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Discussion Starter #1
Gag orders on doctors in multiple states concerning fracking chemicals.
IF the process is so damned safe then why would there be a need to do this.
Fisrt responders,workers or anyone else exposed to the chemicals will be at risk because they may not be told of the dangers.
Sounds to me like there's alot of trouble on the horizon!

http://ecowatch.org/2012/ohio-senate-wants-to-gag-doctors-to-protect-fracking-industrys-bottom-line/

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/23/pennsylvania-doctors-fracking-chemicals_n_1375025.html
 

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ecowatch and the Huffington post........definitely two of our most reliable news sources.
Can you provide the exact legislation and where this "gag" order is?
 

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ecowatch and the Huffington post........definitely two of our most reliable news sources.
Can you provide the exact legislation and where this "gag" order is?
Its all over the internet - google it up - dang :mischeif: Senate Bill 315
 

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Its all over the internet - google it up - dang :mischeif: Senate Bill 315
OK I did, here's what I found....... KEY PROVISIONS RELATED TO HORIZONTAL FRACTURING IN OHIO

Senate Bill 315 makes the following key regulatory changes to the horizontal drilling process in Ohio:

SB 315 puts in place the nation's first well construction and hydraulic fracturing chemical disclosure requirement.. The bill requires chemical disclosure during all aspects of the initial drill (open-hole) process and during hydraulic fracturing, while adhering to existing federal and state trade secret laws. Companies are required to keep records of all chemicals placed in a well for any two-year period. At any time, ODNR can obtain that information to conduct an investigation or in response to a spill or a chemical release.

Additionally, the public will have the ability to view hydraulic fracturing fluid compositions used at specific wells on www.fracfocus.org. ODNR is in the process of developing a searchable database where the public can view the chemicals used in Ohio.
Requires the sharing of all chemical information with doctors. Medical professionals may share even proprietary information with the patient and other medical professionals directly involved in treating the patient. The medical professionals may also submit any reports required by law or professional ethical standards, including public health agencies and other appropriate government bodies.
Allows appeals to the Ohio Oil and Gas Commission for mandatory pooling, unitization and establishing of an exception tract permit issuance. Other drilling permits are issued administratively once all statutory requirements are met by applicants. These permits may be challenged in court. This provision does not repeal or eliminate any existing legal authority to appeal permits.
Establishes mandatory daily fines for well operators who violate the law. Daily fines will be as high as $20,000 depending on the type and severity of the violation.
Requires the well operator to take pre-drilling well water samples within 1,500 feet of a proposed horizontal well and disclose the results in their permit application. SB 315 expands testing requirements to 1,500 feet and applies this standard to both urban and rural areas. Previously, water wells were tested within 300 feet of oil and gas wells in urban areas. Water wells in rural areas were not tested.
Requires well operators to disclose the proposed source of water used in the well drilling and completion process. When applying for a permit, operators are required to include the rate, volume and source of water that will be used for production operations. ODNR's Division of Soil and Water will evaluate these permits to protect against negative impacts to water sources.
Encourages well operators to enter into a Road Use Maintenance Agreement (RUMA) with local government. A RUMA is an agreement between local government and well operators placing responsibility for road construction and repairs on those well operators. The agreement also stipulates designated travel routes for heavy equipment haulers to ensure safety and minimize impact. SB 315 requires ODNR and ODOT work with local officials to review and report on the effectiveness of the RUMA process.
Draws upon the expertise of all state agencies. ODNR now has the ability to call upon experts from other state agencies to seek regulatory guidance on issues related to drilling.
Increases liability insurance for horizontal wells. This provision increases liability insurance requirements by five times in rural areas and nearly doubles the requirement in urban areas.

Underground Injection Control (UIC) Program

The brine solution that is safely disposed of through injection back into brine-bearing or depleted oil and gas formations deep below the surface is performed under proper regulation by ODNR and guidelines created by the United States Environmental Protection Agency (USEPA). The USEPA sets class distinctions for different types of injection wells used nationwide.

How is that being translated into a gag order????????
 

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Gag Order'
The bill allows companies to shield chemicals as trade secrets, allows them to delay disclosure for 60 days after a well has been drilled, and places a "gag order" on doctors against disclosing information about chemicals that may have affected patients, said Thom Cmar, an attorney for the Natural Resources Defense Council in Chicago.

http://www.businessweek.com/news/2012-05-23/ohio-considers-rules-that-opponents-say-favor-frackers

I hope that this source credible enough.
Like I said,the same was done In Pennsylvania and it surely doesn't seem as if they are very worried about peoples health.IF these fracking fluids are used industry wide then what secrets are they worried about????
ANY and all fliuds or hazardous materials,chemicals,etc. used in the process should be know in the event of an emergency.The affected patient and the emergency workers should know what they have potentially been exposed to.
 

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Jeffmo your comments are from an attorney who works for the National Resources Defense Council in Chicago! It is his interpretation of the bill. Mine came from our ODNR, I'll stick with their version:D

If you go to the website listed on the ODNR site www.fracfocus.org you can check out what was used to frac each well, can't see where they are hiding anything.
 

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Bawana,the site: www.fracfocus.org, on the ODNR page that you want to "stick with" states that companies volunteer their participation!

"A training webinar for companies wishing to report chemicals to the FracFocus disclosure submission system is now available."

I haven't yet been able to find out if companies here in Ohio are required or not.But I think the real question,and I'd like to hear some opinions,is WHY do you suppose companies lobbied to have this "gag order" inclusion written into the laws of various states where fracking is occurring?

the problem is that a patient won't know what they were exposed to.Doctors will know but they can't pass the information along to the patient.Seems to me simply as a way the politicians have protected the businesses from the potential for lawsuits.
If someone has health problems on down the road but they can't even say what they were exposed to that would make it difficult to hold someone responsible wouldn't it?

http://www.lcountyfracking.org/archives/401

"The Senate bill handicaps the public's safety by imposing a gag order on medical professionals. If a patient has been affected by the fracking process, drillers will be required to disclose their trade secret chemicals to the physician, but the bill explicitly forbids the physician from disclosing the chemicals to the public, beyond what is necessary to diagnose or treat the patient. The patient will never know what made them sick and worse, others living nearby-including those who may use the same water source-will not be warned about what chemicals they could be exposed to.
The Senate also removed a provision from the original bill that would require well owners to disclose chemical information to emergency responders upon request. If some emergency were to arise at a fracking well, and officials had to know which chemicals were active on the site in order to restore safety, the drillers now have no legal obligation to tell them."

http://www.freedomsphoenix.com/News...doctors-a-gag-order-on-fracking-chemicals.htm

"Under a new law, doctors in Pennsylvania can access information about chemicals used in natural gas extraction-but they won't be able to share it with their patients. A provision buried in a law passed last month is drawing scrutiny from the public health and environmental community, who argue that it will "gag" doctors who want to raise concerns related to oil and gas extraction with the people they treat and the general public."
 

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Discussion Starter #10
And,Material Safety Data Sheets contain information about the characteristics and actual or potential hazards of a substance. Generally, an MSDS for a material is not primarily intended for use by the general consumer but is designed for hazard identification for working with the material in an occupational setting.
So the public,emergency workers or anyone else exposed accidentally would be where the problem lies with the "gag order".
 

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course those that will gain monetarily will say all is ok and its safe,and we know everythang they tell us will be true,just as it is with those that oppose it...we believe their experts...when it comes to messing with mother earth for greed,we better see what they did in the past...before every stream is ruined...i just hope it ends with no problems,i guess our great grandchildren will find that out...:(:nono:
 

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Like I've said before, this pretty much covers what they will do, you can go to the site and pull up any well in Ohio at this time. Seems pretty clear the Doctors will have and be able to share the info.
Additionally, the public will have the ability to view hydraulic fracturing fluid compositions used at specific wells on www.fracfocus.org. ODNR is in the process of developing a searchable database where the public can view the chemicals used in Ohio.
Requires the sharing of all chemical information with doctors. Medical professionals may share even proprietary information with the patient and other medical professionals directly involved in treating the patient. The medical professionals may also submit any reports required by law or professional ethical standards, including public health agencies and other appropriate government bodies.
 

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I think the part you're missing is that doctors will be prevented from telling patients.

But,it certainly appears that companies don't have to participate on the www.fracfocus.org site!
"A training webinar for companies WISHING TO REPORT chemicals to the FracFocus disclosure submission system is now available."

But,Why did the lawmakers in Columbus(and other states)beleive it was necessary to include the gag order???
 

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What part of this are you not understanding?
Requires the sharing of all chemical information with doctors. Medical professionals may share even proprietary information with the patient and other medical professionals directly involved in treating the patient. The medical professionals may also submit any reports required by law or professional ethical standards, including public health agencies and other appropriate government bodies.
 

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What part of the fracking process are you not understanding is bad for everyone in Ohio?


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What part of the fracking process are you not understanding is bad for everyone in Ohio?

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And do you have any factual truth to back up your generalization.
 

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And do you have any factual truth to back up your generalization.
Not really sure how anyone would think fracking is a good idea (unless you're getting paid. Reckon most everyone has a price, some higher than others).
I don't have the time nor the desire to go tit for tat with you. Feel free to do your own research.

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Discussion Starter #18
Personally,i can't see the need especially IF the process is as safe as some say it is.This article doesn't especially spell out the changes.but,when Doctors as a whole have a problem with not being allowed to imform potential patients,there sure seems to be a problem.
Doubt it if you want,call this process safe and great for the economy but i personally see some dirty politics in action here.

http://www.statenews.org/
 

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What part of the fracking process are you not understanding is bad for everyone in Ohio?
I haven't seen any real evidence of widespread problems with the hydraulic fracturing process. They have been doing it around here my entire life. I have talked to many people in PA that have experienced no problems with the Marcellus wells. Have yet to personally meet a person that has had a real problem.

Most of the anti-"fracking" propaganda comes from people that are jealous that others are benefiting from the new found reserves. Locally the anti-frackers are tied to the Occupy movement. Some were arrested for pulling the fire alarms at a lease signing event. They would rather give money to Arabs then their neighbors. Many would rather people collect welfare then have real jobs. Envy really is a sad condition, probably why coveting was list in the 10 Commandments.

I drove through Carroll county a couple of times in the past couple of weeks. The change is astounding, so much of it looks nicer, less run down. New and renovated buildings, a new fire station with 2 new firetrucks, new businesses, roads paved. Drove past a couple of pads, couldn't see much from the road but what I saw looked like they were trying to minimize impact.

2 wells have been drilled close to where I do much of my hunting in Columbiana county. Several more are in the beginning process on properties belonging to good friends. So far none have had real issues with the way any of the contractors have conducted themselves.

As things progress I find it harder and harder to find local people opposed to what's going on.
 

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I haven't seen any real evidence of widespread problems with the hydraulic fracturing process. They have been doing it around here my entire life. I have talked to many people in PA that have experienced no problems with the Marcellus wells. Have yet to personally meet a person that has had a real problem.

Most of the anti-"fracking" propaganda comes from people that are jealous that others are benefiting from the new found reserves. Locally the anti-frackers are tied to the Occupy movement. Some were arrested for pulling the fire alarms at a lease signing event. They would rather give money to Arabs then their neighbors. Many would rather people collect welfare then have real jobs. Envy really is a sad condition, probably why coveting was list in the 10 Commandments.

I drove through Carroll county a couple of times in the past couple of weeks. The change is astounding, so much of it looks nicer, less run down. New and renovated buildings, a new fire station with 2 new firetrucks, new businesses, roads paved. Drove past a couple of pads, couldn't see much from the road but what I saw looked like they were trying to minimize impact.

2 wells have been drilled close to where I do much of my hunting in Columbiana county. Several more are in the beginning process on properties belonging to good friends. So far none have had real issues with the way any of the contractors have conducted themselves.

As things progress I find it harder and harder to find local people opposed to what's going on.
Like I said, everyone's got a price.
A simple google search will result in the telling of the dangers of fracking. Just because you don't agree or dont know and see the money being thrown to folks doesn't make the evidence "propaganda".

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