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Public Land Deer Regulations

5K views 21 replies 11 participants last post by  R. Toker 
#1 ·
I sent an e mail yesterday to Clint McCoy a deer biologist with the Ohio dnr whom I had met and talked with at the deer and turkey expo last year. I asked about the lack of discussion of public lands at the recent summits. I shared my concerns regarding lower population levels and asked if anything was in the works with regard to any changes on public land deer regs.

To his credit he was quick to respond. He shared the summit presentation was a "much broader view of the deer management program". Such as DMU's and unit specific antlerless allocations. Also the new population goal setting process. He stated that at one of the sessions one person did bring up public land during the open discussions.

He suggested that the changes in tags and elimination of the antlerless tags made for this past season may help somewhat.

He stated that this is a topic on two current surveys. The results are not all in as yet. He stated "In the past there was not enough support for regulation changes on public land". "As are many things in the deer management process, public land regulations are largely a function of the desires of the hunters themselves".The results of the surveys are expected to be in the 2015-2116 Deer Season Summary that comes out this summer.

He stated that at this point when/if regulations were to be changed it might only be for division of wildlife owned public land (wildlife areas) as it is "unclear at this point if we could/would be able to enforce different hunting regulations on public land that we do not own for example Wayne National Forest and state parks and forests".

As many on this site know I have strong opinions on the topic and replied to Clint regarding these but wondered what others thought about what he had to share. It is eye opening on several levels for me.

I am interested in what folks think about the info Clint shared and the idea of different regulations for public lands.

I want to add as well that I appreciated him taking the time for him to respond directly to my note. I agreed to look for him at the DNR booth at this years expo. He pointed out that as a biologist all he can do is make recommendations to his administrators. He ended his response with "the jury is still out". I urge anyone on here that has concerns regarding public land deer regs. to reach out to the dnr and make your voice heard.
 
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#2 ·
mr. bluedog, who is really quite satisfied with his deer hunting, had an observation after we went to the deer summit last weekend. He said their presentation was interesting because it explained why they do some of the things they do. Things that he was wondering about before hand and then made perfect sense once the data that the DOW has shared. He looks at a lot of things from a biology standpoint since his Bachelor's degree is in wildlife management.

I do not hunt public land (except a trip or two for rabbits or squirrels per year), but I 100% percent support my fellow hunters who would like to see public land regulations changed. But sometimes when I am asked on a survey what I think, I feel a bit odd about answering since I don't hunt it.

Anyway, not too much of that babbling had anything to do with your question UncleMike. I absolutely believe that there has not been hunter support for changes up until this point. But I hope the DOW continues to ask hunters about changes because over time, experiences change and opinions change. If you had asked me three years ago if I was going to enter into a deer season with the goal of buck only and passing does, I would have said you were crazy. Three years ago the deer were mowing down our produce field right and left. We are not deer deficient right now but the population is down and the neighbors still hunt. A lot. So what I'm getting at is that a public land hunter that was asked about a regulation change in 2013 might have a totally different opinion in 2016. I hope they keep asking the question.
 
#3 ·
I will make it a point to send an email or two since I didn't receive a survey, and to this day never have have received one. I hunt about 90 percent public land and have since 2005 for deer. Small game and pheasant since about 2000. My observations for public land have been this. Pressure on public land deer seems to be at its highest point since I have started pursuing deer on public ground. Archery season pressure is up significantly and gun season seems about the same. DIY style non resident hunters seem to be at a peak and those hunters seem to be willing to hunt very hard seeing as they spent a good penny to travel here to hunt. The last few years I see about 1/3 of the number of deer I saw in my best year (2011) on public ground. In 2011 the rut was very intense (in the area I was hunting). The private property I hunted that year I also saw a very good second rut. I saw the two biggest public bucks I've seen in my life in the same spot days apart, and unfortunately made a bad shot leading to an unrecovered deer. Doe numbers were strong that year but the overall ratio seemed very good. Plenty of big mature does. Around that time bag limits became a joke. Anterless tags galore.. I haven't seen a "rut" on public land since. I haven't released an arrow at a buck since that one in 2011. Seen some small ones and one decent 8 pt since then. I think we can say for sure the herd numbers have been greatly reduced in most public areas but without any hard evidence like a infrared camera flyover survey it's impossible to tell. I personally believe the pressure leads to poor hunting pushing deer off public or causing nocturnal movement. My main area this year was the worst for deer sign I've ever seen there. Literally almost no scat and I think 1 tiny rub in hundreds of acres. No scrapes either. I harvested a deer from that area during gun season like I have the past few years and just like every other deer from this area I killed it by using others pressure to put the deer within range. I haven't killed a single deer from this area that was on a normal pattern. I know the increase in archery pressure is leading to more dead deer as well as gun season and this year extended gun but how much who knows. I would like to see some research on herd densities from flyovers. Without hard numbers like that it's hard to know how bad the problem is. If we can get some hard data then we can decide how drastic of regulation changes need to happen. I for one would like to see bag limits go to one per county off public and the 2nd must be harvested from another area from a county not touching the first. Non resident tags have to be limited as well to what they were when everything was "ok". Not saying non resident were the problem at all more so the bag limits and anterless tags. But the steep climb in non res tag sales was definitely noticed in all areas I hunt. I see probably 1 resident to 4 non residents in November. Long winded answer but thought I would go into detail seeing as I know you are truly passionate about the issue. I guess my biggest issue is the states lack of addressing know concerns. They're getting complaints we know so get their planes in the air and start studying herd numbers instead of guessing!!
 
#4 ·
Interestingly enough, at the deer summit they had some data from some aerial surveys they did. Not over public land specifically. I've seen aerial data like this before in the past. The most current survey was done over Holmes county to get some data for the CWD area. I don't know this for a fact but my impression was it was done last winter. They actually had township by township data. It was an interesting part of the presentation. They also had data from another county that they did to compare modeling data. Again it was very interesting. I think they have a better handle on things than they get credit for.
 
#5 ·
If they have the equipment why not use it more and share the info with the public? I would love to see densities on some of our bigger pieces of public land. Zaleski, tar hollow, Shawnee etc.. Compare densities to surrounding private property to look for distribution issues for possible regulation change needs.
 
#6 ·
I'm a non resident hunter. I've hunted Ohio for 5 years..I do think numbers are lower now than they were 5 years ago. From what I can tell from hunting Ohio for 5 years, is that each year is very very different. This year deer sightings were slim, but I do feel without acorns where I hunted that the deer were mainly on private property around the fields. The years with a good acorn crop, I see good deer numbers. They backed off the antlerless tags this year, the early muzzy hunt in Oct. has been done away with, I expect to see numbers rise again shortly.
 
#8 ·
Public land is a HUGE hot button issue with me. I see thousands of acres of park land that is not open to hunting. It isn't all owned by ODOW so they hold their hands up and say, "nothing we can do." I disagree. How about collaborating on projects that would enable more access for hunters. I think they feel it isn't their deal so they blow it off. This infuriates me! Department of State Parks and Department of Wildlife are both under the umbrella of ODNR. Stop acting like it's a big hassle to talk to someone in another dept!

Access to deer is one of the ODOW biggest problems. Yet, rather than solve for it. They enact regulations that exacerbate the problem. I can only find limited logic for this behavior. None of it is rooted in wildlife conservation or management.
 
#9 · (Edited)
Public land is a HUGE hot button issue with me. I see thousands of acres of park land that is not open to hunting. It isn't all owned by ODOW so they hold their hands up and say, "nothing we can do." I disagree. How about collaborating on projects that would enable more access for hunters. I think they feel it isn't their deal so they blow it off. This infuriates me! Department of State Parks and Department of Wildlife are both under the umbrella of ODNR. Stop acting like it's a big hassle to talk to someone in another dept!

Access to deer is one of the ODOW biggest problems. Yet, rather than solve for it. They enact regulations that exacerbate the problem. I can only find limited logic for this behavior. None of it is rooted in wildlife conservation or management.
The fact that this post above was written scares me. This shows complete ignorance. You don't think that at some point in the past 100 years or so that both parks and wildlife have been in existence that the idea of hunting parks hasn't been discussed?? Of course it has!! This is why we do have public hunting in some parks in designated areas. The reason we can't hunt in all parks has nothing to do with either division but rather the public who pay tax dollars to own the parks and what they want. 500,000 Ohioans (roughly) hunt which leaves about 11,500,000 who don't but yet everyone pays for these parks. What do you think happens when the vast majority that foots the bill doesn't favor something?

You clearly need to speak to someone in the odnr with first hand knowledge of these types of topics before making such ignorant statements. I'd love to see what the head honcho in parks has to say to this one.
 
#13 ·
IMO Before a crusade is made to open public ground up for up for deer hunting, I believe some reform on public land hunting is needed.

I was hopeful the DOW would possibly propose some public land regs this year...but I guess all their time was taken up moving the bonus gun season up 2 days.
 
#15 ·
I'm not sure I follow, but I guess you can have the opinion you have and il keep mine. But seriously, if you feel the way you do, do something about it! I'm not saying you're wrong, I just think you are placing blame for the problem you've identified in the wrong place. The landowner or steward has to want hunting or the DOW has zero traction to get the land open for hunting whether there's a conversation or not. This is just like specific public land regulations, nothing will change unless those who care keep trying. Put organized pressure in the right places and it can change. Case & point; the recent turkey regulation change in NE ohio.
 
#18 ·
Can anyone explain what is correct when it comes to summer trail cameras and mineral licks on public land? Is it unlawful for me to dump out a gallon of "Buck Jam" on public land in mid July just to take inventory on the bucks in the area? I am not interested in hunting of bait in any form just for scouting purposes in the summer months. According to the Ohio DNR website it explains that you cannot place anything on public land that will "attract wild birds". Surely some buck jam wouldn't attract birds or any form of these minerals. I tried calling the OHIO DNR. I called twice last year because I was accidently cut off the first time. One person tried explaining that it was ok and ironically another person said they didn't think it was allowed but they were not sure?!. So I just didn't use any last year to be safe. Can anyone set the record straight?
 
#19 ·
This was a glitch in how the reg was written for a couple of years. If you check it now reads clearly that no mineral or bait of any type may be placed on public lands. This was just corrected in last years updated regulations. See on line with regulations for public lands.
 
#22 ·
So let me get this straight. There are those of you who think the phone in checking process has led to a massive amount of untagged deer because people are basically scoundrels. However, we should have a different set of rules for public land such as bag limits and expect people to follow them? Seems legit.
 
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