ODNR Game Warden Trespassing???

[Eric45653]

Hi all. I am new to this forum and i hope im welcomed. I am a boater, and i hunt on my own property behind my house (my back yard). I have had my fair share of the ODNR, and I am not ashamed to say that they are all NAZI's. ODNR law enforcement officers do not use their discresion, and write the ticket at all costs.

My question for discussion is; If i am hunting in my back yard, can ODNR enter on my property and hassle me without 1.Consent 2. Warrant 3. Exigent Circumstances????

ODNR Watercraft have gotten sooo bad on the Ohio River, they are chasing everyone off the river and people are afraid to take their boats out.

Thanks Eric

I

[coonskinner]

yes they can and if youre bending the regs you deserve a ticket...:mischeif:

[M.Magis]

It doesn't seem you want a discussion at all, you want people to agree with you. To answer your "question", define exigent circumstances. Their definition may differ from yours. It seems that more often than not, people who dislike authority the most are the ones afraid of (and deserve to) getting caught.

[Eric45653]

Ok.. It seems i got off on the wrong foot......Sorry!!! I am not afraid of authority at all, nor do i bend the regs at all (or at least try not to).

After re-reading my original post....it does seem a little one sided, and i have gracefully steped down from my "soap box"

Exigent circumstances is a situation when ones human life or safety is at risk, and an officer has reasone to believe so, and the timing does not allow for consent/warrant.

The main reason that i am asking is that my father-in-law says that they are allowed to do that...and to me...it dosent seem right, because no other peace officer has that power without 1,2,3 above (other than a bail bondsman). I guess im curious.

[OHBOW76]

If you are doing something illegal or the warden has reasonable cause to believe you are then he/she has every right to enter your property. It would be hard to prove that they dont have reasonable cause, becuase all they have to say is they recieved an anonymous tip via the poacher hotline, or a complaint of a tresspasser. To be honest with you if a warden showed up on my property 1) I would attempt to assist him/her by every means possible (if I am not doing anything wrong why would I care), and 2) It would tip me off that either I have a very attentive neighbor who is looking at for my property, or the wardens are out and about doing their jobs (a good thing). Now if a warden walked underneath my tresstand every tiem I was in it hunting then I would consider it harrassment and would contact his/her supervisor and the main office in Columbus to report it.

In regards to the Ohio river, I have no sympathy. If you are out there abiding by the law, you have nothing to worry about. From what I hear you have a lot of rich daredevils on the river during the weekends operating boats while intoxicated with no regard for others safety. Let them write more citations is what I say.

In regards to citatations the more they write the more the word gets out and the more people think twice before committing violations.

[lacure]

By no means am I an expert, but I do believe reading somewhere that game wardens are the only law enforcement group that does not need a search warrant of any kind...and I agree with this.

[coonskinner]

By no means am I an expert, but I do believe reading somewhere that game wardens are the only law enforcement group that does not need a search warrant of any kind...and I agree with this.

they can come on your place whenever they want...and if they do...they have a reason...maybe your buddy or neighbor told them something that they decided to check into...funny we have others complaining that they never follow up on tips...damned if they do...damned if they dont...:mischeif:

[swantucky]

By no means am I an expert, but I do believe reading somewhere that game wardens are the only law enforcement group that does not need a search warrant of any kind...and I agree with this.

That is the same information I remember seeing somewhere but I cannot remember where.

[M.Magis]

It's commonly believed that game wardens have different (more) authority than other law enforcement officials, but they do NOT. They fall under the same Constitution that every one else falls under. They just don't remember that sometimes, and not enough people call them on it.

[OHBOW76]

M.MAGIS, Actually there is a difference, just not sure if it applies in Ohio. I know in PA that Game Wardens have almost the same law enforcement powers, but CAN NOT do anything in regards to tresspassing (only a police offcier, or sheriff can handle that), and on the same token a police offcier can not enforce fish and Game Laws.

[M.Magis]

Yes, your right, I worded that wrong. What I meant was that they are not exempt from needing a warrant for a search.

[Steve]

I think most in any state DNR do the best job they can with very limited resources and I hope this thread doesn't turn into a DNR bashing thread.

[BuckSlayer]

I have met the game warden for our county and I think he is a really nice guy who is doing the best he can for as little help he has.

[So. Ohio Outfitters]

I've met the officers in several of the counties down here quite a few times.....usually when they see me out they will stop to just chat, and to see how things are going....Poaching is definitely a problem, and particuliarly spotlighting....As buckslayer brought out, they have a lot of territory to cover and not enough guys...but from what I've seen, if you don't have anything to hide and you have a clear concious and your doing everything by the book...everything will be a o.k...their good guys, and trying to help us, not hurt us...

[coonskinner]

I've met the officers in several of the counties down here quite a few times.....usually when they see me out they will stop to just chat, and to see how things are going....Poaching is definitely a problem, and particuliarly spotlighting....As buckslayer brought out, they have a lot of territory to cover and not enough guys...but from what I've seen, if you don't have anything to hide and you have a clear concious and your doing everything by the book...everything will be a o.k...their good guys, and trying to help us, not hurt us...

i agree with this completely,when i hear people badmouthing the wardens i always am suspect of that person...prolly at least in half of these posts the warden was prolly only doing the job we xpect of them to do...my encounters have always been pleasant and usually the wardens give me a tip on a nice buck...:D

[Eric45653]

I've met the officers in several of the counties down here quite a few times.....usually when they see me out they will stop to just chat, and to see how things are going....Poaching is definitely a problem, and particuliarly spotlighting....As buckslayer brought out, they have a lot of territory to cover and not enough guys...but from what I've seen, if you don't have anything to hide and you have a clear concious and your doing everything by the book...everything will be a o.k...their good guys, and trying to help us, not hurt us...

Poaching is a BIG PROBLEM!! I found a doe lying in drainage ditch accross the road from my land just last January. It was still somewhat alive and i had to put her down. It appeared to have gotten hit by a car. Couple days later, i was cruising up one of my logging trails and discovered a clump of fur. I concluded that she was shot on my land, ran out and got hit.

I know of two of two people who are poachers. I always let them know how i feel about it when the subject comes up. And I informed them that if i hear that they are poaching when the does are nursing thier fawns, they will know who turned them in! (they dont live to far from you SO Outfitters)

Wildlife officers are few and far between down here. I see one parked on the entrance of one of my access roads sometimes very early in the morning, listing for illegal hunting activity/doing paperwork. They have my consent, even though they never asked for it.

I hunt without a license, and i make my own deer tags. I have never had a problem with wildlife officers.

My beef was with watercraft, and i made the mistake of lumping them all together and voicing my oppinion.

So the question is; regardless if "you dont have anything to hide and you have a clear conscience, and you are doing everything by the book...everything will be o.k...their good guys, and trying to help us, not hurt us", are they exempt from the 4th ammendment?

[OHBOW76]

Eric here is your answer to your question......

Even in the law enforcement context, the State may interfere with an individual's Fourth Amendment interests with less than probable cause and without a warrant if the intrusion is only minimal and is justified by law enforcement purposes. E.g., Michigan State Police Dept v. Sitz, 496 U.S. 444, 450 ('90); Terry v. Ohio, 392 U.S. 1, 20 ('68).

There you go so any law enforcement officer does not need a warrant as long as the intrusion is minimal, backed by probable cause, and justifiable.

So probable cause = felt or heard poaching or game violations were being broken

minimal = on your land but not in your house

justified by law enforcement purposes (probable cause) = heard a gun shot, saw or heard reports of suspicious activity.

Hope that clears things up.

[Eric45653]

Eric here is your answer to your question......

Even in the law enforcement context, the State may interfere with an individual's Fourth Amendment interests with less than probable cause and without a warrant if the intrusion is only minimal and is justified by law enforcement purposes. E.g., Michigan State Police Dept v. Sitz, 496 U.S. 444, 450 ('90); Terry v. Ohio, 392 U.S. 1, 20 ('68).

There you go so any law enforcement officer does not need a warrant as long as the intrusion is minimal, backed by probable cause, and justifiable.

So probable cause = felt or heard poaching or game violations were being broken

minimal = on your land but not in your house

justified by law enforcement purposes (probable cause) = heard a gun shot, saw or heard reports of suspicious activity.

Hope that clears things up.

Perfect!!!! Thats just what i was looking for.

Allthough your definition of probable cause sounds more like "resonable suspicion", which still would be less then probable cause. I am satisfied. Thanks

[ohiosam]

The Game Warden can come on private property without a warrant. He can not search a building or vehical without a warrant, permission or probable cause.

Most Game Wardens are good guys that aren't out to screw you. However there are a few that are exceptions to the rule. Kinda like the speed trap where tickets are handed out for going 1 mph over the limit.

[Eric45653]

Eric here is your answer to your question......

Even in the law enforcement context, the State may interfere with an individual's Fourth Amendment interests with less than probable cause and without a warrant if the intrusion is only minimal and is justified by law enforcement purposes. E.g., Michigan State Police Dept v. Sitz, 496 U.S. 444, 450 ('90); Terry v. Ohio, 392 U.S. 1, 20 ('68).

There you go so any law enforcement officer does not need a warrant as long as the intrusion is minimal, backed by probable cause, and justifiable.

So probable cause = felt or heard poaching or game violations were being broken

minimal = on your land but not in your house

justified by law enforcement purposes (probable cause) = heard a gun shot, saw or heard reports of suspicious activity.

Hope that clears things up.

Well, I have researched the two stare decisis that you cited. The Michigan case discusses the constitutionality of sobrioty check points. If a peace officer stops your vehicle without probable cause at a check point, is this concidered a 4th amendment siezure? The court ruled no because the vehicle was on a public road, and the intrusion was minimal (officer just asked the driver a question).

The Terry v. Ohio case deals solely with officers safety. An officer has the authority to "pat down" a person for the possession of weapons for his own safety, but not search a person unless incident to arrest. The court made this clear

Both of these cases occured on public property.

So "there you go" OHBOW76, OHIOSAM, as much as you all would like believe that Wildlife officers are exempt, i am no where near convinced.

I agree with M.Magis

This topic is still open for descussion.

[deerhunt45]

The law is the law, but and there's always a but, interpretations can and do vary... With that, no game officer has powers outside of the law... as it should be.

[coonskinner]

ok i've done this before...my brother in law was cited and fined for not having written permission on his brothers property...in perry county by larry toki...the warden was suspicious of trespassers on the property so he entered it on his own and legally....well he happened up on my brother in law as he chased a few lawbreakers...he asked my brother in law if he knew them and suspected he did and was with them which wasnt the case...my brother in law never seen the trespassers...well he finally convinced the warden he was hunting on his brothers place...the warden now had confiscated his gun and written a ticket to my brother in law and said he'd get the gun back when he paid the fine...finally my brother in law talked him to going to the house hoping to straighten things out...when they got to the house his brother,the landowner was on the porch...he told the warden that his brother was a care keeper on the property and he didnt need permission to hunt...the warden said his name had to be on the deed or something to that effect...anyway the warden saw the landowners shotgun and confiscated it momentarily...unloaded it and gave it back...i guess this is a legal safety precaution for officers...so my brother in law paid his fine,got his gun back and that was that...only doing his job...why because the owner complained about trespassers...you see the land owner just bought the land...his neighbors who hunted it for years refused to acknowlege another person bought it...and all they had to do was ask to hunt and he'd written them permission...he's an easy guy to get along with...:D

[Eric45653]

ok i've done this before...my brother in law was cited and fined for not having written permission on his brothers property...in perry county by larry toki...the warden was suspicious of trespassers on the property so he entered it on his own and legally....well he happened up on my brother in law as he chased a few lawbreakers...he asked my brother in law if he knew them and suspected he did and was with them which wasnt the case...my brother in law never seen the trespassers...well he finally convinced the warden he was hunting on his brothers place...the warden now had confiscated his gun and written a ticket to my brother in law and said he'd get the gun back when he paid the fine...finally my brother in law talked him to going to the house hoping to straighten things out...when they got to the house his brother,the landowner was on the porch...he told the warden that his brother was a care keeper on the property and he didnt need permission to hunt...the warden said his name had to be on the deed or something to that effect...anyway the warden saw the landowners shotgun and confiscated it momentarily...unloaded it and gave it back...i guess this is a legal safety precaution for officers...so my brother in law paid his fine,got his gun back and that was that...only doing his job...why because the owner complained about trespassers...you see the land owner just bought the land...his neighbors who hunted it for years refused to acknowlege another person bought it...and all they had to do was ask to hunt and he'd written them permission...he's an easy guy to get along with...:D

Well Coonskinner, the warden was o.k because the landowner complained about trespassers. This gave the warden a "presumption of consent" to enter the property. As far as your brother-in-law, the regs are that you have to have written permission unless you own the land, or the land is public domain...periiod. If the officer already wrote the ticket...there is no taking it back. Citations are numbered, and are strickly accounted for. You have to plead your case before he/she starts writting. You are correct, the officer only unloaded the landowners shotgun and gave it back. This was purely a safety measure that protects the officer, and you as well (remember, wardens carry guns too).

[ohiosam]

Police and game wardens can come on property with out permission or warrants. They can't enter enclosed buildings, or vehicals, or search your person. Show me a court case that says a law inforcement office can not set foot on private property.

However many will try to imtimidate you into submitting to these searches. Once you give them permission any thing they find you are accountable for. For those that say if you aren't doing anything wrong you have nothing to worry about. I'll guarentee you are violating some law weather you realize it or not.

[Eric45653]

I FOUND IT!!!

OHIO REVISED CODE 1531.13
".....Any regularly employed salaried wildlife officer may enter any private lands or waters if the wildlife officer has good cause to believe and does believe that a law is being violated."

[Fish-n-Fool]

I've been checked a handful of times over the years and never had any problems with gamewardens. Once they figure out you are abiding by the laws they usually talk hunting/fishing for a few minutes and wished me good luck.

They definately can come onto private property anytime they suspect something is going on if the land owner has contacted them or not. One time during Monday of gun season I had a stand set up on a wooded creek way off the road. I was visible from the road since I was blazed out (orange) in a full body suit. Around 10am the warden drove his truck right across the field (600-700 yards) right underneath my stand. The ground was not completely frozen and this landowner is VERY PICKY ABOUT DRIVING ON HIS PROPERTY!!!:yikes: Warden ordered me out of my stand, checked my gun (unloaded it also), then checked my permission which I had written permission on me.

I told him I was not happy about him ruining my hunt and the landowner would be pissed about him driving across the field. I had also made the point that I had been hunting the property for 10 years (bow and gun) and my truck is always parked up there - duh!!!!! He did apologize about the hunt, but brushed off the ruts he made:dizzy: I called the farmer asap and told him what had happened because no way did I want him to think I drove my truck back there. He was upset, but he didn't even bother calling to complain - said it wouldn't matter anyway and it was already done.

Other than that, never had a bad experience and during gun season things are crazy - but I was still mad at him.

[Eric45653]

Well, at least he apologized. Things are crazy during gun season. I have 7 german shepards, and they all get "blazed" during that week.

[OHBOW76]

Eric,

Looks like when all was said and done Ohiosam and I were right, and thats what were trying to tell you this whole time.:whistle:

[M.Magis]

I think we were all saying the same thing, but I'm not sure he understood what we were saying.

[stumphole]

Eric I thought the Ohio River was patrolled by KY??

[XX78]

But can a land owner ask them to leave the property, much like a person can (at least I believe can request police to leave and come back if they want with a warrant)?

[Eric45653]

Eric I thought the Ohio River was patrolled by KY??

No..Believe it or not, I have never seen a KY patrol vessel. Although i heard that they are sometimes out there. Normally its the County Sheriff, City Police, Coast Guard, and of course ODNR.

[Eric45653]

Eric,

Looks like when all was said and done Ohiosam and I were right, and thats what were trying to tell you this whole time.:whistle:

That was what everyone EVERYONE one was telling me. But what I was looking for was someone to show me, not just tell me. :banghead3:

I owe my father-in-law a dollar :bowdown:

[Eric45653]

But can a land owner ask them to leave the property, much like a person can (at least I believe can request police to leave and come back if they want with a warrant)?

An officer only needs "good cause to believe a law is being violated" to enter private land. Once that "good cause" has been shown to be invalid, at that point i think you can ask him/her to leave....BUT.... I think he will only apologize and leave anyway.

If you refuse to give consent to an officer to search your home or building, at that point, he would need a warrent.....BUT.... I know in other cases where an officer can detain you (to preserve evidence) while his office obtains a warrent.
(Ref: ORC 1531.13)

The only other question I have, which im reserching is...Is a wildlife Officer liable for damages to property when carring out their duties (i.e. driving over and destroying crops, wire fences, cutting locks etc.)

[OHBOW76]

Eric,

Your out of control with these questions brother!! LOL! This is ohiosportsman not a walk in office for legal advice. So what now did a ODNR officer drive throguh your yard and cause lawn damage, then get out knock down a fence, steal your treestand, and then burn your woods down. Every question you have leads into another.......holy smokes!:) :whistle: :D

[Eric45653]

Eric,

Your out of control with these questions brother!! LOL! This is ohiosportsman not a walk in office for legal advice. So what now did a ODNR officer drive throguh your yard and cause lawn damage, then get out knock down a fence, steal your treestand, and then burn your woods down. Every question you have leads into another.......holy smokes!:) :whistle: :D

LOL!!!!!!

O.K.....Ill Stop!!!!!:dizzy:

[ap0317ah]

I have a warden that lives down the road from me some folks think this pretty much sucks but i like him a lot. for TWO resons (1) i own 190 acers and a part of it runs up along side some of those **** hide away getaway cabins about 12 of them and the poeple that rent them tresspass on my land alot; get drunk, shoot guns all over the place and lord knows what else. one night while i was coon hunting i found three of them trying to spray paint my barn. when ever joe finds he trys to write then up or fine them. (2) in my mind poaching is a big deal and i goes unpunished all too often. and with a warden a round people are less likely to try it on my land.

poaching is one of the hardest crimes to prosecute because you almost have to catch them in the act so i am in compete soport of wardens following up on tips with or without a warent if that means they catch more poachers
remember poachers are not sportsmen they are criminals that rob us of our sport.
tom

[twins3b]

Sorry to tell you that you haven't got a prayer unless the officer that caused the damage comes forward and says that he had no probable cause and just damaged you property because he doesn't like you. I can't speak for Ohio, but in VA Game Wardens have the supreme power. The can search anything you own with or without a warrant. If someone call them and tells them I have a illegal beer in my freezer. They will come without warrant and either I will show them in the freezer or they will bust the lock off the door at my expense. The only thing I know that they can't do is take there vehicle onto a property that is posted and gated. They can still walk right around the gate and go anywhere they want including your home. I think it's a lot of power to give one officer, but poachers are very sneaky and word travels fast in rural america. By the time they got a warrant any evidence would be gone. I personally feel it has to be like that in order for them to be effective. I think that poaching is such a problem that all hunters are suspects. I can deal with a little "harassment" if it keeps the bad guys out of the woods and off the roads. I don't really want to see wardens walking through the woods checking lisence during the rut. But I'd love to see them set up check points and search every vehicle that comes buy from 7pm til midnight during the month of November. That would make a lot of poachers think twice and maybe save a couple of Booner for the guys that do it right. If you don't break any laws you will not get caught.

[M.Magis]

but in VA Game Wardens have the supreme power. The can search anything you own with or without a warrant
No, they can't. Again, they are bound by the same consitution/laws the rest of us are.

[loadbreak]

no freakin way...if im on my property hunting and doing nothing wrong and the game warden just happens to come strolling up i will politely but firmly ask him to leave.woluld you feel the same if the police came in your home to search your closets or the IRS going thru saftey deposit boxes,the police pulling you over just to see where your going and go thru your trunk?FREEDOM IS THE ABILITY OF A CIVILIAN TO LIVE THEIR LIVES WITHOUT GOVERNMENT INTERFERENCE!!!:tsk:

[twins3b]

M.Magis I'm sure you know your laws in Ohio but they are very different from state to state and in VA a Game Warden has the right to search private property without a warrant if his investigation leads him to believe there is evidence of a game violation on that property, which would include if a person he feels is credible tells him that you have an illegally taken deer in your freezer. Here is an article from PA which is basically the same right. So the constituion/laws the rest of them are bound by are not exactly the same as yours. Not really trying to be smart but your "No they can't." is actually a yes they can. I'll try get the VA law out of the book and post it if I get time.

http://www.thetimes-tribune.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=19057608&BRD=2185&PAG=461&dept_id=418218&rfi=6

[ohiosam]

M.Magis I'm sure you know your laws in Ohio but they are very different from state to state and in VA a Game Warden has the right to search private property without a warrant if his investigation leads him to believe there is evidence of a game violation on that property, which would include if a person he feels is credible tells him that you have an illegally taken deer in your freezer. Here is an article from PA which is basically the same right. So the constituion/laws the rest of them are bound by are not exactly the same as yours. Not really trying to be smart but your "No they can't." is actually a yes they can. I'll try get the VA law out of the book and post it if I get time.



US constitution trumps state law.
4th amendment
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

[M.Magis]

This is three months old, and I have no idea why it was borught back up. Regardless, your using ONE instance, which if really pressed, would be overturned. I'm not saying right or wrong, but they are NOT different than any other law enforcement.

[twins3b]

The ONE instance you are refering to is a Supreme Court Ruling it cannot be pressed any further. Do you understand how Government works? It was pressed and pushed and appealed to the highest court possible. Unless there is a new ruling buy the same Supreme Court or an amendment made to the PA constitution it is law. It cannot be overturned, only amended.

[CritterGitter]

I read the article in the posted link. It seems a little vague. They can search your property, but I don't think that means they can enter your domicile without your consent and search your premises without a warrant. Now, they might be able to come onto the land and search it. Then, suppose they find a bunch of gut piles and there is only one guy lives there. Hmmmm, maybe that gives them further probable cause. I don't know. Though, I doubt a game warden can just come barge into your house and bust open the freezer without a warrant. Seems little extreme to me.

Kyle

[ohiosam]

There is a huge difference between an officer walking on land and entering a home. Also this is a PA State Supreme Court ruling not Federal.

[M.Magis]

Okay twins3b, here's one that went to the US Court of Appeals and with which a precedent was set. This comes up quite often with taxidermists, and most are just as ignorant of the laws as you are (no offence meant by that). I was too for a long time. To save you a little reading, a search can NOT be conducted without a warrant or consent.

http://pgchallofshame.com/stories/page8.htm

[jackalope]

Last year I was walking back to my truck in the dark. About 50 yards from the truck, but 10 feet from me Byron Pierce jumped out, threw a Mag light on me, and yelled GAME OFFICER! After I checked my pants, he asked for my gun (to check for a plug) and my papers. I was clean. I made a comment about some missing / rusted signs stating no hunting before Oct 15… And I had seen people hunting there on Oct 1st.. Guess what.. this year, bright new shiny signs.

[twins3b]

Probable Cause is really what matters here and if a Virginia Game Warden has probable cause to believe that you have comitted a game violation and the evidence is in your home he will enter without a warrant if he feels he doesn't have time to get one and arrest you for obstruction if you try to stop him. The Commonwealth of Virginia gives a lot of power to the wardens. They have much more power than other state agencies. Although there are situations that any law enforcement officer can enter a home without a warrant. Your 100 percent right about the US Constitution trumping state laws sam, I've made that same statement on another issue. The 4th amendment protects against "unreasonable search and seizure". In VA it is up to the warden to decide what is reasonable when it comes to game violations. The law you are refering to is in PA in 1999. The PA Supreme Court Ruling was last month. I really didn't mean to bring PA into this, it was just the first acticle I found regarding the issue. I was talking about Virginia in my original post. I will do some more research tomorrow and see exactly how the law reads. And M.Magis I don't take offense to the word ignorant. It fits all of us from time to time. I'm just glad to have members here to have civil discussion with and hopefully in the end we will all come out of it a little less ignorant than when it began.

[ohiosam]

The 4th amendment protects against "unreasonable search and seizure". In VA it is up to the warden to decide what is reasonable when it comes to game violations.

Are game violations exempt from due process in VA? Ultimately a judge will decide it the officer's actions were reasonable.

I asked a lawyer about searches. His advise was to never give officer permission to search. If he insists on searching anyways, don't try to physically stop him let your lawyer deal with it if it goes that far.

The reason I'm debating this is because many people are under the impression the they have to submit to about anything the GW asks. GWs are quit happy to let people continue to believe this.

[deerhunter_matt]

Are game violations exempt from due process in VA? Ultimately a judge will decide it the officer's actions were reasonable.

I asked a lawyer about searches. His advise was to never give officer permission to search. If he insists on searching anyways, don't try to physically stop him let your lawyer deal with it if it goes that far.

The reason I'm debating this is because many people are under the impression the they have to submit to about anything the GW asks. GWs are quit happy to let people continue to believe this.

Correct me if I am wrong here, but I believe that if you refuse to grant permission for a search, doesn't that give the officer probable cause/reasonable suspicion? Something like "Why would he refuse if he wasn't hiding something?" Am I right in this thinking?

Fact of the matter is, if you aren't breaking any laws, what is the big deal? That's just how I feel.

[M.Magis]

Correct me if I am wrong here, but I believe that if you refuse to grant permission for a search, doesn't that give the officer probable cause/reasonable suspicion? Something like "Why would he refuse if he wasn't hiding something?" Am I right in this thinking?

No, that is not correct. They must get a warrant if you don't consent. You may be thinking of charging a driver with DUI if he refuses to take a breathalizer test.

[Eric45653]

I already researched AND argued this topic. This is the way it is. See below.


OHIO REVISED CODE 1531.13
".....Any regularly employed salaried wildlife officer may enter any private lands or waters if the wildlife officer has good cause to believe and does believe that a law is being violated."

An officer only needs "good cause to believe a law is being violated" to enter private land. Once that "good cause" has been shown to be invalid, at that point i think you can ask him/her to leave....BUT.... I think he will only apologize and leave anyway.

If you refuse to give consent to an officer to search your home or building, at that point, he would need a warrent.....BUT.... I know in other cases where an officer can detain you (to preserve evidence) while his office obtains a warrent.
(Ref: ORC 1531.13)

[TheCream]

Most Game Wardens are good guys that aren't out to screw you. However there are a few that are exceptions to the rule. Kinda like the speed trap where tickets are handed out for going 1 mph over the limit.

I completely agree with that statement. Have I ever been cited for any violations, no. Do I know folks who have, yes I do. The most common infraction from people I know is a shotgun that was not plugged, limiting it to 3 shots. In one of the cases, it was intentional. In the other, it was an honest mistake. Look, I agree, if you break the rules, even by accident, you should not be shocked at getting a citation.

HOWEVER, I think in a lot of instances, the attention paid to such minor infractions is excessive when there are far-bigger problems out there that need taken care of. With only a handful of wildlife officers per county, I think the efforts should be made first and foremost to deal with the most extreme violations first. I know you can't bust poaching rings every week, but let's face it, there are enough of them out there that it SHOULD be happening. Law-abiding hunters like me, and I'm sure you all agree, are fed up with animals being killed illegally and seemingly little being done about it.

A friend and I had this discussion last week, that folks who are just getting started in hunting and get fined for an honest mistake are probably going to question "Is it worth hunting?" It would be easy for a young or new hunter to buy a $15 antlerless archery/urban tag, legally hunt and arrow a doe after gun season, and mistakenly check the deer in with the invalid tag. What is going to happen to that hunter? He/she is probably going to get a nice fat citation in the mail. The more complicated tag systems become, the more frequent this problem will be. The hunter in the situation I described could legally hunt the animal, kill the animal, tag the animal, and check in the deer...but out of confusion could still get penalized. Hey, it's in the rules, that's right. But while you are busting an honest hunter for an honest mistake, there are folks out there with .22's and spotlights shooting deer right and left and getting away with it. :nono:

[ohiosam]

Fact of the matter is, if you aren't breaking any laws, what is the big deal? That's just how I feel.

You haven't read every law on the books, very few people have. Many are subject to interpretation. I'll guarantee even the most conscientious among us has violated some rule.

Here is an example that could get you in trouble. You travel to a state where they don't tag deer. You shoot a nice buck and bring it back home. It has no tag, a game warden decides to search your place and finds it. How do you prove where it came from? How much will the lawyer cost you?
An honest sportsman can be wrongly accused. There is an interesting story in the December issue of NAM about a case where the guy seems to be innocent.

["J"]

Let's face it. It's a lot easier to ticket the guy for an unplugged gun or walking out of the woods after dark and getting accused of hunting after hours. The GW's have a pretty hard job when it comes to hunting season trying to patrol a whole county is got to be a nightmare. But it takes a lot of hours and manpower to bust a poaching ring, all your ducks better be in order or the lawyers will get it thrown out on technicalities. So if any of them have been caught up in a year long investigation and then had it thrown out, who do you think they will be citing for a while? You guessed it the easier infractions, it's just human nature. Do I fault them for it, no I don't they're still doing their jobs, just not how some feel they should that's all. Let's face it we all make mistakes that's why we're called humans, there isn't a person out there that hasn't broken a law or two while hunting me included, because I don't care who you are the letter of the law is to detailed to follow 100% period no matter how hard we try.

[deerhunter_matt]

You haven't read every law on the books, very few people have. Many are subject to interpretation. I'll guarantee even the most conscientious among us has violated some rule.

Here is an example that could get you in trouble. You travel to a state where they don't tag deer. You shoot a nice buck and bring it back home. It has no tag, a game warden decides to search your place and finds it. How do you prove where it came from? How much will the lawyer cost you?
An honest sportsman can be wrongly accused. There is an interesting story in the December issue of NAM about a case where the guy seems to be innocent.

I would know that in my state it is illegal to possess un-tagged said parts of an animal which require tagging. I would be sure to contact whichever authorities necessary and be sure to fulfill the requirements to make my possession legal. The DNR puts out a publication which highlights and simplifies all applicable regulations for hunters. If you break the law, it's your fault for not knowing. So, like I said, if you aren't breaking the law you have nothing to worry about. If you don't know that you are breaking the law, it's your own fault. Ignorance is no excuse. Every hunter has the responsibility of knowing all applicable local, state and federal regulations.

[deerhunter_matt]

Let's face it. It's a lot easier to ticket the guy for an unplugged gun or walking out of the woods after dark and getting accused of hunting after hours. The GW's have a pretty hard job when it comes to hunting season trying to patrol a whole county is got to be a nightmare. But it takes a lot of hours and manpower to bust a poaching ring, all your ducks better be in order or the lawyers will get it thrown out on technicalities. So if any of them have been caught up in a year long investigation and then had it thrown out, who do you think they will be citing for a while? You guessed it the easier infractions, it's just human nature. Do I fault them for it, no I don't they're still doing their jobs, just not how some feel they should that's all. Let's face it we all make mistakes that's why we're called humans, there isn't a person out there that hasn't broken a law or two while hunting me included, because I don't care who you are the letter of the law is to detailed to follow 100% period no matter how hard we try.

I'm gonna call BS on this one. Look, I'm not trying to be attacking or anything, but like I said in my post just before this one, it is your responsibility to know all applicable laws. Yes, we all make mistakes. Unfortunately, some of those mistakes come with consequences. Make the mistake, face the consequence. If you are walking out of the woods after dark and your gun is loaded or your arrow is knocked, guess what? You are gonna get cited!!!! If your gun isn't plugged while pursuing deer or migratory birds, guess what? You're gonna get cited!!! The DNR isn't going to hand out citations for someone not breaking the law. If they do, then fight it, and you should have no problem winning. Be courteous, don't break the laws.

Also like I said, the regs book explains in layman terms all applicable regulations. No, you don't have to read each regulation in it's original form. Read the regs, they provide you with the DNR's interpretation, which is all that will matter if you get caught. "Well, I was hunting for rabbits with my unplugged gun, but this dove flew over so I shot it. Therefore, since I was originally hunting for rabbits, I wasn't breaking the law." WRONG. Busted.

I am sure to read the regs front to back EVERY YEAR. That way, I know if I am about to break a law.

[Eric45653]

I think were getting off topic. The OP was concerning GW tresspassing and 4th amendment issues.
Maybe start a new thread?

[deerhunt45]

I think were getting off topic. Maybe start a new thread?

Dang hijackers ;)

This thread was dead for 4 months before being resurrected. It's only natural after many pages of posts for the topic to "drift" a bit. Not sure what more there is to discuss.

45

[Eric45653]

Dang hijackers ;)

This thread was dead for 4 months before being resurrected. It's only natural after many pages of posts for the topic to "drift" a bit. Not sure what more there is to discuss.

45

I know..i have already been beat into submission by you guys..i dont want to re-live it!:D

[cjd3]

Any exposure I've had w/ the GW in my county has been Good. I have no issue w/ them coming out on my land. You should have nothing to fear but fear its self"

["J"]

Matt you can throw the BS flag all you want and I'm not taking offense to it, but my point being is a game warden can follow anyone around through out any given day and find something to cite them on while out in the field, and reading the rule book that just highlights the regulations ain't going to cut it. That's all I saying. If a GW is in a mood to sight someone they will find something. PS I never said the gun was loaded :whistle:

[deerhunter_matt]

I think were getting off topic. The OP was concerning GW tresspassing and 4th amendment issues.
Maybe start a new thread?

It all kinda stemmed out of my post saying that if you aren't doing anything wrong, you have nothing to worry about. Sorry if it got a little off-topic, and sorry if it stirred up. I just found it interesting how some of these posts were leaning towards condoning people getting off for "minor infractions" becuase "people make mistakes." Apologies guys.

[ohiosam]

I don't really think it has gone off topic that much. The topic is what are the limits to a Game Wardens powers. I have no problem with a game warden walking on to private property. I have a real problem with the idea he can come in to my home without a warrant.

I also have a problem with people telling me that if I don't want a Game Warden snooping through my house I must be doing something wrong:irked:

I have been checked by Game Wardens twice in my life. Once in Ontario and once in Ohio. The Ontario officer was polite but firm, kind of like the Highway Patrol. The Ohio officers were the most unprofessional law enforcement officers I've have ever met. These were not local game wardens but "detectives" brought in for the week of gun season. They accused us of all kinds of illegal activities, but couldn't find even one minor violation for the whole group(8 or 10). BTW I've never even had a "minor" violation, and pride myself on following all the rules. My local Game Wardens know us and seem to respect us, which is probably why we don't get checked.

[Eric45653]

I don't really think it has gone off topic that much. The topic is what are the limits to a Game Wardens powers. I have no problem with a game warden walking on to private property. I have a real problem with the idea he can come in to my home without a warrant.

But they are FORBIDDEN to so without a warrant from a judge. That is guarenteed by the 4th. Anywhere that you have a "reasonable expectation of privacy" is protected under the 4th amendment. They can search your car...but they cannot search .) your trunk .) your locked glove compartment .) any locked container in your vehical or person .) your home .) any building under your control etc.

Only three ways to search (or access) those areas 1.) Warrant 2.) Consent 3.) exgergent (sp?) circumstances.

The only additional powers that the GW has that is different then any other LE agent is that they can enter private lands only based on their "reasonable suspician" that a crime is being commited.

Accessing those area's without one of the three things I mentioned in place is a violation of your civil rights. The problem is, some GW's do it anyway, and thats why they ALL get a bad REP.

[gary]

It's commonly believed that game wardens have different (more) authority than other law enforcement officials, but they do NOT. They fall under the same Constitution that every one else falls under. They just don't remember that sometimes, and not enough people call them on it.

Being new here and after reading the first few post I was getting that sick feeling again in my stomach. Still feeling a little nauseous. Then I read yours and began feeling a lot better. It amazes me how little people understand freedom 101. I get that sick feeling every time I see how close we are coming to a police/nanny state.

[Lanse couche couche]

Ignorance of the law is obviously not an excuse. But, I also think that some game laws (or the GW's understanding of them) can be vague enough to cause problems. I think that the typical rules and regulations booklets distributed by each state are actually a distillation of thousands of pages of formal laws. So, there can be confusion. For example, i once called a game warden to get some clarification about a particular regulation, and his response was that he couldn't give a definite answer because it was a "gray area" and different officers might respond differently. So, the simple fact of the matter is that they if they want, GW's can make it difficult for even those who think that they are acting in good faith and following the rules. I'm not trying to knock GW's, but neither am I gonna buy into the line that they are infallible and that everyone who is critical of one of them must have something to hide.

[ktrain72]

:yeahthat:

[uglykat26]

i gotta add my 2 cents in here just for fun................ i have no problem with game wardens if it wasnt for them i would of been s.o.l after my house burnt, the county i lived in i became a good aqatince with him , any way when he found out i lost my home and everything with it he pops up on my door step of my new place knowing i was trying to get back on my feet with hardly any money to survive on i found two doe's hanging from my porch and a box of clothes with a note that says hope this helps , till this day i dont know how he got the deer but they were both legelly tagged ( i still have the tags) and both field dressed , it helped out lots till i got back on my feet considering i walked away from the fire with the clothes on my back and my car,anyway my point being is I CAN ONLY GIVE THE MOST HIGH RESPECT TO GAME WARDENS THEY DO THERE JOB TO THE BEST OF THEYRE ABILITY AND THEN SOME:)

[uglykat26]

i gotta add my 2 cents in here just for fun................ i have no problem with game wardens if it wasnt for them i would of been s.o.l after my house burnt, the county i lived in i became a good aqatince with him , any way when he found out i lost my home and everything with it he pops up on my door step of my new place knowing i was trying to get back on my feet with hardly any money to survive on i found two doe's hanging from my porch and a box of clothes with a note that says hope this helps , till this day i dont know how he got the deer but they were both legelly tagged ( i still have the tags) and both field dressed , it helped out lots till i got back on my feet considering i walked away from the fire with the clothes on my back and my car,anyway my point being is I CAN ONLY GIVE THE MOST HIGH RESPECT TO GAME WARDENS THEY DO THERE JOB TO THE BEST OF THEYRE ABILITY AND THEN SOME:)



p.s when i did get back on my feet he found a new mossburg 500 still in the boxon his truck seat with his wifes permission ( he still dont know how i got into the truck with out him knowing it) with a note saying ty and ill never forget what ya did for me

[kc8bvf_2000]

M.MAGIS, Actually there is a difference, just not sure if it applies in Ohio. I know in PA that Game Wardens have almost the same law enforcement powers, but CAN NOT do anything in regards to tresspassing (only a police offcier, or sheriff can handle that), and on the same token a police offcier can not enforce fish and Game Laws.

Police Officer can write fishing/game violation that are in the jurisdiction. They generally do not, but they can.

[WRS77]

Have to throw in my two cwnts... just for fun. I know there are alot of GW that do their job to the best of their ability. But I do know that they do make mistakes just like everyone else does, that is what being human is all about. I do not believe that because they are human and make mistakes that id they don't understand the law or don't seem to be up to par on the standards set forth by the state then they are not doing their job or providing the service that they were hired to perform. The law has always been hard to interprit, we all know that from trying to figure out some of it ourselves. If they make a mistake that's cool, just don't be a prick about it, that goes for anyone with a job. I am glad that they look into tresspasser and don't mind them on my property at all. There are just a few out there that need to remember we are a hunter when they approach us "NOT A POACHER" treat us with respect until you find out that who you are dealing with is doing something illegal, then drop the hammer on them, they deserve it. But what happened to innocent until proven guilty? And thius is happening not just with GW but also alot of other LE agencies around the nation, <<<<<stepping down from the box now......>>>>>>>

[gOmerfuDD101]

the dnr rank right in there with coons and opposumes

[OHBOW76]

There are good ODNR officers and bad ones just like any other job or position. However the problem is most people remember the bad ones and forget the good ones and thats all you end up hearing about. The way I look at it, is if I'm not doing anything wrong then I dont have anything to worry about. Now dont get me wrong I would be pissed off if a warden was treating me like a damm slob when I was a law abiding hunter, but at the end of the day if you aren't doing anything wrong they cant get you on anything, so what does it matter.
Now dont think that for one minute I am some ODNR apologist or sympathizer, but they have a job to do, its hard work, long hours and they are spread thin. They have to deal with the scum and slobs that we all bitch and complain about on hear all the time, all while playing within the rules of law while the slobs use the same laws to hide behind. With all the scum they have to deal with day in and day out it burns them out, they probably get tired of giving people the benefit of the doubt becuase I am sure at some point they have and been burned by it. Hell I hardly give peopel the benefit of the doubt anymore, wiht all the clowns run around these days.
I guess all I am tryign to say is put yourself in their shoes, dont give them a hard time, just realize they have a job to do, and if it means being a little rude to law abidign sportsman but their catching the real scum the I dont care.

[fisheswithpole]

My wife and I recently moved to Perry County from Hilliard, OH. We were able to purchase some land along with our new home and I am ignorant to the regulations surrounding hunting your own land. I see in the Rules & Regulations pamphlet that you do not have to have your hunting license and deer permits to harvest deer on your own land. However, I do some hunting in Southern Ohio as well.

Do my deer taken on my own land count against my available purchased permits? In other words, can I harvest a buck on my property and still hunt for one in Southern Ohio?

I've searched the R&R's Pamphlet and the Ohio Revised Code and could not find anything definate on the matter. Everyone I have spoken to about this, offers a different interpretation.

Also, how much land is required to classify as landowners. I have heard differing opinions on that subject as well.

Thanks,
Fisheswithpole

[uglykat26]

according to the game warden i know you have to have at least 10 acres but it seems to vary with every game warden i have talked to , and its only one antlerd deer per year no matter how or where or what with that buck was taken

[FredT]

The pamplet of regs is silent on how much land one must own to claim land owner rights. How can a game warden say 10 when the regs does not say that?

[uglykat26]

The pamplet of regs is silent on how much land one must own to claim land owner rights. How can a game warden say 10 when the regs does not say that?


i dunno im just saying what i have heard from different game wardens i have had many tell me 5 acres or more only two have told me 10 acres or more

[pstryjew]

The "law" (Ohio Revised Code) doesn't have any size limitations with regards to Landowner licenses:

http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/1533

1533.10 Hunting Licenses
The owner of lands in the state and the owner’s children of any age and grandchildren under eighteen years of age may hunt on the lands without a hunting license. The tenant and children of the tenant, residing on lands in the state, may hunt on them without a hunting license.

1533.11 Deer and Turkey Permits
The owner and the children of the owner of lands in this state may hunt deer or wild turkey thereon without a deer or wild turkey permit. The tenant and children of the tenant may hunt deer or wild turkey on lands where they reside without a deer or wild turkey permit.

Don't know what the Wildlife Officer can ticket you for.

Remember section 1533 of the Ohio Revised Code is the Hunting/Fishing laws - make use of it.

Pete

[ryf]

This is my opinion about the hunting game wardens, not a legal standpoint, so starting there. I'm not making excuses for any wardens, but they mostly deal with good and bad people who are MOSTLY walking around with loaded firearms and other deadly devices(a bow/firearm, one or two knives, lord knows what else), a poacher might just as well kill someone than get caught if its remote enough, why should he "assume" any different? I know you want them to assume your innocent, but that doesnt get them home or to retirement age.. keep in mind what you COULD be and what you are carrying when you are dealing with game wardens. regular police officers don't have an 99% contacts with deadly devices. if the warden can see you hunting he has probable cause, having a out of the case provides the right to ask you. I also agree if a warden is working your property too much, you should complain to his supervisor about harassment, but ruining one hunt a year wouldn't be harassment if you are in a easily spotted area, IMO. if I was tooo visible I'd think about a new spot to hide.

[XSPOTKILLER]

Having Just Moved From Indiana Im Wondering,game Warden Or Conservation Officer?

[coonskinner]

game warden...:D

[trekker]

Hardin County has a really good Warden.. He's very friendly in the field, but is also firm when needed. The warden in Hancock county is another story. Wanna-be tough guy.

[buckslayer98]

You need no Licenses or tags when pursuing game on your on property (There is NO min acre restriction) however the game must expire on your own property and you still have to follow all the odnr laws. You cannot take a buck on land owners and then purchase a second over the counter.

[lilblue79]

there r good and bad officers every where you go but their job can be pretty tough if done properly any one who is interested about what they r doing can look in to your local court and see what types of citations and cases r going on i diddnt believe that these guys were doing anything either until i looked it up after a friend told me i could do so and you would not believe the people that are being caught and delt with so imo know the whole story before you say they r not soing anything and as the land thing goes my property will always allow dnr to be there cause if u aint doing nothing wrong you aint got nothing to hide

[HillbillynOhio]

US constitution trumps state law.
4th amendment
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.




If you don't mind I;m gonna give my two cents?

It's the same thing in WV. My cousin had his rifle leaning against his truck while parked on a logging road on his property and a Game Warden drove by and decided to drive up the gated well road that was shut and saw us there and gave him a $100 ticket. Don't ask me how he even knew we were there.

I agree about the 4th admendment here.According the states the rights of animals trumps the rights of people and or landowners who pay taxes and for the most part are law abiding citizens until proven innocent.I don't if any of these cases have made it to the Supreme Court but I would like to see what they would have to say but I would fot it to get the before Obama get his Socialists thinking Judges in there or we won't be a unbias ruling.

As far as land owner poaching that may go on but there are far more road hunters that do it than land owner that do it and they don't do much to them because one minute their there next minute their gone. Where is the land owner gonna go? You have the probable Cause and a warrent use them like the others. IMHO

[antiqucycle]

The main problem when you own 2 acres, 5 acres is retrieving a deer that dies on an adjacent property. You need that landowners permission so be nice to your neighbors. With a bow, its likely a deer may go a 100 yards or more. With a gun, you might hit a house.

As for unreasonable searches, my local police department has some bad apples. They will pull you over on a traffic stop for some goofy reason just to create a possible search. They have no grounds to write a ticket but ask for permission to search your vehicle. If you say no to the search as you have the right to do, they dream up an excuse to tow your vehicle. Then they "inventory the contents"(legally?) before the vehicle is towed and find some contraband. They think this is a loophole for an illegal search. You are in for a real headache paying an attorney to get you out of the mess.

[coonskinner]

The pamplet of regs is silent on how much land one must own to claim land owner rights. How can a game warden say 10 when the regs does not say that?not sure but i think there may be some laws not in there...not sure all i can say is call them and get something in writing that will hold up in court...:D

[coonskinner]

one of the biggest abuses is landowners and writing their own permits...look for this to change...you will have to have a permit from the wildlife dept. just like all hunters...its just to easy to write on a piece of paper...people not even owning land are doing it,they've been caught...i'm sure a lot of lawbreaking landowners would love the gamewarden asking permission to come on the land when the gamewarden hasnt a clue laws are being broken...i ask do you want the cheats getting away with this stuff...you sure as heck sound like it...i want them all caught...its tough enough to catch them as it is...when i get my property i wouldn't have a problem at all with them coming on,shoot maybe theyll catch somebuddy stealing my stand...:D

[HillbillynOhio]

one of the biggest abuses is landowners and writing their own permits...look for this to change...you will have to have a permit from the wildlife dept. just like all hunters...its just to easy to write on a piece of paper...people not even owning land are doing it,they've been caught...i'm sure a lot of lawbreaking landowners would love the gamewarden asking permission to come on the land when the gamewarden hasnt a clue laws are being broken...i ask do you want the cheats getting away with this stuff...you sure as heck sound like it...i want them all caught...its tough enough to catch them as it is...when i get my property i wouldn't have a problem at all with them coming on,shoot maybe theyll catch somebuddy stealing my stand...:D


I don't think anyone said ask permission? Other law inforcement use probable cause to go on someones property. Again, they are not worried about your treestand. They would more than likely watch someone walk off with it as long as they weren't draggin a deer with it....It is called private property for a reason. Are we suppose to surrender our home to these guys because the suspect we might have unchecked deer meat in our home?

I was told that if someone gives you meat that was unchecked and the warden comes in and finds that meat that he cantake all the meat and any Deer head mounts checked or not and antlers in your home from years ago. Anyone know if that is true?

[antiqucycle]

yes its the law to at least retain the tag number on meat. But I have never seen the game wardens raid a flea market for racks without tags. I think they have busted people for selling illegal animals like coons and coyote pups.

[coonskinner]

I don't think anyone said ask permission? Other law inforcement use probable cause to go on someones property. Again, they are not worried about your treestand. They would more than likely watch someone walk off with it as long as they weren't draggin a deer with it....It is called private property for a reason. Are we suppose to surrender our home to these guys because the suspect we might have unchecked deer meat in our home?

I was told that if someone gives you meat that was unchecked and the warden comes in and finds that meat that he cantake all the meat and any Deer head mounts checked or not and antlers in your home from years ago. Anyone know if that is true?

you seem to want an advantage over other hunters,a gamewarden should be able to check you as easy as a guy on public land...its because cheating is going on...deer shot after dark,deer shot before legal hours...party hunting,illegal tagging...rifles being used...shotguns during muzz...a game warden should be able to set up a sting to catch these poachers red handed...it goes on a lot...i want them caught...:bouncy:

[HillbillynOhio]

"Advantage"? Owning my my own property that I work hard for to get and maintain to keep and pay taxes on, you mean that advantage? You also sir are saying as a landowner that I'm already guilty of something just because I'm a landowners.But the other poachers can drive around to my property and shoot my animals and leave them lay and never be caught but I'm already guilty just because I'm a land owner? And you can't tell there isn't a poacher out there that do anything you described with or without their own land? They are Criminals I am not!

You want poachers caught? Write down license plate numbers! Take a Camera,Cam Corder of your neighbor who might be breakin the law. We have to much technology we can use for the Gamewarden to come Sneakin around on my property without permission!


That is not Logical nor would I say Constitutional. I would love to see what the Supreme Court would say about this. Landowners shouldn't have any less rights than anyone else.If they want to set to catch poachers they can ask and I would let them set up. I am a law abiding hunter always have been and I resent the fact that I would be considered guilty until provin innocent just because I'm a landowner, that is plain wrong. That is to much power to the state.

I Government that has enough power to give you everything is Government that can take everything away.....

[Siman08/OH]

I do not have time to read and sift through all the post, but i do have some things to add,

I know for a FACT that games wardens can go anywhere, anytime. Probable cause is bologna because all he has to say is he heard a gunshot or got an anonymous tip, he does not need to show proof of either.

I also know that they can and will enter buildings whenever they want. Once again, they need probable cause, so all they have to do is see an antler through the window and they can start "checking tags".

I have had game wardens on my property RUN to avoid me...what in god's name does a game warden have to hide from me for?

TO all people out there who assume im some kind of juvenile law breaking punk, i will admit that i have been in trouble with the DNR before..

..for accidentally leaving some shotgun shells in the woods while rabbit hunting...they tried to get me on littering charges.

[antiqucycle]

With the new APV law, they have another probable cause to tresspass to check your license plate. APV is correct, all purpose vehicle, meaning golf carts do not need a license plate but everything else does. I suspect the next move by the state legislature will be putting license plates on lawn tractors and handicapped scooters..

and when you have a jacked up golf cart, with knobby tires, and a gun rack, why dont they need $35 plates?

[OHBOW76]

A bit off topic maybe, but since we are talking game laws I have a question. How long do you have to retain the metal tags for?? I take them off my mounted deer heads.

[jackalope]

A bit off topic maybe, but since we are talking game laws I have a question. How long do you have to retain the metal tags for?? I take them off my mounted deer heads.

for as long as the head exists..

[TheCream]

"Advantage"? Owning my my own property that I work hard for to get and maintain to keep and pay taxes on, you mean that advantage? You also sir are saying as a landowner that I'm already guilty of something just because I'm a landowners.But the other poachers can drive around to my property and shoot my animals and leave them lay and never be caught but I'm already guilty just because I'm a land owner? And you can't tell there isn't a poacher out there that do anything you described with or without their own land? They are Criminals I am not!

You want poachers caught? Write down license plate numbers! Take a Camera,Cam Corder of your neighbor who might be breakin the law. We have to much technology we can use for the Gamewarden to come Sneakin around on my property without permission!


That is not Logical nor would I say Constitutional. I would love to see what the Supreme Court would say about this. Landowners shouldn't have any less rights than anyone else.If they want to set to catch poachers they can ask and I would let them set up. I am a law abiding hunter always have been and I resent the fact that I would be considered guilty until provin innocent just because I'm a landowner, that is plain wrong. That is to much power to the state.

I Government that has enough power to give you everything is Government that can take everything away.....

I don't think he was implying you are automatically guilty, but there are a lot of private land owners who are not as law-abiding as yourself. I would be willing to bet that as many wildlife violations are committed on private property as public.

I bolded two parts of your post. You imply people could come onto your ground and poach and never be caught...and in the second bolded section you seem to know how to solve the issue....but if you can't do it and you don't want wardens to be able to come onto private ground, who will stop them if not you? Let's face it, the working man like I am assuming you are and myself can not be there to monitor our land every day. Even though a warden's chances of catching someone are slim due to their low numbers, I still like knowing if a warden drives by and sees suspicious activity on my ground when I am not there, he/she can act. I consider that a good thing.

[graciolly]

There should be two one is a ten I think and one is a big eight. nice pics, how do you get that close?

[Redhunter1012]

I don't like seeing poachers get away with stuff. But, unless a warden witnesses or has strong suspicion a law is being broken, they should have to have landowners permission. Have seen GW's walk out into a field to check hunters for licenses while they are on stand during a deer drive. The warden apologized loosely after the guy complained about the safety aspect of it, saying he didn't realize we were doing a drive. I heard from 2 other reputable hunters about a GW walking out into treelines while they are setting up and checking their licenses. I will say that I totally appreciate the job they do. Trying to monitor a whole county during gun law is a tiring job. I sure as hell wouldn't want to do it.

[buckeyebowhntr]

there are special circumstances where any law enforcement officer can enter your property, not enough time to go into all of them, but the DNR can enter your land when they have probable cause that illegal activity is taking place. this can be a tip, something they've seen or reasonable suspicion. if you're doing everything by the book i wouldn't worry about them. most DNR officers do not abuse this power, so if they're checking they usually have good reason. somebody has to keep us inline and hunting honest.

[ohiosam]

there are special circumstances where any law enforcement officer can enter your property, not enough time to go into all of them, but the DNR can enter your land when they have probable cause that illegal activity is taking place.

That is the way I believe it should be but game wardens are not required by State law to have probable cause to enter private property.

I would be curious if the Supreme Court would agree but since the penalties for most wildlife violations are so minor no one probably fights that hard.

[BigJohnny]

As far as I'm concerned, if you hunt on private property you are subject to the same checks as if you were on public land. They're wildlife officers, not public hunting officers. It would be a different story if they were checking you every time you hunted and if they were, I'm sure they wouldn't do it without probable cause. If that was the case I would see reason for concern, but it doesn't seem like that's the case.

[Tracker]

If a land owner has proof that soneone is trespassing such as plates and or a pic of that person, would that be good enough for the law.

[patk]

Yes they can. A wildlife officer has jurisdiction over any property except property that is high fenced and privately owned. This is why hunting preserves do not have fo follow ohio hunting regulations. Unless you have a high fence the game you are hunting is property of the citizens of ohio. A wildlife officer has jurisdiction to enforce laws on any publicly "owned" game, whether it be public or private propert. You may own the land but you do not own the wildlife