New to fly fishing

[Cardiackid74]

I am new to fly fishing. I bought a St. Croix 5/6wt rod and reel. I need to buy line and other accessories. What should I look at for trout fishing on the Chagrin River. I want to buy my 13 yr old son a set up also. Any suggestions that wont break the bank. Any help would be great.

I see I missed a fly fishing expo just a few weekends ago. Would have liked to attend.

Tim

[fishmerf]

CK,
There is a flyfishing show on Feb 10 in Cincy. Check out buckeyeflyfishers.com. There is also a show in Western Pa(Cranberry), but I am not sure of the dates. I'll check and see what I can find out.

merf

[Lance]

Welcome Tim!

If your looking to steelhead fish with that rod I would recommend going with a WF6 (weight forward #6) line, probably like an SA Air Cell Supreme and braided backing material. As far as the other goodies, the only things beyond flies that you will absolutely is some leader material and I would recommend some kind of strike indicator.

As far as a rig for your boy affordable varies from one person to the next. What kind of money are looking to spend and I could make some suggestions.

As for the types of flies that will work that's a wide open question. A lot of people live on streamers others egg flies and others nymphs. What part of NE Ohio are you from?

[Lance]

Here are a few options on flies:
Wooly Buggers (size #6-#12):
http://www.ohiosportsman.com/photopost/data/521/33IMGP0178.jpg

Stone Fly Nymphs (size #6 to $16):
http://www.ohiosportsman.com/photopost/data/521/33IMGP0177.jpg

Crystal Meth ( Size #12 )
http://www.ohiosportsman.com/photopost/data/521/33IMGP0111.JPG

As soon as I get my lighting set-up I can get more pics taken. Feel free to PM with any question you may have, I'm always glad to help out!

[Steve]

Welcome to your latest addiction. ;)

[Cardiackid74]

My wife is worried it will become an adiction. I already Deer hunt in all seasons. Turkey hunt, fish with spincast and baitcast set-ups. She said so now your going to go crazy on thisstuff. I have refused to go waterfowl hunting with my brother-in-law because I know I will be out buying decoys, new camo, and calls for that. One step at a time.

[Lance]

The trout they are catching are a lake run rainbow trout, which in turn are called "Steelhead". They get the name from the bright silver or "chrome" color they have when they first get back into the rivers.

As far as Rods and reels go, You can fight one on a 5-6 wt rod but you will DEFINITLEY have your hands full. What I'll do is lay out the "ideal" needs to fish steel and then hit them as a "what you can get by with" scenario. I will never tell someone that the HAVE to have a certain thing to participate, however I will outline the challenges you may experience

For an over-all rig 7-8 weight is ideal. There will be people that will tell you all you need is a 5 or 6 wt for steelhead but those people are usually A) the guys that have been doing it for a long time and have mastered handling large fish on light tackle or B) Guys that overworked the fish and will have dead fish floating downstream because they don't know any better. I've fly fished 30 years now and I use a 7 or 8 wt. Take it for what it's worth. ;)

As opposed to fly fishing for stream trout or bass, the most important peice of your rig for steelhead is your reel. Ideally you really need a fly reel with a solid drag system. These fish will run and run HARD on you. There are Large Arbor reels with good drags that will cost you as little as $60 such as the Okuma Integrity's or you can go all the way up to $300+ on the Ross's and such. If you don't want to spend that much you can go with a regular "Click and Prawl" drag style reel, these will cost you less and will work. The only "must have" if you go this route is you need to have an expose Rim so you can "Palm the reel" for drag as the Click and Prawl mechanism is not any more valuable than a card on a bicycle wheel. Palming the reel is just placing pressure with your hand to the exposed rim of the reel to act as a drag.

Moving on to the Rods. The most popular rods tend to be 9 1/2' - 10' models with a fighting butt by the guys that fish these fish alot however a 9' rod will do just fine. A fighting butt is an extension on the reel seat that allows you to get a little more leverage on the rod for handling the fish. Like the reels price ranges on the rods can very quite a bit. You can go $30-40 on your least expensive 9' rod $55-60 will get you into an entry level 9'6" rod but you will need to pop out for at least $150 to get into a 10' rod. After that the sky is the limit on prices.

For a bare bones get me on the water set-up you can proobably get away with $80 plus fly line. That should keep you afloat for a season or two before you decide if you like and want to upgrade. If you want to get into something that will keep you happy for a number of years, you can get a set-up a little bigger for around $120-130 for the rod and reel Plus fly line and tax.

As far as fly line, go weight forward line to match what ever weight rod/reel combo you buy. After that you will need to leaders. This is just monofiliment that you tie to the fly line, that you will tie your flies onto. While you can "get away with" using a length of straight 6lb test mono, it's easier to cast if you use a tapered set up. I tend to use a pre fabbed tapered leader then once it startes to get used I will just tie replacement "tippet sections" to replace the smaller diameter line. It's MUCH cheaper to maintain this way. I generally use tippet section in #4-#6 lb test. #8 if it's heavier stained water.

Onto to the other "goodies". A strike indicator is basically a "bobber" for fly fishing. They can be foam circles with sticky backing or regular cork or hardened foam that is slipped on over your leader. This will help alot in detecting the strikes. I use something called biostrike as it's smaller, but it's also more difficult to detect strikes with it.

A net would be a good thing however you can always beach the fish if you need to. You do land more with a net as you don't have to play them out as hard.

Nail clippers are just fine for taking care of any line trimming needs on the river. Forceps are a must, not only do they help unhook fish but they will come in hand to pinch down split shot instead of using your teeth. The bottles you see are usually fly floatant or possible zap a gap. Neither is a must have. 99.999% of your steel will be caught near the bottom and as long as you take care with your knots you won't need the zap-a-gap.

Split shot is another item you'll need, usually bb size is the best and you can add them to your line as needed.


I hope this is helpful!

[Cardiackid74]

Lance. I just realized that we have been PMing back and forth and I am keeping all your great information to myself instead of having it on this site to inform other potantial newbies about fly fishing. I will switch to this thread so others can read.

[Cardiackid74]

I need to buy flies and I am now debating with myself on wether to try and use my 5/6wt rod or invest in a 7/8 wt rig. If it were my decision it woul dbe easy...you cant have enough fishing equipment. But my wife is the hunting/fishing equipment pessimist. Just kidding.

[Cardiackid74]

Lance the video I bought (Scientific angler beginner flyfishing) they were bending the hook barbs down on the flies they used. Why were they doing that?

[Lance]

How much diffrence will a 6 wt or 7 wt rod really have on steelhead?

The 7 weight will give you more backbone to help guide the fish once you get past the initial runs. On the 20-25" fish it's not a big deal but the 27"+ fish you will REALLY appreciate it.

Just tell her it will save on costly medical bills related to spraining your wrist because you used too light of a rod! :bouncy: :biggrin:


As far as bending the hooks down, that's most often done when fishing catch and release or using larger flies. A lot of hooks can have pretty nasty barbs on them once you get bigger size #14 and can really tear up a fishes mouth, especially on smaller trout or panfish. PA actually requires your barbs be pinched down or actual barbless hooks for the special reg C+R streams.

I'll get some pics of Erie trib flies Wed or Thursday night. :)

[Cardiackid74]

That would be great lance. Im trying to put together a list of what I will need at first and budget myself. Maybe shop around and see who has what and at what price. I will post my findings.

[Lance]

Sorry about the delay in getting the fly picks up. Been a crazy 3 days!! I'll have them up Monday night guaranteed!!!

[Lance]

The next couple posts will give you a little more info on what you can think about carrying on the water.

This is my Nymph Box:

http://www.ohiosportsman.com/photopost/data/515/Nymph_Box.jpg

This is my Streamer Box:

http://www.ohiosportsman.com/photopost/data/515/Streamer_Box.jpg

[Lance]

And here are a few more important flies:

Mysis Shrimp
http://www.ohiosportsman.com/photopost/data/515/Geary_s_Mysis.jpg

Prince Nymph

http://www.ohiosportsman.com/photopost/data/515/Prince_Nymph.jpg

Flashback Pheasant Tail Nymph

http://www.ohiosportsman.com/photopost/data/515/Flashback_Pheasant_tail.jpg

[Cardiackid74]

Wow thanks Lance. Thats what I needed to know. Oh yeah big bummer on my part. My rod is a 4/5 wt rod. Looks like I will need a new set up. Ross has a new reel out called a flystart I believe?? I will find a link and see what you think of it.

[Lance]

Let me know what you find on this! I've not seen anything about that one. As far as reels I've seen first hand I have first hand knowledge of the CLA is the entry reel in the Large Arbor arena and the Cimarron's are a traditional style reel. The CLA is about $200 and the Cimmarons run about $160. I feel pretty comfortable saying if they maintain Ross standards it would be a good reel as I've not found a Ross I didn't like. I've got both a Cimarron (5 /6 wt) and a Rythm (3/4wt) and really like both of them.
My go to "horse" reel for Steelhead and Salmon is a Harris Solitude Large Arbor. They were sold and relocated to Washington since I bought mine and I have no idea if they've maintained the quality on those or not.

[Cardiackid74]

http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/pod/standard-pod-wrapped.jsp?id=0043219&navCount=1&parentId=cat20473&masterpathid=&navAction=push&cmCat=MainCatcat20431-cat20473&parentType=index&indexId=cat20473&rid=

Here is the link to the cabelas site for the reel. I am gonna take a ride to cabelas tonight and take a look around. They have redington cross (something) rods marked down to 29.00 and reds marked down to 49.00

[Cardiackid74]

Well I went to Cabelas and looked around. I bought a rod and reel combo. Here it is. I got the 968 combo. Its a 9'6" 8 wt with the CRS reel line and backing. It came with a rod tube and otehr little throw in's.

Link: http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/product/standard-item.jsp?_DARGS=/cabelas/en/common/catalog/item-link.jsp_A&_DAV=MainCatcat20431-cat370004_TGP&id=0039695318018a&navCount=2&podId=0039695&parentId=cat370004&masterpathid=&navAction=push&catalogCode=IH&rid=&parentType=index&indexId=cat370004&hasJS=true

Now for flies. I have the info you gave me Lance and I see what you carry. What should be my fisrt purchase of flies to get me going? Should I buy a few of each color and size you talked about? Also leader and tippet. Then waders and vest/tools.

Still on shopping list

Wolly Buggers
Prince Nymphs
Stone Fly Nymphs
Crystal Meth
Flashback Phesant Tail Nymph
Mysis Shrimp

Waders

Vest and tools

Net

Leader

Tippet

For some reason my wife was okay to fast and easy on buying what Ineeded for fly fishing. Wonder what she wants :yikes:

[Lance]

Congrats on the rig! It's all down hill from here. ;)

I've got some lists of "starter type samplers" that I recommend to newbies with colors and sizes and such. I'll post that up for you when I get home tonight.

For some reason my wife was okay to fast and easy on buying what Ineeded for fly fishing. Wonder what she wants

Well you know Valentines day is next week!!! :D

[Cardiackid74]

Yes and I will be out of town all next week. So valentines day is this weekend for me.

So what do you think of the weight and product?

When dose the fishing really start going on the chagrin? I have stopped and watched they guys in the past but can't recall the months when it seemed to pickup.

Lance also let me know what other things you figure I should look at other than flies. Thanks again for your help.

[Lance]

It looks like it should be just about perfect. :) I've not seen that reel first hand but my experience with their fly reels and rods they've always been a quality product. I've got a rod and my cousin has one of their SR reels.

As far as waders go you could go either route on Neoprene or Breathables and be alright. The Neoprene are warm but can be a bit much if you want to use them in the summer.The breathable will work all year you just need to layer well. The most important thing in that set-up is your boots. Wether you go stocking foot with a wading shoe or a bootfoot wader you really need felt bottoms. With Ohio and PA's shale bottoms you WILL end up on your butt and wet at some point if you use rubber soles. The perfect setup is studded felt. Try them on for size and once you've got a pair that seem to fit right go up one size if your going to fish in the cold. Especially if your using a wading shoe. If you go too small you'll stress the seams in your heal and end up with leaks.

Vests are what ever seems right to you. I would be attentive to the size of the largest pockets as many vests do not have pockets large enough to fis tome of the nice streamer boxes out there.

As far as hardware. A nippers and a forceps are the most important and really the only "required" tools.

If you go with a net don't undersize it as you will lose more fish with it by knocking them lose. Their is a net called a "weigh net" that I use. It has a scale built into the handle. It's about the perfect size for steelhead so I would go with something around that size.

For leader and tippet. Figure #4, #6 and #8 test for your connection to the fly. I tend to buy tapered leaders 9' #6lb tapered leaders and then tie in tippet as I need to. I get a lot more life out of the tapered leaders that way.

Flies yet to come! :)

[hoot gibson]

cardiackid, when you get to the fly fishing show in cincy look up rick and maryann from millersburg . just south of it . they have a really nice place called wolf creek . they might be in your neck of the woods . three ponds and a really nice trout stream .. hoot

[Lance]

They've changed their name to Ohio Outdoors Experience. Check out their website, pretty interesting.

http://www.ohiooutdoor.com/

I won an overnight for their place at the Cleveland Fly Show last month. I'll be spending a night there next month. Can't wait!! :)

[Lance]

Here is what I recommend for a beginners box of flies starting from scratch. It provides a nice variety of streamers, nymphs and egg type flies as well as a little redundancy if something is really hot. If your stocking for two of you I’d increase a little here and there as you need.

Wooly buggers –Black Size #8 (2 each)
Wooly Bugger Purple Size #8 (2 each)
Wooly Bugger White Size #8 (2 each)
Egg Sucking Black Leach #8 (2)
Bleeding Emerald Shiner #8 (2)
Black Stone Fly Nymph #8 and #12 (3 each)
Black Micro Stone #16 (3)
Prince Nymph #12 (3 )
Pheasant Tail Nymph #12 (
Flashback Pheasant Tail Nymph #12 (2)
White Sucker Spawn #10 (4)
Pink Sucker Spawn #10 (4)
Crystal Meth White #12 (2)
Crystal Meth Pink #12 (2)
Crystal Meth Orange #12 (2)
Mysis Shrimp #14 ---(3)

Others patterns I would consider adding if I were to expand:

Gold Ribbed Hare’s Ear Nymph
Flashback Gold Ribbed Hare’s Ear Nymph
Pheasant Tail Nymph #16
Bead Head Caddis Pupa (green or White)
Black Nose Dace
Geary’s Woolhead Sculpin w/Hot Orange Tungsten Conehead
Mickey Finn


These should give you a little direction to play!

[hoot gibson]

lance , i really feel like a dummy here , i remember they changed there name . now . i cut out and made the sighn as you go into the parking lot .. :( cant get much dummer than me i guess . ) email me and let me know when you will be there , i will swing by .. hoot osta70@hotmail.com

[Lance]

Hoot, You've got mail!

[Cardiackid74]

Lance. On to my son. He is 13 but a little guy. Should I still look for a 9ft rod or something shorter and in what weight?

[Cardiackid74]

the weigh net comes in diffrent sizes. What size should I go with? 10" or 15"

[Lance]

I use this size, no problems getting 28-30" fish in it:

Item # 110
Weigh net XL hoop, short handle with 14lb scale.
Net opening 20" x 16"
Soft Woven Knotless Nylon Net Bag

Item # M110
(Above net with micro- mesh net bag)


As far as a rod for your son, my instincts say stick with the longer rod. Graphite is pretty light weight and my personal experiences on fishing steel with a 8'6" rod was that it was much harder to get the line and weight out of the water to make my next cast. It just seems to make the most sense from a physics perspective.

That being said I'm going to check with a couple more guys I know and see what they think as they've had a little more expereince with teaching kids with heavier rods than I have. I should have an answer by Monday.

[hoot gibson]

not to interupt , got your mail lance , i will do my best to look you up when you are fishing .. hoot

[Lance]

That would be GREAT Hoot, look forward to meeting you!


Cardiac,

I've spoken with guys I was hoping to get in touch with, additionally I stumbled into a couple of younger teens and tapped into their experiences. The universal answer was to stick with a longer rod. The weight really isn't a factor with graphite and if he learns to cast correctly from the start he will be even that much further ahead in learning to let the rod do the work vs. his arms. The only cautionary word was to steer away from a really fast action rod as they are less forgiving to mistakes, which I whole heartedly agree with. This shouldn't be a problem though as those rods tend to be outside the price ranges you've been working with.

I hope this is helpful!

[Cardiackid74]

Thats great info Lance.

Hay have you heard of this fishing hunting show in Strongsville this weekend? Is it worth attending? CTS or CST show.

[mrjbigfoot]

I'd be interested in knowing about any fishing shows, I inherited some really nice & rare bamboo fly rods that I'm in the process of figuring out what the best way to move is... some super nice reels to...

A GH Howells 7' 6" Bamboo Rod & a rare HL Leonard (Maxwell era) 6' Bamboo pack rod + 1 Marryat & 2 Hardy reels (all are in excellent condition):

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a110/mrjbigfoot/HLL1.jpg

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a110/mrjbigfoot/GHH3.jpg

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a110/mrjbigfoot/Marryat_MR_7-5b.jpg

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a110/mrjbigfoot/Hardy_StAidanb.jpg

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a110/mrjbigfoot/Hardy_Marquis5b.jpg

From what I've gathered, since both Mr. Maxwell & Mr. Howells have more recently passed away, the rods are really up there in value. They both may go for as much as $3,500 - $4,500.

[Cardiackid74]

Nice rods.

Link 4 show

http://www.ctmexpoenterprises.com/

[Lance]

I've not heard anything about that show. Can't offer much there.


Mike,

Can you adopt me for a week this spring/summer so I can cast those rods a few times, you know just to make sure they work ok?? I LOVE nice cane!!! :) :bouncy:


Those are some VERY sweet set ups!! If you're looking for someone to really put a finite value to them I can put you in touch with someone but it sounds like you are already on the right track. The best show in the immediate future that I would consider taking them to would be the Midwest fly show at Macomb College in MI. It's quite a large and diverse show.

[mrjbigfoot]

Actually, since I've been doing some research, I've had about 6 guys that deal in premium vintage rods, come after me big time. It's funny that the commission % has varied from 15-30% and I'm thinking I may just hook up with Dave Collyer (Denver Dave's) because he's offered me a lot of honest advise, a good deal on consignment & he really sells the highest volume and/or moves a ton of vintage rods fast at a premium price. He's also been doing consignment sales for a long time, has a very high ebay ranking and deals in dispositioning high dollar estate type stuff. I'm thinking it may be more in my favor to go that route.

:coolgleamA:

[Lance]

So I guess this means you won't adopt me?? :D


Check your PM's. :)

[Cardiackid74]

Dose anyone know if the sportsman show at the ix center will have any good fly fishing stuff?

How was the cincy show? My wifes grandmother was very sick and we ended up at the hospital with her over the weekend. We were planning on driving down to it prior to that.

[Lance]

I've not been to the cleveland show in years, not much help to you there, but if your willing to travel, the Midwest show in MI that I recommended to Mrjbigfoot is OUTSTANDING and is a much shorter drive than the Cincy show would have been. You'd be looking at about a 3 1/2 hr drive. And you can easily spend a full day there if you attend any of the seminars. They have some world class talent there and get a number of manufacturer reps there as well. They even have a pretty decent indoor casting pond!

It's a good enough show that my wife has agreed to go to it with me on our anniversery weekend more than once. :)

[Cardiackid74]

You wouldnt happen to have a link for that show would you. Or dates?

[Lance]

March 10th and 11th.

http://www.mffc.org/