Are cross-bows cheating?

[eyetaker]

I feel that unless you have an injury that would prevent you from hunting with a compound, long, or recurve bow that shooting a deer with a scope and bow that is alreadly at full draw is cheating. What do you all think? Isn't the reason we bow hunt for the "thrill of the hunt" and the skill required to bring a bow back to full draw on an exstremely intelligent animal? It just doesn't seem as sporting to me.

[Lance]

I use to feel extremely strong about this with the same view as you do. Anymore however, with the numbers of hunters remaining steady or falling here in Ohio I think we need all of the friends in the field we can get. I don't think scopes should be allowed but beyond that....... Do I use one? no not on your life but with the 65% let-off compunds these days I'm not sure that crossbows offer are THAT much an advantage on the holding at full draw unless of course your in extremely tighte quarters or you feel the need to play he-man and shoot your compound at #70+ draw weight. I clean kill can easily be made with #40 draw so in essence your only required to hold back as little as 15 lbs. Those are my thoughts, being we're in land of the crossbow it should be interesting to hear what others think.

[ShoreBoundOne]

I am new to this sight, just wanted to say hi and add my .02. I am new to Ohio. I transfer from 3 years of zero hunting in Hawaii and was lookin forward to breakin out my guns and gettin a deer. I was not happy when i found out the Gun season was only 7 days. Now not everyone has the time to spend to become proficient with a compound... i know i dont. I dont see what the problem with crossbows being used is. Do you not have to be a skilled hunter to get a deer with one?? i think not. All hunting takes skill and time in the woods. is it slightly easier to shoot than a compound?? yes it is. A match-grade trap gun is easier to hit a bird with than a walmart 870, but i dont see anyone complain about that. i beleive Ohio allows using a Xbow because the gun season is so short. Other states are changeing there view about Xbows, Pennsylvania for one.
Its a good debate and i dont want to ruffle anyone but you should ask all the darn out of range deer (over 30 yards) i have seen this year if i have a unfair advantage.
I am a ethical hunter, always have been. Everyone is entitled to an opinion...my answer to all the "holier than thow "bow" hunters" is...if your using anything with wheels and pullys... that gives YOU a unfair mechanical advantage. So unless you shoot a long/recurve and wear mocassins....your not a REAL bow man. See my argument is just as silly as any other out there....the more ethical people we have in the woods...the better no matter what kind of weapon they choose....PETA are the ones we should be fighting, not legal hunters.
Regards,
Mitch

[brock ratcliff]

Crossbows are by no means as "difficult" to use as are compounds, longbows or recurves. I dont feel here in Ohio it is cheating because the ODNR regulates what is ethical in a given season. The misconception seems to be that hunters are allowed to use crossbows during bow season, when in actuality it is bow season and crossbow season. I personally hunt with both compound bows and longbows. I have never hunted with a crossbow. My hunting partner however does. He is an ethical hunter, takes only high percentage shots, and generally kills what he shoots at. He loves to be in the woods without the slug guns, he just doesnt enjoy archery enough to put in the time to be proficient with bows.

[woodland_archer]

I am not against ethical hunters using a crossbow. I am however
not in favor of those hunters who are lazy, and unethical who chose to hunt with a crossbow only to extent the gun season.
There are many archery organizations that are anti -crossbow.
The PBS is, I believe is the most vocal. They say that crossbow hunters take away the quality of bowhunting from bowhunters.
I have not found that to be the case 99% of the time. I hunt on public land exclusively and very rarely run into someone with a crossbow. It would seem there are more bowhunters than crossbow hunters.

Jeremy

[jeffmo]

well,i'm new here but i'm gonna put in my .02cents worth.
1st off, i just basically left the bowsite because of all of the crossbow arguments that are constantly going on over there.all it does is create bad feelings and ruin a good site.i sure hope that doesn't happen here.making friends,sharing info,stories,and tips are what these sites should be all about.
i do use a crossbow,i have for many years now(it's an old pse).i enjoy using it and have taken a good many deer with it.
do i feel like i'm "cheating" by using it? not at all.
i do alot of practicing with it.not just flat shooting but from the same height as my stand.that is the result of making a shot that wasn't what i wanted the 1st year i hunted with it.there have been years that i haven't hunted when the season rolled around because i didn't have the time(because of work) to practice shooting or do the amount of scouting i like to do.if i can't put in the time that i feel is necessary before the season i simply won't hunt.
through the years i have gotten permission to hunt alot of private farm land.but i got it by baling alot of hay and straw and doing some other work for the landowners.i always take them some of what i harvest from their land as well as some mushrooms and fish throughout the year.it's just my way of saying thank you to them.
the weapon that someone uses really doesn't concern me.it's how they conduct themselves while they are using it that really matters.
hunt safe!

[woodland_archer]

jeffmo,
I too am getting tired of the elitest crap over at the bowsite, especially on the Leatherwall. I am a traditional shooter but, i'm tired of being dogged cause I shoot aluminum, and carbon arrows. or cause I use an elevated rest and do not shoot off the shelf.

Jeremy

[eyetaker]

I spend more time out doors than on the computer so some one please explain whre or what 'bowsite" everyone is talking about. Thanks in advance. -Kevin

[woodland_archer]

Kevin,
Bowsite is a website that is strictly archery. www.bowsite.com
If you go there Click on interactive to get to the forums.

Jeremy

[Gator Guy]

To each their own.Whatever your preference is, have at it.I am an X-Bow user and still have to be able to get deer in range,be clean,hang stands in proper location,play the wind and so on.I feel it lets people who ordinarily wouldn't hunt with a commpound a chance to experience what bow hunting has to offer.
We need ethical hunters in numbers to keep the sport alive regardless of the weapon.

[Nut]

I dont feel that hunting with a crossbow is cheating. I also know by now not to debate it's merits with anybody on the net.:D

[Ðe§perado™]

This is just my opinion.....I feel that crossbow users are archer want to be's. It takes 20 mins. to sight them in and then they claim they can out shoot everyone. Why do you think archery clubs don't have crossbows in them...they are not archers. I know people will be coming on here from other sites to whine about how great they are and how we are not giving them a chance and I don't have time to shoot. They where brought to this state for handicap hunters who can't shoot a reg. bow. Then all the people would whine and then instead of listening to the people complaining they can't shoot a bow. The law allowed them in and now they whine , because they can't get into clubs with them. I think they are a gun and should only be used in gun season. I'm sorry if I affended anyone, just save it and get a real bow.

I'm stepping down now off my soapbox.:D

[Nut]

:rolleyes: That is the reason it is pointless to discuss the issue.:D

[Gator Guy]

I am not a wannabe,the proof is on wall and in the freezer.What is the big deal when I can blast 5 deer in this state with a gun? Who is they?You're not lumping me in there are you? If you feel that pasionately about it,get the laws changed.

Better get the "archers" on the net cause you're falling behind in the poll!
Nut is right:)

[heydeerman]

I dont care for em and dont shoot em but they are legal and we need the numbers. Xbow and Bowhunters need to stick together.

heydeerman

[Ðe§perado™]

I guess for the sake of selling more lic. and getting money for the outdoors. Shoot away.:D

If you did notice, It's my opinion of how I feel about the subject and everyone is entitled to there opinion.:rolleyes:

[Gator Guy]

You gotta love it eh Desperado?....lol

[Ðe§perado™]

:D

[ShoreBoundOne]

Nut hit the nail on the head!!
Just for you Desperado, i came up with my own 5 step program.

Hi my Name is Mitch and i use a crossbow.
I am not a Archer
I am a Hunter
I promise not to attempt to infiltrate any archery clubs.
I promise not to whine about not enough time to practice.
At last but not least...I promise not to tell any more elitest "archers" to shut up and put on their mocasins.

:D
Mitch

[TheViperess]

Hi I am new here and really don't want to get any one mad but my opinion on cross bows is this I think they are great. If it was not for the cross bow I would not be able to hunt in the archery season for I can not pull a bow string back and hold it there. I have a medical condition that prevents me .So if not for the cross bow my season for deer would only be 1 week long. It brings more people into hunting.

[zfish]

As many of you know I do hunt with a crossbow and I know its a touchy subject with people but there is a reason for me using one. I did not feel comfortable with the compound that I had and did not feel that I could make a 1 shot kill (hoyt easton gamegetter II) So I started using my crossbow. Shoreboundone.. I am right with you! I do not complain and I dont try to get into any archers clubs lol. :D Now would I like to get a new compound or long bow and become good with it Yes I would. Also I spent day after day with my compound and did not get it to shoot the same place every time... Later on (recently) I finally met someone who hunted with a compound and gave me some pointers on why it was off and things I needed to get it sited in correctly. And Yes I did have sites on the bow lol... Just my .02 everyone have a great day. :D

[MadCatter]

I think crossbows have their place, but I also feel they belong in the gun season, it is much easier to learn to shoot one, they require little or no practice, shoot like a gun, aim like a gun, remain cocked and loaded like a gun therefore need to be regulated like a gun. I am not blaming crossbows or hunters that use them ... but when something is that easy to learn, any tom dick or harry can walk into walmart, pick out a crossbow and head out in the field with little or no experience. Just like the gun season. The less effort you have to put into something the more likelihood of bad hunters out in the woods. I know there are bad hunters period, but I feel the simpler you make it for a bad hunter to get in the field the more damage you do to the sport....

[ShoreBoundOne]

What makes people think you can just go out and buy a gun and start shooting away with little or no practice?
As a Small arms Instructor i can tell you this isnt true. I have trained literally thousands of service men and women how to shoot pistols...shotguns....rifles and although some take to it readily....about 40 to 50 percent cant hit the broad side of a barn without alot of one on one.
Ill say it again .....ALL FIREARMS TAKE PRACTICE TO USE.
A bow takes more than a gun? depends on what each of you are shooting at doesn't it?

Ok ill stop.

Mitch

[Nut]

LOL good aint it?:D

Hunters should support each other. If we dont we might as well fish.:D

[MadCatter]

The law clearly states that anyone over the age of 21 can go out and buy a gun, never having fired one and hunt the very same day .. its not right not safe not anything one should do .. but legal

[zfish]

Im with you and Amen to that. :) We shouldnt bash one another we are all in it for the same reason no matter what your weapon of choice is as long as its legal and you use repect and common sence with your weapons then by all means hunt with what you like when you like.

[Nut]

18 for a rifle and 21 for a hangun.;)

[MadCatter]

I think you have to be 21 to get a hunting licence for the first time ... that is a scary thought you have to admit, no experiece with a gun or hunting ... sitting in a tree stand, and you come walking by on your way to the car...

I don't think anyone on these sites would ever try to take away anyones right do hunt with what ever they choose as long as it is legal ... We all have had enough of our rights taken away .. I have hunted with shot gun, handgun, bow and 1 time with my brothers crossbow.
The first thing that comes out of most crossbow shooters mouth after they shoot their first shot withone is ... Man this thing shoots like a rifle:D :D :D :D . I just say its closer to a gun than it is a bow in a lot of ways ... I would never say one thing to take someone right away to use it.

[flathunter]

All I know is I live in Southeast Ohio, and the deer population is skyrocketing, I have hunted with a crossbow and will agin...
The DNR Wants deer killed by any legal method there is to many deer.....If I am not mistaken the compound bow is faster, and more accurate, and shoots farthur than the crossbow?????


Realy I think we have those that will abuse the sport no matter the weapon of choice..I am just glad the responsible hunters outnumber the unresponsible hunters.

[flathunter]

Also I have seen this subject brought up on other forums, and all it leads to is arguments..Lets stick together gentlemen!

[Aimrite]

Only reason I don’t like crossbows is it puts hunters in the woods quickly and accurately and attracts people looking for the quick easy way. These Wal-Mart wonders AKA Slobs are hurting more than they are helping.

Some of you say they are good because they help hunters numbers. What good are theses hunters if they are slobs?

[jeffmo]

i think that there are probably more "new" hunters during gun week than bow season.i'd much rather see a new hunter buy a crossbow and go hunting for the 1st time than i would see that same person buy a slug gun and head to the woods.the truth be known,i'd like to see them all take a safety course!
blindly labeling them all as slob hunters doesn't seem fair to me.
i hunted many years before i bought a crossbow.my ethics go with me no matter what weapon i'm using.
i will agree that it is easier to learn to shoot a crossbow(i wouldn't be a very honest person if i couldn't admit that)than it is a compound or long bow.but to me,the ease of learning any weapon has little to with the level of dedication a hunter has while they are in the woods.
here's a question that i saw on another site a while back:
if there were no more crossbows in this world would all of the slob hunters disappear?

it's just something to think about.let's remember,we're all hunters here and none of us like un-ethical hunters.no matter what they are using.

[Troph-E-Hunter]

I believe that Indiana Regulations does at least one thing right....limit crossbows to injured or handicapped persons only. I personnaly don't like it because it is like having a loaded gun out in the field. Also, my experience as been that the majority of crossbow hunters that I come into contact with are sloppy, uneducated and typically your "gun hunting" enthusiast who wants the easiest method of kill.

I don't like crossbows at all.

[Ðe§perado™]

Well Gentlemen, I guess all we can do is agree to disagree about this. It will get us no where. let's just move on. :rolleyes:

[Gator Guy]

Boy I hope you don't use a release,Fred Bear said thats a cheatin!It's pretty sad that all you so called archers are so closed minded to lump everyone who shoots an X-bow into these categories: uneducated,sloppy,slobs..***??
Ahh..And just because you can hit a target with your compound doesn't make you a hunter.That goes for all weapons.
eyetaker knew this was a comin...:)

[pawclaws]

Glad you boys started this thread. I've been thinking about picking up a cross bow to extend my season. Didn't have much luck this year during gun season and for me that is what I expect. My visual accuity is about half of what you would consider normal so I must get a whole lot closer than most of you before I am able to verify a good clean shot. That's the primary reason I use a pistol; I don't want to be tempted at taking a longer shot than I'm certain about! When caution increases, opportunities decrease. That's why I was thinking of picking up a cross bow. I'm not going to try to justify my intent. No reason to. If it is legal; nuff said. You fellows have a preference then by all means make yourselves happy. You know there are actually folks who won't wash their coffee pots? Say it ruins the flavor! It's legal; I'll wash mine though.:)

[rjolenic]

I guess I have always tried to take a "traditional" approach to bowhunting, eventhough I do shoot a compound bow. Crossbows are ok if there is a condition there that prohibits a person from using a longbow.

[rjolenic]

Regardless of weapon of choice, it all comes down to an ethics issue. There are certain situations during a hunt that can bring the best and worst out of a hunter. Let's talk shot selection and range of shot given your choice weapon. It all comes down to knowing the limitations of the weapon as well as your ability to perform a lethal shot on the animal. There's more to expand on here I suppose.

[Thunderflight@work]

I've got nothing against crossbows. I used one when I was younger, but now I shoot a compound.

I have several friends who shoot them and are every bit as ethical as most bowhunters I know.

I will say that I don't think there is near the challenge compared to hunting with a compound. You can sit still with a crossbow and don't have to stand up or draw back. All you have to do is point and shoot.


Thunderflight

[Farmbear]

Wow what a toppic. Some old thing. I use a crossbow I love it. Is it a bow like a compound bow no. It's a devise all it's own. Do I have a compound bow yes I do. Do I like it no. Do I have the time to practise day after day to get good at it not any more. When I was a boy after school & all summer when I was not in the woods cutting fire wood or helping put up hay I did not any more. I have to work to live. I wish I could make a liven out of hunting But thats only on T.V. Do I think they are a bow yes it is. But it's a xbow not a compond or recurve. I fell that it brings hunter to the woods that wouldn't be there otherwise. As for me if they say I can't use it any more will I bow hunt no I will not. I fell I clean kill is better than a bad shot. The antis don't need any more ammo than what they have. To me we are all part of the family of hunters. We need to stand together. So lets hunt with what we like to hunt with & what is legal. So people like chevy some like ford. Thats why they make both. Love to hunt work to live. God bless are way of life. My we all stand together before we all fall. Amen.:mad:

[Basementdweller]

All I have to say is Woodcraft......If you don't have it you won't but the venison in the freezer on a regular basis......

I hunt archer not because it is easier but it is more tranquil and I am at piece with nature when I am quiet in the stand for hours. Absolutely nothing more relaxing.

[vc1111]

There are as many ways to hunt as there are ways to fish.

If you are having fun, following the laws, and respecting the rights of the landowners and other hunters, you, my friend, are doing it right.

[Spitfire]

I am new to this site and glad to be rid of the "bowsite". Over there, if you dont hunt with a stick and string your an outsider. For those of you that have been there you know what i am talking about. Some friends and i had the longest post in there history going and they pulled it. As for crossbows, I dont have a problem with them. They are here in this state to stay and those of us that choose to hunt with compounds and trad, equipment need to except this. The only problem I have is the majority of crossbow users are converted gun hunters looking to extend their season. They dont take the time and learn about the effectiveness of the weapon. The big misconception is that it has 150lb. pull and can kill anything out to 50yds. My father in-law bought a crossbow a couple of years ago and i have since converted him to shooting a compound. He harvested his first deer with it this year. Anyway, he has gun hunted since he was a kid and when he got that crossbow he looked at it the same way he did the shotgun. In fact he made the comment to me last season (after several wounded deer), "why am i not getting pass throughs on these deer? I have 150lb pull and you only pull 70lbs." I had to explain the whole kinetic energy thing to him and tell him that his arrow was getting there fast but didnt have the weight to punch it through. Its not the weapon that is the problem, it is the lack of knowledge about the weapon that people use, that is the problem. Heck, the day will come that i cant pull a compound. When that day comes I will be carrying a crossbow, but I know proper shot placement and the capabilities of my weapon.
I am not saying all crossbow shooters are like this but there are alot that are and they need to be educated on their equipment.

[Gator Guy]

I also see guys shooting at deer 150plus yds away with a shotgun.So its not just x- bow users who are not educated.There is a percentage in all hunting circles that we all have to deal with.

[Spitfire]

I guess you have to have some kind of hunting ethics. My father-in-law had a gun hunters mentality when he purchased that crossbow. When I explained that it is'nt going to do what he expected he made the switch and found success. I know what you mean though, it is'nt just crossbow users. There are unethical hunters using all weapons. All I am saying, is that there is a big misconception over the capabilities of the crossbow

[Gator Guy]

I agree.Point well taken.

[pawclaws]

Man, never would have thought that "prejudice", "bigotry", etc. would include choice of hunting style or weapon! You folks that equate cross bow hunters with a lack of education are making an extraordinary leap of prejudice. I've already mentioned that I plan to use a cross bow. P.S. I have three BA degrees as well as a Masters. That's enough of that putrid hate mongering. I have no problem with the fellow that says "I don't approve of cross bow hunting." The fellow that says "I don't approve of cross bow hunters"; got problems with!

[Caribou Dreamer2]

No i dont think it cheating since in ohio it is legal to hunt with, but i think they need to practice with them before they hit the woods.Heck shotguns are cheating if you ask me

[flathunter]

Here is a pic of a 6-point I shot with a cross bow, walked by me at 15 yds.http://thefishfinder.com/members/jack/6point.jpg

[Spitfire]

Congrats flathunter! Looks like it has a pretty decent body on it. Do you know what it dressed out at?

[ShoreBoundOne]

WTG Flat, textbook shot placement !

[Fish]

I just want to say a couple things, and I know almost all here will disagree, but this is how I feel. :)


I don't hunt since I came to Ohio 5 years ago at the age of 31. I grew up in Michigan in a town of about 6 thousand and almost 1 thousand I was related to.

All of my relatives are farmers and I grew up on 1200 acres of farmland just on our property alone and with all of us together it's well over 90,000 acres that we all share only among family and close friends.

I hunted every day since I was about 6. I have never had a license in my life or any hunters safety course. I know that doesn't go over well with most mainstream hunters, but it was our land, and we did what we pleased. We hunted "out of season" and didn't care about any laws for the State. We would go out and whatever we saw, we shot and ate. Didn't matter if it was "deer season" or not. We shot deer year around, unless it was a doe.
We hunted because between what we hunted and what we cropped was our only food. We didn't believe in grocery stores when everything we wanted was on our own land which we worked and payed taxes on.

I think that hunters safety courses are good for some, but in all honesty, if you aren't brought up to respect the land and animals, then no course you take is going to change your mind.

Since coming to Ohio, I don't hunt here anymore since I don't know anyone and have nowhere to go. (I only hunt private land for my own safety) I go to Michigan to get my food, still to this day, but I mainly just fish.

I see a lot of hunters arguing over techniques and what is right or wrong etc.

I think you guys should just agree to disagree and bind together no matter what your opinions are. There's enough people out there that want to disband hunting and having any guns at all, to worry about arguing what's ethical or not. :)

JMO. OK, have fun with flaming me now... ;)

[Lundy43123]

Unreal!

Will this never end? I've been listening to this same topic about crossbows since the 70's when they were first legalized.

Desperado, crossbows were not first legalized in Ohio for the handicapped and latter allowed for all hunters. Crossbows were first legalized for all hunters in the late primitive season only and latter included in the entire bow season.

What makes a hunter think that he is better than another hunter solely based upon the equipment he chooses to hunt with? Is it a macho, ego thing?

I have been bow hunting since the 70's. I have never used a crossbow, but I have zero problem with sharing the field with them.

For those of you that do believe that hunting with conventional bowhunting equipment somehow make you superior to others, please provide ANY statistical data to support this claim. Before you start an extensive search to support this idea, save yourself some time, the data does not exist.

In fact if you examine the ONLY data available to perform any kind of comparison you will find the opposite. If you use the published harvest data compiled by the ODNR and use the buck to doe ratio as the base line you will see that crosbow hunters harvest bucks at a higher ratio than conventional bowhunters. If taking a buck versus a doe is a benchmark of a skilled bowhunter then the crossbow hunters have the ONLY available statistical data with them. Does this data lead me to the conclusion that crossbow hunters are more skilled, of course not.

What does this mean, NOTHING. The skill of a bowhunter is within the man, not his eqiupment.

Some of you guys need to quit walking on water and come back to firm ground.

My opinion,
Kim

[pawclaws]

Thank you Lundy! :D I would certainly rather be a cross bow hunter than a cross bow hunter! :D Seems like maybe a few Robin Hood wanna bes get themselves worked up into a real good wedgie for no good reason whatsoever! And for the Michigan fella up there that never bought a license or never paid any attention to the legal season; man I don't know if you are bragging or confessing but there is a word for that behavior; criminal. :mad:

[jeffmo]

hey pawclaws,what part of athens co.do you live in?
years ago(college days),i lived east of shade for one year.
i really enjoyed that area.lots of good hunting and fishing.the numbers of grouse down there at the time was amazing.
this past summer i had to take my daughter down for band camp.it was the 1st time i had been on the campus for a good many years and the changes they've made are great.that new rec. center is something else!i wish they would have had it when i was down there.
athens is a great town.good people and there's always something to do.

[pawclaws]

Jeff I'm glad you asked that question. I usually include my address in my signature! I'll go fix that right now!! :D

[vc1111]

I happen to live close to and also hunt in Pennsylvania.

Crossbows are NOT legal in Pennsylvania, and if the logic on this thread is true, that would mean less bow hunters in that state, right?

Well, guess what? Bow hunters have zero clout in Pennsylvania. Everytime they've altered the season in the last few years, all in the name of increasing the harvest, they have done so at the expense of the bow hunters. Here's what I mean....they have injected an extra "early" muzzleloader season in the early bow season, which means that you get to bow hunt for about 3 weeks before other guys show up in the woods to "scout" for the upcoming "early muzzleloader season." They have also added a Senior/Junior rifle season for those over or under a certain age. Guess where they put this season? That's right guys, right in the middle of the bow season.

The bow hunters had next to nothing to say about it. They were not happy at all. The bow season in Pennsylvania is now very nicely chewed up with other seasons and other guys in the field.

What is my point? That you should be careful what you ask for (in this case fewer bow hunters)....because you may not get the desired results.

Ohio had another near-record harvest this year. We, as hunters, are doing our job, which is helping to control herd numbers, and we are all having a ball doing it. If we weren't, there would be huge numbers of guys quitting, and the last time I looked that doesn't seem to be the case.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

[Fish]

And for the Michigan fella up there that never bought a license or never paid any attention to the legal season; man I don't know if you are bragging or confessing but there is a word for that behavior; criminal.

It's not criminal if it's our land and that's all we had to eat!

I wasn't bragging and that wasn't the point. The point was that it's how you're brought up and I have no idea why you guys argue about this.

If that's all you had to eat, then you surely wouldn't starve I'm guessing.
Get to know me before you call me criminal and get over your holier than thou attitude! :mad:

[Ðe§perado™]

Lundy43123
That's just what i was told by someone in the ODNR office.:rolleyes:

[pawclaws]

Read it again Fish. I didn't "call" you criminal. I said your behavior is criminal. I'm assuming of course that Michigan laws are similar to Ohio laws in that even on your own land you must obey DNR regulations as well as State and Federal law. Just because you were "brought up that way", doesn't make it legal or even acceptable. Shoot, Ma Barkers boys were "brought up that way"; but their behavior was still criminal. As long as you were in compliance with existing law at the time; no problem. Holier than thou? I don't consider myself to be better than anyone; but, I'm just as good as anyone and I obey the law.

[Fish]

That's fine pawsclaws.

Shoot, Ma Barkers boys were "brought up that way"; but their behavior was still criminal.

You have taken my whole thread out of context.
When I said "It matters how you're brought up.." that was in line with Hunters Safety in the fact that I thought hunters should be taught young the right/wrong way and not let hunter's safety be the first impression they get in life.
It wasn't meant for anyone to do what I did. I don't even remember any of the details when I was young to tell you the truth.

My whole point is, I don't understand all the arguing here. You're a hunter if you use a crossbow or compound, recurve etc. I just don't understand how people can argue about the same thing in every forum when you should be uniting, imo.

I'm not here to argue pawsclaws, so I hope we can just end this. It just seems so trivial to me to argue on a forum about anything.

You can choose to believe or feel what you want about me. I hope there's no hard feelings, but if there is, then I'm ok with that, too. Would just rather have it the other way around is all.

Tightlines,
Fish

[Pike]

vc1111, You could not be further from the truth!!!! You stated that Bowhunters from PA. did not have a say!! Yes we did, the majority of the bowhunters voted against crossbows and the PGC. listened. The PA. bowhunters also voted for the early gun season's for the better health of the herd. We had no problem making sacrifices to improve the health of the herd and the habitat. We understood, why it was better to harvest as many doe as possible in OCT. then it is to havest them in Dec. You see 20 deer will eat 6,000lbs of food in 2 months, So if we harvest them in the middle of Oct. instead of the middle of Dec. for every 20 doe we harvested we saved 6,000 lbs of food. they would have eaten in those 2 months!! And why waste available food and let a deer eat its share for an extra 2 months when most of them were going to end up in a freezer come the middle of Dec. anyway. This way we not only reduced the herd and brought the buck to doe ratio closer together , but we also prevented alot of food that would have been wasted because we harvested many doe 2 months earlier!! Now, the vast majority of Bow hunters supported herd reduction, we just were not told that the PGC. was planning on reducing our herd by nearly 50% But that is a whole different issue!!! :confused: . If the bowhunters of PA. didnt have a voice, we would not have been able to keep the crossguns out of our state!!!! Also the overwelming majority of bowhunters voted and fought for Antler Restrictions, on the other hand the overwelming majority of Rifle hunters, voted against Antler restrictions!! Now guess who won? Pike

[ShoreBoundOne]

You Pennsylanvia guys might want to read your hunting regs...Crossbows are legal in certain counties at certain times...heres the link:
http://sites.state.pa.us/PA_Exec/PGC/faq/deerlaws.htm

[pawclaws]

No hard feelings from here Fish. Like I said"I ain't better than anyone." I do believe though that we older folks have a responsibility to the younger folks to demonstrate values as well as ethics and the skills that we have acquired. Cause you are exactly right; "It's the way we are brought up." There are enough bad examples out there already that need to be overcome. This arguement here for instance; what will the youngsters learn? Will they learn that disagreements can be talked about and worked out? Will they learn that bow hunters are to be respected and cross bow hunters are not? Your guess is as good as anyone's! I think it is a question we should all ask ourselves though. Do you think that anyone should be proud of calling a cross bow hunter a "slob" hunter; especially in front of the youngsters who may not yet be capable of sorting through fact and BS? For instance Pike says up above there that deer antler restrictions were voted against by the overwhelming majority of gun hunters. Now if I were a child I might believe that . However I am an adult that knows that voting is done by secret ballot and that it is not possible to discern the voter's choice of weaponry nor the content of his individual ballot. Now if you folks have any factual information that you would share with me concerning real things about cross bows I would appreciate it because I would like to make an informed decision about whether or not a cross bow is for me. Oh, if you still think that cross bow hunters suck swamp water; you might say exactly why. Cause if you can't do that; maybe you don't know why you believe that and maybe it is time you figured that out as well. :D

[Pike]

Shorebound, Bowhunters in PA. did not object to crossbows being permitted in the our gun season since that is where a gun belongs. We also did not object to crossbows being made legal in the Special Regulations Area's, Which in most area's of SRA's hunting with a rifle or shotgun would be un safe. These small area's have a huge over population problem, because of lack of hunter access and also the fact that its hard to find an area were you can legally discharge a firearm. Again we put the health of our herd before the wants of oursleves. But didnt permitt and will not ever permitt crossguns in the statewide Bow season. But let me also add this, because i am a guest in the state of Ohio, I do not feel that I have a right to comment on what weapons should or should not be legal in your state. The only reason I posted on this thread is because of the mis information vc1111 posted and just wanted to clear that up. Pike

[Pike]

Pawclaws, Hold up!! please do not comment on something that you have no clue what so ever of what you are talking about!! Any hunter had the chance to write or call in their vote!! The main reason of why gun hunters, did not want AR. was because it would be to hard to count points, during the war which is our rifle season. And you know what, They had a very valid point!!! Because it would be alot harder to count points as a buck ran past you at full speed, then it is for a bowhunter hunting deer that are moving naturally. Another reason was, because alot of Rifke hunters only get out 1 or 2 days a year, and didnt feel they could spend enough time afield to have a ledgitimate chance at harvesting a AR. legal buck because of work, family , school etc. Pike

[Lundy43123]

Pike,

Which is it?

In one post you state that the bowhunters of PA have no say in regulations within your state and in a later post on this same thread you state that bowhunters did not and will never allow crossguns in your state.

You imply zero control and the ultimate control at the same time.

Certainly any special interest group within our hunting society have a certain amount of voice on every facet of game laws and management that is or should be considered by the authorites in power. How much weight the apply to any singular voice is matter of speculation.

For you to suggest that any one group or united groups can absolutly gaurantee the exclusion of crossbows being legalized within PA is a very unrealistic assertion on your part.

At some point in time there will be a debate on your rights of not wanting to allow them versus the rights of other hunters that desire them to be legalized. Are your rights more important thans other hunters rights? Someone with the authority to do so will make this decision for you at some point in the future.

Could you inform me of the current law concerning in-line muzzle loaders. I know that they used to be illegal in PA. Someone told me that they are now legal. Is that true?


Never say never,

Kim

[pawclaws]

Originally posted by Aimrite
Only reason I don’t like crossbows is it puts hunters in the woods quickly and accurately and attracts people looking for the quick easy way. These Wal-Mart wonders AKA Slobs are hurting more than they are helping.

Some of you say they are good because they help hunters numbers. What good are theses hunters if they are slobs?

Pardon me gentlemen; but don't those folks who hunt with cross bows require the same hunter's safety course as do archers and gun hunters? Do they not subscribe to the same rules and regulations as all other hunters? I fear that the logic you have used to come to your conclusion Aimrite is faulty and will contribute to a faulty belief system and foster erroneous values.;)

[pawclaws]

Pike, any hunter who doesn't have the time to count points, especially a rifle hunter using a "long range" weapon who has not studied his target has no business in the woods with any kind of a weapon! How can anyone be sure of their target if they shoot at something that is running. You guys might ask my vet buddy down in Amesville about the three legged Huskie thanks to someone who "thought" they were shooting at a deer. The kid that was killed with a bolt in his chest locally tends tospeak volumes about hunting practices. What about the poor fellow whose picture is surfing the net with the arrow sticking in the top of his head, shot from a tree stand with a compound bow. What do all of these things have in common? Only thisl when asked what happened I'm sure the shooter would say I "thought or I didn't know!" Man when you are handing out death I thoughts and I didn't knows just don't work. It really isn't the weapon, it is the person choosing the weapon. Like they sayl "Guns don't kill people,,," Now I understand how call in shows work; sometimes use them myself. Fact is, that what is said over the radio or printed as opinion or a "poll" in the news 99 percent of the time won't hold water. The reason is real simple. Just like hunting, an extraordinary amount of work is required to properly conduct a poll. Just like hunting, if you don't do this work the results are not predictable. I understand your logic; however, think through this. A rifle is a long range weapon. If a rifle hunter can't or hasn't studied his target something is wrong. Maybe that arguement needs to be thought out as well .

[zfish]

Ive been watching the thread and it keeps going up and down. Common guys we don't need to slam one another. Now if someone is posting wrong info sure go ahead and send the correct one. I myself have put up info only to realize it had changed. There is however no reason for us to slam one another we are here for a good time and to learn what we can.. If you have an opinion by all means please post it unless you intend on slamming some one. Also I know some of the post arent meant to upset anyone when trying to put correct info up to make sure you read the post in full before you get upset and try to think where the other person is comming from.

Here is my arguement for the post. Crossbows are leagal in Ohio and I have every right to use one. I shouldnt be ashamed by using it and people should not try to make me feel ashamed. I have 2 crossbows and a compound and I prefer my crossbow it is my choice and I use it because that is what I feel the most comfortable with. I dont know why people have the saying Walmart slobs. I shop at Walmart on a regular basis just because of the prices. Heck Both of my crossbows came from there, and I target practice on a continuess basis at 40 yards in within a 1 to 2" difference. Does this mean because I shop at Walmart and bought my bow there that I am one of these instant slobs? I think not gentlemen so lets get back to good old post insted of slamming.
Thanks all
Mike Z

[Nut]

zfish I am with ya also.. in fact I was at WalMart yesterday and made a few purchases:eek:
I support everybody's hunting methods if legal. What they think about how and what I use to hunt really doesn't matter to me either ;) I just think that it all comes down to selfishness and that alone. When people have that mindset it isnt worth the time and effort to debate the issue.:D

[pawclaws]

You know the one thing about this thread that really bothers me is that I don't know why it was started in the first place. Where is the fella who started it? Why no comments? As an advisory to the initiator of the poll: Be very cautious about any conclusions you may draw from your poll because the very most that may be said is this: "The question; ("Do you believe that cross bows are cheating?") was posed and "X" percent resonded YES and "X" percent responded NO. Any other conclusions can not be substantiated.

[pawclaws]

Nut, I don't care what you hunt with. In this state it isn't legal to ugly them to death! Please wear a mask!! ;)

[Pike]

lundy, You might want to brush up on your reading skills, I never said that hunters of PA. Have no say, Please go back and slowly re read my post. Also, your right about never say never!! that is a long time, but I think you got the point i was trying to make. Like I said earlier ,I would never judge or put down a hunter in OH. who chose to hunt with a crossbow because, one i am a guest in your state and feel i do not have the right. and crossbows are currently a legal weapon. And I would never say anything negative to a hunter, who is enjoying their time field legally. Also, I really do not know about Inlines or flintlocks in PA. since I do not hunt witha muzzleloader and I spent all my free time fighting to keep crossbows out of PA. and trying to get AR's passed. I can find ou for you if you want. I just didnt keep up with, ML issue. Pike

[zfish]

Lol thats a new one. Yes nut if you are going to ugly them to death please wear a mask :):D Now I dont mind playing around that can get quite fun lol . Dont worry nut its all in good fun.. Besides with the name Nut you should expect to get picked on a little :D

[Pike]

Paw claws, I agree 100% that you should identify your target 100% before you release or pull the trigger, but shooting a buck that has a broken tine and isnt long enough to make the buck AR. legal is not the same thing as the Ohio Crossbowhunter who didnt Indentify his target and shot and killed his own son. becauise the rifle hunter identified the deer as a whitetail buck and it appeared to be legal when it ran past him at full speed and 60 yards away. Im not defending the rifle hunters , infact I havent hunted with any type of gun in PA. in 9 seasons now. Pike

[pawclaws]

Originally posted by Pike
...and I spent all my free time fighting to keep crossbows out of PA. ...Pike [/B]

Pike; Why??? :confused:

[Pike]

paw claws, the main reason is because PA. we already have 287,000 bowhunters, and we have 822,000 gun hunters. we already shoot 2 many pre rut bucks as it is in PA. Even though crossbows are working out great in OH. OH only has 300,000 gun hunters, in 2 years we would probably double the amount of bowhunters and we already take too many pre rut bucks out of the herd, and with the legalization of the crossbow it greatly increase that problem. My other problem, is that crossbows give their users an unfair advantage over real bow users. The reason being is that the hardest part of the hunt is the drawing, holding completely steady and waiting for a good shot and then releasing in the presance of a live animal. If the deer decides to stop behind a tree right when you reach full draw you are screwed, if the deer see's you draw your bow your done. And anyone that does not agree with these facts does not have very much experience attempting it in the presance of live deer..The use of a crossbow eliminates these challanges from the hunt. Pike

[ShoreBoundOne]

Amen to Zfish and Nut...i promised myself i would stop posting top this thread about 3 posts back ;)....and Cudos to Walmart for providing some of us more Fiscaly challenged folks a place to buy gear at a reasonable price :D ....Thats my last word hehehe..

Mitch

[Nut]

I do wear a mask...otherwise I would really be in trouble for killing over the legal limit:D :eek: ;)

[pawclaws]

Pike, I don't have a problem with your statement unless you can't answer my question. My question is; "Why?"

[pawclaws]

LOL at Fred!! :D Hey buddy, have you told these guys what your name was before it was "Nut"? :D

[Pike]

Pawclaw, please see my response to your question above. Pike

[pawclaws]

Originally posted by Pike
paw claws, the main reason is because PA. we already have 287,000 bowhunters, and we have 822,000 gun hunters. we already shoot 2 many bucks as it is in PA. Even though crossbows are working out great in OH. OH only has 300,000 gun hunters, in 2 years we would probably double the amount of bowhunters and we already take too many pre rut bucks out of the herd, and with the legalization of the crossbow it greatly increase that problem. BRB

It sounds as if you believe that gun hunters, bow hunters, and cross bow hunters are all diffrent people which are added to an aggragate total which equals: Too Many Hunters. I'm not sure that this is true. I think it is more likely that only a few hunters isolate themselves to a single method or weapon. At least that has been my experience with the hunters I know across the US. With respect to doubeling the number of bow hunters in two years, are you thinking that gun hunters who presently do not use bows and current bow hunters as well would begin to use a cross bow and therefore increase the herd pressure? Why and how would the legalization of cross bows increase the number of pre-rut bucks taken out of the herd?

[Pike]

pawclaw, Because it would permit many rifle hunters who either do not have the time to become proficiant with a bow, or do not want to find the time to be proficiant, to go to the range sight in the scope and be out in the woods crossbow hunting. Bucks are easiest to harvest during the rut and by adding even another 150,000 more hunters in the woods at the time would increase an already big problem. We are trying to harvest less bucks not more. If you do not see the danger in over harvesting the bucks because we have 522,000 more gun hunters in PA, than you do in OH. there really isnt anything else I can add. Pike
P.S> YOU Also missed my other reason that I posted when I came back from stepping away from my pc

[pawclaws]

Originally posted by Pike
[B My other problem, is that crossbows give their users an unfair advantage over real bow users. The reason being is that the hardest part of the hunt is the drawing, holding completely steady and waiting for a good shot and then releasing in the presance of a live animal. If the deer decides to stop behind a tree right when you reach full draw you are screwed, if the deer see's you draw your bow your done. And anyone that does not agree with these facts has never drawn held at full draw and then wait holding steday in order to make a good shot until the animal presents a perfect ehtical shot has not attempted to do this very many times in the presance of live deer..The use of a crossbow eliminates these challanges from the hunt. Pike [/B]

I can't agree with your "facts" because they are not facts, they are opinions. Each potential mis-fortune you have mentioned is also experienced by the gun hunter and I would have to assume the cross bow hunter as well. When the gun is raised to the shoulder and the deer bolts, or when the deer decides to stop behind a tree, or when the deer detects other movement or scent, or the sound of the safety clicking, etc. I don't see any unfair advantage offered by a cross bow. I do see greater ease of operation as with a firearm or in my case a sling (I just happen to be very good with a sling.) But still occasionally a thong will break and the stone flys askew, or a stone will disintegrate in flight, or the sling will contact a twig or branch and wrap around . I suppose all forms of hunting devices have their drawbacks. A couple of years ago my cousin's firing pin fell out during an attempt at a nice doe. I suppose it is possible that a cross bow aimed at a steep down hill angle might be subject to gravity and the loss of a bolt. I don't know for certain. I would like to know that is why I asked in the first place. Also Pike the use of the term "REAL" bow hunters I think is revealing. Think about it. Thank you for your reply.

[pawclaws]

OK Pike, after reviewing, I think I've got it. Let me summarize: I think that what you mean is that you believe that allowing cross bows in the field will permit gun hunters to hunt during bow season. I further think that you do not want more hunters in the field during bow season. Does that pretty much get it?

[Pike]

Paws and claws, If what i have stated was not facts!! Disabled hunters that are unable to hunt with a bow, would also not be able to hunt with a crossbow, and as you know many disabled hunters are capable of hunting with a crossbow but are not capable of hunting with a bow,. CHECK & MATE !! Pike

[Pike]

paws, once againyou do not get it!! I welcome each and every gun hunter to take up bow hunting, they have just as much right to bow hunt as I do!! The problem is we in PA. do not consider a crossgun a bow, thus they should be used in the gun season with the other guns. though you will never see a crossgun huntedr hunt witha crossbow in guns season because, they only want to use a crossgun when it gives them an advantage, and using a crossgun in gun season would put them at a disadvantage. Like I stated before becauseI am a guest in your state I do not feel I should have a say of what should be considered a bow and what should not be considered a bow, Why do yoy feel that you should have a say in PA.? Pike

[pawclaws]

Pike I haven't a clue what you mean with regard to your statement concerning disabled hunters using cross bows. King's Bishop to Queen's Knight four capturing Queen's Pawn and placing Queen's Rook in jeopardy. :) With regard to your invitation to gun hunters to become bow hunters and concerning advantages and disadvantages during various gun and bow seasons; can I assume that if there were only one season called "Deer Season" that you would hunt with a gun? By the way the term, like it or not , is "Cross Bow". The use of the term cross gun I believe is irritating and demeaning to cross bow hunters which is something I would expect from a smart mouthed elitist rather than an intelligent, informed, concerned individual such as yourself. Please don't use it Pike, it is little better than name calling.

[Pike]

If you were offended I apologize, but you started it by claiming my post was B.S., and calling me a liar, and not honest, is probably worse than calling a crossbow a gun. IMO. Also i have not hunted witha gun in PA. or MD. for 9 seasons now. because I prefer to hunt with a bow, even in gun season. but that is just how I prefer to hunt. I did however shoot a doe with a shotgun the first day of shot gun season in OH. because the landowner wanted doe's shot so I was more than happy to help out. Pike

[pawclaws]

Pike I don't call folks liars and I have not called your posts BS. I understand that often things can get fouled up as to meaning and understanding. That is why I do my best to only say "exactly" what I mean. I'll try harder. I appreciate your apology although I am not personally offended. I am not yet a cross bow hunter. I see you would choose to use a bow rather than a gun because that is what you like to hunt with. If we in Ohio only had "Deer" season, I would probably use a pistol because that is what I prefer to hunt with. I would much rather hunt for a couple of months rather than a single week. You can take your time that way, not get so much in a rush, and enjoy the outings so much more.

[vc1111]

"We had no problem making sacrifices to improve the health of the herd and the habitat."

Your experience was very different than mine. I heard next to nothing but complaints about the idea that a muzzleloader season would be inserted smack dab in the middle of the first bow season in PA. I also heard complaints about the Jr/Sr rifle hunt.

As to the idea of a "vote," you were able to attend hearings, that's about it. No issued were placed on a ballot for election day decision making.

The fact is that you are splitting hairs...the point is that numbers of hunters carry a great deal of weight.

Bow hunters do NOT thin the herds in numbers anywhere approaching the numbers of gun hunters. That is a plain and simple fact. The same facts apply in Ohio. If the bow hunter numbers dwindle, the gun hunters will carry more weight as far as seasons, tags, limits, etc.

In general, cross bows are NOT commonly used in PA. Of course, there are minor exceptions on a regional and special needs basis, for example, hunters that have certain disabilities can apply for cross bow permits in PA.

This thread and another that is on the board concurrently have an agenda...that is to restrict access to cross bow hunting.

As others have said on both threads, the in-fighting among the hunting community is counterproductive.

The attitude that "crossbow hunters are slob hunters" is elitist, condescending, and unfounded.

Lastly, the idea of antler restriction is PA remains one of the most controversial changes to take place in PA in the last 30 years or so. Walk into any PA archery or gun shop on any given seasonal day and you will hear complaints about that and the changes to the archery season.

I respectfully but strongly disagree with your assertion that the changes were welcomed with open arms "for the good of the herd." That is a huge stretch of reality. The overwhelming majority of the PA hunters did not even attend the informational meetings that were scheduled. They simply watched as the regs went through the process of change.

I would also add that the tragedy involving the accidental shooting of the boy was remarkable because of its rarity, not because it is in any way indicative of what happens on an everday basis with one choice of hunting implement or another. Your implication of the weapon as typifying the hunter is like condemning the gun used in a crime instead of the criminal. It is a attempt to add weight to an argument that no thinking person would swallow.

I would add that I shoot only a compound bow. Never owned a cross bow, probably never will. But then I don't shoot ducks either, but I respect the rights of hunters to do so with whatever means is legal in Ohio.

As Pawclaws as stated very articulately, the choice of slanderous and demeaning terms for our fellow hunters serves only to divide our numbers and create an atmosphere ripe for those that would love to see hunting end once and for all.

[Pike]

Paws, Correct me if Im wrong, but!! You said and I quote"""""""Do you think that anyone should be proud of calling a cross bow hunter a "slob" hunter; especially in front of the youngsters who may not yet be capable of sorting through fact and BS? For instance Pike says up above there that deer antler restrictions were voted against by the overwhelming majority of gun hunters. Now if I were a child I might believe that . However I am an adult that knows that voting is done by secret ballot and that it is not possible to discern the voter's choice of weaponry nor the content of his individual ballot. Pike

[vc1111]

Shoreboundone...you are missing the point, or more likely I did not present my idea clearly.

From the website you provided on PA regs:
"Archery Seasons: Long, recurve and compound bows using arrows tipped with broadheads having an outside diameter of at least 7/8-inch with no less than two cutting edges, which shall be in the same plane throughout the length of the cutting surface. Persons hunting deer in archery seasons may not possess a firearm of any type."

Crossbows CANNOT be used during archery season.

Here is the only non-medical exception in the entire state of PA and it is only on a regional basis for archery season.

Special Regulations Areas: (all of Allegheny, Bucks, Chester, Delaware, Montgomery and Philadelphia counties) Muzzleloading long guns, bow and arrow, manual or auto-loading shotguns, 20 gauge or larger, slugs or buckshot only; crossbows and .410 shotguns with slugs. Buckshot may not be used in Allegheny County. Only bows and arrows are permitted in Philadelphia County. Crossbows may be used in the two-week statewide concurrent antlered and antlerless deer season."

As I understand it these special areas are areas of dense population and/or very high deer populations which are under special management because the herd numbers are detrimental to the public and the herd itself.

We are discussing the archery season in Ohio on this thread. My reference was to the archery season in PA, and my point stands: You cannot use a crossbow in PA during the archery season. Pennsylvania clearly acknowledges that to control the herd numbers in those counties with special problems they must make it easier for hunters that for one reason or another are not interested in or able to learn to use compounds or other forms of traditional archery. Think about that...to control the herd, they are acknowledging that crossbow will help without sacrificing the issue of safey.

Also note that they DO NOT allow the use of rifles in those areas because of the human population densities, but THEY DO allow crossbows. Kind of tears up the weak arguments on this thread that crossbows are inherently more dangerous, or even the weaker argument that crossbow hunters themselves are more dangerous than anyone else.

These regulations validate my stand.

[pawclaws]

Yes, I said that. I meant that. That's why I said it. [ Well, "Do you think that anyone should be proud of calling a cross bow hunter a slob hunter?" This is a rhetorical interrogative staement posed to cause the reader to ask his or herself this question and thoughtfully reflect while discovering that it is probably not proper to call folks slob hunters simply because of their choice of hunting implement. The use of your presented example is to merely show that folks can and indeed need to think for themselves rather than blindly accepting statements at face value. Here is another example. Suppose just for the heck of it let's say I wanted to show that "Most Hunters believe that using a cross bow is cheating." I could go to a web site and conduct a pole. Regardless of how the pole turns out I can still support whatever I want. At the moment I might say either, "Fully a third of the individuals responding believe that the use of cross bows is cheating." or I might say; " At present nearly two thirds of those responding are in favor of using cross bows witrh a heated discussion underway!" In either case there is too much that is not explained and the reader must render sage wisdom and judgement to arrive at his or her own conclusion. That is caused by personal bias Pike and is very difficult to control especially when a person feels strongly one way or the other. That is why I kept asking you "why" here. That helps to get past the bias that one doesn't even know is present and to the root of the issue. Now, have I called you a liar? I think not. Have I called your post BS? No sir, I did not. I did use the phrase in the same sentence as your example; that's all.

[Pike]

vc111, 1st, I brought up the father and the son because paws, said there is no excuse for not identifying your target. as an example that I agree with him, but mistaken a buck with a broken point making it a sub AR legal buck, is completly different than the father who shot his son, because he failed to identify a person from a deer. Or the guy in PA sitting on his girlfriends back porch drinking beer and mistakes a small boy for a ground hog and shoots and kills the boy. What do you want me to do to be politically correct lie about what weapon the father was using and the guy from PA. also . I uesd that accident for a prime example of what identifying your target means!!
2nd. evry hunter in the state of PA. had the opportunity to call or write a letter to their commissioner, Each Commissioner added up each for and against phone call and letter and testified at the hearings of how many for and against calls and leetters they recieved!!! And also they stated the most used reasons for AR. or against AR. If a hunter did not take the time to call or write a letter, or attend a seminar ,in which DR. Alt did 4 seminars in My county alone over a 2year period, than the hunter doesnt deserve to have their opinion heard!! But every hunter was giving many chances over the 2 year period to have their say. Also each and every hunter was more than welcome to come and testify at any of the hearings, and they stayed until the last person was heard. Also many Org's took votes from the members, and the reps from those orgs testified on behalf of their membership, You claimed that PA. Bowhunters did not have a say!!! And I say we did!! we just won the biggest battle of our lifes by keeping the crossbow out of PA. so I say we have a say!! and we did make a huge impact. Also I have never met one bow hunter that didnt approve of any disabled person being able to hunt with a crossbow during the bow season!! Crossbows have been legal for the truly disabled for many years in PA. and I hope they can hunt with them for many yuears in the future by the way we were also able to keep the draw lock out of PA aswell. If you do not believe that is up to you but all you have to do is call any commissioner, and ask them if everyhunter in the stste of PA. had a chance to vote!!! like I said if they didnt take the time to vote they gave up their right to be heard!! Also ask them what were the results for and against AR. and also the early guns seasons. AIf they are not available they wiill call you back with 2 days time. but do not take my word for it take theirs!! I never called a crossbow hunter a slob or anything negative, But I do have right not to want, them to be made legal in PA. and I have every right to make my opinion heard!! Pike

[Pike]

Paws, the only hunters I have ever called slob hunters were Poachers!! and I didnt descriminate by what weapon they chose to poach with, show me were I called any one a slob hunter!! Pike

[vc1111]

Pike, I appreciate your response. Your point is taken about those that did not voice their concerns, however most did not. That was hardly an election however, just a chance to comment.

You are distorting what I said about disabled hunters and crossbows. I am not implying that anti-crossbow proponents would prevent the disabled access to that implement. I am saying, what was validated at the website listed above, that crossbows cannot be used during archery, except for disabled hunters or hunters with special medical type permits of some sort. Don't read anything into that, it is merely the facts as they stand.

Also note that I did not mention you or anyone else specifically as calling crossbow hunters slobs. However, unless I am mistaken that expression has been used on another thread that has the same anti-crossbow hunter flavor as this one...only under the guise of mandating "hunter education" as a way of keeping crossbow hunter numbers from growing. Other slanderous expression were also used. They also cited safety as a primary concern...safety is a non-issue in bow hunting in general, there are relatively very, very few accidental deaths in bow hunting. As I have clearly stated any reference to a death is bowhunting is remarkable only because of its rarity...it is a non-issue.

I am still awaiting anyone to provide hard facts to back up the insinuation that crossbows create meaningful and relevant safety issues. Until that can be done, such comments and references about rare examples have no credibility or weight in these discussions.

[ShoreBoundOne]

I quote VC
"Crossbows are NOT legal in Pennsylvania, and if the logic on this thread is true, that would mean less bow hunters in that state, right?"

Simply pointing out that was a incorrect statement. I think Pike, VC and Paws need to meet in the Campfire...ill moderate lol:D whos with me?

Mitch

[pawclaws]

Thanks Pike. Sounds to me like the Commissioners did their job properly. I know you didn't use the term "slob" related to cross bow hunters. Someone else did that earlier. I think we "all" know what a slob hunter is and what it takes to become one. Funny, as much as most of us would like to see the numbers of hunters increase very few of us will tolerate poachers, law breakers, fence stompers, trash droppers, etc in order to see that happen.

[Nut]

See what happens when ya leave the house.:D ;) A lot of good posting done.
I started out with a crossbow. I enjoyed shooting it and still do. However it made me extremely curious into how I would do with a compound bow. So I bought one . I went to a instructor at a gun /sporting goods store and had it set up for me. I got some instructions and was taken to the range. I was shooting pretty good within 20 minutes. I was confident to make a kill at 20 yards. (Still am) That was 2 1/2 years ago. I practice as much as I can. This has led to my oldest using a compound bow. My 2 youngest also are learning with a traditional longbow. They also have a recurve bow. The wife is unable to draw a compound bow back because of medical reasons so she uses a crossbow.
Since the crossbow was legal here it was the main factor in having 2 new bowhunters in the family. Soon to be 2 more.


Yea pawclaws...Nut is the short version of my screen name at other boards. "WorthlessNut" is what my Dad calls a "Buckeye"
;) :D


btw I just got back from "The Lord Of the Rings/The Two Towers"

There was plenty of bows and crossbows in the movie. Not once did I see a compound bow:p :eek:

[pawclaws]

I knew that Nut! :D

[vc1111]

Nut you make a very interesting observation.

The use of a crossbow can lead hunters into the other types of archery. Sounds like a good thing to me.

Shoreboundone, I'll meet with these fine guys at a campfire anytime, but only if you show up and help cook the burger and backstraps.

As much as I might disagree with these guys on any given issue, I respect and admire their passion and their conviction.

In the end, we are all equal in the woods or on the water. The fish and game have a way of humbling us all, and in doing so it joins us together.

[Ðe§perado™]

Well Put vc1111 in saying.

In the end, we are all equal in the woods or on the water. The fish and game have a way of humbling us all, and in doing so it joins us together.
;)

[Lundy43123]

Hey Pike,

This is Lundy. The guy you said that needs to brush up on his reading skills.

You're right, I was wrong.

I had my granddaugther reread your post to me s l o w l y as you suggested. She read so s l o w l y that by the time she reached the end of your post I found that I had forgoten what the point was you were trying to make.

Just kidding, I know your point.

:D Kim

[pawclaws]

OK guys; group hug and Nut would you lead us in "Cumbaya please?" Just kidding; it's bad enough to be associated with a group of bow hunters who may be mistaken for "men in tights" with feathers in their caps!! :D (Just kidding guys!) :rolleyes:

[zfish]

I'm actually impressed lol.. I've been out most of today fishing and just got caught up on all the posting and I have to say there are a lot of good points. For anyone interesed I didnt catch a thing I guess its why its called fishing instead of catching :). Keep up the good posting I love hearing both sides.

[Pike]

Paw, VC, Lundy, Im glad there isnt any hard feelings!! I would also like to say I have nothing against crossbow hunters, they are no better or worse than any other group. A hunter that does not possess ethics, will be a slob hunter regardless of what weapon they choose to carry afield. I forgot to mention the biggest reason of why I am against crossbows being made legal in PA. Paw's one comment, reminded me. The way i see it, if crossgows are legalized, the big losers, will not be the bow hunters or crossbow hunters, it will be the Rifle hunters who do not care to bow hunt with either. and also still the majority of hunters, Like I stated earlier we have 287,000 bow hunters without the xbow, according to xbow manufacturers they believed that our bowhunting ranks would double if the xbow was legalized. Currently bowhunter already harvest 20% of the total buck population, if we doubled the amount of our bowhunters, im sure our buck harvest would double to 40% aswell. So the rifle hunters who prefer not to bowhunt with either bow because they love to rifle hunt with there grand fathers deer rifle, will have 40% of the bucks already harvested before they get their season. remember the early gun season's are for doe only. The rifle hunters will still be the majority, and also the group with the most tradition and heritage out of any hunters in our state. please remember also, that we have a 2 week rifle season , and rifle's are far more efficent at harvest ing deer than shotguns. If Xbows are legalized our 2 week rifle season will surely be changed to a season sort of like what you have in OH. and im not saying this to be selfish, because I have not rifle hunted in PA. in 9 seasons now, I just do not want to see the majority of our hunters, with the oldest and most tradition get the shaft because some wanted to be able to hunt with a new type of weapon that doesnt have any tradition. And the tradition we have here in PA. is the thing I love most about hunting in PA. Im sure OH. has very similar traditions, so I think you might understand were im comming from. Pike

[Lundy43123]

Pike,

I can appreciate your passion in fighting for what you believe in. I certainly want you standing beside me to preserve and protect hunters rights.

Just for your information I don't hunt with a crossbow. I am a past president and lifetime member of Ohio's largest bowhunting club in Central Ohio if not all of Ohio. I have been a member of the the Ohio Bow Hunters Association for the last 20+ years. I was a factory staff shooter for Browning Archery for 6 years. I have bow hunted many, many different states including PA.

I have been watching and listening to the crossbow debate for 25 years here in Ohio. The passions run high and the discussions can get pretty ugly at times.

I have not seen any reduction in the quality of the hunting experience or the deer population or quality of the deer herd since the introduction of the crossbow in Ohio. In fact the deer herd size keeps getting larger and the quality is still very good.

When crossbows were first legalized in the entire achery season I was dead against them because of the tradition of bowhunting and the fears of the woods being as crowded during bow season as they are during our gun season. These fears have been unfounded.

I later came to the conclusion that I am pro hunters rights, and that I will not selectivly support only segments of our hunting society based on thier equipment choice. I am for all hunters.

I fully understand and support your right's of free thoughts and speech. No hard feelings here.

KIm

[vc1111]

Thank, Pike.

Merry Christmas and have a happy New Year.

I always respect the passion and fire of others, whether I agree with them or not.

This is a two-sided issue. Yours is not without merit. Generally when there is conflict, there is truth on boths sides.

God Bless you and your families. I hope your holiday is a fine one.

[bonasachasa]

when in rome do as the romans do. in ohio it aint cheatin in michigan without a phisical handicap it is . in any sport the rules vary from place to place.when something is accomplished within the rules it is not cheatin. but the thing i see from this debate more then anything is that the elitetist attitude is our largest enemy of sportsman.just ask the first indians , had they not had wars amoungst themselves maybe they would have united in time to drive the white man back to europe

[lureboy98]

I don't think it is cheating to shoot a crossbow. I could've shot the deer my dad shot if I had been using a compound. I was facing my tree and I couldn't shoot it because the crossbow was too wide and the tree got in the way.

[Stacker]

IMHO using a crossbow without practice is wrong! Not cheating, just wrong. A crosbow is a legal weapon on Ohio, therefore it's not "cheating". Many crossbow hunters I know seem to think that they are shooting bullet not a broadhead and will take questionable if not unethical shots. If for any reason I am physically unable to shoot my recurve or compound I would consider a top quality crossbow as my weapon of choice.

[Basementdweller]

I heard that they were gonna move the compound and traditional bow guys out of early archery season so they wouldn't interfere with the xbow guys.:D :D :D After all it is the main tool of harvest during the archery season.:rolleyes:


I am kidding

[Basementdweller]

Practice with a crossbow???? It is the most boring of weapons, it is a killing machine. I have a crossbow and shoot probably 20 bolts a year including hunting shots. I shoot a handfull a couple of weeks before season and one or two a week to verify my scope is still sighted.

Is it unethical, heeeeeck no. I verify the performance of my weapon and know its limitations.

My new compound has a tuning problem so I havent hunted with it yet. Well it maybe a tuning problem????? Could be the guy punching the trigger or flinching or something....not quiet sure. Just need to put somemore time in with it.

[lureboy98]

I shot my crossbow maybe 30 times this year, making sure I could keep it within a circle that would consistute to the kill zone on a deer. My dad, with the compound he's had for at least 15 years (only has like 30% letoff) did not practice before hunting season and shot his deer through both lungs on the first shot. I have mixed feelings about this, but I've decided if you can still kill the deer by hitting it in the vitals with no practice, that is your decision, but I know I feel better when I practice.

[pawclaws]

Boring? Basement Dweller, open up a window and let some sunshine in. The most exciting part of hunting is sitting quietly; which could potentially be pretty boring. If you lack excitement, try wild boar with a spear. Yes please do practice with your cross bow, shotgun, recurve, compound, pea shooter, etc. Make sure you can hit your target at will or stay out of my woods and the public areas which I support as well.

[Pike]

Lureboy, if your dad is too lazy to practice he should stay out of the woods, and take up a sport like checkers!! Pike

[lureboy98]

He usually practices, I think this was the only year he didn't. He doesn't shoot too many because my mom doesn't like hunting but he couldn't pass up this one.

[george tinkham]

No its not cheating.Its being fair to the animal they hunt by choosing the weapon that the feel they can shoot the best.They will eventually come around when they gain more confidence and challenge themselves more...george

[rjolenic]

I like that point George, I'm with you on this issue! I think a hunter should choose the weapon that produces his best shot on animal.

rjo

[atrkyhntr]

Here is my simple reason for allowing crossbows so PLEASE hear me out...
We know that disabled hunters can once again hunt with them and I do not think anybody has a problem with that...

My question is would anyone here turn away the older generation of hunters who can no longer pull back and hold any other style of bow?

These are the same people: are fathers, uncles or whom have you that chose to lead us into the outdoors and taught us how to love and cherish all the creator has given us, or who ever you belive ;) ...

Would or should we turn away are youth who when lucky enough to pass a hunters safety course must npow wait till strong enough to shoot another style of bow?

How about the hunters who, belive it or not, have no place to practice or notime for any number of reasons, should they too be turned away from enjoying bow season?

There are those who would like to see crossbows used only during gun season so I say again... should we turn away those mentioned above to enjoy bow season but only for one week of the year?

I could be wrong but I would hope we can share the woods and fields much better then that with our hunting brothers :D

We really need each other more now then ever before and more in the future too!!!

[Ðe§perado™]

I feel using the excuse I don't have time to shoot is BS. You owe it to the game you hunt to be able to kill the animal quickly. But no matter what is said there will be complaining and whining from both sides , so i guess it's best to let it just die.:rolleyes:

[atrkyhntr]

Hey Ðe§perado sometimes belive it or not its a viable reason...
I feel using the excuse I don't have time to shoot is BS.
I started using a crossbow when my L& was broken (took several years and sveral Dr's to find that out!!!)
I simply could not shoot amy of my other bows and purchased a crossbow to be able to continue hunting...
Then my friend came the KIDS and I mean KIDS... We have 6 children with two sets of twins.. brother talk about ni=otime to practice which means you are right...
You owe it to the game you hunt to be able to kill the animal quickly. Man you are right when I did have a little time to shoot I was not happy with shooting at all... I always shoot one arrow at a distance of 20-35 yards just like if I was hunting without any practice shots and I would not be in the kill zone 100% of the time :( Now after I shot for awhile I'd be right where I was before but not on that very 1st shot... Now you must agree a man with a wife and al them kids just does not have the time to practice proper like we all know we should. My wife also lost a set of twins at 5 mos preg so I took total control of all house hold chores whenever she was expecting again so as not to chance another heart wrenching loss :(
Thus I can see where there just is not enough time in the day or week or month sometimes... I also was working 2 jobs and running my guide service and online outdoor networks :eek:

[Ðe§perado™]

Sounds like you were to busy to do anything at all.:(

[atrkyhntr]

You know what the funny thing is???
I had the house spotless and all the clothes clean, no piles in basement like before... All meals from daylight to dark prepared along with dishes done and still worked two jobs... Now after wife go tback on her feet I let her go for awhile and then said look if I could do all that and still hold two jobs you should be able to keep up when that is all you do... hnmmn
So now I'll find out what child support is sometime around Jan 16th !!! :(
THANK GOD for pre-nups <----- LMAO ( for now :eek: )

[pawclaws]

Originally posted by atrkyhntr
Would or should we turn away are youth who when lucky enough to pass a hunters safety course must npow wait till strong enough to shoot another style of bow?

How about the hunters who, belive it or not, have no place to practice or notime for any number of reasons, should they too be turned away from enjoying bow season?


Yes I would refuse and should refuse folks the opportunity to hunt who are not competetent with their weapon regardless of the reason. As they say; "practice makes perfect!" Hunters who don't have a place to practice simply need to find one. Folks who aren't strong enough to draw a bow need to wait until they are before they use the bow. If they wish to use a crossbow in the mean time I have no problem as long as they master the weapon just as they must a gun, rifle, bow, or spear.

[lureboy98]

well said pawclaws.

[george tinkham]

no no an no

[atrkyhntr]

Yes I would refuse and should refuse folks the opportunity to hunt who are not competetent with their weapon regardless of the reason. As they say; "practice makes perfect!" Hunters who don't have a place to practice simply need to find one. Folks who aren't strong enough to draw a bow need to wait until they are before they use the bow. If they wish to use a crossbow in the mean time I have no problem as long as they master the weapon just as they must a gun, rifle, bow, or spear.
Being qualified to hunt with a crossbow takes little more then sighting it in and then shelving it till right before the season then at that time check your zero... It is that simple;)

Folks who aren't strong enough to draw a bow need to wait until they are before they use the bow.
Some hunters may never be able to draw a bow do to various reasons... 'nough said...

If they wish to use a crossbow in the mean time I have no problem as long as they master the weapon just as they must a gun, rifle, bow, or spear
Very true... agreed

Hunters who don't have a place to practice simply need to find one
Come live in any BIGT city and you'll see many times practice is not an option thus another good reason to use a cross bow...

I trully do not like seeingin-fighting amoung hunters... very sad indeed...:(

[pawclaws]

Big cities can be a nuisance Clyde; no doubt about it! Can't even find any game! :eek: Tough for a hunter to take the time and get away and be able to practice. I think it's a Patrician conspiracy to keep the poor man working in the slave pits of the metropolis and out of the lands populated by fresh air, sunshine, big trees, deer, and such so it can be saved for the king and the king's court! :D What is it Drew Carey sings; "Cleveland Rocks?" LOL

[Tailfeathers]

Are x-bows easier to use then compounds –yes
Is a compound with all the gadgets easier the a basic simple one – yes.
Is a compound easy then a recuve –yes
Recurve easier then long –yes.

So what’s the point;
X-bow hunters are taking to many deer?
The woods are to crowded with hunters during bow season?

Or we just need to feel better then someone else?

There is a lot more to hunting then being a good shot.

I know a couple of traditional bow hunters, that truly great shots, that I wouldn’t let in camp with me on a bet.


A slob hunter is a slob hunter. It doesn’t matter what weapon they choose.

[pawclaws]

Yep, I think attitude and performance are much more important than tehcnique choices. If a hunter has his "stuff" together the proper decisions will be made so why should anyone rag on them becsause of the weapon used? I'll bet Clyde has seen "every" kind of hunter and will kick the bums out of camp regardless of weapon season! Hey Ohio Sportsman, when you guys going to make me that white ball cap?? :D

[george tinkham]

and guess what...look at the numbers ,it seems the smallest group complains the most.well thats ok butt they got to remember they are not the only fish in the pond.i would venture to say out of ALL the compound hunters in ohio,i very high percntage care less about xbows in ARCHERY season.an better yet a high percentage uses a xbow AND gun too.people that belong to archery clubs are in the minority.these are the ones with the "we want our own season attitude".people in orginizations think they know it all,some are very knowlegable.most know bout the same or even less then those not in clubs when it comes to HUNTING.i have really been disapointed last yr, in some things i have seen an some things i have just recently learned on another site.mant trads sort of make some rules of ethics to fit them...if a compounder/gun hunter/xbower did the same thing these same individuals label them a slob...i am quietly slipping into the realm of being a loner that hunts with a recurve cause thats what a basically have used most my life

[pawclaws]

Yep George, the recurve is a beautiful piece of equipment! Can you imagine thinking back to the first two or three guys that saw one? Man, I'll bet they were some kind of super impressed! I guess it took a while for them to get the danged thing to operate properly, but afterward; they must have just loved it! Still today it is something special. More than this man can handle too, but; I really do admire a proficient archer. :D

[george tinkham]

if you give a guy a recurve who has never seen one before.sure he will admire those lucious,mouth watering curves...then he strings it backards...

[pawclaws]

I can see how that could happen!:D Wonder how many the inventors busted before they got it right!:cool:

[atrkyhntr]

If you sling an arrow with an amount of skill within your own abilities then I would place you in a class called "bow hunter" if not then all you are is an arrow slinger---> hoping/wishing for success after you let an arrow fly:(
No matter what your choice of bow may be...

[pawclaws]

Yep! Kind of like shooting at something moving behind a bush!:eek:

[Nut]

Yea guys ..all good points. That is why I only consider myself as a hunter. No other classification is needed for me.:D

[pawclaws]

Fred we all know you are a classification all by yourself!! :D

[george tinkham]

right on nut

[Thunderflight]

I consider myself to be a slob hunter. Especially since I don't have a problem with hunting over bait, using scents or anyone who uses a crossbow....;)

TF

[george tinkham]

someone once said i am confuse an dont havr a clue,over my belief on this issue.i dont understan why so mant trads cant understand this.just cause i shoot a trad. bow dont mean i got to be xactly like the others.

[atrkyhntr]

:confused:

[Thunderflight]

:rolleyes:

[Nut]

Yep Phil ... You are right on that.

:D ;)

[pawclaws]

Hey Fred, when are the IHLA dues due? (Or is that doo doo?) :D

[Basementdweller]

Just merely for discussion sake lets take the ethical hunter part the other way.


Reading the arguments posted here every one seems to feel they are ethical, moral and humane hunters. Keeping with the ultimate preditor being fair to the game thought process. Should we not be using the best tools for the job? Undeniably the crossbow is superior to every other type of bow currently legal for deer hunting. You are wrong if you believe otherwise.

Sooooo, Then shouldnt the ethical moral humane hunter choice it.

Drawing the argument further......How moral, ethical and humane is shooting a low poundage, flint tipped arrow bow combo?????

Just wondering. Personally I use a compound, I have no problem with people who use a weapon different from mine.

[george tinkham]

that is a fair observation,even if you said recurve as a comparison...in order of effieciency (a better word than ethical)gun(most effeicient),xbow,compound,recurve,longbow,primitiv e bow,spear...this is common sense but it doesnt mean just because one carries a gun hes ethical or even very accurate,or knows his limitation or how to track or gut a deer.0n the other hand the primitive archer may be well practiced,know his equip.and know how far he is accurate at an STICK to that.it still comes down to the person BEHIND the weapon.a gun in the hand of someone who dont know how to shoot is worthless,same can be said for all other weapons used in hunting.the opposite can be said for the hunter that learns about his weapon,practices an knows his limitations.

[atrkyhntr]

still comes down to the person BEHIND the weapon
Agreed...

[vvarmitr]

Originally posted by Thunderflight
I consider myself to be a slob hunter.
TF
Ah ha, I knew it all along. :p

[Thunderflight]

It's not my fault. It's hereditary....

TF

[vvarmitr]

Oh, that's it Thunderfluff. Blame it on your Mom & Dad. Have you been studying Freud again?

[george tinkham]

freud???you must mean fred

[Thunderflight]

It's in our DNA.

Tf

http://www.exploringautism.org/genetics/images/gene.jpg

[vvarmitr]

i don't mean fred....aah....now you got me doing it. :mad: I mean Fred not Freud...er .... :o ....Not Fred, Freud. As in Sigmond Freud the father of psychoanalysis. Freud would say that your parents treated you in such and such a way & that is why you don't capitalize any of your letters, george. :p

[Nut]

My name is Fred and you can blame it on me.


Everybody else does anyways.;) :D

[vvarmitr]

Man, I wish you worked w/me, Fred Nut. Then maybe they'd get off my back.:(

[Thunderflight]

I also see dead people.

TF

[vvarmitr]

You're a Marine; you're suppose to dummy!

[george tinkham]

there is only one fred.fred bear

[Thunderflight]

I've seen him too. He ain't happy either.

TF

http://www.mitraditionalbow.com/images/fred_draw.jpg

[Thunderflight]

I prefer free wieghts over the crossbow.

TF

http://i.walmart.com/i/p/00/04/36/19/23/0004361923873_500X500.jpg

[george tinkham]

notice fred shoots cock feater out...

[7th]

I have to say that this has been the best reading that I have had on the web for some time.
First I will ask who is to tell me that I am not a hunter if I do not do it your way? Are we not hunters? If we stay with in the laws that are put for us are we not hunters?
So I love to use a 300 Win Mag to kill deer in WV, am I not a hunter, so I look for the day that a deer walks out in front of me at 400 yards am I not a hunter?
I will ask you this, Can you hit a 8" target at 400 yards? I know some that can not do it at 10 yards.
My 14 year old son (that is just getting into hunting) asked me for a x-bow to hunt with. Am I to tell him no? I do not hunt with a x-bow and do not chose to. I did love to like to use a comp bow but that was before I fell in love with Duck and Goose so am I not a hunter, now that I don't use a bow?
Get off it, if we are going to have a fight, let us all joine together and fight for each othere and not with the anti-s.
I will keep looking for that deer that walks out at 400 yards, Yes I can hit it. To date the best I have done is 321 yards by a range finder.
Will I get my boys a x-bow? Yes, if that is what it takes to get them into the woods.
Will I use a x-bow? Not if I can help it. But you never know?
Will I tell someone that they can not use something to hunt with? NO and the resone that I say this is:I have enough people that would take my rights to hunt away with out having someone that dose hunt voting to take them away from me.
I like to deer hunt, but this is not what I hunt for. I am there to have a good time with my family and friends. I don't care what gets them out there!~

[george tinkham]

i can say this 7th...i learned to hunt with a bow an arrah round 1965...white tails of course.i really never shot a gun til i went in the marines in 1968.actually i had a hard time learnin to shoot because i was afraid of the gun.of course we called em rifles.you took a pee with your gun accordin to marines.well i got good with a rifle eventually,but soon as i got out of the service i went down to swearigins sporting goods on court st.in athens an bought a brand new bear super kodiak and went huntin again.i wound up yrs. later in texas and a frend convinced me to get a rifle and join their deer lease.well i got a 30/30 and easily dropped deer within 20 yds.with it.then i went to a 30/06 and dropped deer consistantly at less than 25yds.i hunted the only way i knew which was bowhunting.the firearms guys could not believe this killin deer less than 50yds...they shot most theirs at more than 100...some they didnt find,we got all mine less than 30 yds from my stand.well no matter what weapon i used gun or bow,my ethics never changed,i still obeyed the law.i did not take risky shots,i never started poaching,etc.like i have always said,it aint the weapon thats the slob,its the person who has chosen to be a slob...and they are in all the types of hunting.

[7th]

George,
Your are right about the tacktics. The best thing that I can say that I have learned about hunting is to know your Limatations with the weapon that you are using.
I shot 500 yards and know that I can hit a deer size target at that range, would I do it? Well that is a dif facter. I have had leagel deer come out in area's that was under 500 yards and I know that I could have took the shot, but what stopped me was is everything right? If it was not I would not! That is why I have a 321 yard kill and no farther.
In the Army we would shoot for 1000 mt and that was one thing, I was told that it took more men off the line to hit a man then it did to kill one. With Deer I am looking to put it down as soon as I can and that is why I do all the shooting that I do. If I don't like one little thing then I will not shoot.

[pawclaws]

Swearingens! Spent many an hour there looking overthechemicals to addtomy experiments!!:D

[firtras]

O.K.. I read most of the pages in this post and my question is this: I own a compound but due to an accident at work I can not pull it back right now(maybe someday will be able to but maybe never again now that my wrist has 2 steele plates in it). I started bow hunting with a crossbow and it lead to my love for compounds and recurves ect. Now that I am injured I will be using a crossbow, but I am looking into buying a drawloc bow. This bow cam be easily pulled back similar to a crossbow but it is shot like a compound. It has safety features to prevent accidental or dry firing. Do you feel the same way about this bow as you do a crossbow? Yes and no answers are all that is needed since most everyone has voiced their opinion about the crossbow. Here is the website to check out the drawloc http://drawloc.com I am not trying to start anything just wanted to take a feeling poll on this bow.:cool:

[atrkyhntr]

Instead of "Bow Hunting"
maybe we should call it
"Arrow Hunting" and move on to the next question...;)
Hope that answers yours:D

[pawclaws]

Now you done it Clyde!! Next they'll be arguing over the ethics of hunting with a "bolt":rolleyes:

[george tinkham]

hmmmmm...you got me there.i personally do not see much difference between a xbow,a drawlock,or for that matter a compound.they are all a far cry from a recurve or a longbow.

[lakota]

I dont like a x-bow. Just my personal preferance. But to each his own. If a person uses a x-bow, and is legal, safe and ethical, then he is welcome in my opinion.

[jcdflint]

That's it!!!!!!

I'm sick of all the "B.S." I'm going to shoot a flint arrow (bolt) out of a Horton Hunter crossbow.

This way,all the people that thing I'm so great for shooting deer with a flint arrow will still love me and all the people that shoot crossbows will feel I'm with them too.

I really don't give a "HOOT" ( not Gibson) what everyone uses or or feels about their equipment. I just like being out in the woods with people that enjoy who they are!



Jeff Drown

[george tinkham]

right,heres another trad. that feels that way.

[Spitfire]

Come on fella's give it a rest!
This horse has been beaten enough for one year. The season is fast approaching so lets all go out and have a safe and successful year regardless of your choice of weapon.

Good Luck, Spitfire

[Caribou Dreamer2]

I'll second that spiter.

[jcdflint]

Me too!

[lakota]

I wasnt ripping on cross bow users simply beacause they use cross bows. I have used them, I just dont like them. I find them clumsy and cumbersome to carry. If for some reason the only way I can get out is with a cross bow you are dern straight I will use it.

The last thing I want to do is sound like a snob. In a similar situation on a fishing site, I was ripped on because I fish for steelhead with "barbaric spinning tackle" instead of fly tackle.

The last thing I wanted was to sound like one of those clowns.

Sorry if I ruffled any feathers(or vanes!:) )

[george tinkham]

me three

[Steve]

I think this topic has been beat to death and is in need of closing.