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I'm gonna throw this out just to see what you guys have to say-
Saturday I had a chance to talk to an ODNR officer while I was getting some arrows made. He was telling me about all of the dead deer that have been found(and still being found) this year with arrows/bolts stuck in skulls,jaws,hindquarters,etc.
Should there be some kind of qualification that people should go through before they can hunt with a bow or crossbow? I've seen guys at the archery range that were having trouble hitting a 5' by 5' target, yet they were going hunting the next day.
Wounding animals doesn't do anybody any good(except PETA types,and coyotes), and makes all of the responsible hunters look bad.
 

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what weapon you use bootlegger,i have been all over the woods and yet to find a dead deer...also do you know this wildlife officers name...i find it very irresponsible that he would say this...i have talked to many wildlife officials and have never heard this mentioned...am i for bowhunter ed ...yes as i am for educating ALL hunters especially the young and the new hunters...but i'm for only ONE course not two...
 

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Bootlegger,
Touchy subject and a tough call, I'm sure. I've seen so many attacks from one faction of archery hunters on others that I'm reluctant to even post, but here goes!
I would think the basics of hunting ethics would be covered in hunter education, but once in the woods some people seem to forget ethics. There isn't much we can really do other than preach ethics and hope some of it sinks in. I had a problem with my shoulder last year, and my accuracy went bye-bye. I've hunted with "traditional bows" for around 40 years, and it was a tough fact for me to face. I bought a crossbow well in advance of deer season, and practiced - practiced - practiced! I could hit a pop can out to 50 yards with the use of a rangefinder, but after discussing the speed vs. reaction time of deer to "jump the string" I set a personal maximum range of 30 yards. I also bought a compound bow near the start of season when I found I could draw it with no shoulder pain. I didn't have time to become confident with the compound, so I didn't hunt with it! I passed up something like 24 deer because I didn't like the shot (too far, too nervous a deer, too much brush, poor angle, etc.) before I ever launched an arrow at a deer. A broadside doe at 17 yards, and I watched the arrow "smack" her right where I was aiming. She only went about 60 yards after the shot and was an easy recovery. I have NO regrets for choosing the crossbow to hunt with. It allowed me to make a perfect shot, when the other choices would have been questionable.
Since deer season the therapy I've been getting for my shoulder has improved it to where I can again shoot the longbow. If it continues I will probably hunt with it next season. I limit my shots to a distance where I can hit a dinner plate EVERY SHOT. Some days that might be 20 yards, some days 30, but if the shot don't "feel" right, I pass it up. But I will also keep the crossbow in my arsenal for the days when it is the better choice. I like it for stand hunting when I can pick out objects to know ranges for shooting. For still hunting the longbow, with "instinctive" shooting is hard to beat.
I don't mean to come off as Mr. Ethical Sportsman, but I try to be! I've hunted long enough to know if I don't disturb the deer with a bad shot, they will probably be back. So why take a chance on wounding one and loosing it? I passed one 8 - point buck 3 consecutive hunts. He was the same guy, but he just didn't offer a shot. Had him in easy range twice, but the angle was not good. I'm sure he'll be back next year if old age or some other hunter didn't get him, but at least he has a chance.
Sure, sometimes things just go wrong. Once I missed a huge buck at 25 yards because the arrow touched an unseen twig. I was lucky and missed the whole deer. That could have easily been a wounded deer, but I would have at least tried to find him.
As for forcing these values on other hunters - I can't do it, but if I lead by example, I have to hope a few will follow.
 

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well said wabi...i had a frozen shoulder rotator cuff most of last year and was ready to go to xbow...i have used recurves or longbows most since 1964 except for a short stint using compounds...luckily with rehab i got back into the recurve at a lower poundage of 45 and a max. range of 15yds. but would have been effective if a deer got this close.several got to 5-10 yds. but i passed on them.one nice buck at 15yds was passed on too.there will always be the 10% that will ruin it for all in no matter what we do...
 

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And not only with archery! I've seen a fellow with an autoloding shotgun (befor the limit on magazine capicity) fire 5 slugs at a deer at 150 - 200 yards, and not even bother to look for signs of a hit when the deer didn't drop. I've also heard a guy bragging that he got off 12 rounds with a handgun at a deer. These guys aren't "sportsmen" in any sense. I frequently find deer after gun season. I'm betting they were shot by people who have no idea of the signs of a hit, or any idea of how to track.
 

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I found a dead deer skull (doe unfortunately) but it didn't have a bolt in it or anything. I think it just died from natural causes.
 

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i am not pointing elbows at any one group of hunters as was originally done but to the 10% of ALL HUNTERS who break the laws/rules and care less about ethics...ANTI'S HAVE A REASON WHY each type of hunter should be out of the woods no matter what weapon or if he is ethical or not...its other hunters and the ones that are neither a hunter or anti we need to impress with our good ethics...this does not need to be a bash each other topic...remember its 10% of ALL hunters...that rule seems to apply for about anything we do,hunting,driving,bad cops etc...
 

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Your right george.;)
 

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That dang 10% will get you every time..... They aren't just hunters either.

Qualifing with a bow sounds like a great ideal, but in reality it doesn't make a bit of difference as to whether someone is going to hit the deer.

Shooting at a live animal is alot different than shooting at a fixed target or 3D animal target with an un-known range.

Things like buck fever, animal reaction, weather and Murphy's law will always be a factor and can make even the best archer miss.

Thunderflight
 

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I support requiring bowhunter education. No grandfathering. I also support a hunter eduction card be issued with a code which is required by the license outlet before they can issue a hunting license. Too many places dont even ask any more to see a license or card to get a license.

qualifying would be nice but tough to do.
 

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i am for grandfathering just like in hunters ed. i can see only one course mandatory...preferrably a combined course of hunter ed/bowhunter ed. and given at one place and one time(wkend etc.most hunters i know thats been hunting 30 or more yrs. know more than the young instructors teaching,including myself...and as far as ethics you cant teach a old dog new tricks,if he is breakin laws or stealin stands that long no education will change him
 

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I like the idea of qualifing before being able to hit the woods with any archery equipment but you have the same problem with gun hunters also.I think it would be to hard to get everyone qualified that wouldwant to and would cost to much and the seemto be the norm here latel cost and what can we do to put moneyin our pockets,but can't blame odnr they have to do what they have to do to make the money good or bad.Thunderflight is 100% right it is alot easier to hit a non moving foam target that it it when the real deal is facing you.Even some of the best archers will take a shot think it is good and end up putting a bad hit the animal.
 

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I'm sorry guys but I don't believe that qualifying with any weapon will make any difference at all.

When you qualify with any weapon you are quailfying your pysical ability to handle a weapon at a minimum standard. What you can not qualify is the mental standard of each individual. A guy may be able to score perfect on a gun or bow qualification round but it has no bearing on the choices he will make when actually hunting.

Just because a person takes hunter safety, bowhunter education, classes doesn't mean for a second that he is upon completion a safe hunter or a educated bowhunter. That person walks out of those classes and the proceeds how he or she wants to proceed.

The besy analogy I can think of is the drivers license test. We have all taken this test at one time or another. How many of you actually drive in daily life the same way you did, or would during a drivers exam today? I think it's a safe bet to say 0. It would be the same way with hunters. they would do what ever is neccesary to pass the test and then do it their way when out hunting.

You can not legislate ethics.

Kim
 

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I am with Lundy ... not only do I not think it will help all that much, but where is all of this money coming from .. hunters ed .. boaters ed .. bow ed ... Give me a break how about some good ole fashion common sense ed ... I don't know about you guys, but my pockets are getting mighty thin.
 

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I am not for proficiency test with any weapon. As it has already been said, you cannot force a person to wait for the best shot no matter what you teach them. However, there are some people that have never learned what shots should be taken and what shots should be passed up. Therefore, I think that the NBEF course should be mandatory for bowhunters and crossbow hunters, and the gun hunters should have a similar course for them. I have not taken the Ohio, hunter safety course for a long time, but I hear that stuff is in there now.

I also think that the person who started this thread is trolling. If you want to talk about numbers of unrecovered deer, just go grouse hunting with a dog a couple weeks after gun season. The numbers of dead deer that you will find does not compare to the ones that are unrecovered by the bow and crossbow hunters.
 
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