Flathead Catfish needs your help

[MadCatter]

As I am sure some of you are already aware, there are people that are trying to get the Flathead (Shovelhead( Catfish some protection by getting it gamefish status. There are areas in the Ohio River and other rivers across the country where the populations of this Trophy fish are being decimated by commercial fishing using a variety of different types of netting methonds. How long will it be before this species goes the way of the Sturgeon, I myself have never seen a Sturgeon in the wild, I don't want our children or grandchildren to say the samething about the Flathead. These great fish are not being hunted for food, a vast majority of them are being sold live to private paylakes across the nation where they eventually die of stress, in alot of cases these lakes amount to nothing more than ponds. These lakes were are not suited for these large fish in so great of numbers ... Many are being kept alive in the summer months by aerators because the lake cannot maintain an effecient amount of oxygen naturally.
We are in no way asking for a ban on keeping these fish for food, we are simply attempting to get the Flathead catfish classified as a game fish, offering it the same protection as many of the fish you already fish for.
Even if you are not a fishermen, I would appreciate it if you would take the time to vote .. Could you imagine how you would feel if some companies started capturing our deer and other wildlife only to be sold to ranches where they were killed for money?
This poll is simply to get a feel for the amount of support out there, your opinion is needed and respected no matter how you vote. It would be greatly appreciated if you have any suggestions or comments that you post them here, it would give great insight into the feelings of other fisherman on the subject

MadCatter

[Flatheadmaniac]

YES!!

[atrkyhntr]

Of course I would...

Now what needs to be done next is create a free online petition then send the results to the DNR :)

http://www.PetitionOnline.com/ ;)

[flathunter]

As you know I am kinda pissed at the lack of support I was recieving, but I voted yes....And The online petition is better than nothing, not as much as I was planning but a start....So if no one gets the online petition going, I will contact my sister in law who is a attourny, and try to get her to help me fill out the proper wording on the online petition

[DavidWS10]

I voted yes on this matter simply because flatheads, and all catfish for that matter, are game fish and should be treated as such. Commercial fishing to support paylakes is what needs to be extinct.

[atrkyhntr]

Give it time ... this post is not that old yet.
If you can get the wording down pat I'll create the petition :D

[mrfish/OH]

That's the petition thing I mentioned in another post.
I think if we could get a letter writing campaign going to the govenor might be a good idea. If we could attract his attention I'm sure it would help. ;)

[flathunter]

Jim a letter writing campaign would also be good, and to the gov.

[Ðe§perado™]

Why just the Flathead...make all catfish game fish.

[DavidWS10]

I agree with Desperado, all catfish should be classified as game fish.

[MadCatter]

I have been doing some web surfing as I am sure many of you have ... I have ran across several instances where people associated with the ODNR have refered to the Flathead catfish as a game fish ..... I have found that the Flathead is offically listed as a commercial fish ... I wonder just how many people realize just what is going on with the big cats .. The petition sounds like a great place to start ... We need to get one started as soon as we can .... Once it gets up and running we can start posting its address on various sites:D :D :D I have also read where some classifications have already been changed or updated ... this is somewhat good news to me, at least it shows a willingness for the state to take some action. Every change has to start somewhere, the only way to lose is by not trying

[MadCatter]

if you classify all catfish even the channel cat, then you are going to eliminate the legitimate people that raise catfish on catfish farms for food consumption ... I feel that is a can of worms that is better left alone .... I don't know how far people want to pursue the situation. I don't think the channel cat is suffering near as much from the commercial fish for sale industry as the flathead ... Most channel cats that are bought are raised in farms, the rivers are far too polluted for them to be sold as food

[DavidWS10]

I'm a little bit miffed right now. The thread about how commercial fishing is depleting the flathead population has been removed. This does not make me happy.

[MadCatter]

Moved to where and by whom

[atrkyhntr]

What we need is someone who knows about this subject and will do some research so we don't go off 1/2 cocked and not 100% prepared.
I'd say we need to go back at least 10 years and find out what the population was from then to now. We need to show a decline or at the least some harm is being done here and we need to show that commercial fishing and pay to fish lakes are the reason why or part of the reason...
We need to provide the state with a reason to make the Flathead Catfish a gamefish.
We need the latin name to ensure that everyone knows we're for real and we are making an attempt to make this look official...
Any ideas shoot them here...
I also have a way to suck websites dry for potential emails of those who may show us support and we could get an email campaign going ;)
But 1st be prepared... I know nada about the Flathead Catfish myself...

[MadCatter]

Flathead Catfish ( Pylodictis olivaris) Good luck on trying to find populations or even the amount harvested ... I am having no luck in that area ... The only thing I have found so far is where they are listed as a commercial fish

[DavidWS10]

The Latin name for the flathead catfish is Pylodictis olivaris.

"Pylodictis is Greek meaning "mud fish," and olivaris is Latin for "olive-colored." Flathead catfish are typically pale yellow (hence the name "yellow cat") to light brown on the back and sides, and highly mottled with black and/or brown. The belly is usually pale yellow or cream colored. The head is broadly flattened, with a projecting lower jaw. The tail fin is only slightly notched, not deeply forked as is the case with blue and channel catfish. Young fish may be very dark, almost black in appearance." (Texas Parks and Wildlife website)

http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/fish/infish/species/flt/flt.htm


More good information about the flathead can be found at:
http://www.thecontentwell.com/Fish_Game/Catfish/Flathead_Catfish.html

[flathunter]

I dont think we are going to find harvest records for commercial netting, I wont even call it fishing because it is not....But all you have to do is pick up a free copy of Ohio Fisfinder from most tackle stores and see where these trophy fish are going..they have listings for dozens of paylakes which stock tons of trophy cats..And they get them from the netters..I think thefishfinder even has a website with this info......You know my home fishing waters are not effected by this yet..But once the Ohio river is depleted of these big cats they will go other places to find them.

I think the original wording of the first post on this thread would go for a start, and maybe add a few things to put on the online petition?

[flathunter]

As some of you know I started this poll on gofshohio also...with 4000 members we can use thier help..link to the thread below.



http://66.216.66.212/forum/showthread.php?threadid=31412

[MadCatter]

I just had a thought ... The Cincinnati boat and sportshow is in town for a few weeks .... Might be a good place to try an get a few signatures:D :D :D :D :D

[mrfish/OH]

FHM has buddies at his favorite tackle shop, I'm sure BPS would put one out here at their Outdoor World.
Only makes good business sense for them too. No fish, no tackle sales.

[Flatheadmaniac]

that Jacks poll on the GFO got 4 NO'S?????:confused:
What are peoples problems, are they just doing it to be funny? cause it is'nt funny at all...and none of them will voice thier opinions WHY to vote no! Maybe we have guys comerical fishing among us?
Has anyone set back and noted the guys who have VOICED thier opinion and voted YES...and have you also noted the guys who are always on-line that havent spoken a word on these threads yet?hmmmm
How some can say they are CATMEN is beyound me!

If i had a few copys of a petition in my hand, i could get it posted up in Fishermans TODAY and they would help push to get it filled..plus i know i could get one filled myself with guys i know all around this area...just say the word!

[catslayer]

[QUOTE]
Has anyone set back and noted the guys who have VOICED thier opinion and voted YES...and have you also noted the guys who are always on-line that havent spoken a word on these threads yet?hmmmm
How some can say they are CATMEN is beyound me!

maniac im prety much a quite person i usually dont have a whole lot to say i just like to read a lot and try and learn a little about flatheads. i did vote yes and i will support the best that i can . i think your last post was out of line . i think your pointing fingers in the wrong direction, just because someone has not posted yet does not mean they do not support this cause.

[flathunter]

Yes Scott I have noticed that there is some prominent Catmen who have said nothing on this topic:confused:

[Wise1]

Guys........Your plan wont get off the ground without well laid plans and having your "ducks in a row" so to speak........I know some of you have been researching the Flathead topic with little luck...........And I also see where some comments have been made as to why some of the Catmen have no comment...................First thing I would like to know is: What kind of limits are imposed on the Netters, How many Cats can they take per day per guy?..........Are they netting for table fare and just keeping the incidental Flats? The ODNR MUST be checking their Creels from time to time.......They have to be.

I personally would like to see the Flat be protected...........for sure, along with the Big Blues as well........

What I dont see on this thread or others is anyone complaining prior to this about not being able to catch any BIG flats or Blues in the Ohio.............seems to me that most of the River guys kickbutt from what I see.................I realize that you guys are looking to the future as well............My main question is "Do they have Limits as to what they can take" ..........IF yes, then Perhaps Mother Nature is keeping up with the Netters quite well.....PLEASE DONT MISUNDERSTAND ME: I THINK NETTING STINKS MYSELF !!!!! My point is perhaps another approach would be to gather all facts first and maybe look at slot limits etc.........Another point to consider is other states, they can un-do what you work so hard for in a short time..Its a LONG river........Let me get my Helmet on quick b4 some of you jump Me :D :D :D

[mrfish/OH]

There are more & more commercial fishermen every year. Now they are fishing longer & more areas than before.
I know alot of guy who will support catfish becoming gamefish who don't have computers. Not everyone is "hooked" on messageboards like some of US.....
Takes me alot of time to check the several I do go to each day. Hard to find time to fish !
Here's an interesting idea. I got a survey from somewhere- Ohio State college I think. They followed up when I didn't send it back. It was a survey the Ohio Dept of Waterways commisioned about boating. Had alot of questions about ramps, use of water, etc. Horsepower restrictions....you know it's under consideration to change 10HP limit lakes to unlimited- but with a low speed limit so all boaters can use all lakes. Also you could write in stuff, like I did about how docks shouldn't be at the ramps where people can block the ramps docked to them & have people prep away from the ramps, etc.

Anyway, my point is that maybe the DNR would be convinced rather easy make a survey or something.
I guess somewhere there would have to be big farms for raising big cats for the paylakes, they will have to have an option to continue in business. Their would have to be restrictions on where they get their fish( farm raised only), or they will get them from out of state netters. I would guess that the same farms that raise cats for the food industry could just let them grow larger for the paylakes. Of course, I'd like to see them have farm raised cats for eaters & let folks catch their own big fish in the wild or with guides. I really believe it could start a whole industry on the Ohio River.

[mrfish/OH]

We both posted about the same time, in response I would have to reply. Personally I had a banner year in the fall on big cats. so did my fishing buddy. The vast majority of the seasoned veterans on the river, guides, etc DID NOT. Until September there was hardly any fish over 20# caught.
Part of the blame questioned is did the coal slude spill in W.VA have an effect? Most think yes ( that was in fall of 2001 I think) Maybe it killed some fish duing the winter buried in the mud or something. Now suddenly, there are nets in one of the areas I fish. Since it's winter, they must be targeting the blues. Catch them in IN and sell them to Ohio paylakes? You can't keep blues in OH now, but you can have them in paylakes? Makes no sense.
I think once the ball gets rolling, it wil pick up steam & the final bill that's passed will hopefully have the necessary provisions.
First thing first- make cats a gamefish, no more netting of them, have limits on numbers and maybe a size limit to one Flathead harvested per day over 30" Maybe something like the bass and walleye regulations. They can have 6 walleye, saugeye, sauger combined total of 6, same with bass, smallies, LM & spotted. Stripers, muskies, all have limits. Shouldn't be a big problem.
Actually I think IN has a 10 catfish limit in place for the anglers.
That would protect those smaller streams could be wiped out quickly by alot of pressure. Like Jack was saying, the commercial guys stay mostly in the river, but he's said some trotliners wiper out some of his stomping grounds in the past.

[mrfish/OH]

that Jacks poll on the GFO got 4 NO'S?????
I thought this was Ohio Sportsman, why don't those who want to read GFO go there & post. Do we have to have a quote & link from there everyday ?

Let's just get this Catfish are Gamefish regulation passed instead of finger pointing.

[cwcarper]

For some reason, Ohio (and specifically southwestern Ohio) holds a major concentration of paylakes, probably more per area than any other region of the US (at least for catfish). This is a booming business and the reason why the increase in commercial fishing is occuring. In just the past few years, a lot more paylakes have started up, and all the ones I know of stock lots of big flatheads and blues. 10 or 15 years ago, the size of a respectable flathead from a paylake was usually 20 or 25 pounds. You didn't see the 30's, 40's, 50's, etc. like you do today, and you never saw bluecats. Paylaking has followed the overall trend in increasing popularity of catfish, and people want more of a chance at catching the large fish. Because of this, the commercial fishing that occurs on the Ohio River is different from that which occurs most other places -- these fish aren't harvested as food sources like so many places in the South. They're transplanted from their natural habitat into these artificial ponds.

Now, I don't want this to sound like an attack on paylakes. I fished paylakes for a few years, which is why I know so much about what goes on there. They provide a service to a large group of people. The problem is what once had nothing more than a cult following has grown into a major business. The original idea of a paylake -- a place where someone can come to catch a few fish, usually for the table (trout, channel catfish, etc) has changed into a "trophy" fishery, where fishermen catch fish for money, and sometimes lots of $$, and this change in philosophy is what has created many of our problems here in Ohio.

The demand for large catfish is so great that many lakes have turned to other sources for their giant cats. As the sting operation that was released last year showed, many paylakes have resorted to buying fish illegaly from people who catch them from our local lakes and rivers, so now not only is the Ohio River affected, but all of our waterways are. Many lake owners have turned to commercial fishing from other states like Arkansas and Tennessee to supplement their stocks from the Ohio River. This is in part because they receive blue cats and larger flatheads from these waters, but also because it's getting more difficult to obtain all the fish they need from the Ohio River alone. I know a few people who commercial fish for paylakes, and they keep every catfish they catch, no matter what size. They stock their own lake with the choice fish, then sell the rest to surrounding lakes.

Just a little info. I wanted to post regarding the reasons for commercial fishing and why the problem is becoming more and more important.

[Wise1]

Ive have always been an Analytical one..........I like to gather as much info as possible and then proceed, Im not an Ohio River fisherman, so I just do not have enough facts to post up what I think "we " as a group should attempt to make happen.....................Never go off halfcocked right? :D :D Keeps your boot outta your mouth.

I think the goal is attainable, and I would agree that the first goal should be making a Flathead Cat a game fish in Ohio......................( KY and Indiana would have to follow as well ) .........Then a limit on what a guy as a Netter could keep would / should help the populations.............

My fishing club grows its own trophies, thats why we have strict rules about handling fish by the gills etc, we dont take Blues outta the nets any more to protect them... Our fish breed niceley and eat like kings ( we stock Shad ) ...Its neat seeing a swarm of baby cats under a dock in the lake.......and we have Zero bullheads in our Lake..we have had members bring us fish from Catfish Paradise etc...we say NO THANKS.......they end up dead anyway.....


So, Im with ya................

[mrfish/OH]

I was just checking, it was the Ohio Sea Grant Collerge Program who's name is on the survey from Ohio State University
Maybe we could write them too ?
CW- great post. and you're right about paylakes. They fill a void, only there's a change now. The contests have even tempted me, I know 2 guys who make some good money fishing them. They shoot for those big jackpots. He said some of those guys get mad when he leaves with several thousand dollars of their money !

[rrbski]

I voted yes..

..as y'all know I'm a carper and this is exactly what the C.A.G (Carp Angler's Group) is trying to do with the carp...in all states. Publicity is the key...along with the petition...but getting a "National" presence...ie organization...or at least a "State" Organization going goes a long ways towards helping your cause.

Next is public education.....through publisized get togethers and tournaments/fun fishing events. Patches, T-shirts, hats etc. Chose venues out in the public eye....put flyers up in tackle stores etc.

Submit articles to newspapers, fishing mags etc.

A petition is a good start...but a "membered" organization consisting of those that sign the petition goes a long ways. Politicians know petitions go away....a club is more "durable" and in it for the long haul.

Anywho...just some thoughts out loud...what you are trying to do is the same thing we in C.A.G are doing...you don't hear me pushing membership...but, that's my secondary goal...the primary is just to get people to have fun catching them and to start viewing them the same ways that bass, walleye etc are viewed. Popularity is what makes it all happen. No quick fix sorry to say....but progress is being made.

[MadCatter]

As far as I have been able to tell, the Flathead is listed as a commercial fish ... There are NO creel or size limits imposed on it that I can find ... Since there are no limits it is very likely that there are not many records... As far as catmen not posting a reply or voting in this thread or the one in gfo .. that is their business and I respect that ... the poll on these threads don't count for anything .. when it comes to signing a real petition I am sure most will sign... I posted this thread offering anyone that vote no the opportunity to post why WITHOUT getting flamed.... You have to remember that there are always going to be people that will vote no or refuse to sign ... Instead of getting mad, we need to find out what it is about our presentation that isn't reaching them .. if indeed they can be reached.... If they choose not to vote or to vote no that is up to the individual they should not be attacked for feeling the way they feel... I would like to know why someone would vote no myself .. but not to get mad or start a debate, but to learn what we are up against... If anyone that has voted no want to PM me, and give a reason why .. I assure you that I will not mention any names publicly or privately.. This thread was intended to gather information only, no one should be pointed out or attacked for feeling differently...

I totally agree that we first need to get as much information as we can, I mentioned that in the first thread .. the last thing we want is to be uninfored or even worse .. misinformed when confronted with petition in hand...

Right now it would appear that the flathead population is healthy because of the posts of some of the catmen .. there pics and stories are well know ... but remember how few cats were taken this summer ... only in the last month or so of decent weather fishing were hardly any cats over 30lbs taken from the Ohio ... Some of its tributaries have consistantly given up big cats through the summer, but remember these tributaries are not commercially fished ... It is my opinion that if you wait for the numbers to show a noticeable decline .. then you have waited too long, the recovery period for a 20 to 50 lb fishery might be 15 to 20 years ....

[atrkyhntr]

Guys I am not in the cat catching brotherhood... But when I read that a club may be needed then I can see that we need to set our ears back and straighten up... That may well be the only way this can become a reality...
I'd join and offer to make the website too.... all we need to do is ensure this club is non-profit and the server I can get for free :D

Now what we need is a name and someone who knows all the 5 W's.... what when where why who
What= are we doing this for
when= can we expect to start taking action
where= is this going
why= are we doing this and getting involved
who= will take the lead

We need a club, that is a fact, this club would need to have an agenda that will atract members. This club must be non-profit for several reasons... The 1st is so that all money donated can qualify as tax deductable and 2nd non-profit is so much easier to show where any and all money has been alloted. Also and this is very special about non-profit... this club can qualify to have mathcing funds and/or grants for studies to verify information one way or another.

Politicians know petitions go away....a club is more "durable" and in it for the long haul.

Well said... We need to find ou twhich politicians votes or are issues that affect the outdoors and fishing in general...

Now if we decide to go this route one word of warning:eek:
This needs to be treated as a conception and everyone who is willing to become involved should remember that the next 9 mos are very crucial and then the infant will be born and brought home to be raised nutured like any newborn, time is not at a premium time is not an option...
THIS WILL TAKE TIME AND PATIENCE NO DOUBT

Now are there any clubs in Ohio already or even the US for that matter? We may already have something in the works hmnmn :confused:

[DavidWS10]

There is a National Catfishing Association, and after finally gaining access to their website I discovered that it hasn't been updated since 1999 (http://www.nationalcat.com/NCA.html). And while searching the net, I also discovered that there are a nember of catfish societies already in existence (uscats.com, wwcats.com, etc.) but the bulk of them deal with catfishing tournies, except for the organization in the U.K.

Now, if someone will give me a direction to go in our research, I will do the best I can to dig up whatever info I can find.

[atrkyhntr]

THANKS DavidWS10

Well I see that there is something at the national level but what we need to know about is here in Ohio...
If there is nothing or nothing that looks like we're after or willing to baclk then maybe we should "GULP" take the bait and run with it...

I am asuming that there is noting out there that can help what we're trying to do... There is nothing on the ODNR website that I could find....

WOW after viewing that website and how un-updated it is that alone should send up flairs letting us all know that if your not in something for the longhaul then don't jump in :eek:

[Ohio Bill]

Flatheads are fun to catch, They take skill to bring in, And BOY DO THEY GET BIG!!!!:D

[BottomBouncer]

I just now read this, wish I had sooner. Why anyone would vote yes is beyond me. Either they are dicken' around or are serious.
Maybe affraid that if a flattie has protection it'll eat up your "true game fish" this is beside the point

I can try to get some info up at OSU between classes. Maybe I can find out who the some of them people are that study in this area and ask them some questions.

If you guys can think of anything I might be able to do with the resources up there, let me know.

FM, have you said anything to Matt about this?

[mrfish/OH]

I just wrote them. Here's what I asked. I'm no writer, but I will post the reply when it arrives.:)

My question is about catfish. I would like to know why they aren't classified as a gamefish? It seems I've seen surveys where catfish & bass always are the 2 top targeted species. Bass are protected with a size & creel limit, while OH cats aren't. IN has a 10 catfish limit.
There are commercial fisherman netting the wild cats from the Ohio River & selling them to paylakes. I think it would be much wiser to develope the Ohio River into a great catfishing and striper fishery like SC has done with the Santee Cooper area. Guides and resort areas abound there. We could have the same thing in the Ohio River with the help of KY & IN. No more commercial netting, classify them as a gamefish. No netting of LM & SM bass, or stripers etc, so why allow it with cats? If there was a creel limit ( 8-10 fish) and a limit of one fish over say 30" kept per day we could have a world class fishery.
Marinas, guides, tackle, boat repair, restaurants, motels, etc would all benefit. Especially in small towns hard hit with no industry.
The ODNR would get more money from sales of non-resident licenses & guide licenses to make up for the loss of comercial fishing licenses.
Back to my original question, what would have to be done to get some sort of movement towards classifying them as a gamefish? Petitions? Lawsuits? Could a survey on license forms be issued ?
I belong to several internet fishing forums. There is certainly support to have catfish protected as a gamefish. Apparantly Texas did this a few years ago, and SC has begun a writing campaign to their govenor there. They are removing fish by the barrelful from "our" Ohio River. Also why are bluecats - an endangered species- allowed to be used in paylakes? What about stocking bluecats in out lakes?
I wanted to touch a few bases, and get some input on catfish in Ohio. The ODNR has been doing a good job with the saugeyes, etc. It's time to bring the cats into protection too.
Thank you, Jim

[BottomBouncer]

Good job Jim. I have realized but never actually thought about the fact that the Blues are protected, yet allowed to be used in pay lakes. That doesn't make any sense at all?


Can't wait to read the reply.

[flathunter]

Guys I have been i contact with a mississippi river catfish guide who is doing the same thing we are trying to do..Here is one of his emails to me..I left his name off for now




Jack,
It is very possible, if all the concerned anglers get together and raise Hell. Ya'll have got to form together and stick together. You can't have a bunch of fence riders and spineless blowbags!! I know what I am talking about because I have been intrumental in size limits being imposed on the Miss. river in TN. waters for commercial fishermen and hopefully it will go statewide this year for all fishermen.
I have the commercial fishermen mad at me and threatning me because they think I am solely responsible for this regulation. I have had Catfishermen complain and cry about the devestation the Commercial netters are doing to the Blue and Flatheads, but when it comes down to taking a stand, they "chicken out". Many are afraid they will piss the Commercial fishermen off, and beleive me it does!
I have even had a couple of guys jump over the fence when they saw that they too, might have to return the big Cats to the river. They are sport fishermen that want to complain about the fish the Commercial guys take out of the river but when they catch a 50+ pounder, they want to drag it all over God's green earth showing it off. They don't have enough sense to realize that a picture will last for years.
There is too many people chaseing these trophy size fish now days, for us sporfishermen to keep them. Big Cats are in demand and if we don't conserve, they will deminish!
Everyone has got to take a stand and stick to it. We can win but it won't be a cake walk.
I take the commercial fishermen's threats seriously and I hope they realize that I too will counter-attack. They mess with my personal property or my physical being, I will them too.
Stay in touch and stop this senseless slaughter of every fishermens resource

[flathunter]

As you can tell from his email he has been threatened by the commercial fishermen in his area with harm...That makes me want to get this done even more:mad:

[BottomBouncer]

When it comes time, I'll put my name on the list. I enjoy cattin' and invest way too much money in it, as all of you do, to watch it diminish to nothing.
And the idea of cats, whether it be channels, flatties or blues being taken from OUR waters and put in some over size aquarium for people that don't have enough.......I don't know, for people who are too lazy to fish a natural waterway? Is lazy right? I don't know. But now that Jim brought up that point it p's me off.

The cats attract too many people to be considered a bottom feeding trash fish.

[MISFIT]

i have not voted in the poll,but have been doing a little surfing and writing.i sent this to the dnr in hopes of getting some kind of answer as to what plans,if any,they have.


To whom it may concern,
After revieing your 10 year strategic plan for inland waters,I would like to commend you for your efforts to impove our fishing resources,and the job you have done thus far.However,there is one thing that didn't seem to be addressed in the program.That is any specifics regarding regulations on particular species.
Upon noticing in your report,that you consider the catfish one of the most sought after fish in the state,I would like to know if there are any plans to list it as a gamefish,and place some type of bag,size limits on it.
I also would like to know if you are considering any restrictions as far as commercial harvest.I know that concerning the Ohio river,our neighboring states have different policies,and the division works closely with them.Which leads to one of my concerns about the Ohio.In my opinion,the commercial fishing industry is having a negative impact on the flathead and bluecat populations,along with,to a lesser extent,overharvest of the larger fish by sportfishermen.This is a concern shared by thousands of fishermen in the state,and not just those who fish for catfish in general,or trophy bluecats and flatheads.
In my opinion,there needs to be an effort to list the channel,flathead and bluecat as gamefish,and impose some type of limits and commercial restrictions on them,not only in the Ohio river,but all inland waters.
I have been fishing for most of my 56 years,and have noticed a marked improvement in almost all aspects of the sport,due for the most part,to the ODNR.I think that promoting the three top catfish species to sportfish status,with limits on both commercial,and sportfishing,would be welcomed with open arms by the vast majority of sportsmen in this great state.
There is a grassroots movement being born at this time,in an attemt to get these things done,with your help.I think it is well overdue and we need to protect this valuable resource for our children and grandchildren,so they may enjoy the great sport these fine fish have given me over my lifetime.
I'm sure you've received correspondance on this topic in the past,and will see more in the future.Please consider it seriously,and continue to be the agency that so many of us are proud of,by doing whatever is in your power to set goals to achieve the protection that these fish need.
in closing,I'd like to add that,not only would fishermen benefit from such regulations,but I'm sure there are many businesses and communities which could also benefit.
Thank you very much for you time,and I will be looking forward to hearing any response to this issue.
sincerely,
rick seevers



ps.......now i will vote yes in the poll:) ;)

[atrkyhntr]

SUPER Rick :D

Has anyone found out what politicions are on wildlife/outdoors side?
I'd like to compile a list for future reference...
As in when we write letters/emails like a few have done already copies or copies to can be sent to our state officials too ;)

[MISFIT]

i think maybe the search can be narrowed pretty quick by eliminating most democrats,and with his stand on gun issues,possibly our governor:rolleyes: ;)

[flathunter]

Thanks Ric, great letter!!!!

[BottomBouncer]

Took the words right out of my mouth Rick, regarding democrats and our governor.

Would there be any chance of pursuing our bordering states to bring this up to the odnr?

What are Indiana, Kentucky, W. Virginia and Pennsylvania's regulations?

[Wise1]

I would say that all the states that border Ohio would have to have the same regulations for this to work........if not the netters will just go to the Ky side or the WV side etc etc..BUT one step at a time eh?

[BottomBouncer]

I don't think anything like this would work for them if we didn't do the same......most of the river is on our border. You would think that they, on their own would confront our dnr about the subject.

[Ðe§perado™]

Great Letter Rick!;)

But your right about of neighboring states. To get this to work we all have to work together. But the way things go it will never happen.

Did you know you can bowfish catfish in Ky. and in the Ohio river from it's banks. I was told that by a ranger when I was visiting my grandmother over there. I guess the people just make the laws to suit them and will only change them with the right amount of money given to them. Just my opinion.:mad:

[atrkyhntr]

I wouldn't worry about the other states till we see what can be done right here... Thats like putting the cart before the horse.... baby steps...

I still haven't seen who, if anyone, is going to take the lead and start the ball rolling hmmnmnn :confused:
Does anyone know of a die-hard catman that would become involved from start to never<--- end???

Has there ever been a tagging of fish and records kept on movement or travel patterns in the Ohio River or anywhere?
That would be one area that grant money would be well spent...

[BottomBouncer]

This doesn't involve catfish, but shows that steps can be taken....and maybe Taft might care?

Info on Erie commercial fishing (http://www.dnr.state.oh.us/news/jan00/fishingrules.html)

[BottomBouncer]

A few rules on commercial fishing. Notice as you scroll down that many rules do not apply to the Ohio river or aren't as strict.


Commercial laws (http://dnr.state.il.us/legal/830.htm)

[atrkyhntr]

I like this link Ohio General Assembly (http://www.legislature.state.oh.us/) :D

I did a small "Search Proposed Rules by Keyword in Title" using the keyword "fishing" and came up with the following:

Commercial fishing seasons (http://www.registerofohio.state.oh.us/jsps/PublicDisplayRules/processPublicDisplayRules.jsp?entered_rule_no=1501 :31-3-01&doWhat=GETBYRULENUM)

Limited entry of commercial fishermen; commercial fishing licenses (http://www.registerofohio.state.oh.us/jsps/PublicDisplayRules/processPublicDisplayRules.jsp?entered_rule_no=1501 :31-3-03&doWhat=GETBYRULENUM)

Limitations on size of mesh of fishing devices (http://www.registerofohio.state.oh.us/jsps/PublicDisplayRules/processPublicDisplayRules.jsp?entered_rule_no=1501 :31-3-10&doWhat=GETBYRULENUM)

Fishing methods other than angling; areas affected

Special Ohio river fishing regulations

Now what I don't like is that I can't find anything of value but it may be there somewhere LOL I just haven't been deep into it to date :confused:
Figured more hands were needed so don't be bashful look around ;)

[BottomBouncer]

I couldn't find anything that was very useful......I searched yahoo under several ideas related to Ohio river catfish and Ohio catfish in general. Nothing informative came up.

[MadCatter]

Here is a site I found .. has some facts that will come in handy also it has someother cat links at the bottom

www.thecontentwell.com/Fish_Game/Catfish/Catfish_conservation.html

[BottomBouncer]

Okay.....help me understand, whoever you are, why you voted NO.......that's two people. If you don't care about cats, why are you in this forum!!!!

[george tinkham]

#21,flatheads are tough customers and the biggest I have landed is 15# but I had to bring it 100yds upstream on a 9' micro lite pole.wHAT DO THEY LACK,i KNOW FOR A FACT IT ISN'T FIGHT!

[atrkyhntr]

Hey BottomBouncer...
Never jump on someone for placing a vote.. we don't know if their straddling the fence or what... We can with some quality information possibly bring them over to our side :D

Also our time is better spent on the agenda at hand not looking for a word fight or worse on the forum ;)

[MISFIT]

I wouldn't worry about the other states till we see what can be done right here... Thats like putting the cart before the horse.... baby steps...

I still haven't seen who, if anyone, is going to take the lead and start the ball rolling hmmnmnn
Does anyone know of a die-hard catman that would become involved from start to never<--- end???
very good.

in my email to the DNR i tried to address the issue of catfish in the state of ohio in general,for the most part;and not just the ohio river,or any catfish in particular,or any specific group.you are right in that we need to worry about ohio first,and hopefully if this state takes some positive steps in the right direction,the others may follow,but any progres won't be easy or quick.as far as a diehard catfishermn taking the lead,that would be great,but it wouldn't neccessarily have to be a "catman"(but it sure would help).could be anyone who is interested in protecting a very valuable resource that may be in danger.if i had the knowledge,resources and energy,i would be more than happy to run with something like this as hard as i could.sadly i am not able to do that,but i will gladly help in any way that i can.

[MadCatter]

I posted this tread in the first place to try and get a response and feel for what was needed to get this movement started and also what was needed to bring people that don't understand what we are doing. All votes are welcome here, and there should be no attempt in drawing people out or attacking anyone that doesn't feel the way we do. We are trying go gather information on peoples feelings on the matter .. How someone votes is of no concern, it should be viewed as a weakness in the presentation of our intent. It is clear to see why someone won't post a reason for voting no there isn't anyone that wants to get flamed... There are various reasons for someone to vote no ... all we can hope for is that after reading an intelligent, well informed presentation that these people will realize that we are not tying to stop eating of catfish, or close paylakes, run commercial fisherman out of business .. We are just attempting to protect a natural resourse in a way that will clearly benifit the speices and all involved in the long run. The Flathead has been offered some protection in other areas and it has made a come back .. Right now there are virturally no limits on the size or amounts of catfish that are removed from our waters. While surfing the web looking for information, I have seen well documented articles stating that commerical fishermen have in one particular lake taken as many as 100 30lb and over flatheads in a single day, there are no limits to the amout of fish harvested . I think any reasonable person understands that in this day and age of machinery and technological advancements coupled with an ever increasing knowlege of behavioral patterns of fish, that no species can last long under such pressure..

[mrfish/OH]

With the technical advances and increased fishing pressure, all species are under constant attack.
Some examples of advances would be GPS & sensitive electronics, I know they've helped my fishig as I can put a waypoint where I want on my screen- we did this on the stumps where we caught fish at Lake Marion-they we could return the following day.
There's big improvements in hooks, lines, even sinkers, and with sites like this and others, more interest and knowledge shared. I also think there might be more info shared if there were restrictions in place so big fish were protected. ;)
I don't know that we need any individual to head it up. It would be a good idea, but some might quit when they encounter a little pressure and want to quit. Also it would have to be someone who wouldn't alienate others, someone even on an even keel & level headed ( that leaves out most catters -jk)
I sure like alot of what's been said by everyone, and atrkyhntr in particular, you seem to understand & have a grasp of what's needed. I guess we need to have more info and be armed with the facts so we know who to contact, and what methods will be the best - ie. letter writing ( and to whom), petitions, etc.
I think the ball is already rolling, we just need to keep it rolling & create a snowball effect.
Also a main point, I think it should be to get catfish classified as a gamefish, at least in my mind is the most important thing. Then size & creel limits could be debated. We have to know what we are aiming for. I don't think ending commercial fishing should be the thrust as was mentioned by someone earlier in this thread or one of these threads. We're already spread out all over and hard to keep up :rolleyes:
There would be restrictions on harvesting gamefish. Restrictions on size for the commercial guys would have to fall in place. Maybe Ohio can take the lead & the bordering states will follow and agree to the same restrictions along our common borders. If KY follows, then maybe IN would too, as they share the border with KY.
Maybe if OH isn't receptive, maybe KY would be. They have trophy fisheries there now in Lake Cumberland, Cave Run and others. They are aware of what a fishing resource can do for an area.
The benifits and advantages must be stressed. In other words, a win-win situation. Economic growth for the states might be their priority. That's my 2 cents worth, and I'm just throwing it out there.
I think we need to be clear on what we are trying to accomplish. Then that petition thing would be good to show support.

[flathunter]

Here is waht I have found out so far while talking to "several" people in other states trying to do the same thing, some with good results.....All have told me we have to form a group! With a name, such as Ohio Catfish anglers or something they say without a group we wont get noticed......And we have to have a leader or president of this group...And they say it will take some money so we would have to have donations from members....Once the group is formed, then start the letter writing, the online petition, and showing up at odnr meetings...Also speaking with state represenatives, congressmen, and the govenor...Also mass letter writings to the people just mentioned.......

[mrfish/OH]

Might even be something just about catfish, or Save the Catfish and then maybe we could get the help of other's already involved & pool the resources. Maybe a lawyer already has some of it already drafted for an other state, and he could change the name to Ohio ? People from out of state would have to be interested because I know we're all interested in out of state fisheries also. Look at how many go to Santee, Cumberland, Cave Run, Dale Hollow, FL, etc. Non residents flock to Erie too. I bet sportsman from all over would support the cause.

[flathunter]

Jim I think you are on to something "Save the Catfish" That would get peoples attention...So should we set up a poll on who is going to be president of this as now unformed group????? I vote Jim for pressident:eek: :D Fogot to mention..Also what others have told me is the media will go wild on this topic if they know what we are doing, both newspaper and TV...But first we must be formed into a group, and have a clear agenda on what we are after...............I suspect this will take awhile, this winter is a good time to work on it before fishing starts, unless your Jim who fishes all year...I wish I had more time, working six days a week and on the road 2-1/2 hrs a day driving to and from work limits my time...........But I do think this has promise, and remember this it is for the long haul, and will take awhile...But I do think we have many people who will be for this, much more than those who are aginst!

[mrfish/OH]

I will do alot to support the cause & am already doing a few things I'm not going into here. Basically I'm testing the water & trying to help create a ground swell. I don't think it's a bad idea for everyone who wishes to email the DNR. There's a link there to "contact us" and that's what we could do.
Funny you mentioned my fishing Jack, the river's down to 28 something feet & I'm hoping to find a clean ramp( free of snow & ice) to launch at on Thursday ! I'll have to sweep the snow off the boat cover, but I bet I won't have many other's out there to compete for the spots.;)

[rrbski]

Hi guys...whoever starts this...first thing you want to do is get with the IRS and file for a Non-Profit status and number. This gets you recognized as an "Official" group in the eyes of everyone. Other benefits...allows to charge membership, accept donations, gives you a Federal ID# so you can run raffles, gives discounts on bulk mail with post office etc...there's others as well. Without it...collecting funds from anyone is illegal. The CAG (carp angler's group) has made great progress with many state DNR's. Please refer to my first post on this...publisized fishing events and articles in the local papers. Also...it was good ole Mr. Stange at Infisherman that gave us our initial BIG boom in membership and publicity....after we told him we were forming and what we were about. Here's a link to a little bit of our history...we've now got members in Canada, UK, and Europe...takes a lot of work on the part of a couple folks...catters can help the most just by joining and paying dues....the more members a club has...the more people listen to ya.

On the Ohio River....if that's your interest as well...call yourselves the Ohio River "something" and go for membership in all states that it is shared by.

I'll help in any way I can with "thoughts"...but as the Ohio Chairman for the CAG...and just 2 months ago becoming one of the Directors on the National Board...my times kinda shot in the butte. I will be a paying member though for sure...it's a darn good cause.
===================================
http://www.carpanglersgroup.com/aboutcag.html

CAG Objectives

*Gain acceptance of the carp as an exciting and challenging sportfish.

*Become better carp anglers, assist others and encourage them to join us.

*Treat the carp with respect. Promote the release of trophy-size carp. Encourage others to do the same.

*Most of all: go fishing, share with others, and have fun!
=======================================

PS.....this assistance ought to be worth a least a couple catmen joining the CAG to make Ohio's voice a bit stronger :D

[mrfish/OH]

I'm sure we'll be leaning on you for your experiance. Jim

[atrkyhntr]

Very good points made... I will not go through them all which would seem repetitive ;)

Look good point made.... it does not need to be a catman but... who else would catman around the state follow other then one of their own? My reason for stating this is that through the various clubs and foundations I am a member or have been a member of I have seen exactly that lack of someone being from the ranks ruin exact intent/cause with infighting that leads to lack of overall agenda support... WHAT I JUST SAY LOL :confused: I hope you understand...

A leader is not someone who devotes their full time behind this but more or less leads by example and assigns others to fulfill a task or assignment and once things are run smoothly can step down graciously ( HINT JIM )... Leg work can be done by many and someone can be a secretary (with help) putting all info down into readable/viewable transcripts.

Look we do not need a voting public now to start this thing... Just need to get our feet wet, start slowly, compact information and set a workable agenda. When and if any funds are needed we'll then ask at first if anyone would like to chip in and we'll list exactly what we need and for what.

Here is what we did at a club I am a member of..... We were in dept and close to closing. Decided to take steps to re-evaluate our status and overall club agenda. Course of action was to elect new officers of which one, the president, would over ride the bylaws for one year (he was elected after that for one two year term) to save the club. He made changes that over the last 3 years not only saved our club but refurbished our rental hall and put over 53k in our savings. Now he is no longer president after one term. Came in did what needed done then let the members take over and run the club under the rules of our bylaws...


So what we need is one year of work, relaxed no pushing or time table, to set our agenda.
This will take volunteers and unless anyone else wants to do this part, I'll create a list and what is offered by those who volunteer after receiving the names via email sent to: owner@beardbuster.com

Hi guys...whoever starts this...first thing you want to do is get with the IRS and file for a Non-Profit status and number. This gets you recognized as an "Official" group in the eyes of everyone. Other benefits...allows to charge membership, accept donations, gives you a Federal ID# so you can run raffles, gives discounts on bulk mail with post office etc...there's others as well. Without it...collecting funds from anyone is illegal.

Can anyone check on the above? I am super busy at this time of year especially since I decided to return to work after a very short retirement... If only this started a few months ago...
If nobody can I'll look into it...

Now we need a name and one that will also have a domain name available for later use... we prob want to be known as an organization thus .org or dot org is what we'd really like...
Here is what is open along the lines spoken to date
ohiocatfish.org
nationalcatfish.org
uscatfish.org

Now start-up funds needed at some point down the road are:
domain name $12.00
website server $9.99 a month
or free if we get non-profit status

Do Commercial Fishing Bans Help Catfish Anglers?
In 1992, the Missouri Department of Conservation banned commercial catfishing on the Missouri River. The ban was imposed out of concern that commercial anglers were catching too many big catfish. The department wanted to give recreational fishermen a better chance.
Since the ban, the catch of flathead, channel and blue catfish increased at most points on the river. The biggest change noted was in the number and size of flathead catfish. The harvest of flatheads had more than doubled at some sites by 1998, and the fish that anglers caught were longer.
Most anglers agreed the fishing had improved. In a Conservation Department survey, 87 percent of anglers knew about the commercial fishing ban, and 92 percent supported it. Of the anglers who fished the river prior to 1992, 77 percent said the angling had improved.

We need one person to contact Missouri Department of Conservation for a copy of their regulations and any other information they can provide on same.

Now I have a spellcheck and would like anyone who is going to contact anyone for this cause to PLEASE post your letter here first so we can all critque it and we can even create another thread to vote on if its ready to send or not like it is..
SOUND GOOD?


Ok anyone? Comments? Suggestions?

[DavidWS10]

I propose that we name our organization the Ohio Catfisherman's Society. I further propose that we grab ohiocats.com or .org for our domain name on the internet.

Hey Bob, can you give me some direction on obtaining the necessary documentation for the tax-exempt status with the IRS?

[atrkyhntr]

Ohiocats sounds like kittens kind of to me... leading some to come to the websites under false pretence "maybe"...

I have created more then a few websites and one network and know this much when choosing a domain name you need to choose a name that also will be included in all your meta tags for better search engine listings.

An example would be my guide service BeardBuster Guide Service where if you type in the keyword beardbuster 99% of the search engines will show my guide service thus if anyone ever searches for ohiocats or ohio cats it may lead to a feline area of the search engines directory...
I am always open to anyones thoughts...

Infact let me do a search now using some keywords on MSN


ohio cats list:

WEB DIRECTORY SITESABOUT

Ohio State University - Obesity Therapy for Dogs and Cats

Ohio - Cat Orchids

WEB PAGESABOUT

STOP the barbaric, inhumane killing of Akron, Ohio's cats, NOW! Petition

Buy MEOW!: Ohio Cats in History, Mystery, Trivia, Legend, Lore & More! (Carole Marsh Ohio Books) at Amazon.com

Theater Mania.com - Central Ohio - Cats

Southern Ohio Animal Rescue-finding homes for dogs and cats

lib-web-cats

Theater Mania.com - Central Ohio - Cats - Aronoff Center

siamese cats

Siamese breeders michigan, siamese cats and siamese breeders ohio

ohiocat fish list :
Ohio History Central - Channel Catfish

WEB PAGESABOUT

Ohio Game & Fish - Ohio's Top 10 June Catfish Hotspots

Ohio Game & Fish - Ohio's Markland Pool Catfish

Ohio Catfish: , Article Posted: July 10, 2000

Meet catfish in Dayton Ohio @ AmericanSingles.com - 'romantic, easygoing, aerospace'

Santee Cooper Cats - CatfishUSA presents the Ohio (OH) State Catfish Records.

Ohio Game & Fish - Ohio's Top 10 June Catfish Hotspots

Record Ohio Catfish Catch

Buy Catfish and Calliopes: Growing Up Along the Ohio River at Amazon.com

Catch a HUGE Ohio Flathead Catfish at gofishohio.com - Your Premier Ohio Fishing Site!



I like this name:

Ohio Catfisherman's Society.

Hey its a start we're talking LOL :D

[MISFIT]

you took the words right out of my mouthOhio Catfisherman's Society.guess great minds think alike;) that was the second name that came to my mind before i got to your post.

my statement about someone other than a catfisherman was just kinda thrown out there as something to think about.in other words,a dedicated multi-species fisherman with the same concerns for catfish as a "diehard cat man",with the knowledge and ability to organize and lead others in the right direction.but there are a couple people i can think ofoffhand,that i think would be great at that level,and are dedicated catmen,with a vast knowledge and love of the sport of catfishing.some like that would be the best choice in my opinion.

[mrfish/OH]

Great stuff, again, thanks for the "hint". It's a real compliment, but I'm still working & raising a family & do other volunteer work & of course I fish all the time, every spare minute that's left. I'm reasonably level headed, but, I'm a good "idea man" I can think things thru a little & I can make a point. I'll certainly be very active in this cause, but I'm not going to be the point man. You on the otherhand, have knowledge & experiance much more suited for what's needed. I can be counted on, I'm not going to drop the ball. I'll keep tabs and work in the background similar to what I do now. I was making a hint for you, atrkyhntr, to sort of step up to the plate, and I'd say you already have more/less. I have absolutely no experiance with clubs & things, I do have experiance with in-fighting !
I nominate you to at least start this up and get it headed in the right direction, I'm sure Bob will be instumental as well. You can count on my support and I know others will help. Doc's been at it for years already, and he's friends with all the guides. I'd say let's keep the ball rolling.
I don't think a catman has to be the lead man, so long as there's the support & membership of catmen/women in the ranks as members & letter writers, etc. Jim

[rrbski]

best start is to contact your local friendly IRS agent...they have all the paperwork and the current info. This process goes alot faster if you do it right at the out set....they start asking alot of questions about 'money you took in" and want previous tax returns if you've been organized for awhile.

[BottomBouncer]

I'll check out that Missouri Conservation as well as other organiztions. Maybe I missed it, but do we have a list of people involved so far?

[BottomBouncer]

Okay, it's done. I emailed them asking for a copy of regulations and anything that regards to fishing/fisheries and information regarding catfish/catfishing.

Hopefully they'll send me something, when they do I'll let you guys know.

[DavidWS10]

BB, I don't think we have a definitive list of who is working on this, but I believe that those of us who are active in this thread and helping to develop ideas and conducting research are the ones who are the most involved in this project.

I've toying with some more domain name ideas for a website and I have come up with a couple that are available:

ohiocatfishermen.org
ohiocatfisherman.org

From what I've learned in my workings on the web, a good thing about domain names is to keep them as short as possible yet still having the name alone contain the basic information on what the website is about. My choice from the two listed above is ohiocatfishermen.org.

One more thing, I believe that both Jack and Scott deserve a huge "AttaBoy" from all of us for getting this whole thing started. Thanks, guys.

[Craig Fletcher]

Hey Guys,
Good Read!!! Alot of good ideas floating around.

Just a thought on the name. Although the group will probably be made up of a majority of Catfishermen, My personal thoughts are that if the name reflected something the public in general relates to, there maybe a better chance of soliciting members and funds from outside of the catfish anglers group. Basicly, better public support. support from the general public could possibly lead to substantially better funds. Another point is that if the word OHIO is used in the name, it may alienate people from Kentucky, Tennessee, And Indiana.

I guess what I'm saying is maybe the words catfishing or catfisherman or angler and Ohio should be kept out of the title. I don't know what would be a good name, maybe National Catfish Conservation Society(N.C.C.S.) or North American Catfish Organization(N.A.C.O.) I'm sure you guys get the idea.

Just my .02 Good Luck, Craig

[BottomBouncer]

Wouldn't National or North American take the main focus off of our waterways? I think we should stay focused on the Ohio river and it's tributaries. Then, if all goes well, extend the focus down river, to the Tennessee, Mississippi and beyond.

I agree that "fisherMEN" should be left out, not that this is an issue with me, just to prevent any assumptions or future problems. Ohio should be left out simply because if and When this all works out, what do we do if expansion is an option?

Like any project, you have to do your homework first. Which I think we're getting a decsent start on. Organization IMO is the key to success, on that note we should first figure out where everyone is from and what resources they have, this will also permit us to figure out a place where meetings might take place, similar to the Husky Musky club and other groups.

Does anyone know which states already have regulations and laws involving catfish? Are they listed as a gamefish anywhere?

Here's an idea. Depending on the people we have here and where people are from, maybe we can each, or who ever can, go to local fishing/bait/tackle or outdoors store that sells fishing equipment. Get a first hand look at what they stock and inquire about the demand of catfish equipment and popularity of catfish.

What about Catfish Anglers Association? Has that already been listed?

What do you guys think?

[Craig Fletcher]

Is the goal to protect only the Ohio river and tribs? or all inland Lakes also? I believe, for what that is worth, The organization should be reflective of a national organization, then there could be chapters with names relevant to the region they are in. Ohio River, Cincinati Chapter or Mississippi River, St. Louis Chapter. Southeastern Ohio Inland lakes Chapter. I don't know if this is a good idea or not. If I was to get really involved with something of this nature, I believe it would be beneficial, to have all of the members in a certain region, to have the ability to meet locally and work towards the goals they have for their area, as long as they are in line with the Charter of the National organization. Hope this makes sense. Craig

[atrkyhntr]

hnmn hmmnn hnmnmn

well... hnmn ....

I think we should stay within Ohio for now simply because we have what looks like to be a long hard fight to accomplish what we're after now without any added adventures outside our realm...

Then let the future take us where it will.... :)

Now on to me.... I am not sure I will have the heart, time or resources to lead anyone anywhere at this point and time in my life... I have been seperated from my wife since last Feb. In the morning I'll find out what my child support will be (3 kids) even though we are not devorced yet and that will hap'n, when I have no idea to date. I could not there for commit to anything at this time... SORRY :(

[DavidWS10]

I think we should stay within Ohio for now simply because we have what looks like to be a long hard fight to accomplish what we're after now without any added adventures outside our realm...

I agree with this idea. I believe it would be much easier to start out with a more localized organization working towards a localized agenda than to go national from the onset. Don't misunderstand me, I believe a National organization with local chapters will ultimately be a necessity as the movement to get catfish listed as a game fish grows. I simply believe that because we are a local group of individuals who are presently working towards accomplishing a local goal, we should remain a more localized organization. Hopefully through what we are attempting to accomplish here in Ohio, individuals in other states/regions will take up the cause in their respective areas; paving the way for a National organization.

[flathunter]

Fellas, I am slowly learning behind the scenes that it will take someone who will lead who can devote a whole lot of time money and effort to this cause......I fear non of us have this resourse right now?:(

[flathunter]

aturkyhntr...I feel for you, I have been there done that....Not a pleasant experience:(

[rrbski]

The CAG started as an Illinois based organization...but they registered as a National group...Illinois is still over half the membership and their views are well on the way to being supported by the state DNR. It was this national group forming that got Infisherman interested in helping us publisize the organization... Anyone remember the monthly Catfish Insider...said they didn't have the readership to support it as a monthly publication. It's going to break one of these days and they want it too...how much publicity and support do you think a National catfish organization would receive from InFisherman...I'd venture to say a lot. It would not detract from the Ohio Chapter's goal for the waters of Ohio...you get 2 members from Ky and you now have a KY Chapter to start from their end....IN....WV....to effect the OHIO R....you'll need them all. Anywho...just a thought.

[atrkyhntr]

Fellas, I am slowly learning behind the scenes that it will take someone who will lead who can devote a whole lot of time money and effort to this cause......I fear non of us have this resourse right now?

no No NO... do not let this undermine what we can do... Money is a non-issue PLEASE belive me there... we're talking grassroots here... a start not a start to finish... that will come in time... our cost to start-up are so minimal that several of us can take this on and not even feel a prick let alone a pinch in the pocketbook...

What I have listed in the previous post is not needed now but at some point will be:
domain name $12.00
website server $9.99 a month
or free if we get non-profit status

If we have 12 guys kickin a buck each we have our domain name and another buck each month and we have our server for our website... thats my friends is pennies ;)

Now if we need forms and such I can make a webpage up with printable forms that can be printed right off our website including anything we would like to pass out to tackle shops and better then that catfishing tournaments!!! and such... That we can handle too easy :D


Our name is easy too... keep it simple and to the point.. I am not saying we can't name it anything with a national ring just lets work on Ohio 1st thats all... the future will take care of itself ;)

I also think this should be statewide too not just the Ohio river and tribs... Lake Erie is something that we should stray from for now simply because that is another creature all to itself when oyur talking Canada too :eek:

[DavidWS10]

Although I don't personally have the money that may be necessary for this endeavor to get off the ground, I do have the time and energy available. Yet I do believe the money situation will work itself out. However, I don't believe that I possess the knowledge necessary for me to feel qualified to lead this group. All I ask of everyone right now is to not become disheartened and give up before we really get started. As atrkyhntr has previously and correctly stated, this is going to be a lengthy process, requiring a lot of patience from everyone.

And Bob, I hadn't looked at this operation from the viewpoint you just presented. I'm starting to wonder if maybe we shouldn't follow C.A.G.'s lead, taking on a national moniker while working towards a local goal. That is definitely an idea worthy of everyone's thoughts. I'm actually wondering if Catfish Anglers Society wouldn't be an appropriate name.

[catslayer]

i dont have a whole lot of time to spare. but i could donate every month to help with costs.

[rrbski]

Attached is a pic that might motivate ya a bit more.

Bud Yancey (then CAG pres) was honored for his efforts in Humanitarian Service presented Jan 17, 2001 by the Chicagoland Fishing, Hunting and Outdoors Show. Buds selection was by the Chicagolands Outdoor writers. Bud, shown on the right, stands next to Brent Manning, IL DNR Director. The IL DNR through their Fisheries Division and Bob Williamson, has been our strong and consistent ally since the early years of the CAG.

http://www.fishingworks.com/Users/UserFolders/rrbski/PhotoImages/budaward2001.jpg

Ever wonder why all our Ohio Carp In's are held at State Parks....DNR runs the parks and see's us...they tell me a couple of them will be fishing with us at East Harbor this year....last year when I asked to use East Harbor for carping....they thought it was a joke/funny. By end of the weekend they were 'hooked." Believe me....selling the catfish will be lots easier than selling the carp.

The biggie will be patience on the part of membership. You will have a couple folks doing most of the work. At the end of the year many members or new members will start to say..."what's the benefit to ME" for joining/rejoining. Seems then they start wanting a $10 belt buckle and many other things for their dues. At this early stage just remember what the goal is...and most members biggest contribution to the cause....will be maintaining currency in their membership...it's the numbers that speak. You're not doing this for a free buckle and a magazine from the organization....you're doing this to protect your trophy fish.....that aspect gets lost very soon after the first year ends. The CAG has been around for 10 years now...progress is slow...but the friends and fun you have along the way is well worth the effort.

[atrkyhntr]

I can't take the point at this time... almost was going to... had it typed in but I must make sure of what I can and can't do after this pending devorce I will go thru....:(

Hows this for starters??? and yes the name can always be changed I was just playing around with some ideas and came up with this one...

http://whitetail.alloutdoorschat.com/images/logo_ncs.gif

http://whitetail.alloutdoorschat.com/images/logo_ncs2.gif

[MadCatter]

I like something like Catfish Preservation Society or something similar .. I feel it must contain 1st the Catfish . 2nd what we are about .. that way it gets attention to our cause without an in depth viewing .. When you see Catfish Preservation .. you basically know what its about before you start reading ....

[BottomBouncer]

Ryan:

No Problem! I'll throw it together and have it in the mail by tomorrow. Thank you for you interested.


*can't remember guys name*
Fisheries editor

This is concerning my request to the Missouri Department of Conservation for all information regarding regulations, fishing/fisheries and informations pertaining to catfish.

It's a start, atleast they didn't say no!

[Wise1]

From a strategic standpoint I would agree with Madcatter on the name, it implies what we are up to as a preservation society.................after all, we want to save them so WE can catch them ourselves Correct???????? To a Non fisherperson looking at our cause ( IE: POLITICIANS), Anglers Society would look rather selfish MAYBE..........I like both society name ideas and I love that Logo with the Flatties,...Great job on that Trkyhnter.........

Just some thoughts for the good of the Flattie cause

[Wise1]

Atrkyhnytrs Fine logo with " FLATHEAD CATFISH PRESERVATION SOCIETY" People that had no clue they were or are in some danger will investigate the cause < ya think??????

[atrkyhntr]

Before we all "P" our pants getting excited over names do me this one favor first...

Replace any other game animal or fish for the name(s)
FLATHEAD CATFISH and then see what it looks like and what it sounds like....
Whitetail Deer PRESERVATION SOCIETY
Smallmouth Bass PRESERVATION SOCIETY
Prarie Dog PRESERVATION SOCIETY
Red Fox PRESERVATION SOCIETY

In my mind it does not sound like a group concerned about flathead catfish fishing availablity per say but a group that will first try to save the flathead then move off to save maybe walleye or large mouth or whatever the flavor of the month is at that time...hmmnmnn
see what I mean???

Also lets do catfish or we'll be leaving out all other catfish people and make ourselves that much less viable to everyone else and our numbers would be cut to a small niche group :(

The Preservation of Big Catfish Society
The Preservation of Catfish Fishing Organization/Society
Maybe along those lines?? LOL I have a headache :D

[mrfish/OH]

I just got caught up on the thread. I like this one:
http://whitetail.alloutdoorschat.com/images/logo_ncs2.gif
In my mind "Preservation" or "Conservation" is something PETA would be involved in vs. sportsmen/women. Not saying it wouldn't work, but it just doesn't catch me, but that's just me too...

Catfish Anglers Society covers the species (catfish), who & what we are ( anglers- covers both genders) and that we are an organization (society) with a purpose. People would look to see what we're about with a name like that. I know I would.
If someone does a search for catfish, the search engines will find us. We could get national support too, and we'll need the support of the states with our borders on the Ohio River eventually. Afterall, ultimately the goal is to get the catfish recognized as a gamefish. I'm sure we'll get support from other states as well.

[atrkyhntr]

flathunter
Can you contact your sister in law the lawer to see if she can get us the needed paper work to complete to become a non-profit?
If she can and then send it to me I'll complete same then send back to her to oversee before we submit.... The submission process takes anywhere from 4-6 months so as everyone can see we have plenty of time to get our agenda down in writing...
If someone knows how to contact flathunter PLEASE do so because I have heard it can cost around $500.00 to have this part looked over by a lawer!!! WOW Thats over my head :(

[BottomBouncer]

So, any ideas on when and where we should have a little get together? HOOTERS.....maybe a bit too distracting:confused: :p

[atrkyhntr]

I don't go to places like that...
to me its like going to dinner but not getting to eat...
just get to look at the food ;)

[BottomBouncer]

lol...........it'll be a while before we can have any sort of fishing type outting or get-together.....itsa bit cold.

I know Gander Mountain has what they call a lodge in the store where groups can have meetings, I believe it is free to use. Pretty nice, large table and plenty of room.

[Wise1]

I suppose you guys are right about the name of the cause...........I just thought about a few things out loud , since this is the time to do it right?..........Anglers society is just fine with me............The only thing I had with Preservation Society is that these Commercial Fisherman may launch a counter effort as well...call themselves legal fishermen........And it may seem to some suit types that we are just bickering about the catfish............

Jim, you may have Inadverdently hit the nail on the head with the PETA types too !! If they read about netters dragging in loads of cats and dragging them off to another lake to be hooked over and over again, they may get behind a "preservation " effort..............I think that this effort is going to take a ton of lobbying etc etc, and to get it to the Statehouse in Columbus will take a TON of backers....But Ill bet it really can be done.

......seems like pointing out the bad points of netting is great start.

Its a great cause guys, whatever I can do to help out...........

great Logo too, those flat cats against the US map set it off nice :D

[Wise1]

Where abouts is Gander Mountain??

S

[BottomBouncer]

Maybe this is a dumb question, but how did other species get labeled as game fish?

[atrkyhntr]

Well sorry but those are bottom feeders from my fish tank... Do they really look like flats???? hmmnn LOL ;)

There are few Ganders all over the state and a couple up here in NE Ohio for sure ...

[BottomBouncer]

There are several in Ohio, two in the Columbus area. One in Reynoldsburg the other in Hilliard. Others in the Canton area and Toledo.

[MadCatter]

OK guys are am going to get real unpopular here ... This has turned into a get all catfish classified as gamefish cause ... I thought we started out just to get the Flathead classified ..

If you group all catfish in to this catagory you are going to have major problems .. first .. You cant sell game fish, you are going to take catfish out of all resturants .. farm rasied or not .. you are going to take them out of supermarkets ... The reason you don't walk down to your local supermarket and buy some bass filets, is because they are a gamefish and not allowed to be sold. Also you are talking yellow bellies, bullheads .. which we all know some times take over a lake and have to be eradicated .. You might get some support on this thread for all catfish being put on the list, but out in the real world I don't think its going to happen... Catfish farms are an up and coming buisness, and are actually taking some of the pressure of the wild ones... The only reason you can buy walleye and perch is that they are taken out of lake erie or other places where its legal to commercially harvest them ..

I think we need to rethink this idea... I don't think you can show any major harm being done to the channel cat by over fishing ... Just my opinion ... I have said it ... Flame me if you must

[Wise1]

Atrkyhntr? IS it ok if we type in ATR for your name? LOL:D

NE ohio is where youre from? Im origiannly from North Canton, O-hio.........Home of Kames LOL

[Wise1]

Was under the impression that we were basically going after the reclassification of the Flathead...........Maybe a bit of confusion, but I think most guys on this thread are on the same channel here..........................was that a bad choice of words? :D :D :D

[atrkyhntr]

Wise1
My name stands for a turkey hunter which is how I started my guide service by guiding for turkey ;)
I was born in SW PA and moved to NE Ohio only cause I was dragged screaming and crying behind my parents LMAO
But I adjusted and now am proud to be from Ohio and rooting the buckeyes and browns on ...
you can type Clyde if thats easier LOL



MadCatter
Oh yea we're only after the flats and blues but... and hear me out I have been involved in a few negotiations in the past...

As a catfish society we look to be pushing all catfish which puts a bigger scare into commercial fisherman and also in a round about way lets us put more members into the arena.

Now hear me out... many catfisherman are concerned over lack of quality fishing in the inland lakes where there is no commercial fishing going on, I belive. So we can work on two fronts and help all catfisherman... Stop the commercial fishing or slow it down on the Ohio river and have the state also begin stocking programs and such to help the inland lakes anf their cat populations, We need creel limits and maybe slot lenghts too...
But we have alot of time to work on those agendas...
The more members we have the bigger we are and look which is what you need to accomplish anything....


Let me add with this edit... I belive that if only flathead fisherman are involved then there will not be enough membership or interest statewide!!! It can be done on a statewide level but I am not sure when all that would be involved is mostly the SW section of the state... THINK???

[MadCatter]

I would hate to see a good organized effort to same the flathead go down in flames because it was blanket classified with all catfish... To me the plan you are suggesting will create more enemies than allies

Atrkyhntr ... I have fished for catfish for most of my life, I don't believe that anyone is all that concerned about the channel cats populations .... The state already has stocking plans in effect. The Blue cat ... in ohio is protected .. That is much better than being a gamefish ... To classify it would be a step down. The channel cat grows and reproduces at a much faster rate then the flathead and is much more abundant...

[Wise1]

Your website is cool too, I checked that out a ways back........:D

If anything is to come of this effort, its probably best to just get it all out in the open now, to see how it goes........that would be better than it becoming divided down the road .....

I wish there was a better way to get info on why// HOW a fish is classified Gamefish..........The Internet searches dont really give you good info..............It probably would take talking with a Columbus ODNR guy to really find out..........02 cents for now

I believe the old standards were based on popularity and that weighed heavily in the naming of Gamefish.

[MadCatter]

The flathead is distributed statewide ... I don't believe we need an overwhelming number of particpants ... I think all we have to do is provide some evidence that there is a legitimate harm being done to the flathead populations on a state wide basis due to no regulations being imposed on the fish ... This should be somewhat eaiser on us for the simple reason that there are now states that have already taken steps to protect them and the studies have already been done .. we might not have access to them but the ODNR does. I don't believe we need to fight the ODNR, I believe they are are allies, we just need to present them with the right evidence in the proper manner. Now getting all catfish classified is going to be much harded IMO .. Everybody is wanting to get petitons and the like . which I agree is a good start, but sooner or later you are going to have to come across with some facts .. I don't feel the facts are there for blanket coverage for all catfish... Am I the only one that feels this way?

[riverjet]

Hi everybody. Im new on this block.Flathunter pointed me here.
I support catfish as a gamefish. I think they would have to be regulated by individual species. Flats,channels, bullheads etc. I
don't fish the ohio river much, but i have worked in bait stores that cater to both paylakes and river catmen. I knew, but never
thought about where those paylake fish come from. I,m sorry to say, but we sponsored local catfish tournaments a few times a year. We kept all weighed in fish. Those fish were then sold to paylakes. I never thought about it at the time. The pictures looked great on the wall, but in the long run i'm positive it hurt the business more than help it. I fish the same waters that these
fish came from. I haven't caught a 30lb in 2 years and i fish every weekend 6 months a year. Has anyone started a poll in any of the bait stores? I think it would get the average catman thinking
about whats going on in his fishing waters. Word of mouth is a strong thing. hopefully the more people that know, the better chance it will have.
riverjet

[BottomBouncer]

I think before anything happens we need to all get on the same page as far as what cats are involved, who wants to be involved, name..........personally I think all cats should be included. Better to take care of a problem before it happens. How about we put these issues to a vote?

Name

species(flattie or all cats)

Atleast get this part out of the way so we can move on.....

[MadCatter]

If we are voting one by one as I understand the last post ..


Flathead only

[MadCatter]

Riverjet ... I really don't think alot of fishermen realize where the big cats come from and just how many are taken and put into pay lakes ... And the worst part is, when the big cats go belly up in the summer due to lack of oxygen or stress from being caught everytime it eats ... They just fork out some more cash and buy another one ... What a waste. These fish were not intended to live under such conditions. I wonder just exactly how many paylakes private and state run .. believe it or not, our state stocks some of its state run paylakes with Flatheads too .. all the Hamilton County park lakes have stocked Flats.... and what kills me is they also stock blues ... which are supposed to be freakin protected in Ohio ...:mad: :mad: :mad: If you or I were to get caught with a protected species in our possession we would be in deep ______. I think this goes a long way is showing just how little the state regards it own rules, and even less regard for the fish that they are supposed to be PROTECTING .... Gotta quit .. I am starting to rant

[DavidWS10]

MadCatter, I'm not sure I agree with your statement concerning the channel cats population not being a problem. Jack made a statement in another thread that to him, any channel over 10# was a big one. In my mind, that represents a problem. I realize that a 20# channel cat is a trophy caliber fish, but I can remember when I was a kid watching my dad, grandfather and uncle pull out stringer-loads of channel cats over 20# in one outting. So today, when a 10#er is considered a big fish, I have to think there is a fishery problem. However, I will concede this, while the channel cat may not grow to be as large as a flathead or a blue, it will reach its largest size potential quicker that a flat or a blue. I had a channel cat in one of my aquariums and it outgrew my largest tank in less than 6 months (it grew from a 4" fry into a 10" young adult during that time). Maybe with channel cats the object wouldn't be to get it classified as a game fish, but instead have number and size limits set into place. But this is just my opinion.

[MadCatter]

I am not saying that the channel cat and other species don't deserve or need protecting ... I am just saying that it is going to be much much harder to get it accomplished than just the flathead.. IMO if we try to fight this battle right now .. we will lose, and the Flathead .. which need attention right now, it has really needed it for years .. will suffer a set back. I thought this tread was about the flathead ... As I have already posted .. the blue cat is protected .. and as it has been pointed out to me in a PM I got .. the ODNR basically denies it exists in OH waters outside of a few miles of the Ohio river ... If you guys think that we can take on our own fishermen friends that like to eat catfish.. take on the catfish farming industry .. take on the resturant industry .. take on the supermarkets that sell these fish ... Cause you have to remember by ohio law it is Illegal to sell GAMEFISH period ... I see a political quagmire that is going to be long and drawn out with unforseen comprimises .. that might include giving up the ohio river protection for flatheads .. you never know what will happen when the bargining begins ... I will stand with you, because I feel it is important that something be done before it is too late ... I say first choose a battle that can be won, before attmepting to win the war .. I feel the flathead should be the first step, because it should be the easiest, alot of lessons will be learned ... If success is acheived then we can more forward to the rest ...

[DavidWS10]

I agree, one fish at a time - flatheads first.

[riverjet]

Madcatter, didn't mean to get you fired - up. I just don't think the
average catman realize the consequenses of takeing out those big fish. I's kind of a innocence ignorancts. commercial netter .
That's another story. Does anybody have any growth rates for
Ohio flatheads. I have some in a book ,but their for the south. I agree with Davidwsio. (Hope I typed your name right. Sorry if not. ) Size limits are important. I like slot limits myself. Example:
Protect all channels from 15'' - 24'' only 1 over 24. this lets people
take some home for the table and protects breeder fish. That still leaves a chance for a Trophy. I use this same thought on fish i want for the table.I've never caught a bluecat in Ohio. I have on Santee Cooper. I've ran into alot of people who think a male channel is a bluecat. Sometimes i told them the truth and sometimes i told them it was protected, they better put it back ...

Riverjet

[cwcarper]

Classifying channel catfish as a gamefish won't make it illegal for restaurants or supermarkets to sell them, as long as it's specified that they are farm raised, or if they came from somewhere that commercial fishing was legal (which is why it is legal to stock private ponds/paylakes with bluecats since they come from somewhere they are not protected). Farm/fishery raised fish fall under a different classification, or else you wouldn't be allowed to buy largemouth bass, bluegill, etc. to stock your ponds.

This said, however, targeting channel cats as well might alienate a lot of the people we need to support the issue. Lots more people harvest channel cats than flatheads, and they are probably going to be less willing to accept changes that put limits on channel cats, even if they are reasonable.

[mrfish/OH]

I'd like to see all cats protected. What's wrong with a 8 or 10 fish limit ? A combined bag of flats & channels? How many fish are enough fish to harvest in one day? That's still 56 or 70 fish in one week.
Farm raised fish are exempt already. They have rainbow trout in a tank at Jungle Jim's where you pick your fresh fish, they have stripers, and hybrid stripers in the fish case on ice too. If LM bass were tasty, I bet they'd have them too, they have shad !! Catfish in the market are farm raised, if not, you better hope they aren't from the Ohio River where the commercial fisherman net. They are on the consumption advisory not to eat unless under 14" I think.
I don't see why catfisherman wouldn't support a reasonable limit. It's to their benefit, 10 fish at 5-10 lbs yeilds more meat than 20 3 - 5 lb. fish. Who's catching & keeping more than that anyway? Maybe I'm in the dark here. I'm not seeing huge numbers of channel cats caught. Most limits are imposed to protect the species when they are most vunerable. When they go in feeding binges in the fall or spring. The pre-spawn bite. If not for limits, too many fish would be taken then. Most other times of the year, limits are had to catch. I've seen the WB population hurt bad a Caesar's Creek Lake. Used to be able to catch 20-30 fish in a couple of hours from April to June, now you're lucky to catch 10 all day.
I guess we need another poll ?
Madcatter.....I disagree with your statement "I am just saying that it is going to be much much harder to get it accomplished than just the flathead" I'm not going to flame you either sorry-;)
Think the channel cat anglers will support this. We'll need alot of support. It raises the channels & flats to gamefish status, adding value to them, both the fish & the anglers. I bet alot of channel cat anglers would like to catch larger fish too.

[flathunter]

Turkyhunter..I have contacted my sister in law who is an atourny.......She really had nothing good to say about what we want to do....In fact she told me that something like that would end up costing us thousands of dollars in legal fees, her words were tens of thousands of dollars???????..I dont know if she is correct on this or not????

[atrkyhntr]

Hey flathunter...
THANKS but she is mis-informed... I have contacted a lawer who said to simply look over the forms would range from $200-$500 depending on the lawer... I know I can't foot the bill and thats another story LOL :D

MadCatter...
If you don't lump together other catfish species then, in my experience, your in for a fight you won't have the backing to win.
Flatheads may be spread statewide but their fan base is along the Ohio river, at least in my mind 75% of that base or more...

I think what you'll need is the support of those who fish the Ohio River Basin and the many tournaments held thoughout this state. To get that support you'll need more then the members of this forum and gofshohio...

Maybe you should start another thread with a poll asking which way do the masses wish to go? Just flatheads or all catfish...

[atrkyhntr]

It looks like we don't have the possible member support to go non-profit which means the only other alterniative is to go grassroots.... which simply is form opinions and the means to get those opinions out to the puplic examples would be flyers in bait/tackle shops and post on forums such as this one...

Below are the steps and links explaining each to creating a non-profit... I don't have the time and certainly wouldn't start one for just one species of catfish which would benifit a few when compared to the masses that would benifit from an all out catfish policy....

File the certificate of incorporation
http://fdncenter.org/learn/classroom/establish/page01.html

Select individuals to serve on the board of directors
http://fdncenter.org/learn/classroom/establish/page02.html

Develop vision and mission statements
http://fdncenter.org/learn/classroom/establish/page03.html

Establish bylaws and board policies
http://fdncenter.org/learn/classroom/establish/page04.html

Obtain an employer identification number (EIN)
http://fdncenter.org/learn/classroom/establish/page05.html

Open a bank account and establish check signing procedures
http://fdncenter.org/learn/classroom/establish/page06.html

File for federal tax exemption
http://fdncenter.org/learn/classroom/establish/page07.html

Follow state and local nonprofit regulations
http://fdncenter.org/learn/classroom/establish/page08.html

Find office space and obtain office equipment
http://fdncenter.org/learn/classroom/establish/page09.html

Recruit staff and prepare a personnel manual
http://fdncenter.org/learn/classroom/establish/page10.html

Establish a payroll system and procure necessary insurance coverage
http://fdncenter.org/learn/classroom/establish/page11.html

Develop an overall fundraising plan
http://fdncenter.org/learn/classroom/establish/page12.html

Hope someone can help you guys out with the flatheads !!!

[mrfish/OH]

Just got this in the email today.

Jim:

The two distinct "groups" of fish by law in Ohio are "commercial fish" (Ohio
Revised Code) and "forage fish" (Ohio Administrative Code). A "third" group
could be considered all those fish that do not fall into the commercial or
forage groups. The difference between groups has to do with how the fish
can be harvested. Obviously commercial fish can be taken with commercial
fishing gear. Forage fish can be taken by means such as bowfishing,
snagging, and seining, with some restrictions. While you will see phrases
such as "sport fish" and "game fish" used occasionally, they do not exist by
definition in Administrative or Revised Code in Ohio. Flathead catfish fall
into the commercial fish category, along with other species such as yellow
perch, channel catfish, and white bass. The category of commercial however,
only applies to the Lake Erie fishing district. Commercial fishing is not
permitted outside of Lake Erie in Ohio. So for all practical purposes,
flatheads fall into the third (other than commercial or forage) category for
the remainder of the state.

As far as regulations for sport anglers go, the category (commercial,
forage, other) that a fish falls into is irrelevant. Regulations for sport
anglers focus on species that these folks tend to target. It would not make
a lot of sense to place bag or length limits on fish that aren't fished for.
The regulations are based upon biological information collected for each
species, and the effect that angling and harvest have on that particular
species. Regulations are not based upon whether the species is stocked,
reproduces naturally, or falls into a certain category. For example,
channel catfish are stocked in many Ohio lakes, but there are no
restrictions on harvest. Largemouth bass are not stocked, and regulations
exist statewide. In the case of flathead catfish, petitioning the state to
classify it as a sport species would not have any effect on management. The
reasons being that no "sport" category exists, and that regulations are
driven by biological data and not some kind of classification system. To
date, no compelling evidence has been collected that indicates flathead
catfish are being over-harvested in Ohio's waters.


Here's my original letter to them.....

Jim at mrfish@____

My question is about catfish. I would like to know why they aren't
classified as a gamefish? It seems I've seen surveys where catfish & bass
always are the 2 top targeted species. Bass are protected with a size &
creel limit, while OH cats aren't. IN has a 10 catfish limit.
There are commercial fisherman netting the wild cats from the Ohio River
& selling them to paylakes. I think it would be much wiser to develope
the Ohio River into a great catfishing and striper fishery like SC has
done with the Santee Cooper area. Guides and resort areas abound there.
We could have the same thing in the Ohio River with the help of KY & IN.
No more commercial netting, classify them as a gamefish. No netting of LM
& SM bass, or stripers etc, so why allow it with cats? If there was a
creel limit ( 8-10 fish) and a limit of one fish over say 30" kept per day
we could have a world class fishery.
Marinas, guides, tackle, boat repair, restaurants, motels, etc would all
benefit. Especially in small towns hard hit with no industry.
The ODNR would get more money from sales of non-resident licenses & guide
licenses to make up for the loss of comercial fishing licenses.
Back to my original question, what would have to be done to get some
sort of movement towards classifying them as a gamefish? Petitions?
Lawsuits? Could a survey on license forms be issued ?
I belong to several internet fishing forums. There is certainly support
to have catfish protected as a gamefish. Apparantly Texas did this a few
years ago, and SC has begun a writing campaign to their govenor there.
They are removing fish by the barrelful from "our" Ohio River. Also why
are bluecats - an endanged species- allowed to be used in paylakes? What
about stocking bluecats in out lakes?
I wanted to touch a few bases, and get some input on catfish in Ohio.
The ODNR has been doing a good job with the saugeyes, etc. It's time to
bring the cats into protection too.
Thank you, Jim

[mrfish/OH]

Does it mean there's not enought flatheads to fish for to know if they're overharvested or not ?
Also looks like the commercial fisherman in the Ohio River are NOT licensed by Ohio. They must be under KY & IN jurisdiction.
So if the thrust is to the Ohio River fishery...it would fall on KY & IN & OH & WV to have some sort of agreement ??
In other words, catfish, channels & flatheads can be kept at any number and any size anywhere in the state of Ohio. Is this what we want? I know I've heard that trotlines can wipe out a section of smaller rivers & creeks real fast. So no limits on channels might change some minds real quick when someone puts them in your fishing hole. It's perfectly legal now.....anyone with an Ohio license can put out their limb lines, and trotlines as it stands.
Here's the regulations.....does anyone fish where these are permited? Could 3 trotlines with 50 hooks could put a damper on your stream? With unlimited harvest?
Setlines or Banklines - Setlines or Banklines may be used to catch turtles and fish. The name and address of the user must be attached to each line. The maximum is 50 lines, each having a single hook. Treble hooks may not be used. The lines must be attached to the shore above water, but not to a boat, dam, dock, pier, pole, rod, or wall. No more than six set or banklines may be used in public waters of the state of Ohio less than 700 surface acres. All lines must be checked once every 24 hours. All lines must be removed after completion of use.

Trotlines - Trotlines must be marked with the name and address of the user. Trotlines must be anchored. Wire or cable may not be used. Not more than three trotlines are permitted in any one body of water in the Inland Fishing District. Not more than 50 hooks per trotline are permitted in any tributary of Lake Erie. Trotlines may not be used within 1,000 feet downstream of any dam. Trotlines may be used only in (1) streams; (2) Mosquito Lake north of the causeway and south of a line of buoys designating the wildlife refuge; (3) Charles Mill Lake north of St. Rt. 430; (4) Clendening Lake east of St. Rt. 799; (5) Seneca Lake south of St. Rt. 147; (6) Tappan Lake above the gas line causeway and St. Rt. 646; (7) Atwood Lake north and east of St. Rt. 542 north at Dellroy; (8) Piedmont Lake in sections 11 and 12 of Kirkwood Township; (9) Wills Creek Lake except in the area directly in front of the Muskingum Watershed Conservancy District boat landing; (10) that part of Berlin Lake lying south and west of St. Rt. 225; (11) the inland part of Sandusky Bay commonly called Mud Creek Bay; and (12) the area of Grand Lake St. Marys bounded on the west by Prairie Creek, on the east by Big Chickasaw Creek, and on the north by a line of buoys extending east to west between Big Chickasaw and Prairie creeks. Trotlines may not be set in channels or across the mouths of channels or streams in Grand Lake St. Marys. A special trotline license is required in the Lake Erie Fishing District. This license may be obtained at the Sandusky Fisheries Research Unit, 305 East Shoreline Drive, Sandusky, Ohio 44870 (Phone # 419-625-8062).
DNR setlines, etc, regulations link (http://www.ohiodnr.com/wildlife/fishing/fishregs/setbanktrot.htm)

[mrfish/OH]

Looks like you can put up to 50 of them most anywhere? Seems funny you are restricted to only 2 rods !:eek:

[MISFIT]

i found a couple of questionable statements in their answer,firstRegulations for sport
anglers focus on species that these folks tend to target. It would not make
a lot of sense to place bag or length limits on fish that aren't fished for.does this mean sport anglers don't tend to target catfish?:confused: i can't believe that one:rolleyes: second For example,
channel catfish are stocked in many Ohio lakes, but there are no
restrictions on harvest. Largemouth bass are not stocked, and regulations
exist statewide.another puzzling statement:confused: .they stock trout also,but have limits on them,so where's the difference?and from the sounds of it,they don't stock flatheads,so based on there reasoning for limits on bass,why not limits on flatheads?:confused: :confused: sounds more like political double talk in a way.does anyone else see the contradictions that i do?and if biological research/evidence is a basis for limits,then apparently they need to put some effort into that,concerning flatheads.

[BottomBouncer]

I caught that too Rick. Sounds like they think no one fishes for flatheads, or even knows of their existance in our waterways.

I'm sure we can prove that wrong.

Anyone know of a lawyer that is an outdoorsman.....maybe cut us a break? I know one, not necessarily an outdoorsman, but he deals with workers comp. Do all lawyers know the basics about this stuff?

[BottomBouncer]

I just remembered something. I not sure if it is significant or not. While working at Gander we had a guy from one of the hatcheries come in for some demo thing. Afterwards we were talking and I asked him if they kept or stocked flatheads. He said that they had flatheads a while back, but refused to tell me what they did with them or used them for.

Anyone have any idea what they were or could have been doing with them? This guys was from one of the state run hatcheries(are they all state run?).....so they had some sort of plan(s) for the flatties that didn't work out?

[mrfish/OH]

I don't know why they wouldn't stock flatheads. Maybe they were raising some for paylakes or for ponds, lakes. Flatheads are used to control panfish in ponds. If you have too many, they become stunted, the flats can control the populations.

As for the official view, it seems that there just may not be enough flathead fisherman making their thoughts known. Or I should say catfish anglers, to the state.
Maybe a line of questions as to how many is a healthey population, what are the sizes? I know they do shock studies all the time. How to flatheads stack up ? Where are the results of those tests ??
What is a normal amount of time to catch a quality flathead? Can anglers reasonably expect to catch an "unlimited" amout each time they fish for them ? What sizes are considered normal ? Five, ten , twenty pounds, etc? I think most bass fisherman can reasonably expect to catch a few bass nearly everytime they fish for them, most channel cat fisherman do too. Musky anglers don't, flathead anglers don't.
I'm just thinking out loud-so to speak. Just throwing out some seeds to grow.

[DavidWS10]

Jim, as you well know, I fish the GMR most of the time (same spot most of the time as well) and I caught just 1 flathead during all of last year. And I guess I caught about 20 channel cats during all of last year also. The truth be told, despite having been out fishing maybe 10 times since our September get-together at Tanners Creek, I haven't caught any cats since I fished with Davedacat at our outting. I realize that catfish are a "warm water fish," but all of the times I was out, the water wasn't so cold where I shouldn't have been catching fish, and especially from a hole that was productive all summer.

I know that Hamilton County has stocked some large flatheads in Miami Whitewater Forest: they posted pictures in the boathouse. But as for the state, I can't say. Until recently, I hadn't been tracking what the state's fisheries department was doing.

[MadCatter]

DavidSW10 I haven't caught any cats since I fished with davedacat Seems Like a lot of people have that problem after fishing with davedacat:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

Jim .. I just don't like the sound of the reply you got, seems like the concensus is that catfish don't matter and that no one fishes for them ... I think we may need to come up with some kind of document, listing our concerns, listing the names of other states that have listed catfish as a game fish... and point out that the ODNR's current stand on catfish is out dated and potentially harmful to the species in todays world. Also I am wondering just how far up the letter got .. did it get to a secretary or someone with authority and if this in fact is a legitimate representation of the ODNR's veiws of the situation. Right now I am kind of swamped ... This weekend if I have time I will try to write up a rough draft of what I think we need to say ... can anyone get a list of states that consider catfish .. or the flathead a game fish.. Post it on here where we can tweak a little and see if we can come up with something presentable

Anyone have any thoughts on that idea

[BottomBouncer]

We're one of 5 or so states that still does not allow concealed carry........I doubt bringing up other states in the issue will do little good.......not to say it isn't worth a try........

[mrfish/OH]

I think if it can be shown that other states imposed limits, etc and the fishing IMPROVED it would be in our favor. Also if there's any documentation where they aren't protected, thier fishery is bad, or worse than it was. That way a correllation can be drawn that protection will indeed improve the numbers, and size of catfish caught. Thus better utilizing our resources for the benifit of our anglers.

How about Virgina ? They have the James River- maybe the best fishery for bluecats in the world? ( Yeah- we're going fishing there & to Clarksville too !)

[flathunter]

I am sending an email to the odnr now stating I do fish for flatheads with rod and reel, lets all do the same????

[flathunter]

I am sending an email to the odnr now stating I do fish for flatheads with rod and reel, lets all do the same????

[catslayer]

i sent one also every little bit has to help.

[cwcarper]

I know studies have been done on portions of the Missouri River where commercial fishing was stopped due to the decline in flathead numbers. Can't remember the figures exactly, but it didn't take long at all for the reports of trophy sized flatheads to increase dramatically after the change. There's plenty of evidence that shows limits and decreased commercial fishing greatly increase both the size and population density of catfish.

The tough part, and what we need to do, is show that some type of limits need to be put in place. Anecdotal information and gut feelings regarding the current trends in catfish/flathead populations probably won't be enough to get things done. But, if we can show that there is an overwhelming interest in protecting these species, and that catfish are a major sport/trophy fish here in Ohio, this will definately help the cause. Still just putting my thoughts out there, though -- I don't have any solutions to the problems.

[BottomBouncer]

I don't think that 4 or 5 of us taking chip shots by emailing the dnr is going to do anything.........if we're going to be a group we need to start acting as one and move at the same time. As many emails that the dnr receives each day.......a handful of ours will get lost in the shuffle.
I noticed the poll over on GFO.......is there anyone over there(that isn't on here) that is in the boat with us?

What about putting a petition in bait shops? What has to be done to get that started? The 20 or so people on here is not enough strength. We can get people's names on paper and research the subject at the same time. When it's done, go at the state and dnr full force........not with bits and pieces.

[mrfish/OH]

I think the more emails they get, the better it is. Then as there's more support, petitions, etc. They will have to say," hey, we got all those emails, etc, etc. Maybe we should do this."

[atrkyhntr]

I think organization is the key... a few emails here and there
(we have had only 17 people post on this thread) will not make a difference but a few 1000 sent all at once draws immediate attention :cool:
That is where we as an organized group can really make a difference:D
Examples of what can be done with minimum resources:
Petition state for creel samples of both anglers and commercial fisherman
Recruitment via email, forum post, flyers in bait/tackle shops, a website for centralization of material and information
campaign agendas towards politicians and committees
possibilities are endless as a group ended alone or with few participating :(

[flathunter]

wish I could be of more help, but working to much right now, just got home at midnight, have to be back at work at 8am, for 16hrs tomorrow:(

[atrkyhntr]

Ok guys we're good to go now...
Catfish Anglers Society is up and running stop on by and lets pull all our resources together for the good of all...
http://www.catfishanglerssociety.com/
or for ease of remembering
http://www.catfishas.com/
Hope to see you there!!!