Gregg Ritz in trouble?

[JD Boyd]

Anybody been on archery talk today? Sounds like he got in some serious trouble. Now the word is he partnered up with Joel Snow? Get some more big money up here and lease up more of my hunting ground:mischeif::tsk:

[FinelyShedded]

Hey JD, is Joel Snow the outfitter that has Stan "WANDERING EYE" Potts coming in state to harvest big bruiser bucks for about 12 K a pop? He runs 5 Star something or rather doesn't he? Haven't heard the Gregg Ritz story yet! This leasing crap has got to go! These rich fatcats keep leasing up all this land and all this state is going to have is a bunch of land locked up with buster bucks and only rich clientel being able to afford the opportunity to whack one!

[JD Boyd]

Hey JD, is Joel Snow the outfitter that has Stan "WANDERING EYE" Potts coming in state to harvest big bruiser bucks for about 12 K a pop? He runs 5 Star something or rather doesn't he? Haven't heard the Gregg Ritz story yet! This leasing crap has got to go! These rich fatcats keep leasing up all this land and all this state is going to have is a bunch of land locked up with buster bucks and only rich clientel being able to afford the opportunity to whack one!
Ritz and his manager were fined $50000 for illegal deer kills. Joel has leased up a lot of land and there is good bucks on the properties. I don't think the 12k was true though he probably just got it free cause look at all the buisiness Joel got off that one deer. Last year he was booked.

[Bawana]

Here's the article, notice the last line.
http://fw.ky.gov/newsrelease.asp?nid=512

[Deehntr56]

and after reading the last line, how coincidental is them moving here and Ohio going to telecheck...in the VERY near future.......

What do you think???:mischeif:

[JD Boyd]

I don't like telecheck BUT they were cought and they are big names and maybe it will make others think twice about doing something illegal.

[Wildman18]

I just sent something to the O.D.N.R with that wed page attached. Keep an eye on these guy's!!!

I would assume that they are already aware or them.

[redcloud102]

What a bunch of BS. They shouldn't be allowed to hunt anymore anywhere. Seriously they suspend peoples driver license's and they aren't allowed to get another one from another state and I think they should do that for hunting/fishing as well.

As for the Land Lease Hunting. I think that will be the death of hunting in Ohio. HATE the idea and thought it was a bad idea when it started and would love to see it go back to where ever it came from. It will come to the point that you won't be able to hunt your favorite old hunting spots you have hunted for years without deep pockets. Just plain makes me sick every time I see it posted. What happened to just getting to know the landowner and maybe giving them a hand around their place if the needed it. NO. These people just walk in and fork over cash and could care less about the owner or his property. In the long run it kills the chance he will ever let people hunt the property ever again.

[mrex]

What happened to just getting to know the landowner and maybe giving them a hand around their place if the needed it.
Or could it be that the old system took advantage of the landowner?*

[So. Ohio Outfitters]

Or could it be that the old system took advantage of the landowner?*

dido....helping the landowner out a little don't get the lime and fertilizer bills paid which can add up to thousands of dollars...if you knew the expenses that a farmer with a sizable farm puts out a year, leasing isn't a bad idea to get the bills paid, and with the way the economy is, you have to make your farm "work" for you....

[coonskinner]

and the beat goes on...the door has been opened for big time leasing here and many will do anything to make a dollar...:D

[Bucko]

Hold on tight,we are lucky to have the land we have now.we hunt a pretty large farm,the man that owns it ,told me sunday he gets at least 1 call a week from an outfitter or someone offering him the world to lease his farms.The home farm is 1400 arces with the others being from 60 to 500.So far he has told them to shove off. but you never know!BB

[JD Boyd]

Or could it be that the old system took advantage of the landowner?*
When trees fall out in the field or if I ever see big rocks in the field I pick them up or move them out of the field. Last year I even gave two gallons of syrup to a couple landlords that let me hunt. I never take advantage of a landowner letting me hunt. But if somebody would go and offer them $10 or so an acre for hunting they'd probably think about it.

[ohiosam]

I find it interesting that most of the fines are being levied against a corporation, not the individuals that violated the laws.

If those individuals were fined they might not be able to hunt in Ohio. But the corporation can easily come to Ohio. Another reason Ohio need to license outfitters.

[ktrain72]

Mismanage 12000 acres in Ky and leave the mess for the landowner to deal with and move a poorly run operation to Ohio to help imbalance the herd there.

[deerhunt45]

Very disturbing to say the least...:irked: :mad:

[ohiosam]

Mismanage 12000 acres in Ky and leave the mess for the landowner to deal with and move a poorly run operation to Ohio to help imbalance the herd there.

If I understand the article they were not necessarily mismanaging it. They were "over managing" it, at least as far as the game laws of KY are concerned.

This episode is another embarrassment to the whole "big whitetail" industry. Unfortunately all hunters get a black eye from it. :(

[PAKing]

As for the Land Lease Hunting. I think that will be the death of hunting in Ohio. HATE the idea and thought it was a bad idea when it started and would love to see it go back to where ever it came from. It will come to the point that you won't be able to hunt your favorite old hunting spots you have hunted for years without deep pockets. Just plain makes me sick every time I see it posted. What happened to just getting to know the landowner and maybe giving them a hand around their place if the needed it. NO. These people just walk in and fork over cash and could care less about the owner or his property. In the long run it kills the chance he will ever let people hunt the property ever again.

I totally agree, whats with all these greedy landowners!!! I hunted a farm last year and asked the owner "if I don't get a deer, can I have one of your cows" Can you imagine he said no, I told him I don't need a big one, a small one will be fine. Still no. Well he will never have the privledge of ME hunting his property again.

[CARPN-JAKE]

FYI...Here is the article I copied from AT

Kentucky Tourism, Arts and Heritage Cabinet News Release
Kentucky Department of Fish & Wildlife Resources
fw.ky.gov
Game Trails LLC, McTavish fined $50,000 for illegal deer kills

Apr 06, 2009



Frankfort, Ky. – A Kentucky Department of Fish and Wildlife Resources deer biologist who noticed discrepancies while analyzing 2006 hunter deer harvest data triggered an 18-month long state and federal law enforcement investigation that produced one of the largest wildlife penalties in state history last month in United States District Court, Owensboro.

Game Trails, a more than 12,000-acre Limited Liability Corporation commercial hunting preserve in Union and Crittenden counties, controlled by sole proprietor owner and then Thompson/Center Arms President and CEO Gregg Ritz, and its site manager, William Dirk McTavish, Jr., 43, of Paducah, paid $50,000 in fines after pleading guilty to numerous misdemeanor violations of the Lacey Act of taking wildlife unlawfully, and for making false statements to Kentucky officers about the takings and interstate transporting of wildlife.

United States Magistrate Judge E. Robert Goebel ordered that Game Trails LLC, pay a $35,000 fine and McTavish pay a $15,000 fine.

Robert Christopher Helms, 40, of Booneville, Indiana, and a former Game Trails guide, faces up to five years in federal prison after pleading guilty to a felony count of threatening a federal witness. His sentencing is scheduled for June 11.

Department wildlife and deer biologist David Yancy, in August 2007, noticed numerous inconsistencies while comparing and analyzing 2006 Telecheck deer harvest data with data that Game Trails LLC supplied to Quality Deer Management Association (QDMA) in Georgia.

Yancy and department Private Lands Wildlife Biologist Phillip Sharp raised these irregularities with Union County conservation officer Lt. Greg Noel. Noel, already familiar with Game Trails and the property, enlisted the help of Crittenden County officer Randy Conway. They began the lengthy process of reconciling the Telechecked deer harvest reports of Game Trails clients with information from QDMA.

Their investigation turned up numerous instances of Game Trails employees, their friends and family chronically taking over-limits of deer, outside hunting season parameters, supplying false information to Kentucky Fish and Wildlife and using social security numbers of Game Trails clients without their permission to Telecheck their deer harvests.

State and federal officers seized hundreds of deer jawbones and documentation tying them to Game Trails from QDMA headquarters in Atlanta during the investigation. By sending the jawbones to another state, Game Trails was guilty of transporting illegally taken deer out of state and triggered the Lacey Act violations.

Noel said that the property, bordered by about 4½ miles of Ohio River, was owned by Kimball International and leased to Ritz and sharecroppers. He said that the previous owner had used local draw hunting to manage the deer herd, but that Game Trails eliminated that practice because it interfered with its filming and big buck hunting routines. As a result, the herd grew quickly and Game Trails contacted QDMA to evaluate and make recommendations about improving the deer herd.

Game Trails then supplied QDMA with completed data sheets and jawbones of harvested deer. It was this data, discovered during the investigation, which conflicted with Telecheck data.

Noel says Game Trails has recently vacated the property and is moving its operations to Ohio.

[CritterGitter]

I think there are two different classifications of hunters paying for recreational use of land. There is a lease - where a hunter or multiple hunters have an agreement to pay a landowner for exclusive hunting rights. Then there is an outfitter - where a company, group or individual lease the hunting rights from a landowner and sell the opportunity to hunt there to others.

You will find good lease hunters and bad ones. You will also find good outfitters and bad ones. It's the same in life. It only takes one bad apple to spoil the bunch.

I think in most cases a landowner is much better off to lease the land for hunting rights. He gets help to pay the bills, help to watch over it, and if he chooses the right hunters...........not always the ones with the deepest pockets.................they will respect the land and the landowner. It's funny how folks with no money invested in something will take things for granted.

[ktrain72]

If I understand the article they were not necessarily mismanaging it. They were "over managing" it, at least as far as the game laws of KY are concerned.

This episode is another embarrassment to the whole "big whitetail" industry. Unfortunately all hunters get a black eye from it. :(

Noel said that the property, bordered by about 4½ miles of Ohio River, was owned by Kimball International and leased to Ritz and sharecroppers. He said that the previous owner had used local draw hunting to manage the deer herd, but that Game Trails eliminated that practice because it interfered with its filming and big buck hunting routines. As a result, the herd grew quickly and Game Trails contacted QDMA to evaluate and make recommendations about improving the deer herd.

Game Trails then supplied QDMA with completed data sheets and jawbones of harvested deer. It was this data, discovered during the investigation, which conflicted with Telecheck data.

I take this part of the article as the property was "mismanaged" as far as the buck to doe ratio and when they realized the problem started to illegally cull the does. and try to get qdma to help them with the deer ratio problem that they had created by only harvesting bucks for their tv show. only to backfire by self incriminating themselves.

[redcloud102]

Or could it be that the old system took advantage of the landowner?*

Most of the places I hunt are farms. There is always things that need to be done. Every bit that I can help him with gets things done faster. Most of the farmers around here are working 16 hour days specially during planting and harvesting times. It also frees him up to do other work that he might not have been able to get to that day. The old timers rather you help them out and would laugh at you if you tried to pay them. I'm sure some of the younger land owners would rather take the money. In either case it could be taken advantage of.

You know money is nice but, it isn't everything. Alot of the most important things in Life you can't buy with it. :D

[antiqucycle]

Its only going to get worse, when you check in a your 3rd cousins deer on your home computer.

The ODNR is making a big mistake not regulating outfitters, guides, sub leasors, pretty much any commercialized hunting.

Are commercial shooting preserves licensed in OHio? why not deer

[Mountaineer]

When I see a hunter who killed a buck on leased land thats locked up and also thru an Outfitter...I say to myself "So what"..those bucks were Bought..The success was Bought. And when its under those conditions..it just doesnt mean much.:rolleyes:

[PAKing]

You know money is nice but, it isn't everything.

You know who says this, people with no money.

[Lance]

Quote:
Originally Posted by redcloud102
You know money is nice but, it isn't everything.
Originally Posted by PAKing
You know who says this, people with no money.

Not so true sometimes. You just need to stop and evaluate what's really improtant to you as an individual.


As to the subject at hand, this is just disgusting. I hope the DNR keeps an eye on them right out of the gate.

[redcloud102]

You know who says this, people with no money.

So what your saying is that people that don't make as much as you think they should are worthless :tsk::nono:. Are you saying people without money are second rate citizens ? I say Shame on you for placing a dollar sign on a persons life.

[Mountaineer]

This is Greg Ritz's property..Called "Game Trails"..Everything east of the Ohio river and Sothwest of Sturgis..basically everything in the areial ...Greg Miller made a small mistake one time during a game trail show of an aerial of a small field where he took a buck...I spent hours searching for that particualr shape of that field..and i found it. Nothing gets by Me.;)

http://i429.photobucket.com/albums/qq13/flog/Gregritzprop.jpg

[redcloud102]

Has anybody seen any of his new hunting spots here yet ? Just wondering how much land he has sucked up so far to run his dirty little operation.

[ohiosam]

Hasn't deer hunting become a wonderful thing?

Some people willing to go to extreme measures to impress strangers.

Many others ready to assume the worse and to be critical of anyone else that has success.

:(

Why doesn't squirrel hunting have these problems?

[mrex]

You know who says this, people with no money.

"and beauty is skin deep" said the guy with the ugly girl friend.:biggrin:

[PAKing]

So what your saying is that people that don't make as much as you think they should are worthless :tsk::nono:. Are you saying people without money are second rate citizens ? I say Shame on you for placing a dollar sign on a persons life.

Thats exactly what I am saying. Instead of complaining about the rich, get off your duff and become one. Don't sit around, complain and wait for your Obama-Nation wealth to come.

[redcloud102]

Thats exactly what I am saying. Instead of complaining about the rich, get off your duff and become one. Don't sit around, complain and wait for your Obama-Nation wealth to come.

I didn't say anything about " Rich " people. It does how ever make me sick that alot of them just expect to flash some paper around and get what ever they want.

If I would become a thinker like you by being "Rich" then you can have it all. Obviously your definition for "Rich" and mine are totally different and personally i rather have mine then yours.

[PAKing]

"and beauty is skin deep" said the guy with the ugly girl friend.:biggrin:

And that money can't buy love are not shopping in the right place. :bouncy:

[PAKing]

I didn't say anything about " Rich " people. It does how ever make me sick that alot of them just expect to flash some paper around and get what ever they want.

If I would become a thinker like you by being "Rich" then you can have it all. Obviously your definition for "Rich" and mine are totally different and personally i rather have mine then yours.

Is that you Mr. Obama?

[Lance]

PAKing you are making some VERY broad statements/assumptions about peoples self worth and how their personal income would equate to your views. That's a pretty tough call when you have no idea who's on the other side of the keyboard.

Let's all take a breath and get this back on track to the subject at hand with the screwed up bozo in KY that's moving his garbage to Ohio.

[redcloud102]

Is that you Mr. Obama?


Your nothing but a trouble maker and I refuse to come down to your level to continue with you.

[redcloud102]

PAKing you are making some VERY broad statements/assumptions about peoples self worth and how their personal income would equate to your views. That's a pretty tough call when you have no idea who's on the other side of the keyboard.

Let's all take a breath and get this back on track to the subject at hand with the screwed up bozo in KY that's moving his garbage to Ohio.


:yeahthat:

[JD Boyd]

Has anybody seen any of his new hunting spots here yet ? Just wondering how much land he has sucked up so far to run his dirty little operation.
Joel keeps getting ground closer and closer to T.R.C. property so it would not surprise me if its not closer or even Honda land. Theie is a buck that I know of around that area that could possibly be the new typical record. I have never personally seen this deer but have an old friend who has seen this buck 3 or 4 times and another who has seen it twice. The only reason I am putting this out is because I would like to see somebodyelse kill the deer than one of them.(BTW one of my friends who has seen this buck has two booners on his wall so he does know what a big buck is when he sees it)

[jackalope]

...

...

Apparently there is one thing money can't buy.. A freaking dictionary with etymology......

You guys are arguing 2 different things..

Redcloud is arguing wealth. The word wealth comes from the Old English words “weal” (well-being) and “th” (condition) which taken together means “the condition of well-being”? and has only as of late been used to describe "rich"

PAKing--- By obvious inclusion of his screen handle and blatant profusion is arguing riches "valued possessions, money, property," c.1205, modified from richesse (12c.), a singular form misunderstood as a plural, from O.Fr. richesse "wealth, opulence," from riche. The O.Fr. suffix -esse is from L. -itia, added to adjectives to form nouns of quality (cf. duress, largesse).

Don't confuse Wealth with Riches nor opulence which is a combination of the two.


NOW back on topic....

[coonskinner]

You know who says this, people with no money.

paking...not always true...:D

[redcloud102]

Joel keeps getting ground closer and closer to T.R.C. property so it would not surprise me if its not closer or even Honda land. Theie is a buck that I know of around that area that could possibly be the new typical record. I have never personally seen this deer but have an old friend who has seen this buck 3 or 4 times and another who has seen it twice. The only reason I am putting this out is because I would like to see somebodyelse kill the deer than one of them.(BTW one of my friends who has seen this buck has two booners on his wall so he does know what a big buck is when he sees it)


I have a few relatives that work for Honda. They have cut down to 4 days no overtime and cut back on the amount they are producing. I would say that they would lease out some of the extra ground they have down there. It's not like Honda is going to use it anytime soon.

[Bucko]

Why doesn't squirrel hunting have these problems?


It will as soon as I show some of them big one's to them northerners!!BB:D

[deerhunt45]

Hasn't deer hunting become a wonderful thing?

Some people willing to go to extreme measures to impress strangers.

Many others ready to assume the worse and to be critical of anyone else that has success.

:(

Why doesn't squirrel hunting have these problems?

I agree with you Sam...thanks for saying it.

PAKing you are making some VERY broad statements/assumptions about peoples self worth and how their personal income would equate to your views. That's a pretty tough call when you have no idea who's on the other side of the keyboard.

Let's all take a breath and get this back on track to the subject at hand with the screwed up bozo in KY that's moving his garbage to Ohio.

Thanks, I also agree with Lance. Stay on topic...

I'm not excited about this outfit of outlaws coming into Ohio, that's for sure. Also not thrilled to hear 5 Star mentioned with these fly by nights, are they associated somehow? Wonder what QDMA has to say about this? Have they made a statement?

[coonskinner]

qdma is part of the problem...thats why leasing is coming to ohio...you think its bad now...wait until every piece of private property will be lease only...think about it...i've been there...:biggrin:

[Bucko]

I don't think it's all qdm, I think it is mostly greed and the need to sell.remember when Neol Feather got caught it was the need tto sell his VHS tapes, it's the same thing they have to shoot the biggest to sell there wares.This will be a black eye for TC for week or 2 then it will be forgotten.If we only knew half what's going on we might hang our selfs.BB

[JD Boyd]

I don't think it's all qdm, I think it is mostly greed and the need to sell.remember when Neol Feather got caught it was the need tto sell his VHS tapes, it's the same thing they have to shoot the biggest to sell there wares.This will be a black eye for TC for week or 2 then it will be forgotten.If we only knew half what's going on we might hang our selfs.BB
I am picking up my new pro hunter turkey gun thursday. Is'nt it perfect timing.

[Bucko]

JD , Maybe if you write or call TC and tell them you are on gregs side you will get a dicount.BB

My 2 year old grand daughter has it pretty much summed up.When she says

" Look at me, Look at me!!!!!"

[Beentown]

Everything has an end. As will big leasing outfits. There is only so much supply and demand for these type of operations (customers willing to pay). I will hang it up and watch them fizzle out if I have no reasonable land left to hunt. What drives these operations are people watching it on T.V. After the normal Joe Hunter can't afford to hunt they will buy less equipment which will lead to less advertising and glamourizing (is this a word?) of outfitter hunting.

The average hunter drives the industry.

I do it my way....the Beentown way:D

Beentown

[Bawana]

Getting back on track I'm surprised there were no state charges filed. Ritz is the sole proprietary owner of Game Trails, so while it's listed as an LLC, he's paying the $35000.00 and McTavish is paying the $15000.00. It appears they used the ssn's or some other personal identifiers of their clients to check in extra deer. I would think that would be identity theft. While the $50,000.00 in fines is serious, it looks like they may have skated on a lot of other violations. Like others have said if his hunting privileges would have been suspended in Ky he couldn't hunt Ohio either.

[Bucko]

Never go to court without a lawyer,I had jury duty for 3 months and was drawn for 3 trials 2 had a lawyers one represented himself ,1 walked ,1 settled and 1 fried. you guess which one .BB

[coonskinner]

[QUOTE=Beentown;333417]Everything has an end. As will big leasing outfits. There is only so much supply and demand for these type of operations (customers willing to pay). I will hang it up and watch them fizzle out if I have no reasonable land left to hunt. What drives these operations are people watching it on T.V. After the normal Joe Hunter can't afford to hunt they will buy less equipment which will lead to less advertising and glamourizing (is this a word?) of outfitter hunting.-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- it will only end when the big bucks end but these guys will grow them in barns just like in texas...if they lease up enough land fences are not needed but this isnt texas...in ohio the big outfits will eventually go to high fences,mark my word on that...i said that many years ago before there was any in ohio...if there is any large no fence (where deer can be protected by large amounts of land)operations i see it on meade land...i guess a lot of farms could be leased in blocks but i just dont see that but i wont say it couldnt happen...think about it guys...is that what you want...write the odnr...stopping baiting will be a big thing that will keep some of these places out of ohio and using suppliments...also i don't think high powered rifles should be legal on high fence operations if it is a safety issue...:D

[mikep43019]

Or could it be that the old system took advantage of the landowner?*
you are kidding me right? So since i dont pay the landowners i hunt on i am taking advantage of them? Wow hmm...lets see all the groundhogs i shot oh and the deer i shot and turkeys.....yea you are right that probably didnt help their damage to crops huh? What about the countless trips to help move stuff or help chase cows. You are very shallow with your statement period.

[coonskinner]

you are kidding me right? So since i dont pay the landowners i hunt on i am taking advantage of them? Wow hmm...lets see all the groundhogs i shot oh and the deer i shot and turkeys.....yea you are right that probably didnt help their damage to crops huh? What about the countless trips to help move stuff or help chase cows. You are very shallow with your statement period.nobuddy is taking advantage of anybuddy,many of these people hunting on these farms went to school together or are relatives,like me but mike don't understand that...i was born there,grew up with many of the landowners...i know a few that will knock your socks off you come trying to buy them...ans i can prove that...:D

[Bucko]

Coonie, you are right about that we hunt a 100 acre farm every now and then,the owner will not take anything but help.we offered him $$ one year ,he said if we ever offer again we won't be welcome.So we stack wood or what ever.It's nice to be invited back.Even went to a B Ball game with the family to cheer for the home team.BB

[coonskinner]

Coonie, you are right about that we hunt a 100 acre farm every now and then,the owner will not take anything but help.we offered him $$ one year ,he said if we ever offer again we won't be welcome.So we stack wood or what ever.It's nice to be invited back.Even went to a B Ball game with the family to cheer for the home team.BB

i guarantee you go badmouthing a relative or friend of the farmer or landowner or kill their friends pet youre out of a place to hunt...people down there thats been there all thier lives know people far and wide...money is what some think buys everything...not always...some deer hunters can be bought too...:D

[redcloud102]

Getting back on track I'm surprised there were no state charges filed. Ritz is the sole proprietary owner of Game Trails, so while it's listed as an LLC, he's paying the $35000.00 and McTavish is paying the $15000.00. It appears they used the ssn's or some other personal identifiers of their clients to check in extra deer. I would think that would be identity theft. While the $50,000.00 in fines is serious, it looks like they may have skated on a lot of other violations. Like others have said if his hunting privileges would have been suspended in Ky he couldn't hunt Ohio either.


I think they pretty much got a slap on the wrist. The money those guys made over the years thats just a drop in the bucket. I would also think that using SSN would be identity theft.

[mrex]

you are kidding me right? So since i dont pay the landowners i hunt on i am taking advantage of them? Wow hmm...lets see all the groundhogs i shot oh and the deer i shot and turkeys.....yea you are right that probably didnt help their damage to crops huh? What about the countless trips to help move stuff or help chase cows. You are very shallow with your statement period.

Perhaps I painted everyone with a broad brush. I've never paid a dime to hunt my favorite spot. The owners are elderly. I mow their grass, shovel snow from their driveway, cut and split their firewood. When they need a heavy box or a piece of furniture moved, they call me. They love venison and I fill their freezer every fall. I stop off periodically just to check on them and shoot the breeze. But I'm not the norm, and neither are you.

As a rural land owner, I'm inundated each year with guys who just show up the weekend before season and want to help me with my over populated deer herd or turkey flock or morel mushrooms or ginseng etc... I'm yet to have anybody offer any help of any kind - first.

[jackalope]

Perhaps I painted everyone with a broad brush. I've never paid a dime to hunt my favorite spot. The owners are elderly. I mow their grass, shovel snow from their driveway, cut and split their firewood. When they need a heavy box or a piece of furniture moved, they call me. They love venison and I fill their freezer every fall. I stop off periodically just to check on them and shoot the breeze. But I'm not the norm, and neither are you.

As a rural land owner, I'm inundated each year with guys who just show up the weekend before season and want to help me with my over populated deer herd or turkey flock or morel mushrooms or ginseng etc... I'm yet to have anybody offer any help of any kind - first.

This is probably "one of those comments" that might not be interpreted right in type but would be funny face to face..


It's funny how you mention "they never offer help of any kind - first"

I would reply after your statement... There never seams to be a shortage of people with their lips planted firmly on you butt though...

[mrex]

nobuddy is taking advantage of anybuddy,many of these people hunting on these farms went to school together or are relatives,like me but mike don't understand that...i was born there,grew up with many of the landowners...i know a few that will knock your socks off you come trying to buy them...ans i can prove that...:D

You bring up a good point George, (I think that's an oxymoron)? I wasn't born here and the only relatives I have in this area are my parents and they built their home on land I gave them. I had to EARN everything I have. Nobody gave me anything and I'm not dependent on my friends and relatives to take care of me.

[Bawana]

I'm not sure where or why that came up Jack, but occassionally I expect something like that out of you.....not that it makes it any less ignorant or stupid of a statement.

[jackalope]

I'm not sure where or why that came up Jack, but occassionally I expect something like that out of you.....not that it makes it any less ignorant or stupid of a statement.


See.... I told you somebody wouldn't get it right.... :nono:

If I meant it in a malicious way Bawana I would have just said it straight out.. Not put in the afore mentioned EXPLINATION of the phrase.....

It was used in a way of humanistic Irony that is difficult to express in text...

Where as mike says he has a shortage of people offering labor help, but obviously doesn't have a shortage of lips planted on his butt...


Nothing implied to the character of mike, but to the irony of man.

[Beentown]

I was waiting for it and........there it is.

Bawana I'm not sure where or why that came up Jack, but occassionally I expect something like that out of you.....not that it makes it any less ignorant or stupid of a statement.

I think Jackalope is misunderstood sometimes because he thinks of things differently...Plus he likes to poke the bear:D

Beentown

[ohiosam]

Plus he likes to poke the bear:D

Sometimes the bear pokes back;)

[jackalope]

Sometimes the bear pokes back;)


Where's my CORN Teady Bear!!

[coonskinner]

for telecheck... for leasing ...for qdm...against gamewardens coming on my place...:mischeif:

[geezer II]

Dis last years Deer Camp Korn Quhttp://www.eons.com/images/members/2008/9/15/9/6/96742512211926153221_610w.jpegeen

[deerhunt45]

Dis last years Deer Camp Korn Quhttp://www.eons.com/images/members/2008/9/15/9/6/96742512211926153221_610w.jpegeen


Congrats!!! Looks like royalty to me :D

[WhitetailFanatic]

I heard a couple weeks ago that T/C was in financial trouble, wonder if it had anything to do with this incident? Thats a shame, i kinda liked watchin game trails TV show. Don't think i can watch it now and feel the same about it!

[JD Boyd]

I heard a couple weeks ago that T/C was in financial trouble, wonder if it had anything to do with this incident? Thats a shame, i kinda liked watchin game trails TV show. Don't think i can watch it now and feel the same about it!
I heard todayT/C sold out to S-W.

[flhx1963]

Here is the statement that was released in response to what KDFWS sent out:

"Sturgis, Kentucky. April 8, 2009. - Misstatements of fact and misleading information related to a misdemeanor case involving Game Trails, a company with operations in Kentucky, has prompted this release to clarify the record.

On March 19, 2009, Game Trails, LLC, and its general manager Dirk MacTavish pled guilty to misdemeanor violations of the Lacy Act. More specifically, the violations were technical in nature and involved the mistagging and telechecking of deer. Both Game Trails and Dirk MacTavish paid fines. No other sanctions were imposed: no probation; no loss of hunting rights; and no loss of outfitter's licenses. Gregg Ritz was neither charged nor plead guilty to any violation, misdemeanor or otherwise.

At all times throughout the process, Game Trails and Dirk MacTavish were forthright and cooperated fully. The mistakes in tagging deer were admitted and the matter was resolved. As noted, only fines were paid on technical misdemeanor violations. The case has been officially closed.

The relevant facts with regards to this case can be accessed through the United States District Court, Western District of Kentucky, Owensboro. However, the same cannot be said for subsequent reports, which have been littered with half-truths and false accusations. The facts have been misconstrued and inaccurately characterized. This statement will present the truth.

In addition to the aforementioned, the relevant facts are as follows. In 2006, Games Trails was instructed by an agent of the Kentucky Department of Fish & Wildlife and mandated by the land owner Kimball International to reduce the number of deer on the property to help reduce crop damage. Game Trails had been informed by Kimball's on-site manager that the crop damage caused by deer population had resulted in Kimball International offsetting the tenant farmer's annual lease in the amount of $35,000. Authorities at Kimball advised Game Trails that its lease would be terminated if the deer population was not reduced.

In an effort to comply, Game Trails conducted the largest ever camera survey for whitetail deer in association with the Quality Deer Management Association (QDMA) to determine the proper number of deer to be harvested. A formal report was presented to Kimball International by the QDMA with a recommendation to harvest 200 deer. However the Commonwealth of Kentucky conducted an independent deer damage assessment and concluded that the harvest number was far greater than 200.

Game Trails sought the advice and cooperation of local Kentucky authorities to request and receive special consideration with the harvest process. The request for special consideration concerning the deer management program was rejected. Instead, Game Trails was informed that if it needed assistance in reducing the population, then it should consider allowing local authorities, their friends and family access to hunt. This idea was not satisfactory to Kimball.

QDMA, on behalf of Game Trails, then appealed directly to officials in Frankfort, Kentucky, the state's capitol, to request special consideration for the doe harvest. Again, Game Trails was denied special consideration and was informed no consideration would be given as long as Game Trails was in possession of the hunting lease.

Later, in 2006, Kentucky issued Game Trails several hundred Animal Control tags to accommodate the additional deer harvest requirements. The harvesting of the deer and use of the Animal Control tags were improperly managed by a former Game Trails' site manager, who applied the tags to any hunter; essentially "community tagging" the animals. The former site manager performed all operational aspects of the business and personally tagged every animal. He was later terminated for performance issues unrelated to this incident. It must be noted that no deer went unchecked and all deer were harvested by licensed hunters.

To further clarify and correct the misinformation circulating we would like the public to know the following:

• Neither Dirk MacTavish, General Manager of Game Trails, nor Gregg Ritz, owner of Games Trails, tagged or tele-checked any of the deer harvested;

• There were no charges or fines levied against Gregg Ritz;

• Neither Dirk MacTavish or Gregg Ritz made false statements to Investigators, or any other authorities;

• Neither Dirk MacTavish nor Game Trails lost their outfitting license, hunting rights or were placed on probation;

• Every deer killed was processed and given to families in need;

• With the exception of this 2006 incident, no other violations were found to have occurred during the period in which Game Trails occupied the property;

• Felony prosecution of former Game Trails' employee Chris Helms is only incidental, and is unrelated to this matter; neither Gregg Ritz nor Dirk MacTavish have any involvement with that case; and

• Kimball International sold the Sturgis, Kentucky land last November (four months prior to this event) and the new landowner chose not to sublease the hunting rights, resulting in Game Trails closing its Kentucky operation at present.

Due to the mistagging and telechecking at Game Trails, the personal and business reputations of Game Trails, Gregg Ritz and Dirk MacTavish have all been unfairly tarnished. Mistakes were made, and a fine was paid. But Game Trails and Gregg Ritz have built a name of excellence and integrity in the industry, and these technical violations should not diminish that reputation. It is unfortunate that multiple inaccuracies have worked to do just that. Basic fairness dictates that those involved should be judged on the facts of record in this case, and those facts alone. "

[jackalope]

The simple solution as the Ky DNR asked would be to let others kill the deer and stop locking up so much land, blocking other hunters and then pissing and moaning when you have too many deer. So you decide to kill for the sake of killing all those deer because of your business practices and greed.... Would it have been so damn hard to have a doe only youth hunt.. Or offer Cheap cheap management doe hunts?

You chose to fight they system. play by your own rules. and now hang some guy out to dry while the big shots attempt to separate themselves from the issue..

Classic CYA BS

Go piss down some other persons back...

[JD Boyd]

The court report released was a false report? :coco:

[Deehntr56]

To further clarify and correct the misinformation circulating we would like the public to know the following:

• Neither Dirk MacTavish, General Manager of Game Trails, nor Gregg Ritz, owner of Games Trails, tagged or tele-checked any of the deer harvested;

• There were no charges or fines levied against Gregg Ritz;

• Neither Dirk MacTavish or Gregg Ritz made false statements to Investigators, or any other authorities;

• Neither Dirk MacTavish nor Game Trails lost their outfitting license, hunting rights or were placed on probation;

• Every deer killed was processed and given to families in need;

• With the exception of this 2006 incident, no other violations were found to have occurred during the period in which Game Trails occupied the property;

• Felony prosecution of former Game Trails' employee Chris Helms is only incidental, and is unrelated to this matter; neither Gregg Ritz nor Dirk MacTavish have any involvement with that case; and

• Kimball International sold the Sturgis, Kentucky land last November (four months prior to this event) and the new landowner chose not to sublease the hunting rights, resulting in Game Trails closing its Kentucky operation at present.

Due to the mistagging and telechecking at Game Trails, the personal and business reputations of Game Trails, Gregg Ritz and Dirk MacTavish have all been unfairly tarnished. Mistakes were made, and a fine was paid. But Game Trails and Gregg Ritz have built a name of excellence and integrity in the industry, and these technical violations should not diminish that reputation. It is unfortunate that multiple inaccuracies have worked to do just that. Basic fairness dictates that those involved should be judged on the facts of record in this case, and those facts alone. "


Agree there Jlope.

My question is simple: Facts are Facts!

Why if they are so innocent, are they clearing out of Kentucky and coming to Ohio?????:whistle::D

Were running for a reason!!!:mischeif:

[JD Boyd]

Agree there Jlope.

My question is simple: Facts are Facts!

Why if they are so innocent, are they clearing out of Kentucky and coming to Ohio?????:whistle::D

Were running for a reason!!!:mischeif:
I just read on archery talk the land owner sold the ground and the new owner would not lease to them.

[JD Boyd]

I also see that T/C put out a statement having no involvement with Game Trails LLC outfitters. Sounds like they must have been getting a lot of harrasment over this ordeal.

[Deehntr56]

I just read on archery talk the land owner sold the ground and the new owner would not lease to them.

Looks like they didn't want anything to do with them.:whistle:

So why Ohio???:confused:

Illinois is a good state.....

Now let's look a little further.... Kimball Inc. here is involved with many Business ventures here in Ohio, Kimball Concrete, Kimball Recycling, Kimball Refuse collection, etc......the Kimball Family of Ohio owns all of these.

They also own lots of property here, private land, throughout the central and southern portion of the state.

I know of a few tracts of land they have that are in the thousands of acres....

I wonder if Kimball International in Kentucky was part of this family venture, and they have property here for them?:confused::confused:;)

[redcloud102]

Like 56 said why are they running out and coming here. If they are so cozy with KDNR and QDMA you can't tell me they couldn't have found another property to keep them in Kentucky. I also wonder why there big money couldn't get the new property owners to lease to them. Something sounds a little off with the whole thing if you ask me.

[Bawana]

The group in Ohio is spelled Kimble.

[ohiosam]

So why Ohio???:confused:

Why not? (from Game Trails POV)

Probably the biggest reason might have been something as simple as they found a big piece of ground that was available.

[Mountaineer]

You guys thought you were having too many hunters coming into the state? You havent seen anything yet..Once these guys get filming on their new Ohio lease...the state of Ohio will never be the same....Land will get so locked up so fast..It will be sick.

Greg ritz will end up ruining Ohio and the days of of available land for all to hunt will be over....They will advertise Ohio to death with all their big talk about their Bucks grown like vegatables... They did it to kentucky ..they'll doit to Ohio. Those TV guys make me sick how they exploit the sport of Hunting....They line their pockets off of hunters and it pisses me off:irked:

[deerhunt45]

You guys thought you were having too many hunters coming into the state? You havent seen anything yet..Once these guys get filming on their new Ohio lease...the state of Ohio will never be the same....Land will get so locked up so fast..It will be sick.

Greg ritz will end up ruining Ohio and the days of of available land for all to hunt will be over....They will advertise Ohio to death with all their big talk about their Bucks grown like vegatables... They did it to kentucky ..they'll doit to Ohio. Those TV guys make me sick how they exploit the sport of Hunting....They line their pockets off of hunters and it pisses me off:irked:

Only if you let them :mischeif:

They are still a minority...one man can't ruin an entire state.

[coonskinner]

a lot of the management boys have laughed and cut me to ribbons for years...and i've always maintained that the bigger companies would come to ohio if they kept growing these big bucks...a lot of them will be squeezed out but i predict some will invest in these larger companies just to keep on...keeping on...i have said over and over we will be very sorry if this ends up being another texas...like illinois went...i've hunted in texas 10 yrs...and you either have enough money to hunt the poor mans leases or you have money to hunt the rich boys leases...or you don't hunt...theres very little and very poor quality public hunting in texas...public land has very few hunters and very few deer...its sad that ohio hunters started this thing...even sadder when ohio hunters started charging other hunters to hunt...:D

[antiqucycle]

If I was a game warden, and knew the story on these guys, I would checking the film crew for non resident licenses and deer permits since they are assisting in the hunt. a little hassle goes a long way. I have run into out of state guys, not carrying guns, that were putting on drives for "relatives". in mentioning hunting licenses, they got nervous because they did not have nr licenses. and they never heard of written permission.

That brings up an interesting question. If some guys lease property and sell hunting rights, do the actual hunters need written permission from the lease guy or from the landowner? I think the law says owner.

[Deehntr56]

Time to raise the NR Fees:biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:

[coonskinner]

Time to raise the NR Fees:biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:our problems started with some of our resident hunters knocking on doors of farmers convincing them to lease their property...most of these farmers would never have got into leasing for hunting on their own...thats where the original blame goes...:biggrin:

[Mountaineer]

45..

You would be surprised what One man can do..History has shown us One man can destroy an enitre nation. :yikes:

The Power of marketing/advertising is effective. Just watch..You will see what im talking about in 3 or 4 years.;)

[coonskinner]

Only if you let them :mischeif:

They are still a minority...one man can't ruin an entire state.all you got to do is look to illinois 45...started little,ended big...:Di hope youre right but look at the ones that have said here that its here to stay...basiclly saying if you don't have the money then you can't play...

[mrex]

You guys thought you were having too many hunters coming into the state? You havent seen anything yet..Once these guys get filming on their new Ohio lease...the state of Ohio will never be the same....Land will get so locked up so fast..It will be sick.

Greg ritz will end up ruining Ohio and the days of of available land for all to hunt will be over....They will advertise Ohio to death with all their big talk about their Bucks grown like vegatables... They did it to kentucky ..they'll doit to Ohio. Those TV guys make me sick how they exploit the sport of Hunting....They line their pockets off of hunters and it pisses me off:irked:


Photograghs like this;

http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p90/PupFan1/CCF04102009_00000.jpg

have done more to attract out of state hunters than any TV show Greg Ritz is capable of putting out there. And anybody that thinks Ohio is some kind of trophy hunting secret is fooling themselves. All the more reason to raise the rates on our out of state guests.

The only reason leasing has been slow to catch on in the buckeye state when compared to some others is because we have very few large private land owners. Our states rural ground is broken up into a checker board of small properties, (usually less than 100 acres). Once the Mead Corporation, our one time largest land holder, took the majority of their ground out of the public hunting coop and started leasing, (just like every other paper company in America), the domino's began to fall.

For those of you who don't like the concept of lease hunting, in the coming years you'll have 4 options each fall - 1) lease or join a hunt club, 2) buy or maybe or if you're lucky, inherit some land, 3) hunt public ground or 4) watch football.

[Rip5]

For an ugly guy, Mike is right.............:mischeif:

[deerhunt45]

For those of you who don't like the concept of lease hunting, in the coming years you'll have 4 options each fall - 1) lease or join a hunt club, 2) buy or maybe or if you're lucky, inheret some land, 3) hunt public ground or 4) watch football.

Well Mike, thanks for telling it like it is...

So we really are going to end up like Illinois...:(

"Coming years", like 5 or 10 do you think or sooner?

Fortunately, I don't think I'll be shut out of my measly 400 acres I have to hunt. I'm lucky. While I guess everyone pays in some way shape or form for a place to hunt, whether it's licenses and tags and taxes for public land or work, donations,friendship, fees or mortgages and taxes for private land. I just hope it doesn't escalate to where the average joe can't afford it, can't find a place to bowhunt and says screw it, I quit. Everybody loses then.

Like I've stated before, I don't know what to think about the leasing issue. I believe in the capitalist and entreprenureal spirit and the ones who do things the right way. What I hate is the corporate greed we see in America right now.

[coonskinner]

i know some will be in heaven or own their own land or hop in and join some of these bigger companies...when they arrive...guess what ...small time leases will be very hard to find...and yes we are very lucky to have very good public land despite what some here might lead you to think...for obvious reasons mostly rhyming with money...as i have said before...i hope we get more public hunting,with all this pay to hunt coming up we're going to need it for quality hunting...i am very disgusted with all those hunters that have put ohio in this situation...they'll know how it feels when they lose their lease to someone with deeper pockets...then they'll be:irked:...me i'll have my slice of the pie...so i'll be ok...but i'm not all about me or how much i can make...i do what i can to help others have what i have enjoyed for years...to bad some did not want to pass that on to future generations...:D

[Mountaineer]

Ill hunt publicland...You'll never catch me in a lease..outfitter..private.

Im strictly publicland only and will never shell out money to hunt..it takes something away from the purity of hunting. I will never buy my success..My success will come from land that all can hunt.

Hey Coonie..are we gonna hook up next week..ill be in Ohio all week for spring birds...maybe you can give me some pointers on ohio turks..Doesnt seem like ohio has many birds...every bird i heard had a couple guys working it last year....i never really found a bird that wasnt being called to...I give Ohio a D- for turkeys.:D

[coonskinner]

Ill hunt publicland...You'll never catch me in a lease..outfitter..private.

Im strictly publicland only and will never shell out money to hunt..it takes something away from the purity of hunting. I will never buy my success..My success will come from land that all can hunt.

Hey Coonie..are we gonna hook up next week..ill be in Ohio all week for spring birds...maybe you can give me some pointers on ohio turks..Doesnt seem like ohio has many birds...every bird i heard had a couple guys working it last year....i never really found a bird that wasnt being called to...I give Ohio a D- for turkeys.:D
i'm going down early in the morning to listen to turk music way back up in squaller holler...so tomorrow i'll know a little more...i do know we seen a lot of turks during archery season...i will be able to get down there nearly every weekend...anybuddy is welcome if they want to check it out...bring a fishing pole and knee high boots too...:D

[mrex]

..Doesnt seem like ohio has many birds...every bird i heard had a couple guys working it last year....i never really found a bird that wasnt being called to...I give Ohio a D- for turkeys.:D

Ohio has plenty of turkeys. It seems to me that you're getting what you pay for.

[Kaiser878]

The group in Ohio is spelled Kimble.

hahaha owning enough land to cover 4 or 5 full counties in ohio I would say thats a good start! You know, Doris lives about 5 miles from me and I hear she is single! Now if I were smart I would swing over there tonight and woah her with my unmatched charm and good looks! Then I too could own a large mass of land in ohio! They always said, marry for money, not love!!!!! Think people would talk? I can read the headlines now, 25 y/o male marries 90 y/o Kimble land heir! Just a thought!

[Mountaineer]

mrex..

It just means that ill have to hunt alittle harder....last year was my first year to hunt Spring birds in Ohio...I spent alot of time hunting poor areas..Its not easy coming to a new state..not knowing anybody and starting off fresh...Hopefully this year i'll be in better areas..I wont succomb to priavteland ..or big leases like yourself:D. I play on a level field.;)

I garuntee ill have 2 publicland birds by the end of the week...not bad for a $140.00 license investment:D

[deerhunt45]

i know some will be in heaven or own their own land or hop in and join some of these bigger companies...when they arrive...guess what ...small time leases will be very hard to find...and yes we are very lucky to have very good public land despite what some here might lead you to think...for obvious reasons mostly rhyming with money...as i have said before...i hope we get more public hunting,with all this pay to hunt coming up we're going to need it for quality hunting...i am very disgusted with all those hunters that have put ohio in this situation...they'll know how it feels when they lose their lease to someone with deeper pockets...then they'll be:irked:...me i'll have my slice of the pie...so i'll be ok...but i'm not all about me or how much i can make...i do what i can to help others have what i have enjoyed for years...to bad some did not want to pass that on to future generations...:D


Good post.
Like I said, I'm lucky. I don't lease, never have. The only land I own is the suburban lot my house sits on. Heck, I got squeezed out of my rural hunting spots close to home by a leasor 10 years ago. Again, I feel I'm one of the lucky ones right now who still has a choice.

Public land in our state is a great fallback option, and a challenging one at that. As a whole, it's would say it's under rated and will remain so, at least for bowhunters. If leasing gets out of hand in Ohio, we will lose bowhunters therefore the demand goes down for both private and public opportunities. Just my .02

[Bawana]

If you'll have two public land birds in a week, why would you give a state a D-?

[ohio guy]

I guess he will just spend 60 straight hours in the woods til he gets it done, thats only 2.33 per hour, what a deal.....lol:rolleyes:

[Mountaineer]

Because its gonna take me a week to doit:D

[Bucko]

The land I hunt is 1400 acres on one side of the road and 550 acres on the other.No fee a little good will now and then .Its has been put in a trust and will pay its own way thru timber a gas for years to come ,the guys that hunt it now have a life time permit.For fall a back I got a call from a man yesterday in OLd Washington and told me the 2 of us are welcome to hunt his land also.Kind of nice that there is still people that let us NR's hunt and hunt free.We just play by thier rules.You will never stop the $$ or the greed ,just hope it doesn't eat you up.BB

Coonie we are still planning on a trip to see your deer camp!

[Thunderflight]

mrex..

It just means that ill have to hunt alittle harder....last year was my first year to hunt Spring birds in Ohio...I spent alot of time hunting poor areas..Its not easy coming to a new state..not knowing anybody and starting off fresh...Hopefully this year i'll be in better areas..I wont succomb to priavteland ..or big leases like yourself:D. I play on a level field.;)

I garuntee ill have 2 publicland birds by the end of the week...not bad for a $140.00 license investment:D

I think I have an ideal for my next pole.

[ohiosam]

I think I have an ideal for my next pole.

TF, you must be usin Coonie's spell checker.

:confused: :mischeif: :D

[Deehntr56]

mrex..
I garuntee ill have 2 publicland birds by the end of the week...not bad for a $140.00 license investment:D

Another reason to increase the NR License rates.:biggrin:

[mrex]

another reason to increase the nr license rates.:biggrin:


That's good!

[coonskinner]

TF, you must be usin Coonie's spell checker.

:confused: :mischeif: :Dcoonie isn't the one to blast any more because of the way he spells...funny i'm the only one that got blasted for that...:D

[geezer II]

coonie isn't the one to blast any more because of the way he spells...funny i'm the only one that got blasted for that...:D

Ain't dat Ritz cracker frum down around Nelsonvill :confused:

[coonskinner]

If I was a game warden, and knew the story on these guys, I would checking the film crew for non resident licenses and deer permits since they are assisting in the hunt. a little hassle goes a long way. I have run into out of state guys, not carrying guns, that were putting on drives for "relatives". in mentioning hunting licenses, they got nervous because they did not have nr licenses. and they never heard of written permission.

That brings up an interesting question. If some guys lease property and sell hunting rights, do the actual hunters need written permission from the lease guy or from the landowner? I think the law says owner.game wardens need to watch all of the leasing/owning for management places...many think on their own land the law does not pertain to them...or the law tends to overlook them...i see this is changing and i do agree with the changes...the odnr needs more info on who owns or leases...not just pieces of paper for a tag...:biggrin: