Wildlife Management

[mrex]

I graduated "magna cum laude" from the wildlife school of hard knocks.

If I've learned anything over the past 20 years of trying to manipulate the game (and fish) I have influence over, it's that nothing is easy and nothing is as simple as it sounds.

Several years ago, I bought a 28 acre lake here in Athens County. The lake was "everybody's favorite fishin' hole" and had produced some of the largest bass on record in Ohio. A tremendous fishery. When I took over, I thought, "all I've got to do is reduce the fishing pressure - kick everybody out - and there will be a 5 lb bass behind every log in a few years." What happened was quite the opposite. The lake filled up with stunted fish and all I really accomplished was pissing everybody off in the local fishing community.

I've had a similar experience with deer. About 20 years ago when I first started buying my own land, I convinced my best friend, who also owns 600 acres that bordered me, to limit the hunting pressure and deer harvest. Well, 20 years later, I can honestly say that the hunting, from a quality perspective, is not as good as it used to be.

Several things have probably contributed to the decline. First, we didn't shoot enough does. Second, we didn't shoot enough bucks. Third, we shot the wrong bucks. And fourth, we didn't cut enough timber....The fourth mistake probably only applies to an area like mine where 95% of the property is forested.

The deer densities got too high. Many of the smaller racked bucks we passed were not necessarily young, and everything with good genetics we've done our best to kill. Our honey suckle thickets (grouse cover) was over browsed and the 150 acre clear cut from 1985 (in the center of the property), is now a pole sized timber forrest.

I clear cut 76 acres about 4 years ago and we've certainly ramped up our harvest target on everything. It will be interesting to see if things improve.

[deerhunt45]

Interesting post Mike. Experience is the best teacher!

[Buckmaster]

Sounds good, my neighbor just clear cut 12 acres. I'll be on the lookout for Mr. Big.

[ohiosam]

Great post Mike! I have a couple of examples also. My sister owns a pretty large parcel of land, about 1100 acres. Mostly farm land with about 25% of it unreclaimed strip mined. While my brother-in-law was living he let anybody hunt. After he died my nephew wanted all the hunting for himself and would hardly let anyone hunt. After about 4 years my nephew finally realized there was a happy medium so now he lets a few people in.

As far as fishing I have a small farm pond, about 3/4 acre. It produces some very nice bass and blue gills for such a small pond. At one time I thought I had the ages structure messed up. I thought I had a bunch of mature fish and they were eating all the fry. I have good friend that has a degree from OSU in fish management(or what ever they call it). He helped his son do a science fair project where they compared water quality to fish size in 6 local ponds. Turned out my pond had 6 times the normal nitrates(from manure out of a neighbors field). My pond had the largest fish. My 1 year old fish were close to the state average 2 year old size. And the age structure was very healthy.

I guess the point is we have to be careful making assumptions and decissions with out enough knowledge or data.

[tuffshot]

It is hard for man to control that which nature never intended to be controlled by man.;)

[WRS77]

Just getting started on my land management here. Mostly reclaimed strip and about 5 acres of woodands. Hoping for the best, but nature only know what or how the picture in my head will turn out once I get it in the ground. We do what we can and try what we must, but ultimately it's all up to nature.

[bowhunter1023]

The hardest thing for me is working my ass off on my 80 acres and knowing that although the neighbors say they are aboard, they killed 3 2.5's with tons of potential this year. :banghead3:

Now the hard part is continuing to do the right things knowing that it may all be a futile venture thanks to the other hunters around me.

[CritterGitter]

Do we manage the wildlife or do they manage us? Who's the ones doing all the work? lol

Also, I don't think you could manage a population of squirrels on less than 200 continuous acres.

I have often said, that the non-hunters that own a lot of property are our best friends. Gives those Alpha bucks a place to hole up when things get dicey in the woods.

:p

Kyle

[Bawana]

Clearcuts are often times the key to good management practices for wildlife. I "only" have 48 acres that I control. I have several sanctuaries for those deer to get into, they aren't clearcuts as such, but close to it. I hinge cut most of the 4-10 inch trees and cut down the bigger stuff. Most of these areas are only about a 1/2 acre in size. This winter they are going to be increased to at least an acre or up to 2 acres in size. While I originally made them for cover, the browse potential for the deer has been fantastic. They also make great nesting areas for my turkeys:D As 1023 said unless you have access to several hundred acres it is difficult to see the results of letting them walk.

[fork horn]

Guys
I know you can manage deer on a property as small as 16 acres look at the picture by my name. They all came off 16 acres in Michigan.. With guys shooting everything that moved around me..!! Hunters like that are my best friends.. I will own their deer if I hunt my place right...

In that picture there is 6 bucks all 135 or better taken in only 7 years. The biggest three going 156t, 168t, 175nt it can be done.. My clients and I have done it hundreds of times..

I have been doing land management consulting for over 20 years now.. I have set up land form UP of Michigan to Kentuckey from east Ohio to Iowa.. habitat improvement is a big part.. food plots & cover.. but how you hunt the proprty is way more importent. The deer must think no one hunts there... and they are safe. I have taken 15 record bucks In Michigan in the last 12 years.. I have 24 bucks mounted in all 22 of them where shot by bow & arrow 9 came from public ground.. I have never shot a buck in a food plot... or because of a "Buck Bed" LOL. I shot those deer because they where sure no one was a round..ooops their mistake.!! Did I have food plots and bedding areas made.. YES on the privet Property I hunt... But How I hunted the property is what got me those bucks you must have a plan on how to hunt the property then go in and improve habitat...

Don't let bad naighbors get you down I have'em or think you don't have enough land my 3rd biggest buck came of the back of a ten acre lot.... There are consultants out there.. guys who can help you.. A good consultant can show how to save alot of money and time in the long run save you lots of hard learned lessons.. Don Higgins of Illinois and I will have a booth at the Deer & Turkey expo in Columbus. Anyone who wants to talk Land management, wild life habitat.. or deer hunting just stop by and say hi...

Tom Mensard

Hang in there...;)

[Bawana]

Hey Tom,
Did Tony L. help with any of your plans?

[mrex]

Guys
I know you can manage deer on a property as small as 16 acres look at the picture by my name. They all came off 16 acres in Michigan.. With guys shooting everything that moved around me..!! Hunters like that are my best friends.. I will own their deer if I hunt my place right...

In that picture there is 6 bucks all 135 or better taken in only 7 years. The biggest three going 156t, 168t, 175nt it can be done.. My clients and I have done it hundreds of times..

I have been doing land management consulting for over 20 years now.. I have set up land form UP of Michigan to Kentuckey from east Ohio to Iowa.. habitat improvement is a big part.. food plots & cover.. but how you hunt the proprty is way more importent. The deer must think no one hunts there... and they are safe. I have taken 15 record bucks In Michigan in the last 12 years.. I have 24 bucks mounted in all 22 of them where shot by bow & arrow 9 came from public ground.. I have never shot a buck in a food plot... or because of a "Buck Bed" LOL. I shot those deer because they where sure no one was a round..ooops their mistake.!! Did I have food plots and bedding areas made.. YES on the privet Property I hunt... But How I hunted the property is what got me those bucks you must have a plan on how to hunt the property then go in and improve habitat...

Don't let bad naighbors get you down I have'em or think you don't have enough land my 3rd biggest buck came of the back of a ten acre lot.... There are consultants out there.. guys who can help you.. A good consultant can show how to save alot of money and time in the long run save you lots of hard learned lessons.. Don Higgins of Illinois and I will have a booth at the Deer & Turkey expo in Columbus. Anyone who wants to talk Land management, wild life habitat.. or deer hunting just stop by and say hi...

Tom Mensard

Hang in there...;)
"How I hunted the property is what got me those bucks you must have a plan on how to hunt the property then go in and improve habitat..."


I suppose "manage" is a subjective or relative term.

There's no argument that any size parcel can be improved, and knowing how, when and when not to hunt a specific area is critical to success. However, to truly manage "wild" deer, as in control or manipulate the quality / age structure of the herd takes many thousands of acres.

Of my 10 best bucks, I've taken 5 off of one 40 acre property (that borders public hunting) that average net score 168" (I'd show you the pictures but I'm guessing the other members of this board are tired of seeing my mug). To say that I've managed the 40 acres would be false....improved it - yes...figured out how to hunt it - yes...used neighboring hunting pressure to my advantage - yes...manipulated the quality - no. My best 5 off of the 800 acre parcel I spoke of in my original post average 148" and I had control of who what and where for 20 years.

In my situation, 800 acres is not enough ground to "grow big bucks"! And I was planting food plots and supplemental feeding way before it was fashionable. Did I help a few slip through the cracks? Probably, but as I mentioned earlier, it's just not that simple. An example, in March of 1995, I video'd 15 mature bucks in one clover / wheat food plot that I know survived the winter. The next summer, I was able to keep tabs on 8 of them. By the time bow season came around, all but 2 had vanished and neither of them was I interested in. Maybe, had I held my tag until January, the band would have gotten back together, but I'll guarantee you this, there can only be so many breeder bucks in any given area and it takes a bunch of acres to have some semblance of control over them.

There's so many variables outside your control. Juvenile buck displacement and replacement, coyote predation, domestic dog activity, competition for receptive does, hunting pressure etc... that cause deer to disperse. The skill level of those hunting around you is critical. A band of bandolero toting comancheros, firing their guns in the air and shouting "where's the tequila" are probably less problematic than a couple of real stealthy bowhunters with the same ideas you have.

Like you, I have been compensated to talk about this stuff for many years. I'm currently doing consults for Cabelas Trophy Property customers. I believe that habitat improvement projects can keep and hold doe groups that, in "theory", will attract breeder aged bucks during the one time of year they are most vulnerable. But I would never tell a client that he can manage the deer that pass through his 20 acre sanctuary. To many variables outside our control.

[fork horn]

I started setting up hunting land when I was 14 years old. I started doing it for huting rights, by the time I got out of high school I had more land than I could hunt... and started charging money to set up properties in 1990. I have been doing consulting now for over 20 years... He started in 1995. I took my first P&Y buck at age 14. Tony shot his first record buck in 1987 with a gun. I hunt mostly with a bow.. all but 2 of the 24 heads I have mounted come with a bow.

I was miss treated by Mr. Lapratt 2 years ago. I met him when I was a young guy around 1990 and showed him pictures of the bucks I had been taking and some habitat improvments I had been doing on my hunting lands. In 2002 he asked me to be his business partner and promised me a lot of things.. after working with him for 3 years... having him introduce me as.. "Oh that's just buddy Tom". Not letting me be involved with bussiness decisions... basically being told to shut up I was just a kid. I cloud see he wanted me on his team to keep me on the bench so no one would know who I was.. I said good bye. Now you know the rest of the story.

He and I do things alot different.. as a matter of fact there is little we do the same. Very little.... I have no hard feelings for the guy.. business is business..( I guess) I am a big beliver in Karma... who you are, what you are, how you treat people and how you live... will all come back to us all one day. ;)

I hope that clears some things up for you on that one..

[fork horn]

Just trying to help you.

If only I had 600 acres in Ohio to manage and hunt.. I have to do it Michigan my biggest property is around 200 acres. We have way more hunting presure and a deer herd so out of balance.. it is sick.. I had 176 deer in one field last night on a 180 acre property I hunt.. only 4 bucks.. one shooter for next year I let him go four times this year. He is only 3 1/2 years old and an 8pt. maybe mid 130's. If he left that land in the day time he would have been dead when he was 1 1/2. If I only had your problems..

Sounds like you have it all figuerd out.. good luck to you.

[mrex]

Just trying to help you.

If only I had 600 acres in Ohio to manage and hunt.. I have to do it Michigan my biggest property is around 200 acres. We have way more hunting presure and a deer herd so out of balance.. it is sick.. I had 176 deer in one field last night on a 180 acre property I hunt.. only 4 bucks.. one shooter for next year I let him go four times this year. He is only 3 1/2 years old and an 8pt. maybe mid 130's. If he left that land in the day time he would have been dead when he was 1 1/2. If I only had your problems..

Sounds like you have it all figuerd out.. good luck to you.

I don't claim to know everything...just more than you.

[Buckmaster]

Please pass the popcorn, "Battle of the Big Heads" is just beginning. :whistle:

[Milo]

I don't claim to know everything...just more than you.Can I borrow this line Mike?:D:D

[Milo]

Just trying to help you.

If only I had 600 acres in Ohio to manage and hunt.. I have to do it Michigan my biggest property is around 200 acres. We have way more hunting presure and a deer herd so out of balance.. it is sick.. I had 176 deer in one field last night on a 180 acre property I hunt.. only 4 bucks.. one shooter for next year I let him go four times this year. He is only 3 1/2 years old and an 8pt. maybe mid 130's. If he left that land in the day time he would have been dead when he was 1 1/2. If I only had your problems..

Sounds like you have it all figuerd out.. good luck to you.Can you manage every 20 acre place you find or just the "right" 20 acres?

[mrex]

Please pass the popcorn, "Battle of the Big Heads" is just beginning. :whistle:
Now that you're here, maybe we could make it "Big Heads" vs "**** Heads"

[mrex]

Can I borrow this line Mike?:D:DOnly when bantering with bb.

[Buckmaster]

I'll pass on Circle Jerk parties. I'd rather talk TQDM.

[Big H]

I'll pass on Circle Jerk parties. I'd rather talk TQDM.

I figured you for the pivot man Buckmaster.

[jackalope]

Now that you're here, maybe we could make it "Big Heads" vs "**** Heads"

Now Mrex, how will that be fair if your participating in both categories.

[mrex]

Now Mrex, how will that be fair if your participating in both categories. right on cue.

[fork horn]

I don't claim to know everything...just more than you.

Wow I get on these fourms trying give fellow hunters some inspiration and hopefully good advice.. and I get this crap..!! Sorry I was not trying to insult your man hood merx.

I don't know everything I am learning and trying new things all the time.. but I have been setting hunting land for a very long time. (most of my life) I hear guys say this can't be done... or I have no place to hunt. I own no hunting land I have a house on a lot on a lake.. all of the property I hunt is owned and hunted by other hunters / farmers or is public land. I grew up on a sheep farm that was in my family for over 150 years. I was tought to find solutions... not excuses. No.. not every property can be a place to kill mture bucks every year.. That said most of my clients know they have big bucks on their land and have taken some of them.. They have me come to help them set up the property and show them how to be more consistent on mature bucks. Not make a hunting paradise on a sand dune.

Guys I am sorry this guy has to be like this.. go back and read I was trying to motivate and encourage this guy.. Not insult him in anyway I am sorry he took it that way.. as I read the post he was looking for some help I treid to give it.. plain a simple SORRY :(

[mrex]

Wow I get on these fourms trying give fellow hunters some inspiration and hopefully good advice.. and I get this crap..!! Sorry I was not trying to insult your man hood merx.

I don't know everything I am learning and trying new things all the time.. but I have been setting hunting land for a very long time. (most of my life) I hear guys say this can't be done... or I have no place to hunt. I own no hunting land I have a house on a lot on a lake.. all of the property I hunt is owned and hunted by other hunters / farmers or is public land. I grew up on a sheep farm that was in my family for over 150 years. I was tought to find solutions... not excuses. No.. not every property can be a place to kill mture bucks every year.. That said most of my clients know they have big bucks on their land and have taken some of them.. They have me come to help them set up the property and show them how to be more consistent on mature bucks. Not make a hunting paradise on a sand dune.

Guys I am sorry this guy has to be like this.. go back and read I was trying to motivate and encourage this guy.. Not insult him in anyway I am sorry he took it that way.. as I read the post he was looking for some help I treid to give it.. plain a simple SORRY :(
You didn't insult my man hood. You made a statement that I believe to be false - the one about managing deer on 16 acres. My original post was simply some observations of the past 20 years. I don't see where I asked for any help. With the exception of the handful of numbnuts that never really add anything of value to this forum, the responses were like yours, just people adding their experience. No need to apologize.

[jackalope]

You didn't insult my man hood. You made a statement that I believe to be false - the one about managing deer on 16 acres. My original post was simply some observations of the past 20 years. I don't see where I asked for any help. With the exception of the handful of numbnuts that never really add anything of value to this forum, the responses were like yours, just people adding their experience. No need to apologize.

Maybe more numbnuts would add more value if people didn’t act like a pompous a$$ consistently trying to belittle their opinions with their super "observations".

[Milo]

Maybe more numbnuts would add more value if people didn’t act like a pompous a$$ consistently trying to belittle their opinions with their super "observations".
Now Now...I'm not going to defend Mike BUT i believe his observations are spot on FOR HIS AREA. The problem he sometimes he tries to apply them across the spectrum and thats where his faults mostly lie. He is not the first or last person to do it. I am guilty as charged also. Mike has a lot to offer but his approach lacks in many was. There is more good in what he posts then bad you just have to wade a little deeper to cross the river.

[Milo]

I know I'm somewhat of a numbnuts, But i have a property similar to this and I find this thread interesting. I have yet to get a handle on this place. I have too many does, super thick cover and a readily available and huntable food source....no results yet....as a matter of fact i have seen nothing over 130 inches there.

[WRS77]

Geeezzz Why is it that every post on here becoming a a Pi#$ing contest. I mean really grow up. If you don't have anything good to add to the forum than don't add anything at all. Almost every topic on here in the past few weeks has become some petty argument or something other than what it was intended. I think all of us have heard the sayinbg, " If you have nothing nice to say, then say nothing at all" I think this goes for forum postings as well. I mean really grow up some. There are many people on here that come here looking for good info to help them out with their hunting, trapping or fishing. The others come to share knowledge and to chat about their experiences. Then there is always those that seem to have n othing good to add to the conversation, but still feel the need to chime in with something off topic or just completly rude or derogitory. Really making me wonder if I join the right set of boards or the wrong one.... Thanks to those ruining a good site.

[CritterGitter]

It all seems relatively tame to me. Man, some of you guys should have been here in this site's first 2 years. We had some real fire storms!

This is a public forum where members will express many differing opinions and that's fine. It aint gonna be one big sing along around the campfire all the time.

Kyle

[deerhunt45]

It all seems relatively tame to me. Man, some of you guys should have been here in this site's first 2 years. We had some real fire storms!

This is a public forum where members will express many differing opinions and that's fine. It aint gonna be one big sing along around the campfire all the time.

Kyle

I agree. Thanks Kyle.

[bowhunter1023]

It all seems relatively tame to me. Man, some of you guys should have been here in this site's first 2 years. We had some real fire storms!

This is a public forum where members will express many differing opinions and that's fine. It aint gonna be one big sing along around the campfire all the time.

Kyle

Ain't that the truth!

I gotta agree with Mike on this one. I won't even pretend to have the knowledge to involve myself in this conversation. I "manage" 80 acres right now with the hopes of adding 105 to the program this year. From your appoach Tom, I should think what I am doing on my properties is working 100% the way it should and outside factors have no influence. I know this is far from the truth. Mike is right about the size of the property needed to truly "manage" a herd. We shoot does and try to improve the habitat. I say I manage for deer, but I use manage pretty loosely...

[mrex]

numbnuts....value

oxymoron(ŏk'sē-môr'ŏn', -mōr'-)

A rhetorical figure in which incongruous or contradictory terms are combined, as in a deafening silence and a mournful optimist

[mrex]

Mike has a lot to offer but his approach lacks in many ways. There is more good in what he posts then bad you just have to wade a little deeper to cross the river.

Milo - all kidding aside, DO YOU OWN A MIRROR???

[Milo]

Milo - all kidding aside, DO YOU OWN A MIRROR???
I only have the one that makes me look fat:nono:...

but I am a handsome devil;):D thats about all i got on you right now:yikes::yikes::mischeif:

[mrex]

The others come to share knowledge and to chat about their experiences. Then there is always those that seem to have nothing good to add to the conversation, but still feel the need to chime in with something off topic or just completly rude or derogitory. :yeahthat:

[TheCream]

If this is a ****-measuring contest, I want in. :D :coolgleamA:

http://myspace-932.vo.llnwd.net/00079/23/95/79235932_l.jpg

[Milo]

If this is a ****-measuring contest, I want in. :D :coolgleamA:


Isn't your resume a little "short"?http://myspace-932.vo.llnwd.net/00079/23/95/79235932_l.jpg

[mrex]

Guys
I know you can manage deer on a property as small as 16 acres look at the picture by my name. They all came off 16 acres in Michigan.. With guys shooting everything that moved around me..!! Hunters like that are my best friends.. I will own their deer if I hunt my place right...

In that picture there is 6 bucks all 135 or better taken in only 7 years. The biggest three going 156t, 168t, 175nt it can be done.. My clients and I have done it hundreds of times..

I have been doing land management consulting for over 20 years now.. I have set up land form UP of Michigan to Kentuckey from east Ohio to Iowa.. habitat improvement is a big part.. food plots & cover.. but how you hunt the proprty is way more importent. The deer must think no one hunts there... and they are safe. I have taken 15 record bucks In Michigan in the last 12 years.. I have 24 bucks mounted in all 22 of them where shot by bow & arrow 9 came from public ground.. I have never shot a buck in a food plot... or because of a "Buck Bed" LOL. I shot those deer because they where sure no one was a round..ooops their mistake.!! Did I have food plots and bedding areas made.. YES on the privet Property I hunt... But How I hunted the property is what got me those bucks you must have a plan on how to hunt the property then go in and improve habitat...

Don't let bad naighbors get you down I have'em or think you don't have enough land my 3rd biggest buck came of the back of a ten acre lot.... There are consultants out there.. guys who can help you.. A good consultant can show how to save alot of money and time in the long run save you lots of hard learned lessons.. Don Higgins of Illinois and I will have a booth at the Deer & Turkey expo in Columbus. Anyone who wants to talk Land management, wild life habitat.. or deer hunting just stop by and say hi...

Tom Mensard

Hang in there...;)

I went back and read your original post. I don't have a problem with you stating your credentials or past experience. It's good to know where the information is coming from and you seem to have plenty to share. What rubbed me the wrong way was the plug for the consulting business. (and the managing deer on 16 acres).

I'll look you up at the expo. We can share some past experiences.

[eschatts]

I went back and read your original post. I don't have a problem with you stating your credentials or past experience. It's good to know where the information is coming from and you seem to have plenty to share. What rubbed me the wrong way was the plug for the consulting business. (and the managing deer on 16 acres).

I'll look you up at the expo. We can share some past experiences.

http://www.evilsfunhouse.com/images/smilies/salute.gif

[TheCream]

Isn't your resume a little "short"?http://myspace-932.vo.llnwd.net/00079/23/95/79235932_l.jpg

Heck no! Don't you recognize this guy? It's Bob, from the Enzyte commercials! :D

[Milo]

http://www.evilsfunhouse.com/images/smilies/salute.gif

Looks like Ed's buyin' Woohooo:D

[HeartLunger]

Heck no! Don't you recognize this guy? It's Bob, from the Enzyte commercials! :D


I feel bad about "chiming" in here because I truly have nothing to offer, but Enzte is for E.D., that's all I'm saying, Cream.

[Milo]

:p:p:p:p:p:pI feel bad about "chiming" in here because I truly have nothing to offer, but Enzte is for E.D., that's all I'm saying, Cream.

[mrex]

Isn't your resume a little "short"?http://myspace-932.vo.llnwd.net/00079/23/95/79235932_l.jpg

Depends...aw your all washed up cream. You have BUNK to back up your claim period.
BUNK?

[TheCream]

I feel bad about "chiming" in here because I truly have nothing to offer, but Enzte is for E.D., that's all I'm saying, Cream.

I thought it was for "natural male enhancement?" :coolgleamA: At least that's what their stupid commercials say.

[noboatdave]

http://www.cleveland.com/business/plaindealer/index.ssf?/base/other/1200562475156060.xml&coll=2

[bowhunter1023]

http://www.cleveland.com/business/plaindealer/index.ssf?/base/other/1200562475156060.xml&coll=2

Way to bust his bubble Dave! Now he knows he wasted all that money!!!

[Milo]

BUNK?No actually its been statistically proven that men who can't believe its possible to shoot a deer over 30-35 yards effectively are shown to have smaller smiling bob's:D

[the junction]

I have a question for mrex. I'm assuming this is the Mike Rex from Athens. Why do you take the time to respond to some of these guys? I just paid 4 bucks to read what you think. Nice story by the way. I would not pay 4 cents to know what the horny rabbit thinks. I understand why you replied to fork horn and I think both of you may have a point. Responding to the numbnuts only drags you down to their level. I may not know as much as you about deer hunting but you could learn from me about people.

[Milo]

I have a question for mrex. I'm assuming this is the Mike Rex from Athens. Why do you take the time to respond to some of these guys? I just paid 4 bucks to read what you think. Nice story by the way. I would not pay 4 cents to know what the horny rabbit thinks. I understand why you replied to fork horn and I think both of you may have a point. Responding to the numbnuts only drags you down to their level. I may not know as much as you about deer hunting but you could learn from me about people.
Search around...he's been much, much worse:D:DoH and welcome the Ohionumbnuts.com:eek::mischeif::mischeif:

[CritterGitter]

I have a question for mrex. I'm assuming this is the Mike Rex from Athens. Why do you take the time to respond to some of these guys? I just paid 4 bucks to read what you think. Nice story by the way. I would not pay 4 cents to know what the horny rabbit thinks. I understand why you replied to fork horn and I think both of you may have a point. Responding to the numbnuts only drags you down to their level. I may not know as much as you about deer hunting but you could learn from me about people.

He has been a member of this site for quite awhile now. If I didn't know better I think he has some fun pokin a few jabs in here and there. I really don't think he minds about what others think, a little background noise isn't so bad. Also, he does contribute a lot of quality posts and information.

Kyle

[the junction]

milo, it was more fun looking at your profile. Have you ever been told the story about glass houses and stones?

[bowhunter1023]

Man nothing like coming out swinging! I love it. I wonder it TO will share his popcorn?

[Milo]

milo, it was more fun looking at your profile. Have you ever been told the story about glass houses and stones?I have a tempered glass house thanks my troll friend...besides my shadow is better than my profile

[huntrjm]

Don't want to hijack the personal attacks but I will be looking to purchase 80-100 acres sometime soon. MREX I see your most productive hunting property borders public hunting also seem to remember you saying try to find a property surrounded by tree huggers. Could I get some direction/opinions of property characteristics and location that will be helpful. Also some initial management practices. I would like to stay in the eastern central part of the state, Muskingum,Guernsey, Belmont, Jefferson, Harrison, but would be willing to go further south if price dictates. Any info on resources would be greatly appreciated. I'm a newbie to post but have been listening in for awhile and respect the experience many of you have. Thank you.

[mrex]

Don't want to hijack the personal attacks but I will be looking to purchase 80-100 acres sometime soon. MREX I see your most productive hunting property borders public hunting also seem to remember you saying try to find a property surrounded by tree huggers. Could I get some direction/opinions of property characteristics and location that will be helpful. Also some initial management practices. I would like to stay in the eastern central part of the state, Muskingum,Guernsey, Belmont, Jefferson, Harrison, but would be willing to go further south if price dictates. Any info on resources would be greatly appreciated. I'm a newbie to post but have been listening in for awhile and respect the experience many of you have. Thank you.
Every property is different but the "tree hugger" angle is still best IMO.

My "honey hole" is a 40 acre rectangle that runs south from the top of an east/west ridge. A public road follows the contour of the ridge cap. The property is bordered by "tree huggers" from the west and south, and a like minded land owner to the east, with the public land being across the road to the north. The property has 3 key variables that make it special. First, it contains the nicest stand of mature white oaks in the section Second, the "tree hugger" property to the south contains the best cover in the area. I see a noticeable increase in deer densities each fall when the nuts start dropping and the human intrusion picks up on the public ground. And third, and I'm not sure why this is, but the genetics "appear" to be fantastic in this general area.

My "anti public ground" opinion pertains more to small private tracts that jut into large expanses of public hunting. The property I spoke of to start this post, that I've tried to improve for the past 20 years, has a 1.5 mile border with a state park (public hunting).

The counties you mentioned are some of the very best in the state. Unfortunately, rural real estate prices will reflect this. If you look a little farther south, (Perry, Morgan, Athens and a few others) your per acre price will come down considerably. Trimble Township in Athens County has the lowest average land value per acre of any Twp in Ohio. However, about 40% of the people that live there are unemployed so the deer get worked on pretty hard year round.

From a pure hunters perspective, old strip mining ground is pretty hard to beat. There's usually water, thickets and a road system already present. The price can be reasonable as it's only real value is usually recreation. If you can find a piece of strip ground, especially in an area bought up by like minded neighbors, I would jump on it as soon as possible.

[mrex]

If I didn't know better I think he has some fun pokin a few jabs in here and there.
How boring would this be if everyone agreed?

I really don't think he minds about what others think, a little background noise isn't so bad.
You have no idea the # of sleepless nights. Especially when some of the "deep thinkers" get after me.;)

[OutdoorOhio]

So, what I got from reading all this is that Mike needs help. Mike, you and I met at the BBBC meeting in Ashland last year. I felt good about my 152 buck until they hung it next to a 180...there was shrinkage, and I'm not talking about the deer. Anyway...if you want some help at this year's banquet, I'm willing to lend a hand. I was hoping to be a member of the board, or group, or whatever, but never heard back from anyone. Also, if you need help ridding your land of those genetic defects, I'd be happy to accompany you!

KC Allen
Outdoor Ohio, Ltd.
www.outdoorohio.com

[mrex]

So, what I got from reading all this is that Mike needs help. Mike, you and I met at the BBBC meeting in Ashland last year. I felt good about my 152 buck until they hung it next to a 180...there was shrinkage, and I'm not talking about the deer. Anyway...if you want some help at this year's banquet, I'm willing to lend a hand. I was hoping to be a member of the board, or group, or whatever, but never heard back from anyone. Also, if you need help ridding your land of those genetic defects, I'd be happy to accompany you!

KC Allen
Outdoor Ohio, Ltd.
www.outdoorohio.com
Our 50th annual awards banquet will be held in Columbus this year at the state fair grounds on the last Saturday in August. We're planning to invite all of our members to bring their mounts, not just the current year inductees, (12,000+ going back to 1958) and everyone we can drag through the door. We're anticipating 2,000 people for dinner, including some of the best key note speakers we've had over the years (Michael Waddell, Greg Miller, James Kroll etc...).

We can use all the help we can get.

[OutdoorOhio]

Hey - you know I'm ready and willing. Contact me through my website and let me know what you need help with. Give me the details and we'll put it on the site ("events") too. Do you have a 50th anniversary logo? I'll bring the cameras out for a nice story on the actual day as well.

Cheers -

[OutdoorOhio]

I went ahead and put a quick blurb online. Let me know if there are changes or something you need to add.

[jackalope]

Tree hugger property huh... Sounds feasible.... I bet the next world record is sitting in Yellowsprings drinking a birdfeeder caffè latte right now. Don't get much more treehugging than that place.

[WRS77]

It all seems relatively tame to me. Man, some of you guys should have been here in this site's first 2 years. We had some real fire storms!

Kyle


So we want to go backto that? I was just asking, I realize that there will be a difference of opinion, that is what the boards are for. It's the manner in which it's done is what makes me question it. The first two years is past and had no affect on this post or any other, it's the past. I wasn't here as alot of others weren't so it doesn't matter to those of us who weren't here. We are all here now, differences of opinion is great it's what spawns new ideas, and imaginative progress forward in our sport. It's just some need to make it that I am smarter than you and bow down. Which I just think is childish and selfish. I mean look how far this post has been twisted from it's original intention now.... that's all I was saying....

[mrex]

So we want to go backto that? I was just asking, I realize that there will be a difference of opinion, that is what the boards are for. It's the manner in which it's done is what makes me question it. The first two years is past and had no affect on this post or any other, it's the past. I wasn't here as alot of others weren't so it doesn't matter to those of us who weren't here. We are all here now, differences of opinion is great it's what spawns new ideas, and imaginative progress forward in our sport. It's just some need to make it that I am smarter than you and bow down. Which I just think is childish and selfish. I mean look how far this post has been twisted from it's original intention now.... that's all I was saying....
Every thread that continues on a few pages tends to grow legs and walk off in different directions. I think the same can be said for most conversations.

[mrex]

Tree hugger property huh... Sounds feasible.... I bet the next world record is sitting in Yellowsprings drinking a birdfeeder caffè latte right now. Don't get much more treehugging than that place.
The property I referred to sits .6 of a mile from the corporation limit of the "Peoples Republic of Athens" or the "oasis of blue" in a "sea of red" as the local "tree huggers" refer to it.

[ohiosam]

Our 50th annual awards banquet will be held in Columbus this year at the state fair grounds on the last Saturday in August. We're planning to invite all of our members to bring their mounts, not just the current year inductees, (12,000+ going back to 1958) and everyone we can drag through the door. We're anticipating 2,000 people for dinner, including some of the best key note speakers we've had over the years (Michael Waddell, Greg Miller, James Kroll etc...).

We can use all the help we can get.

That sounds like it would be great to attend. Unfortunatly it is during the Canfield Fair, which is the big fair in the state, not like that little thing they call a state fair;) And I have to many obligations that week.

[huntrjm]

Every property is different but the "tree hugger" angle is still best IMO.

My "honey hole" is a 40 acre rectangle that runs south from the top of an east/west ridge. A public road follows the contour of the ridge cap. The property is bordered by "tree huggers" from the west and south, and a like minded land owner to the east, with the public land being across the road to the north. The property has 3 key variables that make it special. First, it contains the nicest stand of mature white oaks in the section Second, the "tree hugger" property to the south contains the best cover in the area. I see a noticeable increase in deer densities each fall when the nuts start dropping and the human intrusion picks up on the public ground. And third, and I'm not sure why this is, but the genetics "appear" to be fantastic in this general area.

My "anti public ground" opinion pertains more to small private tracts that jut into large expanses of public hunting. The property I spoke of to start this post, that I've tried to improve for the past 20 years, has a 1.5 mile border with a state park (public hunting).

The counties you mentioned are some of the very best in the state. Unfortunately, rural real estate prices will reflect this. If you look a little farther south, (Perry, Morgan, Athens and a few others) your per acre price will come down considerably. Trimble Township in Athens County has the lowest average land value per acre of any Twp in Ohio. However, about 40% of the people that live there are unemployed so the deer get worked on pretty hard year round.

From a pure hunters perspective, old strip mining ground is pretty hard to beat. There's usually water, thickets and a road system already present. The price can be reasonable as it's only real value is usually recreation. If you can find a piece of strip ground, especially in an area bought up by like minded neighbors, I would jump on it as soon as possible.

Thanks Mike.

[ldog72]

Sounds like you need to have a good old fashioned deer drive during gun week. I do not know how many deer you guys can take but down here is Washington County Ohio we have had some good success with taking the number of does.

During the first couple days of Gun we have about 25 guys from all over come down and go through and some shoot does and some hold out for bucks. This year with the weather being so bad, we only took 24 deer the whole week. Last year we took 47 with no big bucks. This year I took a 140 on Tuesday. I decided to stand for once instead of driving and i was at a pond by a windmill and after about half hour of being there I saw a doe jump up out of some brush and then my 8 point came out and I put a 125 yard neck shot on him as he was trotting up the hill. I put a mueller red dot on my 11-87 and man was that sight money well spent.

Good luck with all those deer, definitely need to thin them out. I know some cops from Cincinnati and they have been sent into the park to eliminate some deer.It has about 120 deer per acre it's crazy. At least they are donating the meat to the food banks.

Well good luck and this is my official first post.