Pines

[WRS77]

I have read alot about different pines and which are best as cover and which seem to get eaten the most. I am curious are there any out there that all of you have had success with or that have failed miserably? I have a few smaller Norway Spruce out that are in the 3 year, but I don't see as many up as I planted. I am replantiung again in the spring sparsly around the property, more Norway Spruce.

[swantucky]

Norways are good but take a long time to grow, mine I believe are in their 7th or 8th year and are really starting to take off. I think I am gonna do white pines next time as they grow alot quicker.

[Monroe]

I have planted over 2000 white pines. I don't have 1 to show for it. If your deer densities are high - I would stay away from white pine. As swan said - Norway spruce grow slower - but unfortunatley, deer eat them too. My best luck has been with virginia pine and austrian pine. Deer seem to really stay away from teh austrian pine. Also cedars - they don't seem to munch them at my place too bad - but they love to rub them!

If you find a good outlet for austrian pine let us know - I have had problems finding them. get most of my trees mail order from the Va dept of forestry -they will ship them anywhere, and their trees rock (except for the fact that deer love them).

Monroe

[Milo]

What are you trying to do with the pines? hide something? screen an area? create dense cover?

[Milo]

I have planted over 2000 white pines. I don't have 1 to show for it. If your deer densities are high - I would stay away from white pine. As swan said - Norway spruce grow slower - but unfortunatley, deer eat them too. My best luck has been with virginia pine and austrian pine. Deer seem to really stay away from teh austrian pine. Also cedars - they don't seem to munch them at my place too bad - but they love to rub them!

If you find a good outlet for austrian pine let us know - I have had problems finding them. get most of my trees mail order from the Va dept of forestry -they will ship them anywhere, and their trees rock (except for the fact that deer love them).

MonroeYou gonna try that latex paint water dip trick ?

[Big H]

You gonna try that latex paint water dip trick ?


I am.

[Milo]

I am.
I try to call the forrestor guy that told me about it so I can get the amount right. best thing we did was to plant other stuff for them to eat. lots of winter food helps.

[Big H]

How much of the tree do you dip in the paint? 6"? 3"?:confused:

[Milo]

How much of the tree do you dip in the paint? 6"? 3"?:confused:
seedlings just about 3"-6" would be fine. I find the deer only like the tops or candle wicks if you will. We only had problem the first 2 years. after that they stopped. we planted 6000 or so and we got I would say at least 3000. they are all in different stages and we have some oaks mixed in.

[stumphole]

Milo, What's the deal with the latex?

[Milo]

Milo, What's the deal with the latex?Thats a loaded gun stumpy:yikes::mischeif:


Latex makes the tree tops taste bitter to them..

[stumphole]

Thats a loaded gun stumpy:yikes::mischeif:


Latex makes the tree tops taste bitter to them..

Sorry...guess you're right....thanks for the info, do you water it down first?

[Milo]

Sorry...guess you're right....thanks for the info, do you water it down first?Yep...remind me to show you some cover trees you can plant and get quick results...

[stumphole]

Yep...remind me to show you some cover trees you can plant and get quick results...
Will do, I need for you to stop by and look at an area before I get the chain saw out....

[Milo]

Will do, I need for you to stop by and look at an area before I get the chain saw out....
Roger that! Do I need to bring my saw?

[stumphole]

That would make the job go twice as fast :bouncy:

[Big H]

Yep...remind me to show you some cover trees you can plant and get quick results...

Have you tried northern cedars, and if so, what were the results?

[Milo]

Have you tried northern cedars, and if so, what were the results?
no

[WRS77]

I am planting winbreaks along the edge of the property, and would like to put in thick cover in a few spots about the property, so what is the mix for the latex dip 50 - 50 or what????

[Monroe]

I have never tried the latex - have stapled index cards on the ends, used deerbgone, try to cover with bags - nothing makes it through the winter. Only thing that works is a circle of wire fence around the trees - though this is time consuming and costly. Got a picture of some covered in the latex? What is the mix? I will try anything.

[cjd3]

White Pines are nice but are really frail. Scotch Pines seem to do ok here in Ashtabula county. They seem to last about 80-100 years before they start to die off. ( we had hundreds planted around 1920) I am currently replanting w/ Blue spruce. They are slow to take off but after a few years they do great. ) My problem is the local bucks like to rub em over and kill em. (maby the state would give me a crop damage permit to harvest a few extra-lol) A plastic walmart attached to the tree seems to deter some. I was told that human hair from the barber would also deter but could affect hunting oppertunities.

[swantucky]

If you find a good outlet for austrian pine let us know - I have had problems finding them. get most of my trees mail order from the Va dept of forestry -they will ship them anywhere, and their trees rock (except for the fact that deer love them).

Monroe

Did you check with you county soil and water conservation district?? Ours offers Austrian pines and for big jobs they have a planter you can rent pretty cheap.

[Monroe]

Only ones that I could get from Monroe was pitch lobs - and they don't offer the best cover. I will try them again - just filled out there survey on equipment rentals - should have got me a few days ago with this question...

[Milo]

I am planting winbreaks along the edge of the property, and would like to put in thick cover in a few spots about the property, so what is the mix for the latex dip 50 - 50 or what????Well might i suggest this website..they are expensive in my opinion but you will get what you want very quickly.

http://www.advancedtree.com/tree_skyrise.htm

I am going to try some either this year or next to re-establish a fence line without having the expense of a fence...need to keep the locals at bay.

Latex paint mix.

Use interior paint..I think our guy said to use about 3/4 -1 gallon to approximately 3 gallons. that way you can carry a 5 gallon bucket around without splashing it down your boots. :D Dip the tops and plant. We have found the deer left the white pines alone after about year 3 or so. to reapply, get a pair of those felt gloves from TSC ( nasty looking green ones) put on a rubber glove underneath and dip your hand into the mixture and reapply to the tops.

[Buckmaster]

Suggestion---Try saving your onion and potato sacks. They're mesh and last a couple years. I have about 200 saved up and I'm trying next Spring. I'm 0-400 on past plantings. The deer eat them as soon as I plant them. My deer ratio is too high in Jefferson Co.

[Buckmaster]

Oh, I forgot to mention my local school district saves them for me.

[GMbuck]

We have had pretty good luck with Jack pines purchased from a place called Cold Stream Farm in MI. They grow fast and deer don't really browse them, but they are not much to look at and will never be timber. We have scotch, white and austrian as well. The austrian seem to thrive also. No matter the pine, the deer seem to love rubbing them. It looks like a scotch branch stuck in this guys antlers.

http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii201/GMbuck/DSC_0064.jpg

[Buckmaster]

My Portage Co. extension office sent me a flyer. They are taking preorders on trees now. The Austrian and Eastern White pines are 10 for $6. Gobbler Oaks are 5 for $7.

[fork horn]

WRS77,

Up here in Michigan we have way to many deer..:yikes: So I came up with away to solve the problem of deer eating and rubbing newly planted trees.. About 10 years ago I started planting land scape grasses.?? You know the big bushy tall stuff you see growing in peoples yards in flower beds. Just go to your local land scape shop.. it does not matter what ones you buy.. just look at the lable in the little pots if it gets 3ft. wide or more and at least 4ft tall or more buy it.. Plant it just like you would plant trees.. deer will not eat it and they will not rub them.. problem solved...;)

Deer will use them just like like they where trees and whats more they are full growen in a year or two.. not 5 -10 like pines.. If you want to mix some pines in with them all the better I have planted them both ways and both work well..

I hope this helps a little..

Tom Mesnard - T.L.M.

[Bake]

I have planted 5000 white pines and 2000 loblollys. Both have done well. I live in SE Ohio. I did'nt mow around them and the deer did'nt bother them. The pines don't mind the weeds and once they get their leader above them they really take off. They will have to be thinned as they do better if they have plenty of room. That will also preserve the cover. Now they have a hybrid called pitlolly. It is drought and heat tolerant. It makes a nice log and grows fast like the loblolly. With global warming coming that is a good option.

[WRS77]

THanks I was wondering if the weeds growing up around them would help or hinder the plants, I have noticed that they haven't been chewed on this year, at least the one I let hide in the weeds. The few I put in the side yard that I do mow around have been chewed on so looks like there is some advantage to hiding them in the weeds....

[Lance]

We've had a heck of a time getting pines to survive. The deer browse the heck out of them and have tried several types. I think we've planted close to 3000 now and unless we get some survivors out of this year's batch we've got about 5 to show for it. :( I planted 5 Douglas firs that were almost 3' high that I was hoping I could make into christmas trees and deer turned them into giant candy canes last March and strippped them clean. branches and all!

I buy a lot of my trees/bushes for grouse cover through Cold stream and have had pretty decent survival rates. Just make sure you use a root dip when you plant stuff.

[Bake]

I carry them around in a 5 gallon bucket with water. After I get the roots in I dump a cup of water in with them. When I close the hole it makes a squishy mud that gets the roots settled in. It seems to give me a good survival rate. I go around in the early spring just before green up with pruning shears and trim woodies away and stomp the weeds away. I planted some spruces in my yard and mowed around them and they got munched. The weeds are also good for all other kinds of wildlife.

[bishs]

Red and White pine loose their limbs with age and in time will offer no cover. White pines planted in the open will hold their limbs longer. White pines are also a preffered deer browse species

Spruce hold their limbs to the ground their entire life and their branches grow tightly into each other. Spruce is a non-browse species and is considered starvation food. When deer densities are too high along with tough winters they may get browsed. Norway spruce is the fastest growing spruce. They don't grow much the first 5-6 years then grow 2 foot or more a year in height. They will pass most trees planted with them in 10 years.

Seedling planting tips:
Moisten roots when they arrive.

Trim lengthy roots

Carry a 15 minute supply of trees in a 5 gallon bucket.

Never lay them out or expose them to sun and wind even for a minute. The tiny root ends will dry out and die. Then you will wonder why your tree is dead in August.

Dig hole deep enough to shove tree in deep, then pull up to proper planting depth. This prevents J Roots from killling the tree.

Pulling the seedlings out of a bucket of water and planting imediately is some thing that people do, but I would never advise it. The tiny roots are packed with mulch, this holds moisture for the roots. Roots can dry out very fast if much is washed off. Keep the mulch damp and your in good shape. I often lay a wet towel on boxes of seedlings while I am planting the out of the bucket.

Plant moisture loving species like Silky or Red Osier dogwood deeper than the original soil line, unless your planting in a wet area. Plant other species at original soil line.

When planting species that prefer well drained soil in wet areas, plant seedling on any small rise in the ground.

Plant trees early in the spring.

Cloudy days are best for planting, sunny windy days are the worst days.

Now this is where most people go wrong. They think they are done!
Lack of moisture is the number one reason for losing trees. After planting over 16,000 trees and shrubs every year since 94, I have never had greater than a 20% loss or tree. And that occurred one time, after a severe drought. The trees that year all had a 3' square of black plastic on them, with a large slit in the middle for the trees. Its more work up front, but saves time and trees in the long run.

I don't mow around them. Mowing kills off broadleaf and encourages grass to grow around your tree. Sodded grass is the worst situation you can have for a seedling. Mowing also kills other trees and shrubs that are going to come up naturally in the area. Some of my areas have more trees and shrubs growing naturally than the planed speces. My land has thousands of Oak, Willow, dogwood, ash, cottonwood, elderberry, autumn Olive naturally.

For some reason, many guys go through all kinds of effort to keep their foodplots weed free, but not their seedlings. Weed competition will suck the nutrients, moisture and shade out your seedling. How well would your corn, soys or clover grow infested with weeds?

The trees that don't get plastic, get sprayed two-three times a year, for the first few years. I hold a 10" pipe over them and use a back pack sprayer. The last few years all my serious planting is done. I wil plant 100-200 trees a year. I usually just stick them in the ground and let them go. I see the difference, I lose quite a few, but thats expected. When the trees are too large for the tube, I spray roundup in the morning when their is no wind, and make two passes on each side of the tree. I spray so some weeds will grow around the seedling. I am sure some roundup gets on a few of them, but at this rate its not deadly to the tree. Some spray roundup over top of Spruce before their budded out in the spring and even when their needles harden up later in the summer. But I have never tried it.

When your spraying around prefered browse species, your going to create an open ring around your tree. Deer will find them easily. Better have them protected from browsing if deer numbers are high.

I have sandy loam soil, very easy planting conditions. When I am planting in "weed free" soil; I used to plant 1,000 trees a day. I don't work that hard anymore. My soil dries out easily in the summer. The light ground allows the roots to go deep for moisture. Clay grounds hold much more water during dry spells, but once it dries down far enough, some of these trees have trouble with their roots getting deep enough through the hard ground.

For pictures of habitats I have created, go to:
whitetaillandscapes.com