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:whistle: Happens every time....

Colo. shootings spark gun control debate

The Colorado movie theater shootings sparked gun control debate Monday among northeast Ohioans in the gun business.

Mike Dawson, owner of Five Star Firearms in Seven Hills, only sells high capacity magazines and drums to law enforcement. While accused Colorado shooter James Holmes purchased his firearms legally, Dawson believed online gun sites and illegal gun purchases are putting firearms in the wrong hands.

Dawson said he believe gun control is not the answer and that, with the crime rate rising, people need to be able to defend themselves.

"Out of all the people in that movie theater, not one person was armed kind of surprises me," said Dawson. "They don't need more laws on hand guns or guns, period. What they need to do is have a strict enforcement of the gun laws that they have on the books today."

Kim Rodecker, owner and firearms instructor at Concealed Carry Courses in Cleveland, agreed on legislation not being the answer.

"You're never going to be able to stop a madman by legislation," said Rodecker.

Kim said the theater shooting, while tragic, could have been ended sooner by someone taking charge.

"As soon as they saw that man come in and start killing innocent people, innocent children, women and men, there could have been one person with his own firearm who could have ended it," said Rodecker.


Dawson said someone had to have known that Holmes was stockpiling firearms and could have tipped somebody off. The fact that didn't happen did not change his stance that gun control is not the answer.

"There's millions of guns out there and it would take 200 years to even think about stopping firearms," said Dawson.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/48294271/ns/local_news-cleveland_oh/
 

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Had to expect these type of arguments. But really the guy could have done the same with Sarin gas or whatever your imagination can come up with. Didn't have to be guns.
 

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He could have just as easily thrown a gasoline bomb instead of TG. That type of device would have killed everyone in the place. You can't regulate your way to a safe world.

RGJZ06
 

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It'll be interesting to see if any of the victims were ccw licensees that had to leave their weapon at home or in the car because the theater's policy. Might lead to a precident setting lawsuit. If a business doesn't allow you to carry they assume greater responsibility for the safety of their customers.
 

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Have you guys ever met some law enforcement types that seem to have a few screws loose? The term "law enforcement" includes more than police officers.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
It'll be interesting to see if any of the victims were ccw licensees that had to leave their weapon at home or in the car because the theater's policy. Might lead to a precident setting lawsuit. If a business doesn't allow you to carry they assume greater responsibility for the safety of their customers.
Exactly what I thought when it happened-my wife was with me when we heard about it and the 1st question out of my mouth was if a CCW person was there, and whether they were allowed to carry their gun into the theatre. As I got more information, it sounded like no one had one-which leads me to believe they were not allowed.

Hard to imagine a few hundred people there and no one was carrying concealed if they were allowed to carry into the theatre.
 

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Exactly what I thought when it happened-my wife was with me when we heard about it and the 1st question out of my mouth was if a CCW person was there, and whether they were allowed to carry their gun into the theatre. As I got more information, it sounded like no one had one-which leads me to believe they were not allowed.

Hard to imagine a few hundred people there and no one was carrying concealed if they were allowed to carry into the theatre.
Can't verify it, but I did hear on the radio that that cinema's policy was "No guns on premesis". That would or could explain why no one was carrying.
 

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Can't verify it, but I did hear on the radio that that cinema's policy was "No guns on premesis". That would or could explain why no one was carrying.
Not really. Some folks with CCW licenses can't see those little signs.
FYI The guy who taught my CCW class (a police officer) said its a good idea to ignore those little signs. Here's a perfect example why.

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Not really. Some folks with CCW licenses can't see those little signs.
FYI The guy who taught my CCW class (a police officer) said its a good idea to ignore those little signs. Here's a perfect example why.

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You mean 'accidently' not notice them?

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Not really. Some folks with CCW licenses can't see those little signs.
FYI The guy who taught my CCW class (a police officer) said its a good idea to ignore those little signs. Here's a perfect example why.

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Hopefully your not serious and stirring the pot:whistle:

Here's a perfect example of why- this would cause an issue and it being a VERY BAD idea. If CCW holders are to be looked at professionally- they need to abide by the law. Any deviation from that in a major incident like the theatre shootings- will cause undue media attention to the already larger issue of people walking around with guns that are concealed.

With all the in-roads that many have made for the use of CCW-this will blow it apart in one illegal incident. Law abiding CCW and gun owners, don't need to lower themsleves to the level of the criminal-
 

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I think its a shame that so many businesses are against a law abiding citizen, who has went through the necessary training, to legally carry their gun. The way things are in our world today you never know when or where something like this is going to happen. One person legally carrying a firearm could have made a HUGE difference in this tragedy.
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After reading about the booby traps and how this orange haired monster came in the theatre first and propped the door open. First why did not some theatre employee think somebody was trying to sneak people in for free? Secondly, I think the murderer would have dropped a load in his pants the minute he thought somebody was shooting back at him and consequently quit shooting and run out the door.

as for the no gun signs, the owner, proprietor, manager should assume all liablity for not guaranteeing NO GUNS on the premises. one of two costly lawsuits and the signs would disappear. Somebody should have noticed the door propped open.
 

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After reading about the booby traps and how this orange haired monster came in the theatre first and propped the door open. First why did not some theatre employee think somebody was trying to sneak people in for free? Secondly, I think the murderer would have dropped a load in his pants the minute he thought somebody was shooting back at him and consequently quit shooting and run out the door.

as for the no gun signs, the owner, proprietor, manager should assume all liablity for not guaranteeing NO GUNS on the premises. one of two costly lawsuits and the signs would disappear. Somebody should have noticed the door propped open.
Exactly-the big chicken with the gun would have crapped his pants 1st and then after he was hit, tried to cry his way out of there-if he still could walk.

Here's what society is dealing with-

 

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As an archer only, I'm trying to stay out of this "gun" conversation, but I think the argument is the same regardless of the weapon of choice.

Again, this could be my narrow view on the topic (and I'm sorry if I rub someone the wrong way on this), but why does anyone need an ASSUALT weapon? If you can't hunt with it, you shouldn't be able to buy it over the counter! And if you're a firearm collector, you should only be able to buy one that has the firing pin removed. Just my opinion.
Now, that said, if you need more than 3 shells (Ohio hunting limit on shells in your shotgun!) to kill a deer, you need target practice, not a bigger clip. Why can anyone other than an active duty police or military buy a clip larger than 3?

More questions than answers from me, but as a responsible citizen that enjoys hunting, I fail to see how gun control laws will help unless the capacity of the guns themselves are changed.
 

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As an archer only, I'm trying to stay out of this "gun" conversation, but I think the argument is the same regardless of the weapon of choice.

Again, this could be my narrow view on the topic (and I'm sorry if I rub someone the wrong way on this), but why does anyone need an ASSUALT weapon? If you can't hunt with it, you shouldn't be able to buy it over the counter! And if you're a firearm collector, you should only be able to buy one that has the firing pin removed. Just my opinion.
Now, that said, if you need more than 3 shells (Ohio hunting limit on shells in your shotgun!) to kill a deer, you need target practice, not a bigger clip. Why can anyone other than an active duty police or military buy a clip larger than 3?

More questions than answers from me, but as a responsible citizen that enjoys hunting, I fail to see how gun control laws will help unless the capacity of the guns themselves are changed.
Do you even know enough about firearms to be taken seriously in this conversation?Define assault weapon?Your definition,not the fearstream liberal media's definition.... To me a Assault weapon is FULLY AUTOMATIC weapon(google that if you need too)....

So I only get 3 rounds to defend my family with?Is that what your saying?Will the criminals follow these rules as well?Every weapon used in the incident can be used for hunting,and the 2 long guns are 2 of the most popular hunting implements Currently in use
 

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=BowHuntingInOhio;594238]As an archer only, I'm trying to stay out of this "gun" conversation, but I think the argument is the same regardless of the weapon of choice.

Again, this could be my narrow view on the topic (and I'm sorry if I rub someone the wrong way on this), but why does anyone need an ASSUALT weapon? If you can't hunt with it, you shouldn't be able to buy it over the counter! And if you're a firearm collector, you should only be able to buy one that has the firing pin removed. Just my opinion.Now, that said, if you need more than 3 shells (Ohio hunting limit on shells in your shotgun!) to kill a deer, you need target practice, not a bigger clip. Why can anyone other than an active duty police or military buy a clip larger than 3?

More questions than answers from me, but as a responsible citizen that enjoys hunting, I fail to see how gun control laws will help unless the capacity of the guns themselves are changed.
and their good questions-

Military-style semi-automatic firearms (so-called assault weapons) do not differ materially from non-military style semi-automatic firearms (one bullet is fired for each pull of the trigger) and are no more powerful than other semi-automatic weapons. Further, a bullet fired from a semi-automatic weapon is no more powerful than one of the same caliber fired from a corresponding non-semi-automatic handgun, rifle, or shotgun. In fact most assault weapons are less powerful than hunting rifles. For example, the AR-15 (a semi-automatic version of the U.S. military's rifle, M-16), is a .223 caliber rifle. Rifles of this caliber, when used for hunting, are generally used on small game rather than deer. A smaller caliber bullet is more likely to wound the animal (and allow it to escape and suffer a slow death) than the more powerful .24 to .30 caliber bullets normally used in deer hunting rifles.

Assault weapons are not the weapons of choice among drug dealers, gang members or criminals in general. Assault weapons are used in about one-fifth of one percent (.20%) of all violent crimes and about one percent in gun crimes. It is estimated that from one to seven percent of all homicides are committed with assault weapons (rifles of any type are involved in three to four percent of all homicides). However a higher percentage are used in police homicides, roughly ten percent. (There has been no consistent trend in this rate from 1978 through 1996.) Between 1992 and 1996 less than 4% of mass murders, committed with guns, involved assault weapons. (Our deadliest mass murders have either involved arson or bombs.)

There are close to 4 million assault weapons in the U.S., which amounts to roughly 1.7% of the total gun stock.

If assault weapons are so rarely used in crime, why all the hoopla when certain military-style-semi-automatic weapons were banned by the Crime Control Act of 1994? A Washington Post editorial (September 15, 1994) summed it up best:

"No one should have any illusions about what was accomplished (by the ban). Assault weapons play a part in only a small percentage of crime. The provision is mainly symbolic; its virtue will be if it turns out to be, as hoped, a stepping stone to broader gun control. "

In resposne to more gun laws- gun laws are followed by responsible citizens who own firearms. Criminals don't follow any laws whatsoever,and guns aquired by criminals are thru illegal means and the black market. More gun laws will not prevent criminals from acquiring firearms, and in the end with more laws, more law abiding citizens will have less firearms accessible to them allowing the criminal to have the advantage.

You also have the "mentally disturbed" percentage of the population that finally goes off the deep end, eventually, and they acquire a gun-legally- and go on a spree with no previous criminal history- that we will never control.

Bottom line- get the criminal off the street. Owning a gun legally is NOT the problem.
 

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As an archer only, I'm trying to stay out of this "gun" conversation, but I think the argument is the same regardless of the weapon of choice.

Again, this could be my narrow view on the topic (and I'm sorry if I rub someone the wrong way on this), but why does anyone need an ASSUALT weapon? If you can't hunt with it, you shouldn't be able to buy it over the counter! And if you're a firearm collector, you should only be able to buy one that has the firing pin removed. Just my opinion.
Now, that said, if you need more than 3 shells (Ohio hunting limit on shells in your shotgun!) to kill a deer, you need target practice, not a bigger clip. Why can anyone other than an active duty police or military buy a clip larger than 3?

More questions than answers from me, but as a responsible citizen that enjoys hunting, I fail to see how gun control laws will help unless the capacity of the guns themselves are changed.
Not rubbed the wrong way...

First of all.....define assault weapon? Is a pitchfork or a hammer an assault weapon? Would you agree that it is unfair to label something an assault weapon if it hasn't been used in an assault? After all, isnt that why people who own pitbull's are up in arms?

Second, have you read the second ammendment? It doesnt say that right to bear arms is neccessary to secure food for the dinner table. It is necessary to maintain a well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state. In other words, the right to keep and bear arms is necessary to defend ourselves from enemies, both foreign and domestic. This right shall not be infringed. There is not a list of firearms under the second ammendment that are not included, they are all included. We have he right to keep and bear arms of all sorts, both high cap and low cap, because the security of our state and freedom does not rest on three shells. The right is guaranteed that we may defend ourselves from a tyrranus government, or the invasion from another. Tell me - would you go to battle with three shells?

Third, where do you get the word "need" from? It's not about what we need or don't need...it's about whether we have the right. And we do have the right, and if the word "need" should be used, we need the right. I believe you should understand by now why I say we need the right.

Capacity does not need to be changed, or altered, or legislated. Education and responsibility does.

Why do you want the military or the police to be the only ones with the firepower? Did you see what happened in New Orleans? Germany? Armenia?

Minimal legislature leads to heavy enforcement.

I would imagine, that by reading your post, you would be a supporter of the NATO Small Arms Treaty?
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Here is some more to think about for everyone-you think people are coming to the realization that they need to understand and learn more about firearms?

Background check applications for gun buys surge in Colorado

DENVER (Reuters) - The number of people in Colorado applying for background checks to purchase firearms has surged in the aftermath of the movie theater shootings in Aurora, law enforcement officials said on Tuesday.

In the three days after the rampage, 2,887 people were approved for gun buys, compared with 2,012 the weekend before, a 43.5 percent increase, according to data supplied by the Colorado Bureau of Investigation.

The bureau has an online background check system that tracks and processes gun permit applications. The system does not show how many guns were actually sold.

A gunman clad in tactical body armor and a gas mask and carrying three guns opened fire at a midnight showing of the new "Batman" film early on Friday, killing 12 people and wounding 58 others.

Suspect James Eagan Holmes, 24, was arrested minutes later behind the theater and made an initial court appearance on Monday.

Brandon Baker, owner of Rocky Mountain Guns & Ammo in Parker, Colorado, about 15 miles from Aurora, said business had been brisk since the shooting.

"Our gun sales have gone up, but we've had more requests for training," said Baker, a certified firearms instructor. "I'm booked up for the next 2 1/2 months."

Most of the people seeking firearms or training had been women, Baker said, adding his training included "situational awareness" in addition to firearms proficiency.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/48310795/
 
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