Change of pace....Is USC.......

[Deehntr56]

A MUST WIN GAME IN WEEK THREE?????:biggrin: :confused:

OK......Now to something else to start talking football........In the spirit of debate, we began a new feature here on BuckeyeGrove.com in which the staff discusses a vast number of topics in a roundtable forum with the hope that we can help shed some light on any questions that might be lingering after spring practice at Ohio State.

Last season was supposed to be the year the rest of the Pac-10 finally caught up to USC during the Pete Carroll era. Instead the Trojans cruised to an 11-2 record and yet another conference title by knocking off Cal, Arizona State and UCLA down the stretch before defeating Big Ten runner-up Illinois handedly 49-17 in the Rose Bowl.

After being accused of a weak non-conference schedule a year ago, the Buckeyes have beefed things up in 2008 with the presence of those very Trojans from Los Angeles. In fact, the Bucks are heading west in week three of the season for what some are calling the "game of the year" against USC in The L.A. Coliseum. Considering what OSU has been through the past two seasons in the post-season, and what's at stake in 2008,

Roundtable Question No. 25: Is week three against USC a must win game for Ohio State?


Associated Press

Fans have high expectations this season and a win against USC would mean a lot.
When you are at Ohio State every game is ultimately a must win contest. But all joking aside the USC game is going to be a very important barometer for the Buckeyes and a shot at a dose of redemption in the eyes of a national audience that has soured a bit on Ohio State. The Big Ten has not been viewed as one of the top conferences and regardless of what Ohio State can accomplish in eight league games it will take one premier out of conference game to get people on board and the USC game is the perfect opportunity.

The 2008 Ohio State Buckeye team has been battle tested for the most part with so many returning starters but this game will be the first game of the season where they will be pushed (no disrespect to YSU or Ohio). Most coaches are in favor of having that benchmark game in order to know where their team stands and what they are doing right and what needs to be fixed before league play begins. Ohio State has shown a high degree of dominance in the league over the past couple of seasons but in order to have a chance to return to the championship game the team will likely have to beat USC (with many pundits saying that a one-loss Ohio State team might be in a whole heap of trouble coming final BCS time).

Gone are the days where the biggest prize was a league crown and a win against that school up north. While both of those accomplishments are not too shabby we are in an age where Ohio State fans are wanting to see the Buckeyes compete for National Titles and expect the rest to come in tow. With that being said it does make the USC game a must-win because without a victory the road becomes longer and the public perception sinks even a step lower.


Brandon Castel, Staff Writer

In order to properly answer this question, it is important understand the definition of the phrase "must win game" and how it applies to Ohio State in 2008. While there have been a number of one-loss (and in the case of LSU last season, even two-loss) teams to make it to the BCS national title game, that will most likely not be the case for the Buckeyes this season, especially if that one loss comes at the hands of USC.


Associated Press

Jim Tressel set the bar high with a national title in 2002.
Make no mistake about it; the Buckeyes will likely need an undefeated regular season if they have plans of punching their ticket for the Orange Bowl in Jan. and a third straight trip to the national championship game. On an intellectual level, the football know-it-alls around the country seem to agree that last year's OSU team was never supposed to get as far as the title game. They also seem to agree that this year's team has a much better makeup of talent and experience than the one that proceeded it (and quite possibly even the team that proceeded last year's). Don't believe me? Why else would Sporting News, Lindy's, Athlon, Phil Steele and the majority of other pre-season college football publications have the Buckeyes ranked a consensus No. 1, 2 or 3 in the pre-season top 25?

Unfortunately the general public – particularly anywhere outside the Midwest – does not share the same reverence for Jim Tressel and his squad. Two straight losses on the grand stage and an 0-9 bowl record against the SEC has elevated the Buckeyes to a status of national loathing previously only reserved for schools like Notre Dame and Miami. If OSU were to lose in Los Angeles – especially in convincing fashion – even an undefeated run through the Big Ten would not be enough to deafen the outcry for anyone but the Buckeyes in the title game.

Even without a victory over the Trojans, OSU could be in for a special season in 2008. The Buckeyes are looking for their fourth straight Big Ten title this season, and if achieved, they would become the first team in conference history to win three straight outright Big Ten titles. They are also looking for their fifth straight win over archrival Michigan, the first against new coach Rich Rodriguez and the seventh in eight tries under coach Tressel.

However, Tressel set the bar high when he delivered a National Championship in his second season in Columbus and nothing less than a second title in eight years (remember it had been 34 years since the last national title) will appease Ohio State fans in 2008. Winning Big Ten titles has become secondary to winning national titles, which makes Sept. 13 a "must win game" for the Buckeyes. If they win that game – particularly in a convincing fashion of their own – the clamoring against the Big Ten could quiet to a dull roar. It would prove that OSU can run with the big dogs – who knew beating a seemingly invincible Miami team in 2002 would not have the same lasting affect – and it might give the Buckeyes a chance to stumble later on in the schedule and still make it to the big game.


Ari Wasserman, Staff Writer


Associated Press

If the Buckeyes want this, they will need to get past USC first.
Think deeply as to what the perception of Ohio State is from people around the country. Not sure what I'm getting at? Let me help you. After the last two years in which the Buckeyes got beaten pretty easily in the title game, most of America perceives Ohio State to be a power within the Big Ten. While that may seem great, the Buckeyes are also recognized as one of the more overrated teams in the country whose only good because they play in a weaker conference. Though Ohio State fans may resent them, it is kind of hard to blame them given the Buckeyes have had weak non-conference schedules and have gotten beaten up by two SEC teams in consecutive years.

The aforementioned statement is a huge reason why the USC game in week three of the season is a must win. Ohio State needs to fix how the country and media perceives them and a loss to USC could permanently damage that while simultaneously ruining any shot at a national championship berth. Some people may be thinking that the nation's opinion doesn't really matter, but that surely isn't the case. Most people formulate their opinions from things they hear in the media, and whether you want to believe it or not, the media thinks the same of the Buckeyes.

As of now, the Buckeyes image is damaged. The SEC has made a joke out of them and the media and fans have caught on. However, Ohio State has a golden opportunity to switch it around this year when they visit Los Angeles. If Ohio State can somehow come up with a win over the Trojans – a top five match up – that will immediately catapult them to a national title favorite.

The alternative? With a loss, Ohio State's title dreams and season will immediately come to an end. Though the Buckeyes will probably stay in the top ten and have a shot to work themselves back into the BCS top two, when it all comes down to it, nobody wants to see them in the game. With a loss to the Trojans, you can kiss just about every member of the media's vote goodbye if there is any question on who to send. And they do have the power to exclude Ohio State if they want, just look what they did for LSU last season.

The bottom line is Ohio State has too much riding on this game. Their reputation, their season, and possibly future recruiting all depend on the results of the game. It is a must win, no matter what.


SO......what say all of you?????:confused: :) :biggrin:

[Redhunter1012]

Every game is must win IMO. This year you almost have to go undefeated to make it to the Championship game. The Big 12 is down and I think Missourri will make it through undefeated. Always have to consider USC as a favorite to make it, along with the Buckeyes. I think Florida is overrated, they have OL problems. LSU won't make it through unscathed. I think the winner of OSU and USC have the inside edge. But, I also think OSU loses atleast 1 in the Big 10. I'm sorry, I'm just not sold on your offense. Boeckman is a heady player, but I like the QB to be a leader, and I haven't seen it from him....YET.

[Deehntr56]

Georgia...oh Georgia...and Tebow and Florida won't be easy!!!:biggrin:

[Redhunter1012]

I liked Georgia, but how many players are they gonna lose to the law?

[Deehntr56]

Depends on how many they catch between now and the end of the season!:biggrin:

[Fish-n-Fool]

I think there is little doubt it is a must win game for us this year. We will see if Boeckman has improved as much as they say becuase USC will play man coverage on our receivers and cheat up to try to stop Beanie. USC has a great group of athletic DBs that will jam our guys on the line without fear of being beat deep. They also have some serious speed on the edges that should test the O line and get in TB's face.

I think it is a shame that this group of guys bears the burden for the 2006 team. Realistically it was the 2006 team that got things started creating this negative perception nationally of the league. Toss in embarrassing losses by UM and Minn last year to schools with no business winning against Big Ten teams and there you go. The 2006 team probably was the best team in CFB during the season. They have admitted they did not prepare for that game, didn't work out, gained weight - you name it. It was inexcusable and it certainly showed on the field (not to take everything away from that FL team - they were darn good!).

The 2007 team excelled and performed a little better than expected while the rest of CFB fell flat. Yes, we were in the NC game and had a chance to win if we had not made so many personal fouls and caught a break or two. But, the bottom line is the 07 team wasn't ready for that game and the better, more mature/experienced football team won.

If it wasn't for the complete botch job the 2006 team pulled against FL, it is my opinion the media wouldn't have come down so hard on the 2007 squad. They were a young team that played a fairly soft schedule and took care of business (with one exception). They had a chance against a very good & much more mature SEC champ (LSU) playing them in their home town. Rather than talk about how over rated, etc, OSU is - they would be talking about what a great season the young team had and how great they would be in 08.

I know this - a lot of USC folks on the insider boards think OSU is a joke. They fully expect to tie up our WRs, stop Beanie and dominate this game. They think the speed on the ends will be a problem on passing downs as well (a la FL, LSU). On the flip side they don't buy into our defense being worth a hoot either. Talk about all the points rang up by Ill & LSU last year (LSU really bad example imo with turnovers). They don't think they will run over us when on offense, but they think they will shut us down enough to have plenty of opportunities. They believe this game will be a 3TD win for USC.

I would love to shut them up, but they have valid reasons for thinking this way. I'm an OSU homer all the way, but objectively I see us matching up with USC pretty well - although there are lots of questions to be answered for both teams before the season starts. Earlier in the year, I predicted a close loss. Once the season gets here and I watch both teams play a little I'l re-evaluate what I think will happen. For now I'll stick with a close loss - LA is very hard on OOC opponents:yikes:

[Redhunter1012]

Great post FNF. If you have one positive, it's that USC isn't really strong at CB. They never are for some reason. Taylor Mays at S is the best I've ever seen though. Mauluga is so dam dominant at LB as is Cushing. But, on offense I expext them to struggle against you guys. I Think if Boeckman can be a leader and be as good as they say he's been, then you guys should be able to beat them. But they are right in assuming they will frustrate you with the heat on the edge. Remember Everson Griffin. That guy is an absolute beast at DE. And I think they'll line him up over Adams if they can. You guys need to implement some speed in the passing game. Robiskie and Hartline are both fine WR's, but neither one are burners. Maybe Saine or Ray small.

[Deehntr56]

Sanchez is not going to hurt OSU......He's got a strong arm, but..I don't see him being a factor.

I think USC has some great Linebackers and corners with good speed..they'll keep us on our toes.

We'll struggle with Teams South of us more(SEC) than with teams out West.

I predict...go out on a limb.....get out the crystal ball..... if you want to call it that...you will see a few "sweater vest wrinkles" in this game.:biggrin:

Watch for Pryor in some form, and Saine looked really good in Spring practice.

Boeckman was really sharp as well.

Boeckman surprised me last year. I expected he would need another year, but he was ahead of schedule.

This year will indicate his progress, and we will know after the 1st few games.

Look for Beanie to make a run at the Heisman.

Look for our defense to being even more dominant this season especially if the corners progress on schedule.

If it all comes together.....this team could be really, really good. Time will tell.

But again, look at UM last year...they were supposedly ready to make a run for it all....and flop.

It could happen at OSU. It could happen with any team.

3 games in we will see how 2008 will unfold.

[Fish-n-Fool]

Like everybody else I just can't wait for this game. If both teams play to their strengths it should be a fairly low scoring game - even though USC tends to score 40 points a game!! Realistically speaking - both teams should have an edge when on deffense.

And Red - the USC folks say this year's team has more speed on the ends and more talent overall; just less game experience. They no doubt have some serious weapons.

[Redhunter1012]

It's almost unfair. They have 5 star talent atleast 2 deep at every position. I agree on Sanchez. I don't expect him to be a world beater. I still think Mustain will be the starter. Dee, no team has a chance to flop like UM did last year. That was a disgrace that attributed directly to the coaches. You would be shocked if you knew the difference between the old and new regimes game prep. Although more experts agreed that USC losing to Stanford last year at home was actually more of a shocker than UM/Appy St. I would like to agree but can't:nono: But, if you look at talent, Appy St will have more players drafted this past draft and the next 3 combined than Stanford will.

[Deehntr56]

Pete Carrol's defensive philosophy......


Defensively they do a lot of different things. However they play defense not just to stop people or make them go three and out. They play defense to get the football. Every time the ball is snapped the defense tries to take the ball away from the offense. If the defense can take the ball away from the offense they are going to give it to the offense which is going to keep it until they can score. The offense can not score without the football. For that matter the defense can score if they get possession of the football.

Coaching football is a collection of a lot of little philosophies or beliefs. I don’t know quite how to describe it, but there are a lot of little philosophies in everything that coaches do. It goes from holding onto the football to coaching stances or getting after the football on defense.

When Carrol started out coaching he spent three years as a graduate assistant. No one would hire him at first or even send him a rejection letter. A good friend told him that there was a graduate assistant’s job open at the University of Arkansas. That was the year Lou Holtz went there as the head coach. He got the position and it was the best thing that ever happened to him.

During that time He got to work with Monte Kiffin’s staff on defense. He had been at Nebraska before he came to Arkansas. I think he was one of the best coaches in the United States. He is just an unbelievable coach. He ran a 4-3under defense that he perfected at Nebraska and they won a national title and many conference titles while he was there in the 1970’s. He brought that same defense to Arkansas. Carrol has been running that same base defense since 1977 when he learned it from him. He has used variations of this defense his entire career. He stayed with its principles through all his years of coaching. He knows the defense and its adjustments so well that his belief in the system is strong and rock solid.

There is no offensive play calling or defensive scheme that is going to win national championships for you. It is how you can adapt and adjust to making the schemes work and working those into the type of players you have. The only way you can do that is to have a strong belief system. If you can’t say what your philosophy is or tell others what you believe in then you don’t have a philosophy.

Good coaches have that mind set.....the game in the 3rd week will also be fought between 2 coaches on the sidelines.......the winner of that small battle, will have somewhat of an impact on the final results!!!:biggrin: