870 vs 500

[Cap't Ernie]

No cheetos, no "other", just which do you think is the better gun.

A great case and history of the 870.

http://www.fieldandstream.com/articles/guns/shotguns/2007/08/it-always-goes-bang?#

I vote 870, there's two in my house :D


Capt

[redcloud102]

I have shot both and would rather have the 500 myself. It just fit and handled better for me.

[Thunderflight]

I own to 500's, but IMO the 870 is a better gun. Don't get me wrong I love both my 500's, but the 870 is just nicer.

[coonskinner]

i have never owned a 500 or shot one but have owned a lot of 870s...i know those that have had 500s and loved em...but my vote goes for 870s...seems the gunstore personel always advised it over the 500...:D

[ohiosam]

If the choice is between a 500 and an 870 Wingmaster. I'll take the Wingmaster.
If the choice is between a 500 and an 870 Left Hand. I'll take the Left Hand.
If the choice is between a 500 and an 870 Express. That is a much tougher choice.

Things I like about the 500
Tang safety
Double action bars
500 is smoother out of the box

Things I don't like about the 500
Aluminum receiver
Plastic parts in the safety

Things I like about the Express
Steel receiver
The way they fit me.

Things I don't like about the Express
Finish is prone to rust
QC at Remington seems to have slipped recently

They are really pretty equal in quality. Most of the differences are miner (to me) except for the 500 tang safety and smoothness and the way the Express fits me. For wingshooting I got to go with the Express just because of the way it fits me. For a deer/turkey gun I'd probably go with the 500.

[Buck101]

I own both, the 500 sits in the corner and the 870 and 1187 get used all the time. in my opinion theri is no comparison between the two. the 870 is hands down a better gun than the 500. i have been so frustrated with the 500s i have just about thrown them over the hill. theres a reason there cheap

[jackalope]

It's funny I hear arguments about the 870 and peoples preferances... Just because someone "prefers" a gun doesn't make it the best gun.. Facts make it the best gun.. Lets look at a few of them now...


Round 1


The tang safety on a Mossberg is far superior. In a tactical situation with an 870 from the standard at the ready position with the index finger extended along the frame the 870 requires 4 movements to fire.

1. Move the finger from the side of the frame to behind the trigger guard.
2. Press the safety off
3. move the index finger back to the trigger
4. squeeze and bang.

Te Mossberg requires only 2 movements of the trigger finger
1. Move the finger fron the side of the frame to the trigger
2. Squeeze and bang

The Mossberg carried with the safety on requires the same index finger movement to fire as the 870 does with the safety off. Also the Mossberg is a left hand friendly safety

Mossberg 1 --- Remington 0


Round 2

Remington has a “metal” trigger group Mossberg has a “plastic” trigger group

This is true to an extent… If you have purchased an 870 past year 2004 your trigger group is “plastic” just like a Mossberg’s.. Incidentally Mossberg and Remington Went to the “plastic” trigger group about the same time.. It isn’t actually plastic it’s polymer just like a Glock, SPfld XD Etc.. Both guns prior had aluminum trigger groups… You can still buy / get the 870 and 500 with metal trigger groups.

Tie Mossberg 2 – Remmington 1

Round 3.

Remington has a steel frame and Mossbergs is Aluminum..

And your point is.. Honda has a steel block and a corvette has an aluminum one…

There are just as many well used Mossberg’s out there as there are Remington’s both are very durable metals and are resistant to wear.. This isn’t soda can aluminum we’re talking about here people .

I still say tie as one doesn’t provide a clear advantage in functuality or longevity over the other

Tie Mossberg 3 – Remmington 2


Round 4.

The Mossberg has 2 shell extraction grips to Remington’s 1….

2 is always better than 1

Mossberg 4 – Remmington 2


Round 5

Price…

870™ Express® Combo w/ Extra Deer Barrel = $556 The Mossberg Combo with the Extra deer barrel is $385. That’s 171 dollars more for the 870.. Must cost a bunch to Mill out that no advantage receiver out of a billet of steel.


Mossberg 5 – Remmington 2


Round 6

Pump Release.

The Mossberg’s pump release is in a place that doesn’t require releasing the weapon with the firing hand to activate the slide.. The 870 requires you to release your grip on the stock slide your hand forward and around and push up…

So what some say.. It doesn’t bother me I only need it to unload at the truck


OK how about this you come around a corner and wham goblin zombie coming at you (after you do you 4 finger move to deactivate the safty) CLICK.. you either have a misfire or in the heat of the moment you forgot to load the chamber……

With a Mossberg you move only your trigger finger behind the trigger guard push up and rack the slide.

With a remmington you have to completely release your grip on the firearm. Slide your hand forward around the trigger guard to the other side press up and rack the slide back. But you can’t rack the slide forward again until you have replaced your grip on the firearm…

This could also be beneficial where you have a less than lethal in the chamber and lethal in the magazine tube… The situation goes from attempts to neutralize to deadly force in a split second when the goblin zombie pulls a firearm.. Who’s chambering the buckshot faster your remmy or the mossy?

Mossberg 6 – Remington 2



Round 7

Barrel Porting

The Mossberg comes with a ported barrel to reduce muzzle jump and the blast from blowing by the shot-cup disrupting it’s flight. The Remington doesn’t have it as an option..


Mossberg 7 – Remington 2


Round 8.

Important to Ohio is combo shotguns that have rifled slug barrels. The Mossy is drilled and tapped for a scope mount from the factory.. You Remington guys will need a gunsmith to drill and tap that steel receiver for you. Apparently Remington thinks milling that hunk of steel costs enough already why drill and tap it.

Mossberg 8 – Remington 2


Round 9

Dual-Comb stocks..

The Mossy deer / field Combo comes with 2 interchangeable cheek combs. 1 low for use of iron sites or bead.. The other higher to align your eye with a mounted optic.. Standard feature on Mossberg Combos.. The Remmy, you’ll need to buy a slip on or lace on pad to raise the comb

Mossberg 9 – Remington 2




I’m tired you get the point. I’m not going into MIM extractors and internal parts… But as you can see it's no wonder the Mossberg is the Shotgun of choice for The US Armed forces. And foreign militaries the world round.

Also the Mossberg was the only gun to pass the US Army's Grueling Mil-Spec 3443E test

[Gern186]

Thanks,

I am going to sell all my remington guns and buy mossbergs:whistle:

[jackalope]

Thanks,

I am going to sell all my remington guns and buy mossbergs:whistle:

Nah, just replace it with a Mossberg when it breaks.

[Cap't Ernie]

Nah, just replace it with a Mossberg when it breaks.

Uh, Jack that's kinda the point. They don't break.

Do you have a specific number on how many 500's have been made?

[ohiosam]

Do you have a specific number on how many 500's have been made?

How many sold really doesn't have anything to do with which is best. If you have a McDonalds and a really good restaurant in your town the McDs will probably have more customers. Ford probably sold more Pintos or Chevy more Vegas(those cars were crap for you younger guys) then all Mercedes models. Mossy is the cheapest, granted it's a good gun for the money but many people buy them just on price alone.

[jackalope]

Uh, Jack that's kinda the point. They don't break.

Do you have a specific number on how many 500's have been made?

I have a call in with Mossberg sales. We'll see how long that takes. one thing you have to remember though is Mossberg it the market in Late 1961 the 870 has been around since 1950.. I we compare the time on shelf to time on shelf the Mossy is winning.. Like Sam said though, it's a moot point in reality. The number sold has nothing to do with it being the better gun.. I am sure the Winchester 97 or the Ithaca 37 could post numbers to put the Mossberg and Remmy to shame.

Mossberg also invented the Cantilever slug barrel. Which Remington copied..

Mossberg also invented the first Muzzleloading barrel with 209 primers that can go on your mossy shotgun for the nominal price of 100 dollars. <----- That alone in Ohio makes it the better gun IMO........

http://images.outdoorinteractive.net/mgen/292060_d.jpg?is=200,200,0xffffff&cvt=jpg

Mossberg also makes replacement barrels for the 870..

[FredT]

How much is dead horse meat going for today? If you like your Rem you will praise it. If you like your Moss you will praise it. Who cares which is best. Who always buys something because it is the best. We can not always afford what is best, that is why they make Mossbergs.:whistle:

[jeffmo]

It's funny I hear arguments about the 870 and peoples preferances... Just because someone "prefers" a gun doesn't make it the best gun.. Facts make it the best gun.. Lets look at a few of them now...


Round 1


The tang safety on a Mossberg is far superior. In a tactical situation with an 870 from the standard at the ready position with the index finger extended along the frame the 870 requires 4 movements to fire.

1. Move the finger from the side of the frame to behind the trigger guard.
2. Press the safety off
3. move the index finger back to the trigger
4. squeeze and bang.

Te Mossberg requires only 2 movements of the trigger finger
1. Move the finger fron the side of the frame to the trigger
2. Squeeze and bang

The Mossberg carried with the safety on requires the same index finger movement to fire as the 870 does with the safety off. Also the Mossberg is a left hand friendly safety

i've never had to use 4 movements on my 870 safety.
i don't use the point of my index finger to switch it though.pressure from the inside of my trigger finger switches the safety.then it's simply squeezing the trigger.
the up side to the 870 safety is that some people feel that it's less likey to be accidently switched to the off position verses the tang safeties.
to me it's just a simple matter of choice and what a person prefers.what works for one person might bug the hell out of someone else.
the mossbergs will put down a deer though!

[uglykat26]

im a die hard mossberg man always have always will shoot mossbergs

[FredT]

The Mossberg does not put down the deer, it is the shot placement and the round you use that puts down the deer.:whistle:

[jeffmo]

The Mossberg does not put down the deer, it is the shot placement and the round you use that puts down the deer.:whistle:

okay,:bouncy::bouncy:

[deerhunt45]

I have one of each. I like both of them.

jack, you posted up a good argument for Mossberg. Haven't handled or shot any new Remingtons or Mossbergs for that matter...is Remington's quality slipping and how/why is Mossberg beating them so bad in pricing? I've had my 870 combo for quiet awhile and haven't had the first problem with it.

[coonskinner]

the rap i always hear when i'm at the gunshop deciding which one,last time i looked the express was about the same cost as the lower grade mossberg,is that the mossberg action is looser and sloppier...i have heard this at every store i was in...they didnt say this hurt anything but they advised the express for this reason...is the express sloppy too...yes,but not as sloppy...but who cares,i've had my express since they 1st made them,no problem ...i believe i paid 200$ possibly less for it...:D

[Deehntr56]

I don't know.....my 870 Wingmaster just knocks deer down year after year...one of my top 3 favorite guns.

I set it up strictly for Deer Hunting and have never looked back.

Fits nice, shoots great, never...ever had a malfunction...and won't trade it for anything.

Action and function of the gun performs flawlessly, year after year.

I do take great care of my guns, to minimize issues too.

My friend tried to get me to buy the Benelli Black Eagle.....all said...$2,000+ when set up with a rifled barrel and leupold scope.

I said, go ahead....I still out shoot him with that set up.....

I even shot a Very nice 8 point a few years back, in the heart at 142 yards. Deer took I bound and fell in a pile.

Yes..I said 142 yards.....rangefinder verified the distance.

Shot several 75-110 yards as well. Many others at closer ranges too.

To me...it's a slam dunk...love the 870.

[ohiosam]

You guys can fight about your 870s and Mossys.

I'll just keep my Ithacas and BPSs, the finest field pump guns ever made. BTW they were designed by John Moses Browning, enough said!:cheeky-smiley-022:

[Cap't Ernie]

The 870 doesn't need a case to be voted as better :D but here's a few things.

From the Remington site:

"If the Model 870 were introduced today, it would be hailed as a major advance in pump-action shotgun design- the ultimate in strength, durability, silk-smooth bind-free action, and seek classical lines"

Under the 870's history Remington calls is "The greatest selling pump action shotgun in the history of firearms", introduced in 1951 with over 8 million produced since then. They list a bunch of different models (example: magnum, trap grade), basically all the different combinations with the gauges (12, 16, 20, 28, 410)...there are 146 of them.

Jack's Arguments..
1. Safety: I can do the "four" movements that are required to turn the safety off while I'm pulling to gun off my hip to my shoulder in one, fluid motion. In the example of a "tactical situation", I think the safety goes off as soon as you pick up the gun before you leave the bedroom, enter the house, etc. Just don't pull the trigger (duh) which is really no different than a S&W M and P or a Glock. In the field, I've never had a problem turning the safety off upon see a deer or turkey. Non-Issue.

2. We can "tie" on the frame if you want. But the truth of the matter is steel is better than aluminum...period. As for the "honda" and "corvette" example, I've never seen a Corvette with 300,000 miles.

5. Price. 500's are cheaper because you're getting a cheaper product (duh!). I'm going to pay more for a gun that I'm going to use for almost all of my hunting and home defense because it's a gun that I trust. How many guys settle for a Jennings 9mm over a Ruger? Hi-point over Kimber? You get what you pay for.

4 and 6. Shell extraction grips. We've talked about this before and you're right...I only unload it at the truck or in the woods when my hunt is over 'cause there's a dead critter there! :biggrin: In a tactical situation, I hope you're not using reloaded ammo that is going to misfire and I hope you're smart enough to chamber a shell. If you're not smart enough to do both, buy a Mossberg.

7. Barrel Porting. Never heard of this. Doesn't make a difference.

8. Slug barrels. If you're going to buy an 870 with a slug barrel and want a scope, buy a cantilever barrel. You can also buy 870's that are tapped and drilled.

9. Dual-comb stocks...when you get down to arguing this, you're running out of things....

Glad you're not going into internal parts and have retired the "double arm pump" argument....

Cap't

[Deehntr56]

You guys can fight about your 870s and Mossys.

I'll just keep my Ithacas and BPSs, the finest field pump guns ever made. BTW they were designed by John Moses Browning, enough said!:cheeky-smiley-022:

No fighting here...I have Ithaca's and the gun that I shoot very well for clays and Birds is a Browning...love them also....

I just like them all...:biggrin:

In fact there Ohiosam...you wan to get a new Ithaca with me? 28 Guage in AAA grade....

We got the ok from them today to buy direct.....

[deerhunt45]

Ernie, you're a bulldog :D

I'm fortunate to have the quality guns I have. I plan on keeping them for a long time :coolgleamA:

[jeffmo]

Ernie, you're a bulldog :D

I'm fortunate to have the quality guns I have. I plan on keeping them for a long time :coolgleamA:

that is the important thing.
i took good advice from my father years ago.i told him i was going to buy a 12 gauge pump gun and he said that if i wanted one that'd outlast me then i should buy an 870 wingmaster.
again though,it's all about personal preference.

[jackalope]

The 870 doesn't need a case to be voted as better :D but here's a few things.

From the Remington site:

"If the Model 870 were introduced today, it would be hailed as a major advance in pump-action shotgun design- the ultimate in strength, durability, silk-smooth bind-free action, and seek classical lines"

Speculative

Under the 870's history Remington calls is "The greatest selling pump action shotgun in the history of firearms", introduced in 1951 with over 8 million produced since then. They list a bunch of different models (example: magnum, trap grade), basically all the different combinations with the gauges (12, 16, 20, 28, 410)...there are 146 of them.

The same can be said for the mossy Except for the 1950 part, it's 1961 for the mossy

Jack's Arguments..
1. Safety: I can do the "four" movements that are required to turn the safety off while I'm pulling to gun off my hip to my shoulder in one, fluid motion. In the example of a "tactical situation", I think the safety goes off as soon as you pick up the gun before you leave the bedroom, enter the house, etc. Just don't pull the trigger (duh) which is really no different than a S&W M and P or a Glock. In the field, I've never had a problem turning the safety off upon see a deer or turkey. Non-Issue.

You argument can be made the same for the Mossy.. Safety off is safety off.. Just because you decide not to use it doesn't make it better. The fact is still when activating or deactivating the safety Mossberg requires half the movement and time. The mossberg doesn't require "fine motor skills to deactivate the safety in a heat of the moment scenario.


2. We can "tie" on the frame if you want. But the truth of the matter is steel is better than aluminum...period. As for the "honda" and "corvette" example, I've never seen a Corvette with 300,000 miles.

Not necessarily Steel may be better, but titanium is better than that.. IMO on the gun it's a moot point. That is unless you are doing a Perry left or right to block a thrust of a bayonet. But for use I have seen plenty of old mossberg for sale with no more wear than an 870s frame. IMO it's still a tie.

5. Price. 500's are cheaper because you're getting a cheaper product (duh!). I'm going to pay more for a gun that I'm going to use for almost all of my hunting and home defense because it's a gun that I trust. How many guys settle for a Jennings 9mm over a Ruger? Hi-point over Kimber? You get what you pay for.

You don't always get what you pay for sometimes you just pay more.. 3 years ago a Chevy truck loaded cost you close to 44,000 i can get the same truck today for 23,000 3 years ago was i getting what I paid for?? It's the same truck.. Cost difference can be accounted for in milling a solid billet of steel into a receiver that we have already discussed isn't a benefit.


4 and 6. Shell extraction grips. We've talked about this before and you're right...I only unload it at the truck or in the woods when my hunt is over 'cause there's a dead critter there! :biggrin: In a tactical situation, I hope you're not using reloaded ammo that is going to misfire and I hope you're smart enough to chamber a shell. If you're not smart enough to do both, buy a Mossberg.

The argument still stands.. How about the chamber stop on a Nova's pump that is all the rage now.. Why did they need it....... So people could manually slide back the pump to eject a shell, the chamber stop prevents another shell from jumping out of the tube.. This is so a duck hunter with geese coming in can jack out a shell, and hand load a 3.5 BB load.. Before he did all this he needed to do what.. That’s right hit the pump release.. Which BTW on a Nova is also in front of the trigger guard.. But at least it's on the right side of the gun.

7. Barrel Porting. Never heard of this. Doesn't make a difference.

Tons of info on it out there. Why do expensive turk chokes come ported. 1 to reduce muzzle flip. 2. to prevent the blast from passing the shotcup and throwing off the shot.

8. Slug barrels. If you're going to buy an 870 with a slug barrel and want a scope, buy a cantilever barrel. You can also buy 870's that are tapped and drilled.

But Mossberg Invented the Cantilever barrel. And the .50 muzzleloader barrel, and makes barrels for the 870... And they cost 33% less. They still win

9. Dual-comb stocks...when you get down to arguing this, you're running out of things....

Have you ever used a higher comb stock on a scope mounted slug gun.. It's the cats ass.

Glad you're not going into internal parts and have retired the "double arm pump" argument....

I was wrong on that..

Cap't


.....

[antiqucycle]

I own 1 mossy, the ultra cheapo Maverick, set up with a pistol grip, 18"barrel heat shroud. sling bandoleer etc, and the original plastic stocks because I bought it dirt cheap at a small coonhunter gathering. something very short for "home defense"
the maverick has the single op rod. sloppy as can be.
I have eight 870's and have sold another 5 for nice profits. along with some 1100's and a 1187 trap model.
I would never buy another mossy unless the price was $75 or less.

[Hiller]

[QUOTE=jackalope;329895]

2 is always better than 1


Not necessarily


870™ Express® Combo w/ Extra Deer Barrel = $556 The Mossberg Combo with the Extra deer barrel is $385. That’s 171 dollars more for the 870.. Must cost a bunch to Mill out that no advantage receiver out of a billet of steel.

Get what you pay for...


Pump Release.

The Mossberg’s pump release is in a place that doesn’t require releasing the weapon with the firing hand to activate the slide.. The 870 requires you to release your grip on the stock slide your hand forward and around and push up…

So what some say.. It doesn’t bother me I only need it to unload at the truck


OK how about this you come around a corner and wham goblin zombie coming at you (after you do you 4 finger move to deactivate the safty) CLICK.. you either have a misfire or in the heat of the moment you forgot to load the chamber……

With a Mossberg you move only your trigger finger behind the trigger guard push up and rack the slide.

With a remmington you have to completely release your grip on the firearm. Slide your hand forward around the trigger guard to the other side press up and rack the slide back. But you can’t rack the slide forward again until you have replaced your grip on the firearm…

This could also be beneficial where you have a less than lethal in the chamber and lethal in the magazine tube… The situation goes from attempts to neutralize to deadly force in a split second when the goblin zombie pulls a firearm.. Who’s chambering the buckshot faster your remmy or the mossy?

Mossberg 6 – Remington 2


As soon as the trigger is pulled the action releases and allows for a shell to be cycled... invalid arguement


Mossbergs are decently built guns, not arguing that, but I must say hands down the Remingtons are far more reliable... remember the government goes with the lowest bidder that meets requirements... :D

I have owned both and I never had so many cycling problems as I did with my two 500's... lots of slop in the front end... just a bad gun over... I personally like the Remington much better...

Thats just me...

[Cap't Ernie]

Jack,

We're not going to talk about vehicle depreciation, doing a "Perry right or left" (although you're a BA in my book if you're blocking bayonet shots with your 500...my only question is why did ya let 'em get that close :D), muzzleloaders, cat's asses, etc.

It's personal opinion. I think the poll at the top is hard to argue with.

[wildohio22]

im happy with my ithica, i sold my mossy to get it.... but between the 870 or the 500, id go with the 500, they're like the tippmann 98 customs of shotguns, easy to use, clean, shoot, and from the ones ive owned and seen others own they're reliable. everyone has there own preference and favorites, but ive seen a 500 drop a deer as well as any 870 out there, plus they already come tapped for scope mounts + plenty of other upgrades at a good afforadable price.

[Cap't Ernie]

they're like the tippmann 98 customs of shotguns, easy to use, clean, shoot, and from the ones ive owned and seen others own they're reliable.

I got a chuckle out of that one. I'd say the 870 is the Tippmann, and 500 is a brass eagle. Maybe a spider.

[ap0317ah]

Both have their advantages and disavatages but all of the shotguns in our safe are 870s. two 20s and two 12s. The one thing that dislike about the 500s is the where the slide release is but everyone else seems to love it. I also hate tang safelys. go figure
Tom

[jackalope]

Jack,

We're not going to talk about vehicle depreciation, doing a "Perry right or left" (although you're a BA in my book if you're blocking bayonet shots with your 500...my only question is why did ya let 'em get that close :D), muzzleloaders, cat's asses, etc.

It's personal opinion. I think the poll at the top is hard to argue with.

The poll shows mere personal preference. You have 33 votes and only maybe 3 people who stated "facts" to support it. But I have provided you with tons of facts saying it’s the better gun.

[tightline]

Blah,Blah,Blah I will take the 870 I have owned both the 870 is far more superior to the 500,there is a reason why it is the most popular pump gun.Didn't we have this thread once before.

[tightline]

The only thing that top mount safety is good for is getting debris in and sticking.That has happened on mine at least a couple of times in the field.My 870 safety is far better.:whistle:

[jackalope]

The only thing that top mount safety is good for is getting debris in and sticking.That has happened on mine at least a couple of times in the field.My 870 safety is far better.:whistle:

That’s a first in the 12 years I’ve owned mossbergs and my dads that is 36 years old has never had a safety stick... And I can honestly say i have never cleaned my safety

[jackalope]

Also, for all you Mossberg haters out there..

I've been looking for a 835 ultra-Mag... If you have one of these that you hate so much just sitting in a safe all jammed up with sloppy pumps and safeties.. I'll be willing to take it off your hands.... You know release you from the evil that is Mossberg.

[tcountyhunter]

My hunting buddy and I bought our first guns around the same time... I bought an 870 he went with a 500...My 870 hasn't had a problem yet his 500 on the otherhand has given him nothing but problems

[jackalope]

My hunting buddy and I bought our first guns around the same time... I bought an 870 he went with a 500...My 870 hasn't had a problem yet his 500 on the otherhand has given him nothing but problems

What problems??

[geezer II]

There both cheap tin-can guns - :whistle: :mischeif:

[antiqucycle]

This is Chevy versus ford but the mossy is a chrysler without a hemi.

[wildohio22]

I got a chuckle out of that one. I'd say the 870 is the Tippmann, and 500 is a brass eagle. Maybe a spider.
ya know whats funny ernie its not the gun its person using it, ive seen an old man with a brass eagle pump out flank an entire sponsored team with automags and bushmasters, like said before its all preference and skill of the person using the firearms, they know how to use it to its best advantage

BTW that old man was the only one left on his team 5 against 1

you keep your 870 and ill stick with the mossberg..... and the ithica:cheeky-smiley-022::mischeif::D

[jackalope]

ya know whats funny ernie its not the gun its person using it, ive seen an old man with a brass eagle pump out flank an entire sponsored team with automags and bushmasters, like said before its all preference and skill of the person using the firearms, they know how to use it to its best advantage

BTW that old man was the only one left on his team 5 against 1

you keep your 870 and ill stick with the mossberg..... and the ithica:cheeky-smiley-022::mischeif::D


Beware of the man that only owns 1 gun.. He probably knows how to use it.

[ohiosam]

I'm beginning to think that Alan Mossberg must be Jack's father-in-law:shhh::whistle:;):D

[Deehntr56]

I'm beginning to think that Alan Mossberg must be Jack's father-in-law:shhh::whistle:;):D

:biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:

[jbrown]

The poll shows mere personal preference.


The polls asks which gun is BETTER... not "which is your personal preference?" 41 for the 870 and 5 for the 500... most would call that a landslide, Jack.

And why is it every time this debate comes up, the tang safety of the 500 is always talked up as an advantage over the 870? That could be the stupidest argument of all time. I don't care how many minute movements of a finger it takes to disengage the safety... I guarantee I would get a shot off with my 870 just as fast as a guy with a 500.

[jackalope]

The polls asks which gun is BETTER... not "which is your personal preference?" 41 for the 870 and 5 for the 500... most would call that a landslide, Jack.

And why is it every time this debate comes up, the tang safety of the 500 is always talked up as an advantage over the 870? That could be the stupidest argument of all time. I don't care how many minute movements of a finger it takes to disengage the safety... I guarantee I would get a shot off with my 870 just as fast as a guy with a 500.

I didn't dispute what the poll "asked" did I... It's irrelevant to what the poll asked if the answers are given from personal preference and not the standpoint of which gun is better.... SUPPORTED BY FACTS.

And I guarantee you wouldn't get that shot off as fast.. It's quite simple physics....

If for example both of us have safety on and fingers on the trigger.. I have the advantage I don't have to remove my finger from the trigger to disengage the safety.. Even if i gave you a head start, and allowed you to place your finger on the safety while waiting for the go signal.. thus removing 1 movement from your process, I would still beat you...

Another example would be finger along the receiver. Your finger has to make a pit stop on it's way to the trigger.. Mine doesn't.

I have 2 digits doing 2 jobs..
You have One doing both.

It's as simple as that.

[jeffmo]

"If for example both of us have safety on and fingers on the trigger.. I have the advantage I don't have to remove my finger from the trigger to disengage the safety"

but you don't have to remove your finger from the safety to disengage the safety on an 870.i explained that in my other post.

[coonskinner]

me thinks the poll results are a fact...and many have probably tried both,thats not a fact jack...but my big question here is who voted twice...or more:mischeif:

[Deehntr56]

me thinks the poll results are a fact...and many have probably tried both,thats not a fact jack...but my big question here is who voted twice...or more:mischeif:

Can't vote twice coonie if ya voted once!:D

[jackalope]

"If for example both of us have safety on and fingers on the trigger.. I have the advantage I don't have to remove my finger from the trigger to disengage the safety"

but you don't have to remove your finger from the safety to disengage the safety on an 870.i explained that in my other post.

Are you saying putting your entire finger through he trigger guard so to deactivate the safety with the third pad from the tip of your finger i.e. by your first knuckle. If so wouldn't you be pulling the trigger with the middle of your finger and not the tip.