I bought a HSS Mesh Pro Series vest this year and it says right in the instructions to carry a screw-in step in the pocket of it to screw into the tree and stand on in the event of a fall. It doesn't specifically mention suspension trauma but I assume this is what they are getting at. So I carry one of the folding tree steps from now on. I do however wonder what I should do if I fall while using my climber. Its great that I have a step to stand on but how do I get down? Any thoughts?
"In normal life, this problem does not occur because when we walk our veins naturally move blood back out of our legs, but when movement is restricted and we are stuck standing still we naturally faint to recover. Ordinarily, falling to the ground after fainting, would have the effect of raising the legs relative to the heart, and consciousness would soon return."
This article is a bunch of horse ****!!!!!!!!!! Nothing against you geezer at all, but the information is one sided and has little if any medical information backing it. If thats the case most people would faint while driving, most people would fainting while riding in any vehicle. Besides who is gongi to jsut hang there for an hour. Wouldnt most people jsut pull themselves back up into their stand? For example, parachuters hang in the same fasion while falling from the sky for well over 6 minutes. Why dont they pass out??? Again this is not an attack to you geezer, just wanted to add a little insight on this topic from a medical stand point. Another example, paraplegics or quadraplegics do not move their afficted appendeges. Why dont they faint??? Granted there are risks of sitting in one position and not moving for a long time. Such as DVTs, otherwise known as deep vein thromboses. This is basicly a blood clot that is caused from lack of movement and blood pooling in veins because it isnt being adequately circulated. People on trips in vehicles that last for 4 or more hours without getting up are at risk. Truck drivers are commonly diagnosed with DVTs due to the duration of sitting in the same seat for such long periods of time. A lot of times resulting in a PE or a pulmonary embolus, or a blood clot in the lung. Again this is over long periods of time, not 6 minutes liek this article claims. Ever wake up and your foot, leg, or arm is asleep? Ya, thats a result of lack of perfusion of blood to that depicted area. The time it takes that to occur is probably around 6 minutes, people don't die from that. If you have not caught the point of my rambling it is this, DONT BELIEVE EVERYTHING YOU READ UNLESS IT HAS A CREDIBLE SOURCE BACKING IT!!!!!!
This article is a bunch of horse ****!!!!!!!!!! Nothing against you geezer at all, but the information is one sided and has little if any medical information backing it. If thats the case most people would faint while driving, most people would fainting while riding in any vehicle. Besides who is gongi to jsut hang there for an hour. Wouldnt most people jsut pull themselves back up into their stand? For example, parachuters hang in the same fasion while falling from the sky for well over 6 minutes. Why dont they pass out??? Again this is not an attack to you geezer, just wanted to add a little insight on this topic from a medical stand point. Another example, paraplegics or quadraplegics do not move their afficted appendeges. Why dont they faint??? Granted there are risks of sitting in one position and not moving for a long time. Such as DVTs, otherwise known as deep vein thromboses. This is basicly a blood clot that is caused from lack of movement and blood pooling in veins because it isnt being adequately circulated. People on trips in vehicles that last for 4 or more hours without getting up are at risk. Truck drivers are commonly diagnosed with DVTs due to the duration of sitting in the same seat for such long periods of time. A lot of times resulting in a PE or a pulmonary embolus, or a blood clot in the lung. Again this is over long periods of time, not 6 minutes liek this article claims. Ever wake up and your foot, leg, or arm is asleep? Ya, thats a result of lack of perfusion of blood to that depicted area. The time it takes that to occur is probably around 6 minutes, people don't die from that. If you have not caught the point of my rambling it is this, DONT BELIEVE EVERYTHING YOU READ UNLESS IT HAS A CREDIBLE SOURCE BACKING IT!!!!!!
Just carry two steps with you. Screw them both in staggered. Stand on one while you slide your harness down so you can reach the next one. Get to the lower step, remove the top, and repeat the process over again. That's what I have planned in the case of an emergency.I bought a HSS Mesh Pro Series vest this year and it says right in the instructions to carry a screw-in step in the pocket of it to screw into the tree and stand on in the event of a fall. It doesn't specifically mention suspension trauma but I assume this is what they are getting at. So I carry one of the folding tree steps from now on. I do however wonder what I should do if I fall while using my climber. Its great that I have a step to stand on but how do I get down? Any thoughts?
No this is not B.S. I first heard of this in an OSHA report about 4 years ago. People do and have passed out while working from a suspended saftey harness. It's not to say that all people would react the same. Maybe it is only people with poor circulation? But I would still say it is a concern. As for passing out from standing! I would have a hard time believing that, cuz I've had the seat rip out of my treestand and I stood on stand for hours.
"In normal life, this problem does not occur because when we walk our veins naturally move blood back out of our legs, but when movement is restricted and we are stuck standing still we naturally faint to recover. Ordinarily, falling to the ground after fainting, would have the effect of raising the legs relative to the heart, and consciousness would soon return."
This article is a bunch of horse ****!!!!!!!!!! Nothing against you geezer at all, but the information is one sided and has little if any medical information backing it. If thats the case most people would faint while driving, most people would fainting while riding in any vehicle. Besides who is gongi to jsut hang there for an hour. Wouldnt most people jsut pull themselves back up into their stand? For example, parachuters hang in the same fasion while falling from the sky for well over 6 minutes. Why dont they pass out??? Again this is not an attack to you geezer, just wanted to add a little insight on this topic from a medical stand point. Another example, paraplegics or quadraplegics do not move their afficted appendeges. Why dont they faint??? Granted there are risks of sitting in one position and not moving for a long time. Such as DVTs, otherwise known as deep vein thromboses. This is basicly a blood clot that is caused from lack of movement and blood pooling in veins because it isnt being adequately circulated. People on trips in vehicles that last for 4 or more hours without getting up are at risk. Truck drivers are commonly diagnosed with DVTs due to the duration of sitting in the same seat for such long periods of time. A lot of times resulting in a PE or a pulmonary embolus, or a blood clot in the lung. Again this is over long periods of time, not 6 minutes liek this article claims. Ever wake up and your foot, leg, or arm is asleep? Ya, thats a result of lack of perfusion of blood to that depicted area. The time it takes that to occur is probably around 6 minutes, people don't die from that. If you have not caught the point of my rambling it is this, DONT BELIEVE EVERYTHING YOU READ UNLESS IT HAS A CREDIBLE SOURCE BACKING IT!!!!!!
Well i didn't write the article and you are missin the point its not about people sitting its about people suspened vertically - rock climbers, parachuters and such are trained to move their legs to maintain their circulation -"In normal life, this problem does not occur because when we walk our veins naturally move blood back out of our legs, but when movement is restricted and we are stuck standing still we naturally faint to recover. Ordinarily, falling to the ground after fainting, would have the effect of raising the legs relative to the heart, and consciousness would soon return."
This article is a bunch of horse ****!!!!!!!!!! Nothing against you geezer at all, but the information is one sided and has little if any medical information backing it. If thats the case most people would faint while driving, most people would fainting while riding in any vehicle. Besides who is gongi to jsut hang there for an hour. Wouldnt most people jsut pull themselves back up into their stand? For example, parachuters hang in the same fasion while falling from the sky for well over 6 minutes. Why dont they pass out??? Again this is not an attack to you geezer, just wanted to add a little insight on this topic from a medical stand point. Another example, paraplegics or quadraplegics do not move their afficted appendeges. Why dont they faint??? Granted there are risks of sitting in one position and not moving for a long time. Such as DVTs, otherwise known as deep vein thromboses. This is basicly a blood clot that is caused from lack of movement and blood pooling in veins because it isnt being adequately circulated. People on trips in vehicles that last for 4 or more hours without getting up are at risk. Truck drivers are commonly diagnosed with DVTs due to the duration of sitting in the same seat for such long periods of time. A lot of times resulting in a PE or a pulmonary embolus, or a blood clot in the lung. Again this is over long periods of time, not 6 minutes liek this article claims. Ever wake up and your foot, leg, or arm is asleep? Ya, thats a result of lack of perfusion of blood to that depicted area. The time it takes that to occur is probably around 6 minutes, people don't die from that. If you have not caught the point of my rambling it is this, DONT BELIEVE EVERYTHING YOU READ UNLESS IT HAS A CREDIBLE SOURCE BACKING IT!!!!!!
WHERE IS YOUR CREDIBLE SOURCE BACKIN ???????????
FOR THOSE INTERESTED IN UNDERSTANDING '"TARAUMA SUSPENSION" THERE IS A LOT OF INFORMATION OUT THERE ABOUT IT - JUST GOOGLE " TRAUMA SUSPENSION "
MANY PEOPLE ARE NOT CAPABLE OF PULLING THEMSELFS BACK INTO THEIR STAND AND THE STAND MAY NOT BE IN CONDITION TO REMOUNT
IT IS SUGGESTED THAT YOU KEEP YOUR SAFETY HARNESS TETHER ATTACHED HIGH ON THE TREE AND AS SHORT AS POSSIBLE SO THAT IF YOU DO FALL YOU ARE ABLE TO REACH YOUR STAND - SOME ARE SUGGESTING CARRYING A RAPELLING GEAR - I THINK ITS IS A GREAT IDEA TO CARRY THE EXTRA STEP OR TWO - I HAVE ALSO SEEN SOME FALL DEVISES ON THE MAKET BUT DO NOT KNOW ANYONE WHO HAS EVER USED THEM
MY POSTING OF THIS ISSUE WAS NOT TO START AN ARGUMENT WITH ANYONE - IT YOU READ IT - IT IS UP TO YOU IF YOU BELIEVE IT OR NOT - SO I AM REALLY NOT INTEREST IN IF ANYONE THINKS ITS HORSE SHAT OR NOT -
AS A SIDE NOTE I HAVE SEEN SOME MEN IN MILITARY HONOR GUARD DETAILS FAINT WHILE STANDING AT STRICT ATTENTION DUE TO THIS -
PLEASE TAKE IT AS IT WAS INTENTED AND PUT THE HORSE STUFF IN A FOOD PLOT
http://www.osha.gov/dts/shib/shib032404.html
take care
geezer
NO MATTER GUYS IF YOU DO FALL YOU SHOULD HAVE A BACK UP PLAN HOW TO GET DOWN...ITS AS SIMPLE AS THAT...AND THERE HAS BEEN CASES OF THOSE UPSIDE DOWN TOO LONG THAT HAVE DIED...THE WHOLE THING BRINGS ATTENTION TO HAVING A BACK UP PLAN,AND I FOR ONE WANT TO GET DOWN FAST AND SAFE AS I CAN...OFFER SOLUTIONS NOT ARGUMENT...I ALWAYS TIE THE ROPE THAT CONNECTS THE BASE TO THE SEAT ON CLIMBERS...BUT I THINK THE BEST THING IS TO MAKE SURE THE BASE IS SEATED WELL INTO THE TREE...AND THE TOP SEAT GETS A GOOD BITE...THATS AS IMPORTANT AS THE SAFETY HARNESS BEING ATTACHED IN MY OPINION WHILE CLIMBING OR COMING DOWN...PREVENT THE PROBLEM IN THE FIRST PLACE AND YOU DONT WORRY BOUT HANGIN IN A TREE IN A HARNESS...GET THERE EARLY SO YOU CAN TAKE SOME TIME GOING UP...AND COMING DOWN THERES NO REASON TO HURRY ...EVEN IF YOU GOTTA USE THE BATHROOM REAL BAD...TAKING MY TIME AND BEING XTRA CAREFUL HAS KEPT ME ACCIDENT FREE OVER 40 YRS...NOT ONLY WITH TREESTANDS BUT CLIMBING LADDERS AS A ROOFER WHERE YOU DONT USE HARNESSES AND I NEVER USED HARNESES OR BELTS IN MY EARLY YRS. HUNTING AND WITH A BAKER CLIMBER!!!BUT TODAY IT WOULD BE FOOLISH NOT TO WEAR THEM...BUT THEY ALSO CREATE PROBLEMS THAT CAN HURT YOU TOO THAT YOU HAVE TO BE AWARE OF...TAKE YOUR TIME,BE SURE WHERE YOUR FEET ARE AND A GOOD GRIP WITH YOUR HANDS...:biggrin:
Geezer, did you see that I said this is not an attack on you?? I was just saying this isnt a 100% true. I was adding to it and making it known that this is not 100% on the road to the truth. Focus on what I say then think about it before you get defensive on me. Yes hanging suspended for a long time would be imparitive on circulation, but not 6 minutes like the article states. Every person's body circulates blood a little differently. Many different factors play a role in adequate circulation and perfusion. Just to name a few: plaque build up, anatomical anomolies, arteriole sclerosis, vascular removal for people who have had major artery transplants.
As far as my credible source, I am my credible source considering I work in a hospital, I am a respiratory therapist. I deal with cardiopulmonary situations on a daily bases, DVTs and PEs are part of my daily pt. management. Also I consulted two physicians on the article before I posted my reply. Syncopy from hanging for six minutes is just not medicaly sound. Perhaps if you were haning with a rope around your neck. I am not arguing, simply stating the facts from a medical stand point. You sir, take it for what I intended; that being to inform you of the facts so you know full understanding so people do not go around speaking of information that is not 100% factual.
As far as my credible source, I am my credible source considering I work in a hospital, I am a respiratory therapist. I deal with cardiopulmonary situations on a daily bases, DVTs and PEs are part of my daily pt. management. Also I consulted two physicians on the article before I posted my reply. Syncopy from hanging for six minutes is just not medicaly sound. Perhaps if you were haning with a rope around your neck. I am not arguing, simply stating the facts from a medical stand point. You sir, take it for what I intended; that being to inform you of the facts so you know full understanding so people do not go around speaking of information that is not 100% factual.
I tried it once it doesn't work. the problem was while standing on one step and squatting down, your arms don't have the reach to screw the step in much lower that the one you are on. It's very difficult to do and you'll only make it 6 inches at most at time. The better idea would be to screw them both in and try to get back in your stand.Just carry two steps with you. Screw them both in staggered. Stand on one while you slide your harness down so you can reach the next one. Get to the lower step, remove the top, and repeat the process over again. That's what I have planned in the case of an emergency.
Also If you fall from your stand and you harness catches you where you cant reach your stand you just had a 9 foot fall (from the platform of your stand being 3 feet above your head) .... and if you are using a 9 foot tether something is wrong. your harness should be placed high enough that you can just sit down and step to the end of your stand while standing sideways. at this distance if you fall the stand will be at your knees or waist level.
lol a 9 foot fall with a harness would be the same as jumping off your roof. a sudden stop is a sudden stop.
Well all i can say is from the information i have read so far, have a doctor and three RN,s in the family - but they have never delt with a case of suspension trauma, is that many medical and rescue people are not aware of this and the rescue people can actually cause harm if they use the wrong technique during the rescue - we each have a different take on the read - have you or any of the doctors you consulted ever dealt with suspension trauma? -well i think that you should direct your expert medical knowledge to the people who publish these article and set them straight - you have stated that the information is not 100 % factual which leads one to believe that some % of it is factual - could you let those interested in this subject know what % of the information on this subject published in numerous articles in factual - thanks - i take no offense in what you have posted - as my knowledge of this subject is limited and my original intent was to make tree stand users awary of "suspension trauma" there is no point in me making further comment on this subject as i will leave that to the medical experts, osha and others that have had experience in this areaGeezer, did you see that I said this is not an attack on you?? I was just saying this isnt a 100% true. I was adding to it and making it known that this is not 100% on the road to the truth. Focus on what I say then think about it before you get defensive on me. Yes hanging suspended for a long time would be imparitive on circulation, but not 6 minutes like the article states. Every person's body circulates blood a little differently. Many different factors play a role in adequate circulation and perfusion. Just to name a few: plaque build up, anatomical anomolies, arteriole sclerosis, vascular removal for people who have had major artery transplants.
As far as my credible source, I am my credible source considering I work in a hospital, I am a respiratory therapist. I deal with cardiopulmonary situations on a daily bases, DVTs and PEs are part of my daily pt. management. Also I consulted two physicians on the article before I posted my reply. Syncopy from hanging for six minutes is just not medicaly sound. Perhaps if you were haning with a rope around your neck. I am not arguing, simply stating the facts from a medical stand point. You sir, take it for what I intended; that being to inform you of the facts so you know full understanding so people do not go around speaking of information that is not 100% factual.
take care
geezer
I believe we are all in agreement when the whole point of the article is to remind us to just becareful. Thanks all for caring........
Actually alot of guys passed out in the Army when we were standing in formation... they would lock there knees instead of keeping the slight bend in them, and wham!!! down they go... it was kinda funnyAs for passing out from standing! I would have a hard time believing that, cuz I've had the seat rip out of my treestand and I stood on stand for hours.
I have a Summit Viper stand that came with a safety harmess, rope, prussic hitch, strap and a safety video. Many of the better harness manafactured today have loops near the waist line for a lineman's belt. In the safety video it is recommended that a suspended person take the supplied strap and tie it to both of the loops so that the strap is hitting at the shins. Then the suspended person should step on the strap to relieve the pressure in the legs and allowing better blood flow. I always keep my cell phone and strap in my front pants pocket just in case this ever happens. I also always give someone the general area I plan on hunting and an approximate time of return. Hope this helps. Always be safe first.
Good luck and have fun.
Good luck and have fun.
this is no BS there is med information and i teach it in hunters ed. if you really needed to get down quick and arent able to put in steps for whatever reason id hang a rope ladder and rol it up then tie it up with a clet release knot that way all ya got to do is pull on a rope/string and theres your way down. some one told me this i forget who but i remenber him being a larger man and maybe he could climb back in the stand so this mite have been easyer for him i dont know.
if this helps any one great... if not oh well
ive never tryed this but it sound like it mite work so give it a try if you like.
be safe
and good luck
Tom
if this helps any one great... if not oh well
ive never tryed this but it sound like it mite work so give it a try if you like.
be safe
and good luck
Tom
this is a good idea and inportant tooalways keep my cell phone and strap in my front pants pocket just in case this ever happens. I also always give someone the general area I plan on hunting and an approximate time of return. Hope this helps. Always be safe first.
Good luck and have fun.
Tom
I keep a knife within reach just in case it would be better to fall then die.
1 - 20 of 117 Posts
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