"Patterning" Bucks - CAN be this Easy

[TRMichels]

This is based on my 10 years of deer research, and my Complete Whitetail Addict's Manual.

I'd been checking the weekly frequency that scrapes were used, and how often new ones were made, and the date they were used or made, for the first two years of my research study - and I'd begun seeing bucks along their rub routes, often near their scrapes, in the morning in the evening.
Then, one day, I walked in to check a scrape that was about 3 feet wide and twelve feet long (it had started out as three different scrapes under different branches under a plum tree, and then got bigger, and the scrapes connected as the rut progressed. It was early morning, and it was snowing pretty hard.

I approached the scrape from downwind, with a bunch of brush between me and the scrape. When I was about 15 yards from the scrape, I noticed a snow covered rock in the clearing. I didn't remember that rock, and as I looked closer, I noticed it was an 8 point buck (about 120), laying with its back toward me, facing into the wind. I watched the buck as it lay there for about 10 minutes, then quietly walked back in the direction from which I'd come.

Then, after Dr. Larry Marchinton (well known professor of wildlife, and deer researcher, at the University of Georgia, who also wrote for such publications as Deer & Deer Hunting) sent me every research paper and study he had ever been involved in - I looked at one of his graphs on Daily Deer Movement Times - and it really hit me - because peak deer movement occurred within two hours of sunset and sunrise each day - I should expect to see bucks - along their rubs routes - and/or near scrapes - at about sunrise and sunset.

Then, as I looked at one of his studies on the Home Range Size of White-tailed Deed, and another one on the time of movement each day of several deer, in relation to their Daytime Core Area, it struck me. Because deer left their Daytime Core Area at about the same time every evening - I should expect to see bucks most regularly, along their rub routes, and near scrapes, at about the same time, as they left the core area, in the evening - or as they went back to it, in the morning.

Daily Deer Movement was beginning to make sense to me.

So, as I continued my research project on scrapes and rubs the next year, on a property I had never been on before, I thought I'd try to see if I could "see" particular bucks, on semi-regular basis, along their rub routes, as they left their core areas in the evening, and returned to them in the morning.

Since this was a new property, which I had never even been on, I employed a technique I had learned while guiding for elk, with Dick Ray of Lobo Outfitters, out of Chama, New Mexico. I choose several hill tops and stand locations, from which I could watch the entire property, to see when and where the deer came out in the evening, and when and where they left the property in the morning.

I did not even set foot on the property until October 5th or so. And for the next week I watched the whole area, to see where the deer came out of the woods in the evening - and I "field scouted" it every day between the hours of 10 AM and 3 PM, to look for deer sign, especially doe trails, buck trails/rub routes, and beds.

Then on October 13, as I sat on a hill overlooking a railroads tracks, about 70 yards from where I knew a rub route crossed the tracks, I saw a 10 point 170 class buck cross the tracks, about a half hour before sunset.
Bingo, I had found my first buck to try and pattern.

Not contented to see the buck at 70 yards, I setup about 25 yards downwind of the rub route. As the sun began to sink lower in the sky, and it grew darker, I began to wonder if the buck would show up before sundown. Then, about 5 minutes before sundown, the buck crossed the tracks, not 25 yards from where I sat - on the ground. If I had had my Darton Viper (which was what I was shooting back then, because Darton had sent it to me to try out), along with Easton arrows, and the Rocky Mountain 125 grain broadheads that Bruce Barrie, manager of Rocky Mountain Archery, had sent me to try out, I could have arrowed the buck right there. ---

I had patterned my first whitetail !!!!!

Not being content to have the buck walk by me at 20 yards, I moved to another site, where the rub route would cross in front of me at 10 yards. I set up at about 5:30, expecting to see some of the does in the area early, and the buck to come by me at about 6:30 or so. I did not see any does that night, but at about 6:10 the buck walked by me, and I took its picture with the Canon Sure Shot I had in my pocket. The buck was so close, that it heard the click of the camera shutter, and looked directly me - at 10 yards. Because I did not want to spook the buck, so I could continue to see it during the rest of my research project, I held as still as I could, for what seemed like 10-15 minutes , but in reality was probably 10-15 seconds. And then the buck turned its head, and walked away, until it got to a low-hanging tree branch, that it stopped and thrashed with its heavy antlers - as I watched. Then it continued down its rub route.

Id' set up - on the same whitetail - two times in 5 days. At distances that any archery hunter could take it.

I've done this numerous times since then (over the next 7 years), on bucks from 125-200.

When I got home that night - I wondered why the buck had come in so early. Then, when I got the slide of the deer back, and looked at it, I realized it had been cloudy that night. As I checked my notes - on when I'd seen all of the other deer on that property, and the time I saw them, and whether or not there had been clouds when I saw them - I realized that the clouds could alter the light from the sun enough (make it darker at that time of day than if it was not cloudy), that it resulted in the deer moving up to 20 minutes earlier in the evening than normal, and staying out up to 20 minutes later in the morning than normal.

It can be that easy to pattern a deer (if you know what you are doing) - once you see (or photograph) a buck, in the same place, at about the same time, two times, you should not be trying to see it again in that place - You should be setting up in a location to take that buck, in the next few days.

God bless,

T.R.

[deerhunt45]

Good post. The hard part for me is being in that buck's 10 yard zone and being able to draw and send an arrow his way before he can see me and suddenly be 30 yards or more going away ;):D

Good stuff!

[TRMichels]

Thanks, I hope it helps some of the people here.

God bless

T.R.

[ohbuckeye1]

Very good info, Thanks.

[mrex]

This is based on my 10 years of deer research, and my Complete Whitetail Addict's Manual.

I'd been checking the weekly frequency that scrapes were used, and how often new ones were made, and the date they were used or made, for the first two years of my research study - and I'd begun seeing bucks along their rub routes, often near their scrapes, in the morning in the evening.
Then, one day, I walked in to check a scrape that was about 3 feet wide and twelve feet long (it had started out as three different scrapes under different branches under a plum tree, and then got bigger, and the scrapes connected as the rut progressed. It was early morning, and it was snowing pretty hard.

I approached the scrape from downwind, with a bunch of brush between me and the scrape. When I was about 15 yards from the scrape, I noticed a snow covered rock in the clearing. I didn't remember that rock, and as I looked closer, I noticed it was an 8 point buck (about 120), laying with its back toward me, facing into the wind. I watched the buck as it lay there for about 10 minutes, then quietly walked back in the direction from which I'd come.

Then, after Dr. Larry Marchinton (well known professor of wildlife, and deer researcher, at the University of Georgia, who also wrote for such publications as Deer & Deer Hunting) sent me every research paper and study he had ever been involved in - I looked at one of his graphs on Daily Deer Movement Times - and it really hit me - because peak deer movement occurred within two hours of sunset and sunrise each day - I should expect to see bucks - along their rubs routes - and/or near scrapes - at about sunrise and sunset.

Then, as I looked at one of his studies on the Home Range Size of White-tailed Deed, and another one on the time of movement each day of several deer, in relation to their Daytime Core Area, it struck me. Because deer left their Daytime Core Area at about the same time every evening - I should expect to see bucks most regularly, along their rub routes, and near scrapes, at about the same time, as they left the core area, in the evening - or as they went back to it, in the morning.

Daily Deer Movement was beginning to make sense to me.

So, as I continued my research project on scrapes and rubs the next year, on a property I had never been on before, I thought I'd try to see if I could "see" particular bucks, on semi-regular basis, along their rub routes, as they left their core areas in the evening, and returned to them in the morning.

Since this was a new property, which I had never even been on, I employed a technique I had learned while guiding for elk, with Dick Ray of Lobo Outfitters, out of Chama, New Mexico. I choose several hill tops and stand locations, from which I could watch the entire property, to see when and where the deer came out in the evening, and when and where they left the property in the morning.

I did not even set foot on the property until October 5th or so. And for the next week I watched the whole area, to see where the deer came out of the woods in the evening - and I "field scouted" it every day between the hours of 10 AM and 3 PM, to look for deer sign, especially doe trails, buck trails/rub routes, and beds.

Then on October 13, as I sat on a hill overlooking a railroads tracks, about 70 yards from where I knew a rub route crossed the tracks, I saw a 10 point 170 class buck cross the tracks, about a half hour before sunset.
Bingo, I had found my first buck to try and pattern.

Not contented to see the buck at 70 yards, I setup about 25 yards downwind of the rub route. As the sun began to sink lower in the sky, and it grew darker, I began to wonder if the buck would show up before sundown. Then, about 5 minutes before sundown, the buck crossed the tracks, not 25 yards from where I sat - on the ground. If I had had my Darton Viper (which was what I was shooting back then, because Darton had sent it to me to try out), along with Easton arrows, and the Rocky Mountain 125 grain broadheads that Bruce Barrie, manager of Rocky Mountain Archery, had sent me to try out, I could have arrowed the buck right there. ---

I had patterned my first whitetail !!!!!

Not being content to have the buck walk by me at 20 yards, I moved to another site, where the rub route would cross in front of me at 10 yards. I set up at about 5:30, expecting to see some of the does in the area early, and the buck to come by me at about 6:30 or so. I did not see any does that night, but at about 6:10 the buck walked by me, and I took its picture with the Canon Sure Shot I had in my pocket. The buck was so close, that it heard the click of the camera shutter, and looked directly me - at 10 yards. Because I did not want to spook the buck, so I could continue to see it during the rest of my research project, I held as still as I could, for what seemed like 10-15 minutes , but in reality was probably 10-15 seconds. And then the buck turned its head, and walked away, until it got to a low-hanging tree branch, that it stopped and thrashed with its heavy antlers - as I watched. Then it continued down its rub route.

Id' set up - on the same whitetail - two times in 5 days. At distances that any archery hunter could take it.

I've done this numerous times since then (over the next 7 years), on bucks from 125-200.

When I got home that night - I wondered why the buck had come in so early. Then, when I got the slide of the deer back, and looked at it, I realized it had been cloudy that night. As I checked my notes - on when I'd seen all of the other deer on that property, and the time I saw them, and whether or not there had been clouds when I saw them - I realized that the clouds could alter the light from the sun enough (make it darker at that time of day than if it was not cloudy), that it resulted in the deer moving up to 20 minutes earlier in the evening than normal, and staying out up to 20 minutes later in the morning than normal.

It can be that easy to pattern a deer (if you know what you are doing) - once you see (or photograph) a buck, in the same place, at about the same time, two times, you should not be trying to see it again in that place - You should be setting up in a location to take that buck, in the next few days.

God bless,

T.R.

T.R. - Do you think wind direction matters as far as when deer move?

I am not a biologist and I certainly don't have a mountain of data but my son and I got a pile of trail cam photo's of this buck this past fall and winter, (all but one after dark) and I kept a log of what time he passed the camera in addition to wind direction. In every photo, the buck approached from the west.

http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p90/PupFan1/MDGC0285.jpg

This spread sheet illustrates over 40 data points that represent individual days, the time the photo was taken and from which direction the wind was blowing. The blue series represents an east/southeast/northeast wind, (in his face), and the red series represents a west/southwest/northwest wind, (at his back).

http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p90/PupFan1/CCF03152009_00001.jpg


For the sake of this illustration, I threw out 7 data points, (all after midnight - 2 with east wind and 5 with west).

As you can see, even under the cover of darkness, this bucks movements were influenced by wind direction. Every deer might not be this sharp but I suspect many of the older ones are.

[TRMichels]

While I think wind direction often influences which direction a buck approaches some things, Like open area food sources, its own bedding site, and scrapes - I think the direction of where the does are, and where food sources are, often dictates which way a buck will go (travel) during the fall/rut.

Without knowing where (on the property, especially in realtion to the bucks daytime core area) the buck was sighted, I cannot comment on your graph. I'd also need the time of day, and where any commonly used food sources were. A better way to figure it out would be to look at the number and percentage of times the deer traveled into the wind and with the wind at their backs, in relation to the wind, at what time of day.

One of my studies (one year) was on the direction of travel of every deer I saw, in relation to the wind. I ended up with most of the deer moving into the wind at night, because the food source was west of their daytime core areas; and with the wind at their back in the morning, because they didn't have a choice if they wanted to get back to their core areas, which were east of the food source, where they spent most of the night.

BUT, if the food source was east of their daytime core areas, you would probably see the opposite result.

God bless,

T.R.

[CJR123080]

This spread sheet illustrates over 40 data points that represent individual days, the time the photo was taken and from which direction the wind was blowing. The blue series represents an east/southeast/northeast wind, (in his face), and the red series represents a west/southwest/northwest wind, (at his back). .

That's good stuff - since this deer consistently came from the west, did you only hunt him with westerly winds or did you hunt with a southeast or northeast wind based upon where your stand was positioned?

While it's somewhat aggressive, I'm typically not afraid to hunt favorable "cross winds" as you may be able to position your stand at a point where wind is blowing towards the deer's face, yet he may never pick up your scent.

Also - did you simply use a weather website to determine the wind direction at a specific hour and date?

[coonskinner]

i hunted this buck once and it was very consistant to come up the same trail...about 200 yds. from his bed to feed source which was a large meadow...i lucked out in a pouring rain the first time i ever scouted this area and jumped him from his bed...i naturally linked the trails from there to the meadow i walked thru to get into the woods where i jumped him...sure enough he basically had one trail that went there but it did cross other trails and devide off a couple times...i checked his trails that went off in other directions and to other places too...but immidiately i knew the best bet was from bed to large meadow...and this meant he would be travelingwest to east...which i liked,but i know how many times wind can change:Dbeing that he is not disturbed by something i soon learned this buck would enter the field at the same time(if he entered)and at the same place...i seen him several times do this...he left his bed as the light was getting low he would stage just before dark less than 50 yds. from the fields edge and get under an oak tree and munch acorns and observe the field or look back on his trail as if other deer were coming,sometimes there were...anyway in sept. he would also create a cluster of rubs here...i don't remember a scrape here...i oberved this buck from a stand i had erected on the far side of the meadow mainly as an observation stand even though i did hunt it a couple times...but this buck entered the field only after dark...in the summer i was observing him...but i knew this would change when the doe started to come into heat...and it did...so i set my main stand up in the area where he made the cluster of rubs...of course i'm facing west,the direction he will come from...i also set a stand down his trail a little bit closer to his bedding area...maybe a 100 yds. or little less from it...i'm brave at this and like to see everything my buck does,i snuck in there very quiet and got up in that stand my first hunt...in the evening:yikes: knowing he was probably bedded nearby...but i am sneakly:biggrin:and sure enough i watch him as he rises up just before dark and he moves toward the field as i figured he would giving me a shot before shooting hours expired...anyway as a curious person i knew i'd get one little piece of the puzzle together on this buck and it did pay off i think...for hunting future bucks anyway...anyway this guy pulled one on me...a slightly used trail trail that left the one i was watching for about 25 yds. only then it came back on the main trail...he used this one instead of the section i was watching that was 18 yds. from my stand...this placed him nearly 50 yds. from me...i watched as he slowly walked up the hill easerly to the pasture and to where i should be in my other stand location...i do not believe this buck knew i was there and maybe this is how he has been coming out,i didnt know but there was no indication he knew i was there...
anyway i decided to never hunt that stand again...and hunt the one up where he staged...i had about 10 stands spread out i could hunt...so i hunted some others to see if i might see another buck here,its the rut now...then one day i think it was the 10th to the 16th of nov. i decided to hunt the cluster of rubs stand...oh by the way i had seen this buck from other stands but not close enough for a shot...so when rut comes all this stuff youre talking about goes out the window...early season is very consistant unless something bothers that buck...i dont care which way the wind blows,he's coming up that trail to the field...shortest,easiest fastest way...so he dont have to bed far away and can do all this practically in dark,and when he gets to the field it is dark...i think they trust that(darkness) more than their nose...this guy went from west to east...i ask why didnt he bed on the other side of the pasture and come east to west in the dark...:confused:i did take this buck somewhere in mid rut...as he came out of that bottom up to the feeding area but following a doe...so heres to wind during the rut...he should have winded me several times as they came from behind my tree and then circleing me and getting back on the trail but as he grunted along after this hot doe...he broke every big buck rule in the book...costing him his life...the closest they came was 10 yds. behind me...and zig zagged all over the area below me...i was in a lock on climber,no seat...at 12 ft above the ground...we hugged the tree back then so my scent was all over the tree,all over the ground...but anyway i have played out this same scenario a few more times,different bucks,different climbers...another being a baker hug tree type...but i have seen this dumbness of the buck during the rut over and over from deer that were so consistant a careful during the early season...:biggrin:oh and another note and i think its important that the doe remain the only consistant during the rut,staying the same as all year unless of course they are disturbed by something...i hunt doe groups a lot during rut knowing a buck at some point will be there...i do see a lot of different bucks too but sooner or later mine will show and that chance increases to see him if i stay in his main area of ...common sense

[mrex]

Without knowing where (on the property, especially in realtion to the bucks daytime core area) the buck was sighted, I cannot comment on your graph..

Every photo we got was at a side hill funnel where the cover narrowed.

I'd also need the time of day, and where any commonly used food sources were.

The "Y" axis of my graph is military time. The latest photo sighting was 23:51 hours. The buck was coming from a brushy draw headed for a bottom field.

[mrex]

That's good stuff - since this deer consistently came from the west, did you only hunt him with westerly winds or did you hunt with a southeast or northeast wind based upon where your stand was positioned??

Anything with the word west was good.


Also - did you simply use a weather website to determine the wind direction at a specific hour and date?

Yes, - weather.com

What really opened my eyes with this deer was the fact that even under the cover of darkness, he moved earlier when the wind was in his favor. They really are remarkable creatures.

[jbrown]

What really opened my eyes with this deer was the fact that even under the cover of darkness, he moved earlier when the wind was in his favor. They really are remarkable creatures.

After seeing the data you posted, Mike, I don't see how anyone can say we give mature bucks more credit than they deserve. The most impressive thing about it, to me, was how consistent that deer was.

Did you get any daylight trailcam pics of that deer at all? From the data you posted, it seems as though the only way to kill that deer would be to creep into his bedroom.

[mrex]

Did you get any daylight trailcam pics of that deer at all?

This was the only daylight trail cam photo we had.

http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p90/PupFan1/MDGC0266.jpg

From the data you posted, it seems as though the only way to kill that deer would be to creep into his bedroom.

I did get this daytime shot with my son in late January. ;)

http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p90/PupFan1/IMG_0004.jpg

[T.Leo]

MREX,
Those are the best type of daytime photos to get!!!!:bouncy: One question, was your son using the smoker on that hunt?

[mrex]

One question, was your son using the smoker on that hunt?

http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p90/PupFan1/IMG_0020.jpg

My son was wearing $700 worth of scentlock clothing Santa had just left under the tree a month earlier and it smelled like smoke. Every deer hunting garment we own smells like smoke.

....an no Charlie, I'm not hearing the "voices" again. :biggrin:

[jbrown]

I did get this daytime shot with my son in late January. ;)

http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p90/PupFan1/IMG_0004.jpg

ahhhh.... I knew I'd seen that buck on here before. What an awesome deer... your son should really be proud of out-smarting that big dude.

I tell ya what, I think I'm finally starting to come off the fence as far as the Scent Smoker goes. There's just too many people saying too many good things about it to ignore it anymore. My '09 deer hunting supplies list has just started I think. Item #1... Scent Smoker. :mischeif:

[Gordo]

I got a scent-smoker as a late christman gift and am looking forward to giving it the test next fall. I'm just wondering if I should smoke-up my pricey scent-lok, or use other clothing so I still have the option of not smoking up. I would hait to taint my scentlok permanently because I've had a good results with it and it was costly.

[coonskinner]

Im sure there is something good in this but it would be alot easier if you give us some paragraphs or something. I read the first sentence and stopped.

i'm sorry but thats the best i can do...i'm not good on the computer,typing skills and this as good as it will get for now until i learn more...i've improved my spelling and vocabulary...it took a long time for me to type that,sorry...:D

[scout0324]

ahhhh.... I knew I'd seen that buck on here before. What an awesome deer... your son should really be proud of out-smarting that big dude.

I tell ya what, I think I'm finally starting to come off the fence as far as the Scent Smoker goes. There's just too many people saying too many good things about it to ignore it anymore. My '09 deer hunting supplies list has just started I think. Item #1... Scent Smoker. :mischeif:

Mrex,
Impressive deer! I bet you are having a ball out in the woods with your boys! They are lucky to have such a great mentor.

JB,
As far as the smoker, I was a skeptic too. I used scent lock clothes, special shower soap, deodorant, dryer sheets, spray, body wipes, powder and even chap stick. Kept all my gear sealed up in special tubs and still got winded from time to time! Started using my old bee smoker this year thanks to 1023's posts and only got snorted at once, and that was because I had just shot a deer out of a herd and they knew something was up...didn't get winded once.
I hunt during the weekends from a cabin that does not have running water. After a weekend of deer camp food, "drink" and sweat...I stink! Took three of my deer on Sunday nights this year...Just smoked my clothes and gear and sprayed my boots...amazing! Much easier than all I was going through before, an MUCH more effective!

[buckslayer98]

Woundering why you would pay 700.00 on a scent loc suit. If this scent smoker works so well. Wouldn't the smoke make the suit worthless?

[mrex]

Woundering why you would pay 700.00 on a scent loc suit. If this scent smoker works so well. Wouldn't the smoke make the suit worthless?

Was in Cabelas 3 days before Christmas looking for last minute gifts. Liked the pattern and under garments. Carbon lining was irrelevant...just ask T.R. ;)

[jbrown]

Was in Cabelas 3 days before Christmas looking for last minute gifts. Liked the pattern and under garments. Carbon lining was irrelevant...just ask T.R. ;)

That Mossy Oak Treestand really is a great pattern.... almost Predator-esque. Wish I had some. :(:D

[TRMichels]

MREX,

Don't EVEN get me started on Scent Lok :yikes: :tsk: :)

I'm kind tired of the whole thing, let the lawyers sort it out. - I gave 'em enough ammunition. Heck, they just got it off my website, they even told me so.

May God bless all of you,

T.R.

[mrex]

i hunted this buck once and it was very consistant to come up the same trail...about 200 yds. from his bed to feed source which was a large meadow...i lucked out in a pouring rain the first time i ever scouted this area and jumped him from his bed...i naturally linked the trails from there to the meadow i walked thru to get into the woods where i jumped him...sure enough he basically had one trail that went there but it did cross other trails and devide off a couple times...i checked his trails that went off in other directions and to other places too...but immidiately i knew the best bet was from bed to large meadow...and this meant he would be travelingwest to east...which i liked,but i know how many times wind can change:Dbeing that he is not disturbed by something i soon learned this buck would enter the field at the same time(if he entered)and at the same place...i seen him several times do this...he left his bed as the light was getting low he would stage just before dark less than 50 yds. from the fields edge and get under an oak tree and munch acorns and observe the field or look back on his trail as if other deer were coming,sometimes there were...anyway in sept. he would also create a cluster of rubs here...i don't remember a scrape here...i oberved this buck from a stand i had erected on the far side of the meadow mainly as an observation stand even though i did hunt it a couple times...but this buck entered the field only after dark...in the summer i was observing him...but i knew this would change when the doe started to come into heat...and it did...so i set my main stand up in the area where he made the cluster of rubs...of course i'm facing west,the direction he will come from...i also set a stand down his trail a little bit closer to his bedding area...maybe a 100 yds. or little less from it...i'm brave at this and like to see everything my buck does,i snuck in there very quiet and got up in that stand my first hunt...in the evening:yikes: knowing he was probably bedded nearby...but i am sneakly:biggrin:and sure enough i watch him as he rises up just before dark and he moves toward the field as i figured he would giving me a shot before shooting hours expired...anyway as a curious person i knew i'd get one little piece of the puzzle together on this buck and it did pay off i think...for hunting future bucks anyway...anyway this guy pulled one on me...a slightly used trail trail that left the one i was watching for about 25 yds. only then it came back on the main trail...he used this one instead of the section i was watching that was 18 yds. from my stand...this placed him nearly 50 yds. from me...i watched as he slowly walked up the hill easerly to the pasture and to where i should be in my other stand location...i do not believe this buck knew i was there and maybe this is how he has been coming out,i didnt know but there was no indication he knew i was there...
anyway i decided to never hunt that stand again...and hunt the one up where he staged...i had about 10 stands spread out i could hunt...so i hunted some others to see if i might see another buck here,its the rut now...then one day i think it was the 10th to the 16th of nov. i decided to hunt the cluster of rubs stand...oh by the way i had seen this buck from other stands but not close enough for a shot...so when rut comes all this stuff youre talking about goes out the window...early season is very consistant unless something bothers that buck...i dont care which way the wind blows,he's coming up that trail to the field...shortest,easiest fastest way...so he dont have to bed far away and can do all this practically in dark,and when he gets to the field it is dark...i think they trust that(darkness) more than their nose...this guy went from west to east...i ask why didnt he bed on the other side of the pasture and come east to west in the dark...:confused:i did take this buck somewhere in mid rut...as he came out of that bottom up to the feeding area but following a doe...so heres to wind during the rut...he should have winded me several times as they came from behind my tree and then circleing me and getting back on the trail but as he grunted along after this hot doe...he broke every big buck rule in the book...costing him his life...the closest they came was 10 yds. behind me...and zig zagged all over the area below me...i was in a lock on climber,no seat...at 12 ft above the ground...we hugged the tree back then so my scent was all over the tree,all over the ground...but anyway i have played out this same scenario a few more times,different bucks,different climbers...another being a baker hug tree type...but i have seen this dumbness of the buck during the rut over and over from deer that were so consistant a careful during the early season...:biggrin:oh and another note and i think its important that the doe remain the only consistant during the rut,staying the same as all year unless of course they are disturbed by something...i hunt doe groups a lot during rut knowing a buck at some point will be there...i do see a lot of different bucks too but sooner or later mine will show and that chance increases to see him if i stay in his main area of ...common sense

One of your better posts George. Informational and educational.

[ohio guy]

If you like the smoker try this, I dont typically hunt the same tree very often but I do try to understand the area that I hunt and I will generally hunt "areas" that I think will produce. I started taking recently burnt peices of wood (I use hickory) in those areas and leaving them. My thought was to get the deer used to that smell so that when I was there and smoked up that it would not be a new or unusual smell for the area. In my experience it is very effective. Its a bit of work but I feel it is very much worth the effort. I have a burn pile on my property and a stack of hickory cut to sizes like the end of a baseball bat. I just burn them partially enough to leave plenty of smoke smell. I put pieces in a 2 gallon zip lock plastic bag a toss them in my pack, drop them and leave them. Getting busted by the breeze in those areas has improved big time!! I started doing this last year in hunting season. I then started doing it again this summer and the results are real. Scent Lok .....why not scentflauge? We camo ourselves why not try to camo our smell as well as covering it up.

[Wildman18]

I do the same thing but I use skoal mint. I go back to the area that I hunt which happens to be behind my shop I take the quad and I always have a chew in.( Horrible habit. played Many games of baseball) But I spit by my stand at least 2 a week. I never get busted there unless I move or do something stupid. Same concept.