One week after We get Pryor...we may get.... [Archive] - Ohio Sportsman.com

Redhunter1012

03-28-2008, 10:17 PM

Yea Jeffmo, you guys can have him. The reason he's leaving is he can't handle what the new staff is throwing at him. His old OL coach was Andy Moeller. Moeller was known as a complete nice guy, but a terrible developer of talent. Jake Long will be his 1st good OL he produced. The new regime at UM is putting this team through Absolute Hell. Boren won't be the last to leave, they will be atleast 5-6 more, some of them starters. It's to bad he trhough our program under the bus like he did. He whined the past 2 weeks about coaches cussing too much at him and not giving enough positive reinforcement. I'd be very surprised if Tressell took him. Usually conference teams won't accept other conference foes transfers, but with Tressell, who knows. We did however pick up J.T Turner today. He is one of the best Cornerback/Safeties in the country. Oh, he's from Massillon Ohio. Don't be fooled, Tressell wanted him very, very bad. The wall Tressell put up around Ohio while Lloyds lazy ass was coach is gonna be eventually taken down, and this is just the start.

Deehntr56

03-28-2008, 10:29 PM

I think losing a starter as a sophmore...is a HUGE loss for Michigan.....they lost 3 lineman the past 2 weeks.......and if Moeller couldn't coach talent......it's funny how that became appparent now, after this happened....he was fine before then......obviously...for Boren to leave his Fathers and Mothers school......there had to be some underlying reasons besides RichRod busting their butts...all football players go through that......

------------------------------------------------------------------------
One thing seems certain. Justin Boren isn't going to play for Michigan anymore. Consider his prepared statement:

"I regret leaving behind my (Michigan) friends and teammates, but I need to stand up for what I know is right.

"I wore the winged helmet with pride, whether we won or lost, whether things were going well or times were tough. Michigan football was a family, built on mutual respect and support for each other from Coach (Lloyd) Carr on down. We knew it took the entire family, a team effort, and we all worked together.

"I have great trouble accepting that those family values have eroded in just a few months. That same helmet, that I was raised on and proudly claimed for the last two years, now brings a completely different emotion to me, one that interferes with practicing and playing my best and mentally preparing for what is required. …

"I wish my teammates the best and will always be proud to have been a part of Michigan football over the past two years."

Rodriguez was terse in his reaction, much as he was when quarterback Ryan Mallett -- who was projected to be the starter before Carr retired -- transferred to Arkansas.

"I only talk about the guys who play for Michigan," Rodriguez told The Detroit News.

Two other offensive linemen, Alex Mitchell and Jeremy Ciulla, also have left the program.

Boren plans to finish the semester at Michigan. By transferring, he would have to sit out the 2008 season but would have two years of eligibility remaining. If he transfers to Ohio State, he would not be eligible for a scholarship under Big Ten rules.

The Buckeyes are recruiting his younger brother Zach, an outside linebacker at Pickerington North who will be a senior this fall.

"Three years ago, if I had seen in a crystal ball that the whole coaching staff was going to change halfway through his career, I would have never let Justin go to Michigan. I would have told him to go to Ohio State," Mike Boren said. "I'm disappointed and I'm hurt because my wife and I both graduated from the University of Michigan. I didn't want this to happen; it's the last thing I wanted to happen.

"But, basically, the bottom line is you have to look out for your kid and what is best for him."

Deehntr56

03-28-2008, 10:45 PM

Redhunter1012

03-29-2008, 05:21 PM

Redhntr1012 quote " We did however pick up J.T Turner today. He is one of the best Cornerback/Safeties in the country. Oh, he's from Massillon Ohio. Don't be fooled, Tressell wanted him very, very bad."

Oh..and on J.T Turner...not bad...rated around 12-15 by scouting networks, so there were a dozen better in front of him...but the Buckeyes picked up C.J Barnett already...... rated 5-7th in the country.....so I think they did a tad better, and didn't need J.T :biggrin: :biggrin:

Dude, OSU wanted JT no doubt. He'll actually end up being a Safety for us. Atleast that's what most project. That is what OSU wanted him for also. Aloty of schools wanted him. He'll end up a top 100 player for sure. And trust me, nobody thought Moeller was a good coach. The only reason he had a job was because Lloyd and the buddy system. UM fans loathed him. Hell, he was a LB in college. The truth is Boren couldn't handle unfamiliar coaches who are total psycho's about strength and conditioning.

jeffmo

03-29-2008, 06:38 PM

The wall Tressell put up around Ohio while Lloyds lazy ass was coach is gonna be eventually taken down, and this is just the start.

so i guess what you're saying is that without the help from the ohio boys michigan wouldn't have very much talent huh?
that's okay though it helps them be competitive!

Redhunter1012

03-29-2008, 08:03 PM

so i guess what you're saying is that without the help from the ohio boys michigan wouldn't have very much talent huh?
that's okay though it helps them be competitive!

That's exactly what I'm saying! UM hasn't done anything in 5 years really and pretty much gave up recruiting Ohio. The thing is, Ohio has a butt load of High School football talent and no other major instate rival. So, they get who they want , unlike when UM used to hit Ohio hard. The state of Michigan has roughly 20% of the talent Ohio does in HS football. We have to get our recruits on a more national basis than OSU. But now we are starting to make some inroads. If we could just start getting some of the Glenville kids we'd be in real good shape:coolgleamA:

TheCream

03-29-2008, 08:25 PM

I never thought JT or Coop had a wall up around Ohio. There are always Ohio players that migrate to Michigan, and there are even some Michigan players that go to OSU (e.g. Krenzel).

I wish there was a wall up around Michigan though. Then with enough rain, it would fill up with water and become a lake...or maybe a cesspool? :mischeif: :D

Deehntr56

03-29-2008, 09:03 PM

LMAO...Oh man Cream....:biggrin:

Red...Ahem...whenever your rated in the top 20, you are going to have lots of schools looking for you....the bottom line, is that OSU got Barnett a long time ago, rated higher than Turner and didn't need Turner...Barnett was rated as one of the top 6 safeties in the country...why would Tressel want another one??? And especially rated lower that what he got???:confused: :biggrin:

Bottom line...OSU won that recruiting war also!

The bottom line with Boren..is you lost a "starting" sophomore lineman....a good one too....any time you start as a sophomore, in a Division 1 program....you are pretty good...whether you want to swallow that one or not.....he'll go where he fits better...and if OSU gets him...better yet.

And yes...we are a hotbed of talent for football players and wrestlers......that is why Ohio rules!!!

lacure

03-30-2008, 12:23 AM

Redhunter1012

03-30-2008, 10:22 AM

I have been waiting for someone to start this thread. I have direct knowledge of this situation and I pray the Boren kid ends up at osu because he is nothing but a whining quitter. The absolute certainty is twofold: he could not handle the intensity of RR's workouts and he failed to carry himself as a Michigan Man:tsk: . Someone who is willing to throw his brothers under the buss in order to create a "smokescreen" about why he is quitting does not deserve to wear the Maize and Blue. RR is cleaning house and I don't care if the guy was a returning all-american...if he cannot handle the system, get lost.

Keep in mind that when Bo came in to Ann Arbor he had over 12 players quit on him. That is where we get one of our most cherished quotes (as Michigan student-athletes)...when asked about the departures of so many players, Bo simply stated, "Those Who Stay Will Be Champions." We live by those words as Michigan Men and understand the deeper meaning. The Boren kid did not and will have to live with that failure the rest of his life. Believe me, Tressel and osu does not want him (plus, he cannot have a scholarship if he transfers within conference).

Dee...you are 100% correct about Ohio producing the nation's top wrestlers! Tom Ryan is doing a great job of trying to keep them in state at osu and will build the program into a good one again.

Thank you Lcure. I'm not UM alum (not smart enough), but I absolutely bleed maize and blue. I have the upmost respect for you. Rankings don't mean everything,Tressell did want Turner badly. You can spin it all you want about a "recruiting victory", but Barnett was signed, sealed, and delivered to you guys from the get go. He was a Gay Acorn from birth. Turners mom wanted and plead publicly for her son to go to O$U. She had already visited O$U and Sweatervest last year and liked him alot. But last week the family visited UM and she did a complete 180 and agreed that AA was a much better place for her son. Personally, I can't understand it either. I mean that cesspool of a campus in Columbus is so quaint and beautiful.:whistle: Most won't understand that UM fans are now happy Boren left. Just shows the character and work ethic he has to quit and trash his teammates like he did. Not one of Boren's former teammates are happy with him at all. He's trying to say he talked with them and they understand. Well, they understand all right. That he's not a UM man, and they are glad they don't have to go into battle with someone of his Ilk anymore. As Lacure said, "Those Who Stay Will Be Champions"

TheCream

03-30-2008, 11:12 AM

The most beautiful part of OSU's campus, I have to admit, is the scoreboard whenever Michigan comes to town in the JT era. :D :bouncy: :D

Deehntr56

03-30-2008, 11:20 AM

Lacrue....."I have been waiting for someone to start this thread. I have direct knowledge of this situation and I pray the Boren kid ends up at osu because he is nothing but a whining quitter. The absolute certainty is twofold: he could not handle the intensity of RR's workouts and he failed to carry himself as a Michigan Man . Someone who is willing to throw his brothers under the buss in order to create a "smokescreen" about why he is quitting does not deserve to wear the Maize and Blue. RR is cleaning house and I don't care if the guy was a returning all-american...if he cannot handle the system, get lost. "

Seems like we Michigan die hards all of sudden turn on their own players...no one was belly aching about Boren before this...he leaves to better himself and the wolves(wolverines) attack......Direct knowledge(depending on where that direct knowledge comes from) means nothing, unless you have been inside Boren's Heart....you will hear all kinds of stories out of UM(like we are hearing here).....Boren professionally made his statement, "his statement" and moved on, and one statement isn't whining, it was his "reason", his reason, so accept it and move on......he'll red shirt and play 2 more years somewhere. His dad was a Captain of the football team for UM in his day. He bled maize and Blue as well....and I can guarantee you, he did not want this to happen..neither did Boren...but the player knows...in his heart when something isn't right, either on the field or otherwise, and when the "fit" , whatever it is, is no longer good for him.........you have to make a call. Rich Rod...didn't cut the player...the player left. Boren is a perfectly capable starter, and will find a new home. It just leaves "another" hole in the Dam...that needs to get plugged up unexpectedly.

Like anyone coming into a new system, you will have turnover, but you don't want turnover of players that can help your team...it's how it's being handled at those times of transition that is important. A big Part of coaching is managing people(Tressel is pretty good with that)...and if you want to be a winner you need to manage the players, coaches ,media, fans and yourself...maybe RichRod will, but the bottom line is that in "this" situation we just didn't. Was this new system a fit for Boren??? Probably not...and he knew that, so he made the decision to leave...what about Mallet and the other 2-3 players???? They knew they possibly weren't going to "fit" into the system.....RichyRod will do it his way, and anyone that is successful or tries to be wants it done their way.....and he will make the team more competitive down the road......he's good for the conference....but OSU Rules in the Big Leagues of the Division 1 right now, and has been for awhile....2008 Looks good also, and were looking forward to another fun year.:biggrin: :biggrin:

Turner..........They have Barnett, he's a higher ranked player, committed to OSU....Bottom line is Momma Turner felt it was much better for her son to go to UM, since he wasn't going to start with Barnett there at OSU...so it's pretty obvious he needed to go somewhere else......if he was going to play....Momma knew there was a tad more talent in front of her son.:biggrin: :bouncy:

Lacure...I agree with Ryan, and St. Eds, Walsh, Ignatius produce some real good wrestlers over the years here...even Strongsville, and a few other public schools are coming on with great programs. A few High schools in Central and Southern Ohio are doing a nice job too.

Deehntr56

03-30-2008, 11:26 AM

Cream...just saw your post before mine:D ...not only in THE SHOE, but in the last 6 out of 7 games!!!:biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin:

lacure

03-30-2008, 11:34 AM

Dee,
I have no problem with a young man making a decision about leaving. I have a HUGE issue with the way in which he handled it. Mallett made a move and everyone understood it. He did not have to "bad-mouth" his team and throw his teammates under the bus. He made a decision he thought was best for him and quitely left. Boren, on the other hand, knew that everyone understood he was leaving for one simple fact...he could not handle the workouts. However, instead of leaving with his mouth shut, he decided to try to deflect criticism by throwing RR and his teammates under the bus. In my opinion, that is classless and weak, but, obviously, he is a weak person or he would not have had to quit. No one mentioned Boren prior to this because he did not make an a&% out of himself prior to this.

Again, look at Bo's first year...he had a mass exodus too, but it worked out pretty well for him. Michigan and RR will take their lumps for the next year or two, but we will be just fine in the long run.

Deehntr56

03-30-2008, 11:42 AM

Lets assume what he said is correct? Lets assume that something about RichRod and the "family vaues" in Borens mind don't mesh?

Lets assume that, in light of what happened on the exodus at WVU, that there is some "underlying" tendencies of Rich Rod that may precepitate, some questions in someones mind about Values, tendencies, mannerisms etc.>???

There is a possibility of this, don't you think?:confused:

Don't know...but you need to keep your eyes open......

And don't forget, Boren left for other reasons beside his teammates...he never mentioned his teammates as being the reason.

Redhunter1012

03-30-2008, 11:49 AM

jeffmo

03-30-2008, 03:07 PM

how 'bout this,could it be that this young man simply got tired of being part of a program that was getting beat by the likes of app.state and consistantly suffering through losses to ohio state?????
that'd be my guess.

"I have no problem with a young man making a decision about leaving. I have a HUGE issue with the way in which he handled it. Mallett made a move and everyone understood it. He did not have to "bad-mouth" his team and throw his teammates under the bus. He made a decision he thought was best for him and quitely left. Boren, on the other hand, knew that everyone understood he was leaving for one simple fact...he could not handle the workouts. However, instead of leaving with his mouth shut, he decided to try to deflect criticism by throwing RR and his teammates under the bus. In my opinion, that is classless and weak, but, obviously, he is a weak person or he would not have had to quit. No one mentioned Boren prior to this because he did not make an a&% out of himself prior to this."

lacure,this statement a fact or just opinion?
nobody except that young man knows why he decided to leave or what the exact circumstances were that led to his decision.suppose he caught any flak from rr personally about his decision?
may rr came across as the type of coach this kid disliked,maybe he just wanted a change of scenery.
my gut feeling is that if this kid had stayed at michigan or transferred to ANYWHERE but ohio state,you and red would have spoke of him like he was the best thing since sliced bread.

Deehntr56

03-30-2008, 06:14 PM

Yes we are Hilarious.....I enjoy making you boys laugh since your having a hard time being happy with the UM program nowadays.:biggrin:

Oh Contrar there Red...."YOU" stated that Turner was a clear, oh man we lost a great one to UM, and a can't miss #1 rated safety, that will be the next coming of safeties/CB..LOL :idea: when the facts are Turner was rated much lower than Barnett....do we need to help you understand the numbers a tad better? and if OSU wanted him bad enough we would of got him....just not NEEDED bad enough, since we have recruited and taken higher rated players.

You don't even mention Cissoko who is rated #3 in the country at CB..that you guys recruited this year and landed...in your home state.....dam...he's better that turner...why would you want turner...DA???? Oh he's fom Ohio, never mind!

OSU is also working on Darrel Givens(who is rated higher than turner too):bouncy: for cornerback and not only that they have Jamie Wood, 4.5 speed and EJ Banks(Banks not committed yet)both top 20 at CB/S coming as well.....so you see Turner is not needed, as much as you want to believe, and create that story.:biggrin:

You would need all of them, USC's defense and LSU's speed to handle the Pryor Kid and OSU offense anyway!!!:biggrin:

I don't know how you lost that one to Tressel....on second thought I do!!:biggrin:

and with all this whining...I really want to know one thing.......It's ok for Rich Rod to bolt, leave his "team" and school(who he wanted to coach since he was a young man) and leave them all in the learch, But Boren dumping him and UM according to UM fans, is beacuse he's a whining wimp of a player that can't handle it:whistle: RichRod doing it is ok, but Boren...oh my.......I really would like to see how long your gonads would still be between your legs, if you Told the 6"2" 310 Boren he's a wimp to his face:biggrin: .......I would assume you would be fishing them out of your mouth after he promptly deposited them there!:biggrin: :biggrin:

I haven't been around this many years for no reason......so Red....questioning my knowledge about the game and what I see really means nothing coming from someone I have conversed with on line for 2 weeks, and who bashed a WVU fan on his 1st post, and continually tries to convince us that UM is some kind of powerhouse, I'll let you know when they get there......maybe visiting a MICHIGAN forum for UM talk would be more appropriate, so you can all play smiley face together and continue to wish you can compete with OSU.

7 OUT OF 8 IN 2008!!!! GO BUCKEYES!!!

deerhunt45

03-30-2008, 07:32 PM

" I mean that cesspool of a campus in Columbus is so quaint and beautiful.:whistle:"

At least try to keep it above the belt Red...:cheeky-smiley-022: :rolleyes: .

Ironically, my wife is going to see a top specialist and he is at UM. So I'll be sure and tour the campus up there and be able to form an honest opinion :whistle: Been to and around campus at OSU many times for various events, spent several days at Minnesota's facilities and visited Notre Dame as well.
Might as well include UM :D

forgot, been to Purdue campus once too :)

jeffmo

03-30-2008, 08:07 PM

I have direct knowledge of this situation and I pray the Boren kid ends up at osu because he is nothing but a whining quitter.
.
let me get this straight,ol rich bolts from wva to better himself at michigan then the boren kid bolts from michigan to better himself at ohio state,but the boren kid is a "whining quitter" as you say? then just how would you categorize rich,a "whining quitter"maybe??

lacure

03-30-2008, 08:21 PM

Dee, Deer and Jeff,
You guys are really missing the point and facts here. To answer your question, jeffmo, this information I am providing is absolute fact. Believe me, I know.

Dee, as for RR making a decision to upgrade his position is nothing but smart and honorable and the way in which he went about it was absolutely perfect. So, would you say the same things about the coach at Youngstown State who up and left his team and went to osu??? It is basically the same thing....RR saw an opportunity to improve himself, his career and work with one of the top programs in the country...coaches make this choice every single year. You guys just like to bash him b/c he went to Michigan. Don't believe the crap that WVU tried to feed the media about his departure...as we have all seen, that has quickly left the front page because it is nothing but lies and WVU finally figured out how childish they were acting.

Dee (and anyone else who has this question)...believe me, I would have no problem telling Mr. Boren that I believe he is a quitter, a whiner and made a poor decision (about how he handled his leaving...throwing his teammates and his coach under the bus) to his face. I have chopped down bigger trees than him when I was at UM (if you know UM football, you would recognize the names Glen Steele and the late Ben Huff). Both of them looked at a little 150 lb wrestler (weight class, not normal weight) and forgot that he was a wrestler who knows how to handle himself:tsk: . From my experience and, I am sure from Boren's, he would not want to mess with a UM wrestler. Just wanted to clarify this point a little. I hate saying things like this on stupid websites, but I also get a little ticked off at people who assume that because someone has size, they can handle anyone/everyone. I have seen and proven this wrong too many times to just let it slide.

In my opinion, the bottom line is the young man handled his leaving Michigan in a poor manner...that is all I am saying. Whatever you believe his "reasons" for leaving are inconsequential...it is the way he handled it. I happen to have factual information about his decisions, but it really does not matter. He did not act like a Michigan Man.

Finally, just to clarify, he has not decided he is going to osu...still up in the air. I am not sure if Tressel would take him or if any of you osu fans would really want him, but if you do and you get him, good luck with that.

Deehntr56

03-30-2008, 09:24 PM

LaCure...so did Boren..he left to improve himself...and my sources say many of his points about values are correct. Again, watch closely on how he operates, I have questions and only time will tell.....if it was perfect for RR, Then the lawsuit and all the BS about leaving and breaking the contract was just a cover?????, I can see why UM program is struggling...it is by far the perfect way to leave your team....hanging.

Listen...I was 6'1" and 240 lbs in my prime....now the muscle has turned into some old style, old mans muscle:biggrin: but I know when to open my mouth and when not too...and I don' care how big you are, or how big you "think" you are....you tell Boren to his face he's a wimp...you will join Red in extrapulating your Gonads out of your mouth...I don't care if their made of titanium alloy, and your brain is somewhere in left field allowing you to do it.:biggrin:

Tressel left after the season...not when the team was still playing and playing in a major Bowl, leaving his current team in the lerch...Boren( and the others) may of given RR some of his own medicine...what goes around comes around....there are ways to do this properly.

You feel Boren was wrong in how he left..and many feel Rich Rod was wrong on how he left....oh well....that's life.....but that is the way it is....so some day, who knows when...... the UM fans will be able to accept it and move on...but Boren(If he chooses OSU) will look good in an OSU uniform, Tressel looks great in his Sweater vest, the Heisman and Big Ten Championship, along with the National Championship and 3 BCS appearances in the last 6 years all look great in Columbus!!!!:biggrin: :biggrin:

Jeff...been there a few times...I'm ok with the school....tell us how it goes when you get back!!!

The Point being missed is on the UM side......we know what happened, you guys want to spin it the way you want it to happen!

Redhunter1012

03-30-2008, 10:17 PM

Dee, you know crap! How many times do I have to tell you that Turner is not a CB. Once the ratings are updated, he'll be listed as a safety. It's already set for him to be a safety. Jesus Christ, you sound like a Fu**ing Retard with the "we got a higher rated player than you" crap. I never said he was a #1 safety or anything. Just asaid he was a really good one that Tressell and O$U wanted very badly. You're the one who can't accept the fact that we got one that you wanted. And maybe your right. If you wanted him bad enough, you woulda got him. Just let the boosters at O$U have their way with him. That's the Jim and Dick Tressell way! As far as cissoko, we got him in the '08 class. We have been talking about the '09 class. Duh. And I'd like to think Lacure would kick the hell out of Boren any day and twice on Sunday. It'd take less than 15 seconds before submission, I'll guarantee. Every one of the players came out and basically told how Boren and the other 2 linemen that quit were lazy as hell. That's why nobody liked Moeller as a OL coach. No player accountability. Boren can't handle getting cussed at. Needs a few more hugs. Good riddance. And any player that quits from here on out, GOOD RIDDANCE!

jeffmo

03-30-2008, 11:44 PM

[QUOTE=Redhunter1012;246517]Dee, you know crap! How many times do I have to tell you that Turner is not a CB. Once the ratings are updated, he'll be listed as a safety. It's already set for him to be a safety. Jesus Christ, you sound like a Fu**ing Retard with....

young man,that level of respect that you are showing does nothing but make you look foolish! show some class and clean it up.there's absolutely NO reason for a personal attack like that.
i'd guess that you're embarassing the other michigan fans on this site.

deerhunt45

03-31-2008, 08:04 AM

[quote=Redhunter1012;246517]Dee, you know crap! How many times do I have to tell you that Turner is not a CB. Once the ratings are updated, he'll be listed as a safety. It's already set for him to be a safety. Jesus Christ, you sound like a Fu**ing Retard with....

young man,that level of respect that you are showing does nothing but make you look foolish! show some class and clean it up.there's absolutely NO reason for a personal attack like that.
i'd guess that you're embarassing the other michigan fans on this site.

Well said. No need for the personal attacks and cussing!

lacure

03-31-2008, 08:16 AM

Dee,
Obviously, you think you know something about Boren and the Michigan program, but you are way off base if you think RR left his team hanging. The bottom line is MOST of the time a coach decides to make an upgrade in his career prior to a bowl game, the school he is with asks him to step aside for that game. Also, what did you want RR to do...wait around for someone else to jump at such a golden opportunity??? Seriously, most of your points are well thought out, but you seem a bit clueless on this one. There is one thing remaing in regards to RR and WVU...the buyout and from what I hear, WVU is being more than cooperative in making that "go away." Again, as with the crap about missing records/files, etc., they now see how childish they were acting and do not want to further embarrass the WVU program by trying to wage a slander war agains RR...a guy who made the same decision any wise coach in his shoes would have made. He handled it as good as you can.

As for Boren, I hope the kid finds a home somewhere in a program that does not push him too much, make him feel uncomfortable, does what he wants/asks/says, lays off when he needs a breather, etc. Not sure where that is, but hopefully it will work out for him. You say he left to improve himself, just like RR did, but let's see how much he improves. He left because he could not handle the system...RR left because he had an amazing opportunity that he could not pass up.

Finally, I am not going to get into a "I am tougher than you are" discussion, but I will say that I have no problem telling Boren how I feel about him (he is weak, a whimp and handled his situation in an incorrect manner) to his face, if ever give the opportunity. Obviously, you once again do not understand and I am not going to try to make you understand.

CritterGitter

03-31-2008, 08:40 AM

I'll admit I mostly skimmed this as I am not about to try to win any of the specific arguments in this thread. Though, I did find something worth adding:

I believe someone at some point said something about championsips.

The Ohio State University is going for it's 3rd straight outright Big Ten Championship which is something never done before.....not even by that school up north. Also, they have been in the National Championship game 3 times since 2003. No other Big Ten school can make that claim. Oh, and save your breath about them being over-rated as I, nor any other fans had much to do with where they were ranked. They did win 1 of the National Championship games.

Let's see..................the last time that school up north won a National Championship was how many years ago? decades ago? Oh, and your new coach........the last time he won a National Championship............oh wait he hasnt, but he did have an incredibly talented team this past year and all he did with that was choke in a game against a rival that had a terrible record(not a rival that regularly competes for the conference and national title).

Just a little food for thought.

Kyle

lacure

03-31-2008, 08:53 AM

Critter,
I would be the last to say that osu has not earned their accolades in the past few years. Tressel has put together some strong teams and has the program running well.

As for when Michigan last won a National Title...it was the 1997-98 season. Undefeated National Champs. Oh and before anyone jumps in with the "They shared the national title" argument, keep this in mind: Michigan was ranked #1 throughout most of the year by the Coaches and quite a bit of the year by the Media. However, the evening before the final rankings came out, Osborn announced his retirement. The next morning, he was "given" the #1 coaches ranking (think what you want, but we all know it was a going away present from the coaches) and Michigan was #1 in the media.

Regardless, their last national title was the 97-98 season.

Oh, and by the way, just to throw some numbers out there: Michigan and osu are tied with 16 outright Big 10 Titles apiece and Michigan has a total of 42 shared/outright titles, while osu has 31.

CritterGitter

03-31-2008, 09:45 AM

Maybe RR can get it turned around. Though, if I were a fan of that team I would not be overly optimistic. It sounds like he has a tough row to hoe.

I could care less about the lineman that left. I don't think his staying or leaving was going to have that big of an impact on the program.

The QB situation up there is certainly bleak though.

Kyle

lacure

03-31-2008, 09:54 AM

Critter,
You nailed it...the QB situation is horrible. Hopefully, they can pull something together. I think it will be 1-2 years of frustration for everyone (fans, players, coaches) and then RR's system will really start to take shape as he gets his recruiting classes in there. We will see though. I am most definitely not too optimistic about this year.

TheCream

03-31-2008, 10:40 AM

You guys are hilarious. With all your scoreboard replies. LOL. Usually a mark of someone without knowledge of the topic being discussed. Damn, the way you make it sound, Barnett is gonna be a world beater. My guess is you've never looked at his film or Turners. Barnett is ranked #6 nationally as a CB. He is 6'1" 180lbs. He is described as a cover corner by all scouts. Turner is rated as the #12 Cornerback nationally. He is 6'2" 185lbs, and described as an all around Defensive back who will Easily grow to play safety in College. You see, they are 2 different positions. Turner will never play CB in college. Therefore, that is why OSU wanted him so bad. They definately could use him in the future at Safety. They have numerous other safeties that they are trying to get now, but none with the athletic ability of Turner. And, Tressel does not like UM coming in establishing another bigtime option for these Ohio kids. If you want, go find someone who truly knows recruiting and ask them what I'm saying, they'll back it up. Now, with that being said, Turner obviously looked at the depth chart at UM and seen all the safeties graduating after this year. And, the rankings mean nothing to these kids. They all feel that they are the best and will win the position. That is what makes them the best. For example, If you honestly believe your other qb recruit (Johnson) doesn't think he can beat out Pryor, then your fooling yourselves. They all have the upmost belief in their own abilities.

Buddy, I am just enjoying this while it lasts. I remember the Cooper era too well to let this go without enjoying it!!! :nono:

And I will have to dig up the scoreboard picture I took in '04 (I think it was '04) after my buddy and I rushed the field in the Shoe. That was Troy Smith's first Michigan game, and Teddy Ginn Jr returned that back-breaking punt into the endzone right in front of us. I have never heard the Shoe that loud. We were in row 30 on the corner of that endzone.

I have no doubts Rich will turn Michigan around in a year or two. No doubts whatsoever. I expect the rivalry to really heat up in the next few years, but for right now, I am going to enjoy this wonderful run while it lasts. :coolgleamA:

lacure

03-31-2008, 11:18 AM

Cream,
I don't blame you at all...I do miss the Cooper days! I also really hope RR turns things around up there so the rivalry gets pumped up again. Football season cannot get here soon enought!!!

Deehntr56

03-31-2008, 12:48 PM

Redhunter10112 quote from begiining of thread....Redhntr1012 quote " We did however pick up J.T Turner today. He is one of the best Cornerback/Safeties in the country. Oh, he's from Massillon Ohio. Don't be fooled, Tressell wanted him very, very bad."

Red's quote below......Originally Posted by Redhunter1012
Dee, you know crap! How many times do I have to tell you that Turner is not a CB.

Redhunter full quote.....We did however pick up J.T Turner today. He is one of the best Cornerback/Safeties in the country. Oh, he's from Massillon Ohio. Don't be fooled, Tressell wanted him very, very bad. The wall Tressell put up around Ohio while Lloyds lazy ass was coach is gonna be eventually taken down, and this is just the start.

Need I say more........shoots a huge hole in that target above.

I'm at work enjoying this at lunch......Found 2 sheds yesterday too.:biggrin:

Lacure.....In RR's case, I would of not left the team before a Bowl game.....some arrangement could of been negotiated to leave after.....that I know can happen, an has happened, I just would not have left a team like that..in either RR's case or Boren's case(But we don't know what was discussed or not privately, no matter who we know)....just my way of doing things, real simple.

In regards to well thought out comments yours are pretty good also, for the most part,some are off, but overall not bad....the most recent one...saying that RR's departure was perfect. It really wasn't. It could of been handled better.

Fish-n-Fool

03-31-2008, 02:04 PM

Turner is a good one and if he develops he has the potential to be a great safety in college. The Vest and TOSU wanted Turner, as did several other D-I colleges. The fact is Tress & Co. can't "put up a fence around Ohio" because we have waaaaaaaaaaaaaay too many D-I college level players that get national interest. Ohio is consistently a top 5 D-I college fb producer - up there with the likes of Texas, FL, California, etc.

This Turner kid won't make or break either team anyway - he isn't a difference maker like a Prior or Beanie Wells, etc. DBs and the safety position are a dime a dozen on the high school level and these guys have to be developed to ever see the field at the level of play exhibited by the likes of UM and TOSU.

As far as Boren - I agree that regardless of what happened up there he should not have made the public remarks he did. UM fans are probably discounting him a bit much as he was the best returner they had; although he was pulled against TOSU in THE GAME last year because he was repeatedly being beaten by our DEs - mostly Vernon though and there is no shame in that as he is a Sunday starter.

It won't hurt UM all that much as the line this year was going to stink with or without him - they are so thin at OL you can see through them this year:D
They will be forced to play freshman at many positions and it will be painful this year and perhaps next year as well. But, those freshman will grow up fast and they should be ready to win some big games down the road - so it is a 2 sided coin.

If Boren comes to OSU I think we will take him, after all it won't cost us a thing (if you stay within the league you have to be a walk on and aren't eligible for scholarships; we wouldn't give him one anyway). He can add some depth as a backup or #3 guy behind the big studs we have at no cost. Another big body to slam around never hurts and under Bollman he may even develop into an NFL caliber player?

Lacure - I've rumbled with a few good wrestlers from OSU and an Ohio high school champ from my area of the state (Ryan Perkins) enough to know that most guys regardless of size don't want that fight:tsk: I've seen the "fly weight" 140lbers turn 260lb men into whining babies in seconds. I used to fight mixed martial arts (still dabble, but am getting old and out of shape) and tried to learn some things from great wrestlers to add to my Kempo/Boxing background. There is nothing funnier to watch than a big 20 something year old muscle bound "stud" with an ego get turned inside out by a dude that weighs less than his sister:biggrin:

lacure

03-31-2008, 02:12 PM

Fish-n,
Great points...I am sure Boren will find a home somewhere and I do hope he ends up ok. Michigan is going to be hurting for a year or two, but I hope the "other side of the coin" turns out well...young guys will have to grow up fast and hopefully that will make them competitive sooner.

Alot of ex-wrestlers get into the MMA deal. I have always been interested, but my wife will have no part of that!!! How did you like it? Pretty intense, eh?

Fish-n-Fool

03-31-2008, 03:02 PM

MMA - I grew up in Kempo; started at age 6. I've always been competitive by nature in everything I do and I can't lie, liked to fight. As I got older the "like to fight" started to erode and getting your arse kicked doesn't feel so good any more:biggrin: It is a very tough sport - even the "winner" takes a beating. I was never going to be the UFC champion or anything like that - just satisfying my own urges legally. I'm just no longer interested in getting beat up!

I let my emotion get the better of me in January and took on a 22 yr. old 250lb guy because I got tired of listening to him talk (I'm just a little guy 5-10 185lbs). After he tossed me around for a few minutes in front of everybody I managed to choke the daylights out of him until he couldn't breath and had to give up. I can't lie, I enjoyed the panic on his face once he realized I was in control and he was in big trouble (he got really shook up). But in reality he won as I could barely walk for 3 days and was sore for > 2 weeks:D I thought he had permanently did something to my back. After that I promised myself that was my last bout with anybody unless I am protecting myself/family and my wife was mad as heck about it anyway. I'm getting older and have a kid now and it isn't just about me anymore.

It is a sport for the young and I wouldn't suggest it for anybody over 30. A wrestling background would do you well though as most of the best are grapplers/wrestlers that learn to strike - not the other way around.

Deehntr56

03-31-2008, 03:47 PM

Excellent…..now were talking football!!!

Nice Job Fish, Lacure, Critter G…..!:biggrin:

Redhunter1012

03-31-2008, 07:26 PM

I'm an ASS! sorry about the personal attack. If I get banned for awhile I understand. Fish'n Fool, I'm not completely sure, but I think it was Schilling or Ortmann at RT that kept alternating due to the beating they were taking. Boren was either at LG or Center, he alternated alot. That doesn't say alot though for us, cause Schilling and Ortmann are still there, but Schilling will be the next great one at UM.

lacure

03-31-2008, 07:33 PM

Red,
I am not a fan of the personal attacks (I made that mistake long ago and wish I hadn't), but I appreciate your passion for the Maize and Blue. It is tough being Michigan fans in Buckeye land. I hope the osu fans understand that it gets a little frustrating for us (especially lately) and do not take this stuff too personally.

It should be a lot of fun and, hopefully, it will get back to the point where sometime we will have something to jibe them about! It won't be this year or next (probably), but hopefully soon.

For all you osu fans, I respect your loyalty and "fanhood." While sometimes I may get a little aggressive/offensive in these kinds of discussions, I don't mean anything personal. I hope no one takes it that way because this really is an awesome site with a lot of great outdoorsmen. I brag to all of my out of state buddies about our site!

Until football gets here, I will be trying out my new Mizuno irons I just bought...hopefully they will make me a better golfer b/c I sure as heck cannot figure it out on my own!

Deehntr56

03-31-2008, 08:11 PM

Redhunter....your good with me. You Love your team, and sometimes we all get all wound up....we are hunters and sportsman that love the sport of hunting and watching great sports teams.

Were good my friend....enjoy yourself talking football!!!

Lacure.....keep talking and having fun with us......it's all a game....nothing more.

I'll be on the course this week too.....getting the rust out of the swing....hopefully!!!

Redhunter1012

03-31-2008, 08:35 PM

Lacure, did you wrestle with Clark Forward? I seen him wrestle at state in 1998 I think. Man, he was awesome. I know he went to UM, but didn't hear alot about him after that. UM got another comitt today from Isaiah Bell, a LB/S from Youngstown Liberty. He is a top 30 Ohio kid. Was a 50/50 chance at getting a late offer from O$U. The kicker is he has 2 teammates that both schools want. Fitzgerald Toussaint and Julius Ferrell are 2 studs on that team that might look at UM a little more now that their teammate comitted.

paulwv

03-31-2008, 08:43 PM

Hey Red........we all need to go and tell those hunting stories....I always kinda like Michigan....well before R...RRR...RRR...RROOOOD...I am tryng to say it :biggrin: :D :D but I can't......:whistle: :D

Later buddy.......

lacure

03-31-2008, 09:07 PM

Good stuff, guys.

Red, Clark was a little after my time. I think he graduated around 2004 or so. I graduated in 1998. He was a stud...he had a solid career at UM, but was plagued with injuries. Last I heard, he is a financial advisor in Ann Arbor.

Glad to see UM is still getting some solid guys. I am really looking forward to seeing what the boys can do once they get comfortable with the new system.

Fish-n-Fool

04-01-2008, 08:17 AM

Bell did not have nor was he going to get an offer from OSU; he has been there twice lately to work out and the position coaches didn't see enough to offer him. He already had offers from Illinois and UM. Rather than work at it and play the waiting game he chose to commit to UM. I don't blame him - I wouldn't want to go through the recruiting fiasco these guys get pushed into either & I'm sure he got the feeling the offer may never surface.

He has a slow first step and his best 40 was barely under 4.6 for us during Jr. workouts. He has the height/frame for safety and he can improve his footwork - and he will need to or he won't play.

The thing with DBs and especially the safety position - 40 times, vertical jumps, 3 step burst, etc - doesn't really mean as much as the public thinks. A 4.6 guy at safety that learns to read schemes and is always in position will make far more plays than a sub 4.4 guy out of position ever will. It is all about being coached up. OSU has a couple athletic FREAKS sitting on the sideline for this very reason. Now if you get a guy that has all the physical pieces AND learns to play - look out, you'll have a M. Jenkins all American type of guy.

The 2009 Ohio class has a boat load of guys like Bell and a handful of freakeshly quick guys.

I think OSU feels really good about D.J. Hunter (Middletown) at safety and will not settle for less. D.J. is a 4.4 (or better) 40 guy, 10.4 100 meter - he ran in the National track meet in Cali on the 4X100 team and they placed top 5 in the nation. He plays safety and hits like a ton of bricks for a 185lbs - reminds you of Major Wright at Florida, but faster. If he slips through the cracks we will go out of state.

Chris fields is perhaps the fastest player in the state and he committed to OSU on the spot. He is a legit 4.35 40 guy, but he has great hands so he won't play any defense; WR all the way. He is one to watch in a few years once he develops.

Fish-n-Fool

04-01-2008, 08:34 AM

And speaking of all out Freaks -

Enough of the little speed burners! The mention of this name is going to make opposing ball cariers trimble in a few years - Johnny Simon.

LITTLE Johny Simon over at Cardinal Mooney - he is 6-3.5 and up to 274lbs (he is listed around 265). Mooney held their Jr. day workouts about 6 weeks ago and Johnny repped 225lbs 48 times:yikes: His official count was ONLY 45 reps because his coach said he was out of form for 3 reps...LOL That is not a misprint - 48 reps of 225lbs!!! To put that in perspective. Vernon Gohlston was #1 in the combine this year with 38 reps, Jake Long #2 with 37 - those guys aren't mince meat!!!!! He is also a 4.0 GPA, "yes sir, no sir" type of kid, very humble (thank God). He will play DT at OSU and has the frame to hit 300lbs +. He is a student of the game and loves to train.

I expect this to be a household name barring injury, etc. and he has the potential to be a 3+ year starter (He is expecting a redshirt).

I love this kid; if you can use that term when describing him:D

Redhunter1012

04-01-2008, 05:22 PM

Yes, Simon is truly a beast. The kid is a legend already to us recruiting junkies:whistle: As for Bell, He'll end up being a Weakside Linebacker for us. The knock on him is slow first step, but hit's like a ton of bricks. The RB at Liberty, Fitzgerald Toussaint, will be a good batlle between UM and OSU.

Deehntr56

04-01-2008, 06:14 PM

Fish-n-Fool

04-01-2008, 06:23 PM

Red - you nailed it with Bell - I bet the kid ends up 225lbs + by his freshman year in college. And this is not a knock on UM, but he wouldn't see the field at LB for TOSU and he knows it. I think he will need to get quicker to ever be a starter up there too, but with the level of trainers and facilities they can really improve these high school guys in a couple years work.

I don't know about the "battle" for Toussaint - OSU hasn't offered and I would actually be surprised if they do. We don't have a history of taking undersized backs anymore and he is a little guy with a frame that says he won't get much bigger. I think the staff at TOSU likes them 220lbs and up and he will need to develop Barry Sanders like legs to get near that. LOL

Dan Herron is as close to him on our team I can think of and he is up near 220 now @ 5-10. I expect to see him in a mop up role this year - they say he is the best guy on our roster that didn't play last year. Regardless, we have a need at the RB position. Too bad a C. Wells only comes along every decade or so!!! I'm sure you Michigan guys will be glad to see him go after this year just as much as it will pain us:biggrin:

deerhunt45

04-01-2008, 07:14 PM

Dee, Red, lacure, Fish-n et al...you guys amaze me with all of the stats and in-depth information. Keep it up, this thread is a pleasure to read.

Red, thanks for post #41. No harm no foul. You have been a solid contributor to the forum in my book and you know your football!

I looked at J Simon's profile and stats on scout.com He is definitely impressive. Go Bucks! :D

Redhunter1012

04-01-2008, 09:20 PM

Absolutely true about Simon....and the reps your talking about is correct there Fish...the guy is a beast...and a smart one to boot!:D

Michigan recruited Cissoko....#3 in his position......has good closing speed, handles receivers bigger then him, and his main draw back is his size, and his vertical leap is only 33"....but is real tough from what I hear...can cover man to man well, and likes to mix it up......he's from Detroit......any other info on this kid?

About Cissoko. His nickname is BooBoo:) He was our 1st comitt last year. He goes to Cass Tech in Detroit. He is very aggressive, and very, very confident that he can shut down anyone. Bob Lichtenfels, who is one of the major recruiting specialists, already remarked that he has the feet of a future 1st round pick. He was the MVP of the Army All American combine his Jr. year. In the game itself in February, he struggled just a little because they had to play Man to Man defense but weren't allowed to play press and jam at the line, which is his whole game. Therefore, they would match up the giant WR from Minnesota over him and play toss up. No doubt, by the 3rd game he will be our nickel CB, if not the first game. He will be a starter in '09. Cass Tech is being very good to UM. We already have Will Campbell (DT) and Teric Jones (wr/rb) comitted that are both jr's at Cass. Campbell is a absolute stud DT that USC and all the big boys want. He could probably be an AA either at OL or DT. Teric Jones just comitted this week. He is a sub 4.4 guy. His only knock is strength and a little questionable on health, but should get better with more strength? About Toussaint, you're right. I thought OSU had offered, but they have not. I was thinking Oklahoma State and anothjer RB we are in on (David Oku)