[thornton]

I thoroughly enjoyed reading your post...

Well, thanks but game organization success is often tied to location, along with the particular birds under their banner.
PF, for example, does good work....Ohio tho simply does not have the blessings of other states re pheasants and those blessings can not be created in a measure large enough to matter much beyond a project level today. Bobwhite Quail, even less so.
To my knowledge, PF has also never had the negative leadership issue of QU or the NWTF tho....nor has it had the disgusting big donor protection seen under DU.
PF is an ok place to put membership money and, simply ignore the banquet scene if that holds no interest.....imho.

Changing farming practices would be a tough gig....like going back to the old corn rows of a one-horse width.
I hunted such in Iowa last season and, it was swell but....requires machinery and attitudes much less common than normally found today.
I really can't blame PF for an inability to drastically affect corporate farming or any farmer's own need to maximize profit for their family....PF simply does a pretty darn good job in pheasant country with their plan.
Federal regulations are also out of a game organizations control and likely would be a waste of member money, comparably.
But, could they all lend their voice....better...to predator control, chemical issues, water pollution concerns and wildlife existing as a member of the community?
Sure....just like we need an Aldo Leopold ability to effectively view the changing world afield.

The problems which critters, game organizations and we face are difficult ones and complicated....build it and they will come is a false hope for every critter and, too often, that old canard receives praise only because...it does feel good to say or write.
We need to step beyond feel good and work in the real world for stabs at actual solutions or just plain old help making things...a bit....better all 'round.
Again, imho.

 

[Beagle Huntsman]

I have always believed there is a more sinister side to the gamebird decline than what is typically mentioned. In my part of SE Ohio, we still have the habitat for grouse and quail, but no birds, and turkeys are disappearing too. The biggest change we have seen lately is the increase in bobcat numbers, but I still wonder if there is not a bigger problem working below the surface? Is it tied to the decline in insects?

 

[HillbillynOhio]

Question for the Turkey low number areas…..

Do you have a lot of raccoons? Raccoons will kill jakes and suck on turkeys eggs….along with other birds. Since I know for fact there not many **** Hunters like they use to be, since I used to be one……That could be the problem in a nut shell. ***** are everywhere now days. I have seen more bobcats and coyotes in my areas. That could also be playing a role.

 

[Beagle Huntsman]

I personally am not seeing unusual numbers of raccoons, opossum, fox or skunk on my trail cameras - just occasionally. But I see bobcats every night, and up to 4 coyotes at a time every night. Rabbits and deer too.

 

[thornton]

Ohio likely does have some measure of ruffed grouse habitat w/food available.....as we still, to a degree, have companies which create early successional as a part of doing business.
However, 15 years ago the Wayne was mouldering under an ES % of 3.2, by their own calculations, and I would suggest that number is lower today....that reality can apply off of federal acreage too.
20% would be swell.

I fall to considering three points...1) today, creating is nowhere near the same as offsetting re ES habitat 2) we humans often misjudge habitat when we mistakenly imagine thick as being Job #1 and 3) the bird does not spontaneously generate under a build it and they will come scenario.
Time and breath-holding are not on Bonasa U's side.

I do not see sinister...I do see ignorance, blindness, selfishness and a tough gig in a changing world.

Blaming raccoon numbers only, or first, on a decline in trapping hits three of the above four....you pick, I have.
They are simply one cog on a wheel....perhaps, like Walmarts and succession, Buckeye Forest Council and insects.

 

[ruffhunter]

1978 is just now breaking news at the dnr! pathetic. theyve allowed and ignored the pheasant, quail and grouse. This should have been addressed in the 80s/90s. DNR should also have some control on the excessive MEAD clearcuts. Those MEAD/Anthony land/scioto/superior and couple other name transfers, their tree guys have taken 2000ac plus around me. Clearcutting can be good if you plant some stripes of aspen for grouse within mixed growth. We had a 20 yoa, 160ac section of pines 10 years ago. I got excited to see when it just got tall of enough to walk under, it was full of grouse tracks in the snow throughout. I couldnt wait for next season to get out and see one. However they cut it and i think its been at least 5 years since ive seen one. Keeping 4 to 8 trees per acre but then cut everything else down to the ground and just leave it lay makes zero sense. There not taking anything for pulp A barren square mile of nothing disperses too much game. Now 10-15 years out should be some good grouse habitat buts its all leased to out of staters who think they own your property with misconceptions of 140-200 plus inch deer in every lease lol. The deer and turkey has significantly dropped in my area compared to the late 90s/early 2000s. Hardly an oak and very few trees to roost in. I talked to a Fayette/Ross area pheasant hunter. He said they used to be able to get some, but no one in his group even seen one the last year or two. He said they hunted a lot too.

As mentioned above, i rarely get raccoons and possums on my 7-8 cameras including a couple bait cages. got some old behemoth bobcats and plenty of yotes as always. very rarely do i get a fox.

 

[R. Toker]

How much ground do you own?

 

[Beagle Huntsman]

Sounds to me that ruffhunter doesn’t own the ground. I have to disagree with some of what he said. My experience is that pine plantations are useless to most wildlife after they grow to the point where ground cover under them is shaded out. At that stage they become a monoculture that can be fixed only by cutting.

After clear cutting, the wildlife habitat is really good from year 2-8 or so, then once again the regrowth of hardwoods shades out the ground cover and the prime habitat diminishes. We need more clear cutting in SE Ohio, in my opinion, especially on land accessible to the public, since private clear cuts are quickly leased by deer hunters. I have some of my best hound running on areas recently clear cut.

 

[thornton]

Acreage planted to pines can be somewhat akin to biological deserts compared to natural regeneration.
That said, time of year can see such pine areas used and some say that both ruffed and spruce grouse can be targeted in the upper peninsula of Michigan in tamarack or red pine plantations.....again tho, seasonal and degree of use are the kickers.
Quail...can be different....since they are different.

I have found ruffed grouse and woodcock using clearcuts from 3 or so years to 18 or so years for a wide sweet spot...depending upon many variables.
Before and after happens but before can be tough on a dog and after can strongly pivot on those variables.

Ohio is not exactly a state where aspen does what aspen does.....one of several reasons the UGLs differ from the central Appalachians.
I would never suggest planting aspens....natural regen is better.
True clearcuts may not be quite what many consider .....cut prescriptions can often involve leaving some trees.....that may be a Shelterwood cut, I forget.
Point being from high-grading to a specially designed cut.....lot of variance in what may be loosely termed a clearcut.
Still, sunlight hitting the forest floor....remains a plus for many critters and, a healthy forest,imho.

 

[Bawana]

Still, sunlight hitting the forest floor....remains a plus for many critters and, a healthy forest,imho.
X2

 

[Bawana]

An excellent presentation on the status of the Wild Turkey.