Varmint Calibers

[MrFurious]

I'm getting ready to buy myself a Savage 12FLVSS varmint rifle, but I'm not sure whether to go with a .223 or .22-250. Gun will mostly be used for groundhogs and possible an occassional coyote (I know they're around, just never seem to see them).

I'm not real familiar with either round, so if someone wouldn't mind outlining the benefits/drawbacks of each it would be greatly appriciated. As of now I'm leaning towards the .223 as the ammo is much cheaper from what I've seen, but I have no reservations of going to the .22-250 if the benefits make up for the difference in ammo price.

[jcdflint]

If you reload or will in future. I'd go with 22-250. If not go with the 223. 223 is #1 in sales ,that tells you something. 22-250 is a great round. You will get out farther with more "punch" Both will do just fine!!! The 223 as you said is a lot cheaper!

I'd put a 12 power fix Leopold on the Savage and kick "ASS"

Sound might be a factor to if you hunt around a more populated area. Pick the 223 then???

[7th]

The range that you are shooting will tell allot about this too, but under 250 there is little dif, the 223 will reach out there but the 22-250 is alot better past this point.
Something to look at, if you don't load the Militay ball ammo worked very well it the 223's that I have had and can be got cheep but look for the good ammo not allot of the overseas junk, IMI makes some good stuff too.
For longer range and the fun of rolling your own the 22-250 will give the better show, plus with the heavy bullets and fast rifling thay can be some long range stuff.
I am using a Rem Varmeter Classic in a 22-250 w/ 1-10" ( not very slow) and with a 55 gr Sierra HPBT at 3600 fps will do 3/8" at 200 yds if I am shooting good that day, and still under 1" at 300 yds and a little over 1 1/2" at 400 yds.

[Rick]

MrFurious
I would go with the 22-250 then later on down the road maybe buy a 223 barrel to change out to.
The barrels on Savage are not that hard to change out, all you need is the tool and they are not that much.

I have ben wanting a stainless steel rifle in 17cal centerfire for some time now but I had not found the right one so I am going to buy the 223 Savage and change barrels.
There is a guy in Ohio that sells barrels for Savage rifles and they are not all that much.

IF you like I can e-mail you his name.
He also sells Savage rifles.

[Buckmaster]

I had the same choices to make last year. I went with a 25-06 which gives the flexibility to take deer as well. Its primary use is for yotes.

[jcdflint]

Rick,

Can you E-mail me his name? I shoot 17 Rem centerfire. in a 700Rem Classic. I reload 20gr. Hornady behind Varget. I've killed hog's out to 500 yrds. with it. Crows to 300yrds. Jeff

[MrFurious]

Thanks for the advise everyone. I think I'm just going to go with the .223 for now. I don't reload or plan to start anytime soon, so it would definitely be a lot easier on my wallet.

Rick, that guy you mentioned isn't from Delphos is he? Just wondering if its the same guy that someone else mentioned in another thread for Savage trigger jobs. I'd actually be interested in just getting a barrel, action, and AccuTrigger assembly as I plan to go to a custom stock.

[Rick]

MrFurious
ITs sounds like we are talking about the same guy.

"Sharp Shooter ! in Delphos, Oh"

[MrFurious]

Yeah, thats him...out on Leman Rd. I've never met the guy, but considering I'm getting into Savage rifles we'll probably end up on a first name basis. Just can't beat the price of the Savages, and they have the best selection of calibers for us south-paws.

[Rick]

jcdflint

The place I am talking about is called
Sharp Shooter Supply - 4970 Lehman Rd. Delphos, Oh 45833 Phone Number is 419-695-3179

He also has a e-mail address and it is
sshooter@wcoil.com

E-mail him for a catalog.

He has every thing you need for Savage rifles.

Rick

[Rick]

MrFurious
I have a buddy up in Michigan that let me try his new savage out when we was out west this last July and I can say for a rifle that comes right out of the boxs its a shooter.
Me and that buddy are getting ready to go back out to SD again this week for some long range shooting and PD blasting.
I am hopping to make a 1500yd shot this time out if the weather will let me.
I made a 1248yd shot last year killing two PD's with one shot.
They was line up just right !
Well I got to get back to packing so I will talk to you later.

[MrFurious]

Good luck out west next week. I'll give that guy a call and see what he can set me up with. If I can get just the barreled action I want for a decent savings over buying the full gun that would be great considering I already know I want a custom stock.

[Rick]

Thanks MrFurious !

I need all the luck I can get.

I am leaving for White River, SD wednesday morning of this week.
I have to drive up to Flint, Michigan to pickup that buddy and then we are heading out from there, hopping to get in around mednight or shorty after that.
Then the next morning I will be setting up a 338 for 1500yds, if that don't do it I will be taking out next spring a 50 BMG and that will do the job for sure.

Have you ever gone prairie dog shooting ?

I have ben going out to SD for 5 years now and its a blast.

[MrFurious]

Nope, can't say I ever have. I really haven't done any long range shooting over 150yds. or so. Hopefully I'll be about doubling that distance once I get my .223 and have it set up how I want it. Just wish the new .223 WSSM was available in a left-hand configuration...then I could really have some fun!

[Rick]

Good Morning MrFurious !
I am a left hand shooter also but I like the right hand rifles less you are talking about custom stock.
Then I have them made for me like a right hand rifle put in a left hand stock.

I am looking in to getting a custom made 17cal centerfire in stainless thats a nice little rifle and fast to.
Good for groundhogs on days where there is not to much wind.

[MrFurious]

Well, know you won't see this for a few days atleast, but no biggie :D

I actually toyed with the idea of going with a RH action/LH stock combo on a custom stock, but I'm not sure how I'd like it. If I did take that avenue I could go .223 WSSM, but so far only Winchester and Browning are offering them to my knowledge and are kind of pricey compared to the Savages. I'm sure the ammunition will be nice and pricey for awhile as well.

Have you ever tried any of the Richards Microfit (http://www.rifle-stocks.com/) stocks? Most likely I'll be going with their Wildcat Thumbhole or Dual Grip Thumbhole style in a Tigerwood Laminate or Grade A Fancy Claro Walnut (decisions decisions).

I pretty much have my mind set on the Savage 12FLVSS. Already has the fluted heavy barrel and an adjustable trigger assembly, so I should be about set once I get the stock inlet and bedded. Only thing I really haven't decided upon is the scope. I'm usually a diehard Leupold guy, but I've been reading a lot of good things about the Weaver V-Series. Either way, I'll be going with something along the lines of 6-20x or better.

Its funny you mentioned the .17HMR, as thats the next toy on my "Must Have" list (just gotta sell the boat first). Probably end up with a Savage on that one to, as no one else offers a LH version. Remington is my only other real option in the 597, but after my experiences with the .22LR version of the gun I want nothing to do with that. Ejection failures, bolt not closing fully, misfires, etc.

[Rick]

MrFurious
I am still up but about ready to turn in for the night so I can get up and be on the road by 3:00am.

My one buddy in michigan have t Savage 17HMR its a nice rifle and he has killed alot of PD's with it this year.
ITs going along again on this trip !

Now my buddy over in columbus just got this weekend a remington 597 and he is not very happy with it.
He e-mail me tonight saying he thinks he sould have waited and got the Savage.

No I have tried that Richards Microfit stocks.
I may have to look in to it when I get back from SD.

Well I am turn in so I can get a good start in the morning.
Talk to you when I get back.

[vvarmitr]

Mr. Furious: 22-250 in the Savage12FLVSS! End of story! If you're so poor you need cheap ammo then why-in-the-h e double L are you spending $ on a gun just to shoot varmints? :confused:

If I were you I would get another job, instead of sleeping in my tree stand, so I could afford to varmint hunt. :p :D

Gotta go, Love ya man.

[jcdflint]

vvarmitr,

Give up on those "G"hogs,and start bowhunting deer!!!


FLINTY




A real sport!!!!! You can change your name to "BOW"hntr

[MrFurious]

vvarmitr, the cost of ammo isn't the main reason for my choosing the 223. More than likely I'll be having a .22-250 passed down to me within the next few years, so why buy one?

[vvarmitr]

Mr. Furious: Sorry to be so short w/ya this morning. I wrote it quick before dashing out the door for work.
IMHO the 22-250 will do that rifle more justice. I have an older Savage in 22-250 in the 112VBSS. More than once I have shot 1/4inch groups @ 100yds. I don't have an after market trigger, nor an expensive scope.(I'm working on it though :D ) I still say go w/ the 22-250, then when you get the other rifle (who knows when :rolleyes: ) take the barrel off the Savage & have it Ackley Improved ;) That is if you aren't in love w/it as it is. :eek:
If you are really wanting the 223 get it in a sporter weight. When I had one I could reliably hit at 300yds. And if you are in a noise problem area you won't be shooting that far, in most cases.
Gotta go again.....more later

[vvarmitr]

As I was saying, if you have it in a sporter weight you have a nice rifle to carry & do some sneak attacks. :D Yeah, some of the ammo for the 223 is cheap, but why would you want to run cheap ammo though your gun? :confused: Just to hear it go "BANG"?
The good ammo isn't that much cheaper than the other varmint rounds.
Gotta go, hi ho hi ho it's off to work I go.

[MrFurious]

LOL......stop it! You're starting to convince me.

Actually, I was looking through one of my Cabela's cagalogs last night at the Hornady Custom Ammo, and the 22-250 is actually $2.50 cheaper. :confused: Still trying to figure that one out considering most Winchester and Remington 22-250 ammo is about $4-5 more a box over the 223.

Gotta run, I'll comment more later

[jcdflint]

Go with the 223. it seems you want both. The 223 has less report than the 22-250 ,cost a little less for ammo, and you will be getting a 22-250 later. 223 thats it!!!!!!!

[MrFurious]

I have a feeling this is going to be one of those decisions I make at the last minute while standing at the gun counter. LOL

Back to vvarmitr's ammo question...when I say cheaper ammo, I'm not talking about the el-cheapo from God knows where stuff. At a minimum I always shoot Winchester and Remington. Most of that foreign junk has steel casings, crappy primers, and low grade powder and you're just asking for trouble with it.

As for rifle weight, I've never ran into a problem where I've noticed the weight of a gun, so that isn't a big concern. If I know I'm going to be doing some major trekking, I always use a sling which also helps. Don't really see doing much long trekking with a varmint rifle tho (around here anyways), but ya never know.

I'm also still trying to decide which route I'm going to take on optics. Was thinking of something along the lines of a Weaver V-16 or Leupold VX-II 6-18x40, but then last night I came across a fixed power thats available in 10x, 16x, and 20x for a decent price. Its a Tasco Super Sniper (I know what your thinking, but read some of the reviews at RifleScopes.com (http://www.riflescopes.com/riflescopes/tasco/index.html)) and after some research it seems to be a top quality scope for a great price. I figure if its good enough to get a military contract, it should be more than adequate for what I want. Yet again, decisions decisions...

[jcdflint]

O' my

This is getting as bad as My Girlfriend trying to pick out the right "SHOE"S" at the Mall??????????? This is "NUTS"



To much time "THINKING" takes away from "SHOOTING"

[MrFurious]

LOL

Well, I can't help it these's so much out there to choose from. I'll admit I'm pretty anal about researching when it comes to product selection on major purchases, but once I make up my mind I vary rarely question my decision and thats a good thing. Nothing worse than spending hard earned money on something only to find out you aren't happy with it a month later.

[jcdflint]

Just "KIDDING" a little. Money's hard to come by these days!
I know!!!!

[thebootlegger]

If money is your main concern, check out NEF single shot rifles. You can get a .223 or a 22-250 for about $200 if you shop around, maybe $150. I had a .223 and it shot great. Hell, you could buy one of each for what you'll spend on a bolt action.
If you want to spend more cash for a bolt gun, I'd get something bigger, like a .243/.257/.270/.308, so you can hunt bigger stuff if your heart desires. More bang for the buck, in my opinion. You can get bullets from 50-100+gr for a .243.

[vvarmitr]

thebootlegger: "Smile, your in my crosshairs" LMAO :D
:confused: Why have one gun that does everything that doesn't fill the gun safe very well. :rolleyes: :D
Mr. Furious: I'm starting to see where you are coming from. About the only way I would go w/a 223 in a heavy barrel is if I was doing Praire Dogs often.
As for the studing of products before buying, I do the same thing. ;) You can't go wrong w/ the Weaver or Leopold scopes, but as for the Tascos, I don't know? I have one & I really don't care for it. It does the job, but the quality that I want isn't there.
Hi ho hi ho........

[10Gauge]

I agree with varm....god I can't believe I said that!:D

.22-250 all the way......I got 2 of them

.....a "sporter" T/C Encore with a Leo VariX-III, custom barrel (bullworks) & trigger job by yours truely, its sweet!
.....and a custom "hvy" barrel (mauser 98 action) 13+ pounder for those special occasions! The mauser is a 1936 JP Sauer & Sohn, has "sniper" double set triggers and a Tasco WorldClass 50mm Mil-Dot 20X Variable. It rocks! Not crazy bout the scope but it really turns heads at the range especially with a 6" sun shield!

I don't knock .223's, owned one of those "sporter" AR-15's once, yawn :o

Nothin says "varmint killer" like the .22-250 and you don't gotta reload to shoot tight groups, buy Hornady ammo and try it. My Mauser likes it when I'm not shooting reloads but my Encore prefers Winchester Varmint ammo?!?! Go figure the Winchester is cheap too!

[MrFurious]

Originally posted by thebootlegger
If money is your main concern, check out NEF single shot rifles. You can get a .223 or a 22-250 for about $200 if you shop around, maybe $150. I had a .223 and it shot great. Hell, you could buy one of each for what you'll spend on a bolt action.
If you want to spend more cash for a bolt gun, I'd get something bigger, like a .243/.257/.270/.308, so you can hunt bigger stuff if your heart desires. More bang for the buck, in my opinion. You can get bullets from 50-100+gr for a .243.

Bootlegger, the money isn't as much of a concern to me as quality, durability, and reliability. We all know Tasco has a reputation as being cheap, but thats due to the fact that their marketing plan was designed around offering inexpensive products. Bushnell is somewhat in the same market with most of their lines (although I do rate them much better than most Tasco's), but they do offer excellent high-end optics in their Elite 3200 & 4200 lines as well. Just because they chose to mostly build affordable products with less features and technology built into them, that doesn't mean they weren't fully capable of putting together some exceptional products when they wanted to. Its simple marketing principals.....what market do you want to cater to.

I'm not dead set on the Tasco yet as I'm not sure how I'd like the fixed power, but I do feel it is worthy of being considered. Take the time to read the reviews mentioned in my previous post and I think you'd agree.

As for going to a larger caliber for an "all-purpose" gun, I'm just one of those who prefers to have my rifles be more specific in their roles. I also look at them as being just as much of an investment or collectable as I do being a tool for hunting. Some people buy stocks or baseball cards....I buy guns.

Ok, guess I've rambled on enough for one evening.

[jcdflint]

Let me through in another log! Why not a 17. Remington. 4300 feet a second "V" buster!!!

[Rick]

jcdflint

I am in the market for a 17 centerfire Cooper.
We stop by a store in Lowa on the way back home from shooting prairie dogs last week and that place had Cooper's in stock but had to be wanting to buy one right then to be able to hold one and at the time I was not ready so all I did was look.
But now I just about sure on the one I would like to have.

You are right about the 17 centerfire's they are super fast and its a good rifle for groundhogs on days where there is not to much wind.
I am hopping to be able to try one out next spring on some prairie dogs some where out west.

My buddy has a Cooper in 17HMR and it a super rifle for PD's out to a 100yds with the V-Max bullets.
We did find out on this trip last week the 17 HMR TNT bullets don't work so well on prairie dogs like the V-Max do.

[jcdflint]

Rick,

I have a 1999 Remington Classic in 17 Rem. I have a 4 to 12 Leopold on it. I'll tell you what!!! it's a real shooter! Iv'e killed "HOGS" out to 500 yrd. with it.

I don't know why, but the wind does'nt affect it that much?
I shoot 20 gr. Hornady's over 24 gr. of Varget. seated out almost to lands. About 4300 fps.

Good luck with the Cooper if you get it! "GO FOR IT"

[Rick]

jcdflint

I don't know why I was think that that 17 rem would only be good out to about 200yds. Thanks for letting me know it will go to less 500yds.
Sounds like ia nice rifle for PD's out west, I can't wait to get my hands on one for next year.
When I do get that Cooper I have a brand new leupold setting here go on it. 8.5x25x50mm.
IT maybe a bit of a over kill but I can see the color of there eyes before I pull the tigger.

[jcdflint]

Rick,

You must be thinking 17 HMR,that's a 200 yrd. gun!
I got a Tauras Tracker revolver in 17 HMR. That would be fun on a pd hunt!!!!

[vvarmitr]

Originally posted by 10Gauge
I agree with varm....god I can't believe I said that!:D LOL I can't believe you said it either. LOL
The Hornady fodder has been the best shooting for me too. Infact their brass is all I use for reloading. It makes a difference for my Savage 112.

Rick & Flint: the reason for the lack of wind deflection has to do w/the time in flight. The less time in flight the less time wind has to affect the bullets path. However, the lighter bullets are pushed around by the wind more. Regardless of caliber.

[MrFurious]

Originally posted by jcdflint
Why not a 17. Remington. 4300 feet a second "V" buster!!!

Now why would I want a pellet gun? :D :D

Actually, I'd be pretty hard pressed around here to even find ammunition for that caliber. Closest "decent" gun shop is 45 minutes away.

vvarmitr, tried to send you a PM and an email last night, neither of which went through. Said your PM box was full and your email was undeliverable. How's a guy supposed to contact you? Telepathy? :p :D

Rick........so whats the story? Stop keeping us in suspense! Did ya get a chance to do the 1500yd. shot?

[Rick]

No !
The weather would not let me.
This whole week they had 35 to 40 mph wind. Not good for any kind of shooting pass 100yds.