Huge buck shot in ohio 11/03

[Ohio Bill]

http://www.american-hunter.com/monsterbucks/macksohbuck.htm

[george tinkham]

is this the one under investigation or the one confiscated?

[countyroad320]

That thing sure is a hog.

[tuffshot]

Yes George, that is the buck from Ross Co. and is still under investigation. The shooter says he shot it in one place but it may have been shot in another place. I haven't heard any new news on the outcome for the past several months. The DNR took it and has been hush, hush for awhile now.

[george tinkham]

i thought that was it,but wasn't sure.it is a nice buck,hope everything works out.

[Spitfire]

Awesome buck!!!!!!!
It's unfotunate that there has to be controversy associated with it.

[Ohio Bill]

It seems like almost all record bucks come with controversy.....Thats too bad..

[george tinkham]

oh but there is a lot of hanky panky going on.i can umderstand why they do what they do.there are those who are only interested in fame and making a buck,and they will stop at nothing to acheive it.challege is not even in their vocabuary,or ethics,or legal methods.prolly happinin more than i'd like to think.

[Beentown]

When I was a kid a saw a guy shoot a deer with a rifle and then stuck an arrow in a muzzle loader to shoot through the same spot... What a jackass...I knew better than that as a kid...the arrow blew to pieces...So he cut the backstraps and quartered it...I was so young I can't remember who or even what county it was...:confused:

[Caribou Dreamer2]

Whatever the out come that is still one nice buck

[george tinkham]

heh heh beentown so funny,right craaobu,thats a fine bvck...B^}

[Q2XL]

man what a deer .i would have let him walk he aint big enough for me;)

[mack]

Hey fellas,
New to this forum and read about my deer. Yes, I'm the one who arrowed the deer in Ross County. It's amazing to sit back and watch all the hoopla and rumors that spread once ODNR confiscates someone's property. It seems as if more people know more about my situation than I do. Tuffstuff, could you fill me in on a little more? The investigation is going on six month's and I know just as much now as what I did when they took my antlers. Wonder why they are being so top secret about this situation? Just thought I'd throw this out there to see what kind of response I got.

[CritterGitter]

Welcome to the site Mack. That is one awesome trophy buck. I think you should tell me exactly where you shot it and be sure to give detailed directions and a map would be helpful so that way I can get a stand in the very tree you shot it from. That would be great!

Seriously, that's a great buck and I hope it all works out for you. I know I would be devastated to have something like that happen to me.

CG

[Beentown]

So what is the Hoopla all about? What is there beef Mack?

[Thunderflight]

That is one awesome deer.

TF

[george tinkham]

i wonder whats going on

[countyroad320]

I don't see what it could be they need all this time to find out that they could not have found out 6 months ago.

Mack-
I hope it all works out for you. People are always quick to cry foul when someone gets a big one. You should fill us in on the harvest story. Everyone on here likes to read them. By the way welcome to the site.

[mack]

It all started like this-
An older gentleman, who is about to retire this year, said that my deer looks like one that he has seen on prison property 15 miles from where I shot it. The day after I harvested my buck, I killed it on a Sunday, I took my pictures to work. A good friend said that I should contact ODNR, which I did, they came to the house checked the deer, took some pictures and then left. A month later ODNR was at my doorstep asking for my antlers. I expected them to come after hearing all the rumors at work such as, he killed it with a rifle, he killed it behind the prison, etc. I gladly gave the rack to them expecting that the investigation would be short and sweet. To my surprise, they have had it now for about 6 months. I talked to Dean Zigler and Gary Trent, they both advised me that guilty or not, I need to hire an attorney to get my property back. This is rediculous! What right does ODNR have to keep someone's property this long. I talked to my attorney yesterday, we have decided to contact the media regarding this issue. Maybe this will get the ball rolling.

[countyroad320]

They have no business doing this. I'll keep an eye out in the media for news. Keep us posted on this. The ODNR is probably going to say that all wild game is property of the state and therefore the ODNR's. I'm just saying that that is probably what they will do. I don't know though.

They are out of line.

[george tinkham]

guess we'll just have to stay tuned...

[Caribou Dreamer2]

Wondering minds want to know
guess we'll just have to stay tuned...

[XX78]

Shoot a big buck, shoot a call to an attorney, game warden, and shoot a padlock thru your lips for a couple of years.

[Beentown]

I guarantee that if I shot a 140" or better I will have the warden in the field helping me drag it out just in case;)

[george tinkham]

if i git a warden it will be for help in trackin an draggin it out...i just put em on the wall sometimes,not in it for glory or money...its just me against the buck...i have no reason to cheat

[Beentown]

Thats what others may have thought then nock, nock, nock at the door and your deer is gone because of rumors.

[XX78]

Im glad that this happens. There must be a reason why the dnr investigates these issues......Oh yeah its because people poach big bucks all over. You gotta think how many bucks get taken illegally (thru both blatant and minor violations of the law) and either tagged as legal or not in this state. Lets face it, the chances of shooting a huge buck in ohio is higher than some surrounding states, but it is still a low probability. Unfortunately, many try to increase their probability by illegal means. Secondly if the buck is taken legally and the hunter uses common sense, the majority of these cases would be eliminated, if they were in fact legal to begin with. I shoot a 170+ that MFer is staying put until the warden gets there period.

[Beentown]

I am happy when the DNR investigates something shady....but.... take Mack for example. There is no reason for him to not have his rack back by now. 6 months come on. There is nothing they are going to find after the first month let alone 5 more.

I also think they should have to do a findings report on every case. The only time we get the full story is when they have proof of a violation. If they don't have the proof the non-violator just gets more hassle because no one from the investigation tries to help clear their name.

If there is proof hang em high. If not be curtious and be timely in the case and if no violations were found then apologize and do a findings report so that person can point to the report and say "here is my clear name"!

[XX78]

I understand and agree with many of your points. I like the findings report idea tremendously. That would give everyone a sense of closure, both good and bad. The only issue I disagree with is timing. There is no question that 6 months is a long time to wait to get the antlers back if it were me, but u got to understand. But and only if the ODNR is serious about catching and prosecuting poachers, (thus protecting their top dollar attractors, ie big bucks), they need to be incredibly diligent in their investigation. Combine this with their other regular duties and another case or 2 and its gonna take a while. If they were serious about cases such as these, they will employ strategies other than establishing allibies, or character witnesses. A few DNA tests from stool samples, or other animals in the area of the prision, or 15 miles away, compared to the animal in question, could prove guilt or not. And yes its true deer migrate, but tests like that in the court of law, can do a lot to suade a jury or judge.


Not to mention the tests can take a lot of time to design, where and what items to test, how big of an area, and not to mention the proceedure of Running the test, extracting the DNA from the sample, Amplifying it to measurable amounts, analyzing the samples, and coming to a conclusion all take time.

I hope this is the approach they are taking, and arent just yanking his chain. If I were innocent, I would have no problems hitting them for answers.

[george tinkham]

i agree 78,it is a cheaters game to git ahead an i wager that most our "icons" are doin it or have done it in the past,to git pictures for their book or websites

[CritterGitter]

I agree with Beentown on this one. A findings report would be a great idea. I also, think it could be a tool that the ODNR uses to promote their work. A lot of people don't understand the ODNR and think it is just a bunch of wardens and beaurocrats. This would be one good way they could promote their services in a positive light.

CG

[10Gauge]

Hey, Mack.....What's the latest news on this issue?

You're not the guy I read about in "Wild Ohio" who copped a plea for shooting a huge buck and tagging it with someone elses tag(after already tagging a buck earlier in the season) are you?

Someone mentioned DNA evidence in this thread and according to the article people at this guys work place turned him in and DNA evidence proved it was "poached" and the man finally admitted to the crime! Anybody heard from Mack on this?

[jeffmo]

1st off,congrats on a super buck!!!
2ndly,i feel sorry for you having to go through this kind of mess.seems like there's ALOT of jealousy over trophy bucks among hunters these days.
now,if i was lucky enough to drop a bruiser of that size and everything had been done legally then, had the dnr folks knocking on my door asking to take the rack so they could investigate it,they would be told to get a warrant for it.
i'd explain every detail of the circumstances about the hunt then tell them if they had any issues they'd simply have to go the legal route through the court systems.but they would not get my property by simply asking for it.
i would tell them to line up those who were making the accusations against me so they would have to accuse me face to face.it wouldn't be too hard to seperate the facts from the lies then.
last year i posted a pic of a huge buck taken by deercreek and the same thing basically happened to the young man who took it.
there were rumors about the buck not being taken legally and the taxidermist contacted the dnr saying that the wound didn't "look" like an arrow wound.
well.after everything was said and done the kid got his deer back.AFTER he was drug though the mud over the entire situation.

[george tinkham]

wow dont tell me this aint been takin care of..."and the beat goes on"

[Ohio Bill]

LOL wow

[ron]

This buck nets 229 nontypical?????

[Ohio Bill]

Says 229 3/8ths i guess

[Ohio Sportsman]

If Mack took it like he said he did then I don't have a problem with it, now if anyone can prove otherwise the burden is theirs to prove. DNA testing will work but it also has a margin of error, being 15 miles or closer that deer could have roamed a bit especially if he was chasing does. I can see alot of what-if's come into the scenario, has anyone one seen the deer that the old man retiring is talking about ? Ain't heard that question answered yet. I will tell you this much, there is so much jealousy in hunting that some people just can't stand that you accomplished the feat that they will go as far as sabotaging your trophy with rumors and doubt. Those are the people that need to be run out of hunting, they give the honest man a bad name all out of jealousy and spite. It sometimes amazes me to hear these rumors, you will get 1 version from one guy and another version from another guy and then it spreads 10 fold when everyone else starts telling their version. :rolleyes:

[XX78]

Its the same jealously that fuels poachers to bend and break the laws to score big deer.

[george tinkham]

lets set a scenario...a guy is on a stan a good number of days an keeps seein this buck just over the fence on the property where he dont have perm. to hunt...wow it is the biggest buck he has ever seen an to him has a shot at world record or is at least in the 300 class,now how many do you think will not shoot over the fence

[countyroad320]

"on stan" ?? Lets not bring that on here!!! Just kidding.

That is an interesting situation. I have been in that situatin, except not a world record, but definitely a 130< class. One of my favorite stand sites sits 15 yards from a property line. The buck was another 15 yards on the other side of the line. It just didn't feel right to shoot. The deer was awesome. All I could do was watch.
Thats just what I get for hunting close to the line. The spot just happens to be an inside corner type of a funnel. I've seen several large bucks way on the other side of the line, I just try and take my chances of calling them to my side. It has worked.

[XX78]

I wonder how many deer are taken like that.

[george tinkham]

well jus thin hqw many will put a stan on properyy they dont have perm. to hunt,unfortunately i see this too often...i believe over 50 percent will shoot the deer even if its not a big boy an prolly even if its a doe...

[countyroad320]

George-
Good point. Many don't have to worry about the concern of shooting something on the other side of the fence, because they are already on the other side of the fence!!!

[Thunderflight]

That's a tough one. I've been there myself.

TF

[george tinkham]

i had a nice one in gun season several yrs. back,i seen this very nice buck,better than anything i ever kilt i believe,durin bowseason,once at 10 yds...butt anyway its now gun season an its scairt over muh way by some in my party who incidently were trespassin at the time on the neighbors property,butt it is just on the other side of the fence an i am thinkin do i want tuh take him with the muzz if he crosses or hold out for bow,i got the crosshair centered at bout 40 yds...i got a rem. inline/sabots...well he dont cross an i dont shoot,i really dont know if i would have shot anyway even if it had crossed the fence...,it just didnt feel right...didnt matter all of a sudden it sounded like a firefight then the shootin stopped,silemce,then i heard some shoutin an whoopin near where i last seen the buck ,then the silence was broken again ,some talkin,then i hear a atv commin,then after arrival a lot of hollerin an yellin,i'm sure that was curtains for the big buck,never seen it again...butt i will never 2nd guess not shooti it over the line,its just how it goes...sad that everybuddy in that deer camp trespassed,shot deer an others tagged,there was no law,i got out,even though it was a good area for big boys

[stiik-n-string]

Along with being an avid deer hunter, I also fish in lots of Bass tournament trails. When a large fish or catch is weighed in, that team is usually required to take a lie detector test (due mainly to the fact that alot of money is involved). Being fortunate enough to take an exceptional deer such as the one in question here, should warrant the same (due mainly to the fact that alot of money is involved). I say to the DNR give the guy a test and leave him the f**k alone. I feel for you Mack having to endure all of this. Hope things work out for the best!

[george tinkham]

i disagree bout lie detector tests,that could be said bout anything in life that involves money or anything...lie detector tests are not completely accurate ,that is a problem for its use...

[stiik-n-string]

that the test aren't 100% accurate, however, I feel confident that most people would rather submit to a one time test than to lose the rack of a lifetime for 6 months or "indefinately" because of the jealousy of other hunters. (Which is basically what this whole scenario boils down to from what I gather). If this was an ethical kill, and I'm not saying it was or wasn't, I feel sorry for Mack and would be on the phone with my Lawyer day and night until my rack was returned if I were him. As far as the test goes, I understand that people would still say " he cheated the test, or got lucky and passed" Most of those folks are probably guilty of some unethical practice at some point or another. Just my $.02

[george tinkham]

maybe they should bring this case to the public...there is 2 sides to each story,we dont know what evidence they have...so we really dont have any idea whats going on...butt i think they need tuh put up or shut up

[XX78]

two well said argruments. Bottomline is thus needs to be brought to the limelight.

[CStan]

I would say there should have to be evidence of some wrong doing. Just because Joe Blo makes some claim shouldn't give anyone the right to confiscate something. If there isn't enough evidence the issue should be dropped. If there is enough evidence to file charges then hold the item in question until after a trial. If there is no conviction or the charges are dropped the item should be returned.

[george tinkham]

i would have thought this case would be taken to trail by now...

[Buckmaster]

I'd like to see if get taken care of promptly no matter what the outcome is. When stories drag on like this for years it ends up giving Hunting and Hunters a bad rap. This effects you and I, especially when seeking out permission to hunt private lands.