Carp fishing help

[atrkyhntr]

Please give us newbies some definitions on the terminology you carpers are using maybe a few recipies too ;) :) :D
THANKS in advance...

What do these stand for and or what are they or how to make them:
C.A.G./G.F.O.
Packbaits
boilies
sweet corn and wheaties
prepare and use maize
doughbait concoctions
rejuice it in some "dip

[Caribou Dreamer2]

Nothing will beat wheatie ball for bait simply the best.i have tried all the rest and nothing compares.

[Flatheadmaniac]

I can help you out some..but rrbski is our local expert on this topic and can help you out the most!

C.A.G. = Carp Anglers Group http://www.geocities.com/cyprioman/
Take the time to read ALL the info. on this site..lots of great stuff.

G.F.O.= Go Fish Ohio http://66.216.66.212/forum/
This is one of the biggest message forums on the net.

The C.A.G./G.F.O. stands for a bunch of outtings planned through out the summer that BOTH groups carp anglers will be attending and welcome..along with anyone else that wants to fish them.

Now for the baits, the terms, how to use & prepare them...
Your best bet would be to check out these great sites that will cover all you need to know(also that C.A.G. link above has a ton of that info. too)

Bob(rrbski) web site..http://www.geocities.com/rrbski/fishintro.html
LOTS of great info. on bait making and rigs..also a complete list of the C.A.G./G.F.O. outtings planned for 2003.

Carp Universe...http://www.carpuniverse.com/
This site is a UK site packed full of great info. and pictures too.

Wackerbaits..http://www.wackerbaits.com/
Now this is the biggest and best on-line store for us American carpers, its based out of Chicago, IL.
Also that site will explain ALL the info. you asked about, show you how to use it..and you can order it direct from them..Paul is the owner and is a great very knowlegable gentleman that can help you out with any questions.

Hope this helps?
Scott

[Wise1]

Carp fishing times they are a changin' !!!

Its getting very High Tech...............I like the Slingshot thing I see them use to Chum with.........Now that is too cool

Like Caribou said, a good ole wheatie ball works well........I like to add Garlic salt to mine...seems to do the trick everytime...........................

A Boile? I wont touch that one...........sounds like something ya gotta POP........... :D GROSS...........

[Wise1]

Forgot to add, Good Info post Scott

[Flatheadmaniac]

A boilie, is just like your wheatie ball and other dough baits, but the boilie is BOILED (reason for its name). They are a heck of a lot tougher & harder and wont be lost after catching a fish on them(98% of the time that is) and can be reused to catch more carp.

But you guys are right simple plain canned corn, night crawlers & dough baits like wheatie balls catch a ton of carp..its just hard to convince those carp of that when your setting next to a guy like Bob(rrbski);) whos chumming is all kinds of stuff to attract them to HIS baits..lol;)

Just wondering if some of you knew that HEMP seed is a very great attractor that has even been banned by a lot of UK lakes cause them carp wont feed on anything but that..go figure..lol
Ohio has a hemp plant(factory that is) just south of columbus where you can order all kinds of hemp products like hemp flour, seeds and oil to use in making your own baits. Bob uses cooked hemp seed in a few of his chum baits.

[Wise1]

They like Hemp eh?


Makes my imagination run wild :D :D

[Flatheadmaniac]

guess i should explain a little more;)
Hemp seed bought legally for uses like carp fishing is sold after being treated so it wont GROW..lol
Its a very popular bait in the UK and more and more American carp anglers are finding that it is a strong attractor here too on our carp.
You can order cooked canned hemp seed, uncooked hemp seed, hemp oil through wacherbaits.com i'll try to dig out that link rrbski gave me on the Ohio hempery to.

[Wise1]

I was gonna say maybe perhaps thats why they are always so HUNGRY !!!! LOL


seriously , thats a new one to me for a Carpbait !!!

[Flatheadmaniac]

Heres a list of some used by a lot of carp anglers WORLD WIDE.

Boilies: many kinds depending on your "BASE" mix that you start out with including Fishmeal, Birdseed, ect.

Particles/chum: examples are hempseed, tares, nuts, maise(field corn), canned corn , groats, wheat , Oats, dog & cat food(dry). used to attract carp to your fishing spot(called a "swim" in the UK)they also can be used as a "base" for your boilie/dough bait mix

Other baits that can be used on the hook(hookbait) or as a chum are:
Chick Peas, Butter Beans, Kidney Beans, Black eyed Beans, Red Kidney beans.

Nuts: can be used if ground up as a base for boilies/dough baits, or as hookbaits:
Tiger nuts, Peanuts

Meats: can also be added to chum mixes or fishing on the hook.
Luncheon meats, Sausage/Salami meats, Spam, cat & dog food.

Other baits that can be used are veggies like Boiled Potatoes, green beans, ect.

This is just a short list of the endless baits you can use for carp..and a lot of them can be bought at your local grocery store.
Now a lot of the baits above have to be PREPARED not just used right out of the bag or can..that info. on preparing baits should be found out as some of these baits will harm or kill carp if not prepared right!
Scott

[Wise1]

Anyone remember the old VANDO strawberry or vanilla carp bait?? LOL You know it would get like a rock in about a day once you opened it up

Man that stuff was about useless for me ................

I like the idea of chick peas, seems like it would work well, like Corn does

[atrkyhntr]

ohhhh boy I openned a can of wor... I mean corn with this thread LOL
THANKS Scott I really appreciate the info and will now immerse myself in study :D

I may just have to quit bow fishing ;)

[Flatheadmaniac]

Hey i love talking about fishing...hope this info. helps but like i said im not that hard core of a carper like rrbski, hes for sure the top carper in Ohio...i still need to do my homework on them and get out and catch some...my problem is i fish for too many species and cant find enough time for them all..but i cant give any of them up either;)
Good luck and if ya have any more questions..post away..someone on here will have the answer for you.

Man where the heck is rrbski at?..hed love this topic!

[cwcarper]

Carping can be as simple or as complicated as you like. I used to use nothing but wheaties and sweet corn, and I caught lots of carp that way. Now I use all sorts of different baits, including boilies, chickpeas, maize, and lots of other stuff Scott mentioned. I also use hempseed, sling shots, packbaits, lots of different flavorings, different types of chum, and lots of other stuff I never considered before, and I'm still kind of new to these Euro style techniques (probably been fishing them for 3 or 4 years).

I also changed my rigging from the standard hook and sliding sinker to a bolt rig. There are lots of different rigs and variations, many of which I still don't know, but the bolt rig is pretty simple. The rig is composed of a hair-rigged hook (hook with a loop that the bait is put on with a bait needle, the only good way to fish boilies and other hard baits that a hook won't penetrate). This is tied to a short leader which is then tied to the mainline via a swivel. To top it off, and what makes it the bolt rig, is a heavy, fixed sinker (2 or 3 oz). This causes the fish to hook itself when it moves off with the bait. This has probably been the single most important improvement in my carp tactics as the hookup rate is much better than when using the baited hook/sliding sinker method. I'm able to hook a much higher percentage of carp this way -- often times catching carp that I normally wouldn't have even detected using my old methods.

Of course, you didn't ask about any of that, just wanted to give you an idea of the different styles of fishing out there. And that was just the tip of the iceberg, there's tons more, but I won't get into all of that. I found out that there's a lot more skill involved with catching lots of big carp than I had previously thought. The best way to learn about it is to fish with someone experienced in these methods and to ask lots of questions.

[cwcarper]

Man, I could go on and on about this. It really becomes an obsession. I fish for lots of different species, but the only one I really spend time thinking about when I'm not fishing is carp :D .

[Ðe§perado™]

atrkyhntr are you sure you want to give up bowfishing? LOL
:D

[atrkyhntr]

Oh sure not a prob at all.... This way I can bring my son or a couple of my daughters too and let them in on the fun... Also can release them to fight another day :D

[Flatheadmaniac]

I did not realize til Deperado said something that you are a bowfisherman..i reread your posts on this thread and saw that..ooops!
Well..im at a lose for words here(that doesnt happen to often, just ask these guys..lol)
All i can say is..hope you find enjoyment in fishing for these great fish..they are a lot of fun..all we try to do is spread the word and help other anglers learn about these great SPORTFISH.
Scott;)

[atrkyhntr]

OK ok ok beat me up but it does happen....

If I foul hook one and now need to dispatch it does anyone here have a good recipie or do you always release them even when it looks like they haven't a chance to survive??? :confused:
I've had carp smoked before and it was good but no longer know the person who did it or how they prepared it...

[Flatheadmaniac]

I was only messing with ya a bit..no harm meant at all.
Foul hooked fish...if a fish is hooked deep like way down the throat..or deep meaning ya just can get it out because its in a real tough fleshy spot...its always better to just cut the line as close to the hook as you can, that hook will be gone in a short while.
I have caught many fish species that have had as many as 3-4 hooks in its mouth and still hit my bait...most were rusted and almost gone..some looked very fresh.
I have never hooked a fish so bad i thought it needed put out of its misery? but i guess it will happen.
Now dont get me wrong here..im not one of those PETA guys..if someone wants to needlessly kill fish, or kill fish for fun and its legal..hey thats thier business i guess..
I do my fair share of killing as well, im talking bait..suckers, shad and skipjack herring used fresh cut for cats, live shad, bluegills and other species for flatheads.....every season...but i put them to use instead of throwing them on the bank..i release all the left over live bait back into the water when im done.
Sorry i guess that was another "off topic" post again, some will say:rolleyes:

[atrkyhntr]

Oh sure I know the hook cutting technique what I am refering to is when you have damaged the fish beyond release... gills or gill plate etc.... ?

Your never off topic as long as I have something to read LOL:D

hmnmnmn PETA ???
Does that mean People Eating Tasty Animals???
;)
:)
:D
:cool:
:p

[Flatheadmaniac]

"hmnmnmn PETA ???
Does that mean People Eating Tasty Animals???'
hahahahahahahah....Thats what it SHOULD stand for!;)

[mrfish/OH]

I think Bob had some good ones on his site or some of the carper sites.
Of couse I know you heard the one about baking them on a pine board...when done, throw away the fish & eat the board ?!?:confused:
Carp are quite tasty is what I've heard. Also they were imported to feed the early settlers.

[Flatheadmaniac]

with lots of good pics. of UK carp & cats.
http://members.rott.chello.nl/tmarapengopie/wereldrecord.htm

[Ðe§perado™]

but i put them to use instead of throwing them on the bank..


Please don't get that started agian.:rolleyes: ;) :D

[rrbski]

EATING CARP...

A word of caution: due to water/water bottoms pollution...recommend you follow local "fish eating" precautions....and stick to carp under say 8 lbs for eating purposes.

Below are some recipes for carp...many more can be found on the web. Another bit of trivia....In parts of Germany...carp is a traditional Christmas dish...just as turkey is for our Thanksgiving meal. And one more.....according to Ohio DNR....The common carp is native to Europe, but were first stocked into Ohio waters in 1879 as a food fish. Anywho.....

Carp can be prepared in a number of ways, and were a popular food fish in Europe even before introduction into North America....which is why they were brought here after government study. As with all fish, carp should be kept on ice while fishing and on the way home. Carp can easily be skinned or filleted. Without removing the guts or scales...filet the fish. To skin, lay the filets skinside down on a cutting board and run the filet knife between the skin and meat...starting at the tail portion and working towards the head..this takes some practice but once learned is very easy. Next...trim out the rib bones and remove all dark meat you see. This includes the lateral line (sometimes called the mudvein/line...it's tough tastin stuff...on any fish of size, the other dark meat is fat...real fishy tasting. Carp filets should always be "scored" if they are to be fried or baked, they have "y" bones like pike and this will keep them from being a nuisance. Scoring is merely the process of slicing about two-thirds of the way through the slabs of meat every one-eighth to one-fourth inch across the whole piece of fish. Scoring allows the cooking process to soften small bones in the meat.

Recipes

CARP RECIPES
Carp Burgers

4 pounds carp
1/2 teaspoon sage, powdered
1 teaspoon celery salt
1/4 cup onion, minced
1/4 teaspoon black pepper
1 teaspoon baking soda

Fillet carp, skin and remove rib sections. Mix baking soda with enough water to cover fillets and soak overnight. Rinse fillets under cold water and dry with paper towels. Run fillets through meat grinder with fine blade twice. Mix onion, sage, celery salt, pepper and carp well in a large bowl. Form into patties, roll in dry pancake flour and drop into hot oil. Fry about 2 minutes on each side until brown, drain on paper towels and serve with horseradish, mustard, or shrimp cocktail sauce.
Alfred Johnson, Kearney, NE

Pressure Cooked Carp

skinned carp fillets cut into pieces
2 tablespoon salad oil
1 teaspoon pickling salt
Pack carp into pint canning jars and add salad oil and salt. Pressure cook 90 minutes at 10 pounds of pressure. For a taste variation add 2 tablespoons catsup, or 1 tablespoon of dry mustard, or 3 tablespoons of Dorothy Lynch dressing.
Deloris Kneifel, Columbus, NE

Barbecued Carp

1 carp skinned, with tail removed
1/2 cup chopped onions
1/4 cup margarine
1 cup barbecue sauce
Spread cavity with margarine then sprinkle onions, salt and pepper inside cavity. Spread 1/2 cup barbecue sauce on piece of heavy aluminum foil large enough to wrap fish, put fish on top of sauce, and cover with the remainder of the sauce. Wrap fish tightly in foil. Place in baking pan and bake at 350 for 1 1/2 hours. Turn 2-3 times during baking. When done place on platter and pour sauce from foil package onto fish to serve.
Mrs. Carroll W. Durr, Nebraska City, NE

[rrbski]

Sorry didn't get back here sooner....doing some work on my website and writing a couple articles.....gotta get that stuff caught up while it's still winter :)

Great discussion....and couldn't agree more....carping (as can any type fishing) can be as simple or as complicated as an angler wants to make it....and what size and number they want to catch...and whether they want to catch year round vs just during the spring spawn. Carp have habits and changes in appetites just like any other fish. The small ones, under 10 lbs can usually be found in the shallows year round...the bigger ones however will move out into deeper (as much as 100' deep water) once the heat of summer starts to come on. They're also "shy"....once you get a bunch of bank angler's on the bank casting...start casting long and you'll soon find them. Great to fish for at night as well.

Baits....corn, wheaties etc...many of the old tried and true will work wonders...but, used to often in the same area and accounting for several catches...the carp will wise up to it and quit biting it. That's when these other baits come into play...especially if you're after the BIGGER fish :)

Anywho....sure enjoyed this thread...am in the process of trying to put some of this stuff up on my website...been trying for several years now :( and each winter I just never seem to get to it. :) Good carping all.

[atrkyhntr]

THANKS BOB :D

I really think I'll like the 1st two... I am not much into BBQ Sauce anymore since I started using rubs on my meats... hmnmmnn may try some on carp onday if I'm lucky enough or unlucky enough to need to eat one. I am a catch & release type when it comes to BIG Fish. I prefer to eat smaller fish like perch, crappie, gills and such... NUMMY

[rrbski]

I am a catch & release type when it comes to BIG Fish. I prefer to eat smaller fish like perch, crappie, gills and such... NUMMY

I'm with you on this :D You just named my favorites. ;) I have eaten carp before...under 5 lb in size...but, it's not a regular occurence. My reasons for posting these and other facts about carp are to combat a lot of "old wives" tales etc about a great fish that has given me much angling enjoyment over the last 40 years. Good fishing to ya.

[Flatheadmaniac]

What flavorings do you have the best luck with that we can buy from the reg. grocery store for dips, boilie making, ect.?

Whats your best recp. for DIPS ?

Also i saw that wacker baits is carring "Superior " Flavoring brand ..is this a good product??

[rrbski]

Flavorings...I've had great success with most of the Durkee and McCormick Flavor extracts found in the grocery stores. I use these for ingredients in boilies and dips. Anise, Maple and Strawberry are good bets.

A good dip can be made with a 1 to 10 ratio of these extracts with either...karo syrup, mollasses, safflower oil, peanut oil, fish oils etc. The thick ones like karo and molasses are great for dipping just before casting...the others I wouldn't really call a dip..but a soak...put a few baits in them overnight to soak.

Now when you talk about "best" dips...things like betaine, corn steep liquor, nutramino and other european additives available in the UK tacklestores come into play. But...I wouldn't go so far as to say that these things are absolutely necessary for a good days carping...but, can sometimes turn the tide on the slow biting days.

Superior flavors are great...I started using them about 3 years ago after making a few trips down to NC to learn packbaits from the paylakers down there. They use it a lot in packbaits. It comes in 8 oz bottles and is the consistency of "pancake" syrup. It is actually made for baking. I don't use them in boilies...but they make a great dip...and work great in packbaits/method mixes.

[Flatheadmaniac]

Now how about this.what about spices....like spearmint, ect.
Or flavors like Rum, ect.
I guess what im getting at is..what should we STAY away from?

[rrbski]

Scott....rum, spearmint, spices (cinnemon, black pepper, cayenne, mint, allspice) etc...are all good....on their day. You've read the many concoctions that catmen make up to catch fish...and they catch them on it. Also a bass or walleye guys tacklebox...worms, cranks, spinnerbaits etc....they all have their day. The biggest thing with a bait...is the angler's confidence in it....and willingness to let it sit....first thing is to be fishing where the fish are.

I'm a bait "fanatic" always playing with the stuff and have many, many flavors/bait ingredients....I've been known to throw it all away at the end of the year...and say I'm only going to use 1 type boilie, 2 types of packbaits, and 2 types of particle baits and chums....all with just 3 flavors/dips. By the end of the next season my room is full again. :D

Baits are as much of the hobby to me as the fishing part...and don't wish it on anyone :D Baits and flavors catch more anglers than fish. :D I'd pick a basic list like the ones I listed above. Sometimes it's even best to go with a plain flavored (maybe with some vanilla, which enhances any flavor) and then just use different flavored thick dips...that's the way the South African guys do it...and very effectively. :D I know this didn't help you much....but to sum it up...I've probably used every combination of flavors/ingredients and then some....and if I fished the right spots...caught fish on them.

Finding the right location...and chumming the exact same spot a little and often...and accurately casting your hookbait into that exact spot is usually more important than the bait itself.

[Flatheadmaniac]

And your tottaly right.."The biggest thing with a bait...is the angler's confidence in it....and willingness to let it sit....first thing is to be fishing where the fish are." that statement couldnt be more true...thats how i catch all the other species i fish for...i have 100% confidence that they will catch what im after!

I guess the main reason im picking your brain so hard is i do have some confidence in the OLD baits i have used before..but thats because they were used on VIRGIN carp and my baits were the only ones out there to tempt them...when you set next to guys that have better bait that will get a carps attention faster..it throws a simple game plan out the window(ie East Harbor last April)..i know i can catch carp in MY rivers..but put me on a lake and i draw a ZERO..thats where my confidence falls off..i know rivers and where fish hold, feed, ect. but not a clue in lakes!!!
I want to thank you though for putting up with the constant questions from me..one of these days(like this season) i'll start to figure out my own way to carp, instead of bugging you all the time..lol
;)

[mrfish/OH]

Don't be using any of those concoctions in any lakes near me or you'll make corn obsolete !!;) ;) :D

[rrbski]

Scott...no problem with the questions at all...just don't want to limit you in your thoughts on baits....no one bait is good all the time. As far as river vs lake baits....I've found no difference...except I make my packbaits/groundbaits a little harder so they breakdown slower sending scent downriver. Rivers are actually easier...the current washes scents downriver and brings the fish in....in a lake you have to look for structure/travel routes of carp. Carp are constantly patrolling in a lake...idea of chumming is to get them to stop and stay in your area for awhile. That's generally why on a lake...the best bait of the day will result in more fish when fishing with others...the fish will gather and stay on that spot. That's the biggest key in match fishing...but, that's another subject

Any bait used too often in the same spot...this includes corn or wheaties....will soon lose it's catching power as carp will start to avoid it...a change in color or flavor will usually help it last a bit longer. NOTE: I'm not talking about a couple times a year in the spring...I'm talking couple times a week the whole year and catching many of the resident fish. That's why the Euro/UK anglers spend so much time on baits....bait's blow after awhile on pressured waters.

MFO :D Corn's a hard bait to beat if it hasn't been fished with heavily...it's usually the first thing I fish with when fishing a new water seriously to see what the carp population is like.:D

[flathunter]

I know well what Scott is saying, being a river and creek fisherman myself..I catch very little in lakes, maybe if I fished them more I would..But I just dont have the paitence to fish them when I know the fish are waiting for me in the rivers.