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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
What do you guys think about this........

It looks like the ODNR Division of Wildlife has come up with a way to get more revenue by introducing legislation that will allow a "new" hunter a chance to hunt for 3 years WITHOUT taking a Hunter Education class!

New legislation has been introduced that will allow the following;

1.) Anyone may purchase an "Apprentice Hunting License" but must be under the direct supervision of an adult 21 or older who has a valid Ohio hunting license.
2.) Same cost as regular license, same cost for deer & turkey tags.
3.) The licensed adult can take up to 2 "Apprentic" license holders afield at one time (2 max).
4.) The "Apprentice License" can be purchase up to 3 time (3 hunting seasons) before required to take the Hunter Education Course and get a "regular" hunting license.

According to the ODNR DOW's Chief, Steven Gray the "apprentice option may be a real advantage when a licensed hunter has a friend that wants to get involved in hunting. The friend has interest but hasn't been exposed to hunting. A spontanious invitation to go deer hunting piques the interest but finding out that he or she must fit a hunter education course into their busy schedule before the hunting trip will frequently mean the trip doesn't happen (for the new hunter)."

The above was taken from a letter sent by Mr. Gray to HEI's & District Wildlife Officers. His example of deer season is a bit ALARMING to me.....I'm 100% in favor of "new hunters", that's why I took the HEI courses myself. This type of "apprentice license" should be limited to upland game hunting ONLY and for ONE SEASON, in my opinion. When it comes to opening day of deer gun season, there will be a lot of "green" first timers "turned loose" on public land by their 21 year old adult sponser.....again my opinion.....and I just don't think that deer (or turkey) season is the place to try this approach. I'm sure a lot of other people will disagree with my opinion.....that's my 2 cents!
 

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I went ahead & took the hunter safety class with my son 2 years ago, mainly to be able to spend the experience with him but also so I could explain & expand on anything he didn't understand and so I'd have a certificate/card in case I ever want to hunt out of state, in a state that requires all non-residents to have taken the class. It was one of the best classes I've ever taken & I really appreciated that the DNR had put such a great program together to teach my son about being a safe hunter. I even learned a couple of things myself. I only missed 1 question on the test & my son only missed 2 so we were pretty pleased with that as well. As far as the apprenticeship program goes, I would have mixed emotions. I obviously think the hunter safety class is great & everyone that can take it, should do so but I also understand that locations of where folks live & even literacy levels in some areas may be a real problem for some folks so I'd be the last person to say that someone who may even depend on living off their land, to some extent, can't go hunting unless they take the course.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Mike,

Excellent points, many states are requiring non-residents to have taken a hunter safety course. Some states are also requiring a non-resident archer to take an "archery course" before issuing a license. This is above and beyond the standard state hunter education course.

Land owners are not required to have an Ohio Hunting License to take game on their own property, this would also apply to their children as well living with them.

I too have mixed emotions about this proposed license scheme and frankly feel the state is looking at ways to generate more revenue thru increased license sales and deer tags. You can bet there will be a sharp increase in deer tag purchases regardless of increased number of hunters in the field, if you get my point!
 

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No Way

I strongly disagree with this topic, as with anything else, there has to be a staring point in everything you do and if it could involve someones life, you had better take advantage of all the traing you can get BEFORE you put the gun in the hand of an inexperienced person! Man, they will do anything for a buck, wonder what's next" Pick the buck of a lifetime", pay here and put your name on it", we'll tell you where it's tied up at !!!!

Mike
 

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Hey 10Gauge,

I'm sure you're right about the whole political agenda side of things & I'm sure that they're always brainstorming new ways to make a buck. Fishin 2 appears to have some strong feelings on the subject & may have had some personal experience with one of the folks that should've gotten some training before they went afield. I wasn't required to take it when I was a kid & my dad put a lot of effort into teaching me about safe gun handling. I'm sure a lot of other folks on this site probably got the same. When it comes right down to it, there's a lot more deaths in our country due to folks leaving loaded guns laying around in their house than there's hunting accidents. I know the gun companies & retail stores are doing a lot more to communicate information about safer gun handling & selling gun locks etc. but it possibly would make some sense to require folks to test and/or sign off on some basic gun safety information when they purchase a gun. All of that said, it still wouldn't help prevent most of the stuff that's going on with guns that are out in the general population for home protection etc. and/or not for hunting purposes.
 

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I have to agree with Fishin 2. I can see the point of the Apprentice License, and the potential for increased opportunity for people to hunt who never had the cahnce to before, or who would otherwise not; and as a state employee myself, I can really appreciate the need for funding. But one cannot and should not be in the woods with a gun or a bow without at least the bare essentials of formal training, such as the hunters safety classes provide. Ideally, a novice would have much more extensive training as I assume most of us here have had the privilege of experiencing, from our fathers, grandfathers, uncles, etc., nearly from "day 1" in addition to the formal training of the hunters safety courses.

When I lived in PA, I had to take a hunters safety course, and when I moved to Ohio, I had to take the Ohio one. Unfortunately, I found the Ohio one to be too elementary, and was disappointed at how much easier it was than the PA one, at the time. (100% on the test, BTW!) I would like to see a much more extensive formal training regimen in the OH course, but I understand the problems with doing so. It is a good program, but it could be better. Just my opinion.

Anyway, pardon the digression. I simply could not support the Apprentice License program.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Everyone might want to contact their state representative and voice your opinions regarding the "Apprentic Hunting License" issue. The letter I recieved states the inititive is called "Families Afield" (I found that an interesting title, when the letter states the apprentice license won't be an advantage to hunting families, mostly people never exposed to hunting or belonging to a hunting family?). The DOW claims their number one priority is to "increase hunter numbers".

Personally, I think a better inititive would be to create a web-based hunter education course where a test could be taken online after completing several "on-line" chapters of the booklet. This would speed the process if the ODOW feels the hunter education classes are the "bottleneck" when it comes to people getting a license.

The ODOW also fails to comment on how this will address "Non-Resident" licenses. My take is that it will apply to both resident and non-resident alike.

On the other hand the apprentic license would be a good idea if limited to "upland game" only and was good for "one season". I don't think the DOW could generate as much money by eliminating the purchase of deer & turkey tags if they went this route!;)
 

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They may have the web based on-line program now. They were working on it 2 years ago when I took the class and even had the entire manual on-line.
 

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I'm not in favor of the apprentice program. I want to be in the woods with hunter educated people. I took the HE course back in 1980 and found it a favorable experience. I can't remember where my certificate is so I'll have to take it again when I have out of state opportunities for hunting.
 

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Mike,

You can get the course booklet on-line but you have to go take the test in person or take a "short" 4 hour class then the test after completing the work book. Bottom line is the DOW wants to "watch" or have a volunteer HEI watch you take the test.

The DOW has done a good job making the HE classes more readily available. Gander Mountain, Bass Pro & Dick's Sporting Goods all offer classes in my area but the downside is classes are always full and limited to a few weekends before hunting season starts. Classes are not held in the summer or off season because people don't attend, they wait till the last minute.

I find it ironic that I can take a college course on-line, ask the instructor questions via e-mail or in a chat room and even take the test but the DOW isn't offering this!

If they wanted to it could be made into an interactive hunting video game where once you reach a certain level of play and have answered questions along the way you pass the course! Okay now I'm nuts!:D

BM, you can contact the DOW and request a new card if I'm not mistaken all they need is a SSN?
 

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Hey 10Gauge,

I like your interactive idea & don't think it's nuts at all. That's a heck of a good idea!

BM: I keep my card with my hunting license in one of those Gander Mountain license envelopes & I agree with 10Gauge that you surely can get a replacement card.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Having a 16 year old "vidiot" has caused me to try and think on his level from time to time!

Hey, BM just thought about something else, the DOW had pretty poor record keeping back when the HE began so depending on how good the HEI was at record keeping your card "number" may or maynot be in the current system. This is something they don't always want to "fess up" to so if they tell you your not in the system give them a little greif and they might "grandfather" you and send a new card!
 

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I justed looked at the DOW hunters-ed on-line program - its a "no brainer" - if someone could not learn this stuff in a couple of hours they have no business with a firearm or hunting.

I would rather be in the field with an apprentice-hunter under the supervision of an experienced hunter than one who has just passed his hunter ed course.

Look at all the negative things that were posted during turkey season about the hunters who just donot have common sense.

You cannot get common sense out of a book or on-line course - but it you get to serve an apprenticeship under and experienced individual (hopefully a journeyman) - you will get the benefits of that persons wisdom.

A license is just a necessary way to regulate certain activities - it does not insure safety. Look at all the crazy stuff we see on the highways from licensed driver- ed drivers. I have a private pilots license and you see crazy stuff in the air and around the airports. Look at the two trained professionals who this week decided to take the airliner they were ferrying to its altitude limits - they both died and destroyed a valuable airliner.

When i started hunting in Ohio the regs were on one 8.5 x 11 tri-folded piece of paper. Now the give you a book and still cannot get all the regs in - maybe we are getting a little over regulated.

I do not know what the stats on hunter safety in Ohio is but if its getting safer lets keep the present program and look for ways to improve it - if not lets look at a fresh approach.

The apprentice-hunter option looks like a good option to me and is worth a try. Apprentice programs have worked very well in many fields.

Just my 2 cents.

stay safe
 

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Education starts at home. Wether it be hunting or life itself. I believe the Hunter Education Course is a good idea, from a book stand-point. But the real education like someone posted before starts well before the person ever picks up a gun.
 

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1.) Anyone may purchase an "Apprentice Hunting License" but must be under the direct supervision of an adult 21 or older who has a valid Ohio hunting license.
This should also say that the person that is 21yrs. or older should show proof of taking the hunter safety course as well.

As far as agreeing w/ this, I don't!! There are entirely way to many people in the field now that don't have a clue and now they want to add to it. It could mean more possible injuries/fatalities during the season.

I have a 9yr. old son who is taking the Safety course this fall and then he will be taking the Bowhunter Education course. These two courses are invaluable to a new hunter/bowhunter.

What ODOW needs is to recommend that all Ohio archers take the Bowhunter Education course. I personally would love to see it mandatory state wide but that will never happen.
ODOW could also give a discount to those that show proof of taking both courses. ($2 off your hunting license when you show proof of taking the Hunter Ed. Course and $2 off one deer tag if you have taken the Bowhunter Ed. Course)
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Geezer, I agree the "apprentice hunting license" would be a good thing IF people used it the way it is intended. But we all know what will happen......an inexperienced hunter with a "regular" license will take 2 less experienced guys out and "turn them loose" on opening day of deer season! This type of program should be "upland game only" and good for "one season" NOT 3 years! I think a "new hunter" can learn alot in 1 season of squirrel, rabbit and bird hunting. Then the graduate to a "regular" license and get to "move up" to deer & turkey.

Spit, you might get your wish regarding the bowhunting education requirement. The DOW has been talking about this for a couple of years now and if I'm not mistaken nearly half of the states require this in addition to normal hunters ed courses.

I've personally attended and taken the Ohio hunter's ed course with both my kids and again when I took the hunters education instructor class and I don't think it makes anyone a hunter it simply gives them the basics. I think the DOW has the cart before the horse with their proposed "apprentice" program by letting them bypass any training at all. The "apprentice" program would be a great idea if it were tailored toward families in other words a dad, uncle or grandpa could take youngsters within the family hunting on an "apprentice" license and educate them before they decide they want to take the "test". However, the DOW claims their target is not families but people who have never had access to the hunting life style.
:confused:
 

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what he said

Fella's we all know there could be 50 different scenario's of he says she says and the bottom line for the state is INCOME. That's wrong and it should be safety, cause if that person gets ahold of the gun or bow for all that matters, he or she could be making a bad situation worse, forever. Granted, hands on training is the best teacher, but there must be a buffer in there and it has always been to err on the safe side. So I guess I am saying, better safe than sorry!! Good Day Guy's

Mike:eek: :p
 

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fishin, YOU ARE 100% correct it's about increased sales of license and the money generated by additional tag sales!

INCOME, INCOME, INCOME

The ODOW's rational for this initiative (at least according to their letter) is to "allow people the opportunity to see how much fun hunting is before they go through the normal process, thereby making the process more desirable." Essentially they (DOW) are saying "Hunter Education", currently as offered by the DOW, is an undesireable process hindering people from going out hunting.

This may be accurate, but why not make the process easier, like offering Hunter Ed on-line and testing on-line, or an interactive on-line program as mentioned earlier, rather than "turn people loose" without any training or experience.

Since fish brought up "income"......as a volunteer hunter education instructor (HEI) any hours volunteered to educating, working county or state fairs or trade shows is documented and the DOW get's funding from the state & federal government for those hours volunteered. HEI's fill out "time logs" for the hours they volunteer to help the DOW at events. I think this is why the DOW won't make the HE course an "on-line" program, they will loose money on the hours volunteered by HEI's......HEI's don't make a dime, it's all voluntary but money trickles down to the DOW for those hours they volunteer!

I'm not knocking the DOW, just wish they would look at the real issues as opposed to just $$$, if they want more $$$ make the HE course available to everyone on-line, then they eliminate the barrier they feel is causing people not to hunt! I don't think HE is the real barrier, I think it is a combination of social change and the loss of small family farms. Hunting isn't as socially acceptable as it once was and the loss of the small family farm has erroded the family hunting tradition and eliminated the "training grounds" used by the new hunters. This is why, in my opinion, we don't have as many "new" hunters today.....or as the DOW puts it a "decline in the number of hunting licenses purchases" (INCOME).
 

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What do you guys think about this........ It looks like the ODNR Division of Wildlife has come up with a way to get more revenue by introducing legislation that will allow a "new" hunter a chance to hunt for 3 years WITHOUT taking a Hunter Education class! New legislation has been introduced that will allow the following; 1.) Anyone may purchase an "Apprentice Hunting License" but must be under the direct supervision of an adult 21 or older who has a valid Ohio hunting license. 2.) Same cost as regular license, same cost for deer & turkey tags. 3.) The licensed adult can take up to 2 "Apprentic" license holders afield at one time (2 max). 4.) The "Apprentice License" can be purchase up to 3 time (3 hunting seasons) before required to take the Hunter Education Course and get a "regular" hunting license. According to the ODNR DOW's Chief, Steven Gray the "apprentice option may be a real advantage when a licensed hunter has a friend that wants to get involved in hunting. The friend has interest but hasn't been exposed to hunting. A spontanious invitation to go deer hunting piques the interest but finding out that he or she must fit a hunter education course into their busy schedule before the hunting trip will frequently mean the trip doesn't happen (for the new hunter)." The above was taken from a letter sent by Mr. Gray to HEI's & District Wildlife Officers. His example of deer season is a bit ALARMING to me.....I'm 100% in favor of "new hunters", that's why I took the HEI courses myself. This type of "apprentice license" should be limited to upland game hunting ONLY and for ONE SEASON, in my opinion. When it comes to opening day of deer gun season, there will be a lot of "green" first timers "turned loose" on public land by their 21 year old adult sponser.....again my opinion.....and I just don't think that deer (or turkey) season is the place to try this approach. I'm sure a lot of other people will disagree with my opinion.....that's my 2 cents!
I like the fact that a kid that doesn’t know if he wants to hunt gets the chance as long as it’s on private land I don’t see an issue he will be with his parent who should have a license and experience just my 2 cents
 
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