Nocturnal Bucks?

[CritterGitter]

Ok, so some of the other threads got me thinking we may need a new thread topic. I have re-read some of the "How to Kill a big buck thread" and then there is BH1023's thread on "Looking for Answers" and I thought this might make for a good discussion.

BH1023 like's to reference deer biology and/or deer management. That's all fine and dandy, but I dont' think it has much to do with harvesting a 150" buck. Now, understand that harvesting such a buck is a life-long dream of mine which to date has gone unfulfilled. I know I have hit 2 that might have taped out, but unfortunately they went unrecovered. One was on a gold mine of private property that had nobody else hunting it at all that bow season. The other was a bump and dump(only I messed up this part) that went sour with a poor hit. The private land buck on a low guesstimate was at minimum a 140" buck. The public land buck was HUGE with a capital H! That sucker was wide, tall, heavy and came with 12" brows so I know he was pushing booner scale. I also had an encounter with a different Huge private land buck last year that may have taped out to the 150" mark. So, while I haven't gotten one I sure have come close. I have spent countless hours working my tail off to put myself in the right position and I feel I have gained a little insight through these experiences.

I truly believe to harvest such an animal you need 3 things. 1. You need to hunt a property or piece of public land that has one living there. Simple but a very true statement. 2. You need to control or eliminate all human intrusion so that the buck might feel comfortable enough to walk out during daylight. 3. You may need to bump him out of his sactuary and shoot him then, or learn his escape route so you can duplicate the bump another time.

We should spend more time discussing the behaviour characteristics of a b & c class buck. Each and every buck has a different demeanor. Some are aggresive and some are relatively passive. Generally there will be one alpha(the leader among the bucks within a general area) and then there will be omega bucks(mature but subordinate to the alpha). I don't think all Alpha's run around head/rack held high fearing nothing all hours of the day. Quite different actually. I think often these bucks have either been shot at as a 1.5, 2.5 or 3.5 yr old and have become even more wary and cagy. They find a sactuary and prefer to stay in it unless they must vacate. A b&C class buck does not "need" to feed, rut, chase, cruise or even drink during daylight hours. They can survive by doing all of this at night. I think this is largely why most of them are shot during gun law.

As a bowhunter you are up against it to get that b&c class buck to offer you a shot during shooting light. I believe Oldhat had one figured and couldnt get him to offer during shooting light. I know Andy Gehle had one figured out last year and could not get him to offer a shot during shooting light. We are all aware of BH1023 struggles with Deuce. You could have the best set-up in the world and may see lots of p&y class bucks throughout bow season, but never see that b&c. They do things differently. They don't "need" to run around during daylight. They also don't tolerate human intrusion into their favorite sactuary to often. If you bump him once you better figure his escape route, because often after the 2nd time, he won't come back. He doesn't have to. His sniffer is good enough to find a sactuary on ground that has 0.00 molecules of human scent and then that is where he will hole up(likely on some anit hunters back 40).

Just a little something for everyone to kick around, discuss, banter about, hi-jack or whatever.

Kyle

[coonskinner]

again you will see big bucks more during hunting hours as you get closer to the peak of the rut...and it continues as the rut winds down...nov. 16th seems like a magic day...i got my 2 biggest on that day and i seen a couple here taken then...i feel nov. 16th most gen. is on the winding down side of peak day during the rut...so the 8th to the 16th approx...give or take a few days either way...non nocturnal big boys at its best...and on the national forest where all is natural during archery season this especially holds true...but i think in general it holds true anywhere...i did see my big boy very early this year...i believe it was the weekend before deer camp(wn) or the first day of deer camp...it was about 3 pm i believe and he was looking for doe...so soon as those ANTLERS get hard...they will be out during the daylight hours...love is in the air...hunt all day...less travelin thru your areas and the longer youre there the better chance when he does come youll be there...get the most comfy stand/blind ou can find...D

[bowhunter1023]

I have no experience with B&C class bucks. In fact, I can only think of one, maybe two that I have ever seen. One was a main-framed 10 with a 8-9" drop that I saw four years ago across from my uncles in August. As far as I know, that deer died of old age. And there were several guys hunting him. The other was a deer I saw in Ravenna when I was knocking on doors the year I lived in Kent. I figure he would have went in the 180's as a typical 6x6.

While I don't have experience with that caliber of deer, I have seen several mature deer at least 3.5, and at least 125" in the last four years. I average at least two, or three bucks like this a year on camera, and usually see one or two. This year I have not had the luck. I believe I can contribute that to the corn, and to nocturnal behavior.

Over the last four years, I have gotten pictures of 8 bucks that I consider shooters ranging from 3.5 to 5.5, and from 125"-145". Of those 8, 5 were caught on scrapes. The other three were on trails from bed to feed. All were after dark. I have yet to capture a mature buck on his feet during daylight hours in-season on my cameras despite running two cameras and capturing over 1,000 in-season pictures.

My big buck from 2004 was completely nocturnal. I killed him by sneaking in on his bedding area and allowing my scent to get him to try and get out the back door. Unfortunately for him, I could cover the back door from my position. That buck was 5.5 years old and no one had ever seen him during daylight hours. He would bed in a willow thicket across the road from my house. At night he would cross the road and run does in our woods.

In 2001, I watch a 140” 10 that I believe is the same deer my Dad shot in 2004, a half dozen times. He was always on his feet during the day, but never in the same area. I believe certain bucks intentionally do not follow a partner. I believe they have had some experience in their lives that leads them not to follow a set pattern. This buck would bed in one holler on day, on the ridge the next, and then come from a ravine that took him nearly one mile away from his normal route.

Honestly, I doubt I will ever know what I am doing. Whenever I think I have something figured out, I get schooled. Certain things are a given and Kyle outlined them. Beyond that, I don’t believe there is much we can do other than be in the right place at the right time.

[CritterGitter]

In 2001, I watch a 140” 10 that I believe is the same deer my Dad shot in 2004, a half dozen times. He was always on his feet during the day, but never in the same area. I believe certain bucks intentionally do not follow a partner. I believe they have had some experience in their lives that leads them not to follow a set pattern. This buck would bed in one holler on day, on the ridge the next, and then come from a ravine that took him nearly one mile away from his normal route.


The buck I referenced from last year is this way. He beds in the river bottom one day, on Craft's farm the next day, behind the resevoir the 3rd day and once and a while he'll stay up north at Walkers farm(they dont hunt but will occasionally walk their woods during gun law to bump deer out for the neighbors). I know for a fact that this buck has been shot at twice in 2005, once in 2006 and then again today. My buddy missed him on a dead run at 60 yards. He got him to stop twice, but both times the buck stopped it was behind trees and there was no shot. They believe a doe in this woods is in heat, so they are hoping for another opportunity at him. This buck is seen during daylight hours every once in awhile during bow season. However, he is nearly impossible to pattern and has a very large home range.

Kyle

[bakerboy]

According to my four cameras the bucks are not even nocturnal......they're plain gone. This happened before gun season. They began showing up late at night late in Oct. Then it was earlier and earlier and finally 5:00 pm but only occasionally. The very largest 150" 10 point only showed himself once, and this was for an hour on the 14 th of Nov. He fed continuously from 4 till 5. I'm guessing he was filling his tank after a long campaign. Havn't seen anything with antlers since the 14 th.

[Eric45653]

You know, I read all the posts thus far, and there is alot to ponder. Honestly thou, i believe it still comes down to luck. I have planted food plots, placed salt licks, scouted, scouted, and scouted more. After doing all of this, in my mind I thought that I would have a good advantage only to come up empty handed. The nine point i got in 2004 (in my avator) just happened to mozzy over within range. This buck was strickly luck. Sometimes I feel as though I have a better chance driving fast and creaming one with my Jeep.

Its kindda like playing craps; you hold the dice in your hands thinking that you have some sort of control over the outcome. Maybe a little...but its still luck how the dice land.

Allthough, the one thing that has always held true for me was; the more hunters that are out in the woods, stirring things up, the better season i always had. Go figure.

[deerhunt45]

We all agree, most of the mature bucks we seek can be hard or nearly impossible to pattern given a limited amount of time some of us have to scout them. Even with considerable time and effort they are an elusive quarry and sometimes considerable is not enough. That's why we don't see that many "booners" harvested. It's not because they are not out there! Now add in the fact some of these bucks have lived through all these hunting seasons and have been shot at and pressured. You have a tough nut to crack.

I will also agree, luck always plays a part in getting a chance at that deer of a lifetime. May be a small part, may be a large part depending on how you look at it; but it's there. Be in the right place at the right time and as someone else mentioned, you could benefit from someone changing that buck's travel and you get the "chance".

[coonskinner]

We all agree, most of the mature bucks we seek can be hard or nearly impossible to pattern given a limited amount of time some of us have to scout them. Even with considerable time and effort they are an elusive quarry and sometimes considerable is not enough. That's why we don't see that many "booners" harvested. It's not because they are not out there! Now add in the fact some of these bucks have lived through all these hunting seasons and have been shot at and pressured. You have a tough nut to crack.

I will also agree, luck always plays a part in getting a chance at that deer of a lifetime. May be a small part, may be a large part depending on how you look at it; but it's there. Be in the right place at the right time and as someone else mentioned, you could benefit from someone changing that buck's travel and you get the "chance".
you need a good place and a lot of time...i used to live in chauncey...i hunted everyday...if i was on a bigboy sometimes i had him within 20 yds. several times at different places before nailing him...and i usually saw several really nice bucks,most for the first time...serious whitetail hunters do it for a living and are sucessful because they are in good places(states) and hunt nearly every day...and this is xactly what they will tell the aspiring trophy hunter...spend all the time you can in the woods...and location location location...:dizzy:

[OLDHAT]

Public or Private, I persoanlly think that on just about any property you step on, you have a chance of taking a 150" deer in Ohio. I hate to say, but there are a lot of 150"..not as comparable with does and others, but I think that every hunter here stands a chance of taking a 150" no matter where they hunt, or should I say can potentially at least see one from the stand at least 1 time per year. This year I seen 3 different deer that would go 150 and another 140" deer.

A 10pt if a good deer (good tine lenght) is pusing 150" in a lot of instances. So with all that said:

I had this discussion with "Tip" from here today over the phone about the bucks and where they "went" over the last week or so. We have come to the conclusion that they are in those spots that you would never consider, as in right outside the farmers door, you know that spot you've never hunted, sure it may be only an acre or so off woods, but how much pressure does that deer get right there?

I use Tip as a reference a lot one here as he is the only "like minded" person as I am that can actually share a hunting area with, so with that said here is what I'll say:

He will hunt in some of the strangest places. Strange in a sense that it may only be 100 yards away from someone's house, Hell, Maybe even 50 yards off a rd, but he sees good quality deer and taged one this year that was a good one, this is hard for me to do as I don't have a lot of confidence when a farmer can cmome out and ask me if I'd like a warm cup of cofee while I'm sitting there.

I differ from him because he sometimes hate how I will roll right on the edge of a bedding area to hunt, instead of backing off it by a 100 yards or so.

so when it comes to tactics, I would also liek to think that you could take one of these deer anywhere, and how can you be "everywhere"?

I also think it takes 2 guys max on a piece of property (no more than 2 together on say 100-200 acres), the rest simply turns into un-needed pressure.

Booner:

Yeah, for all of you that do not know, I knew of 2 Booners in my area (pretty big claim), but hey, I have no need to "****" you guys. I likewise know of 3 other deer in here that would go 150". So again this is on 600 acres, but these deer have been on the property at least once since August (between game cam photos and actually seeing them is how I arrived at 5 deer at 150+).
The only odd thing is that I besides for the one Tip took this year, I did not see a single buck that would go between 120"-140".

A a lot of us mess it up, I blew a shot on a basic 10pt this year on the 26th or 27th of November. I could have slung an arrow at another one at 45 yards but decided against it.

I will also make this statement and this is the 1st year I've looked at it and thought about it, but who is to say that that "booner" is a dominant buck? Just because he is packing the "biggest" rack doesn't to me mean hs is the "stud" in the area. He could be getting his butt kicked by a 3.5 year 8 pt!

Also on these types of bucks I think you need some well defined funnel areas. Funnel areas in a sense that he must come through "here" and no other options (maybe a field on both sides of a small choked down piece of woods to offer protection.

The bucks are just as good on public as they are private, but typically on public you are dealing with "massive" acres of standing property and the deer could walk through it anywhere. Private tends to have more funnels as there may be a field, tiber cut in some areas, more "grass land", etc to help funnel deer.

That is some of my experiences/thoughts, take what you want from them, but these things go through my head all the time. I do think that you need to hunt all the time as mentioned by Coonie.

Oldhat