Well Let's get started

["J"]

Do you think Ohio should build their seasons to reflect QDM, should they say make it a rule that all ADULT hunters will harvest a doe before tagging their buck? (I know this has been hashed out before but I figure it's probably about time for it to surface again) And lets say that they use the results to regulate the number of bucks taken, every time you check a deer in they ask if it's a doe, bbuck or buck, they could use the information to limit the number of bucks/doe taken in a given county that way. I have seen a good number of good bucks this year in the areas that I hunt and I hunt 4 different counties, Columbiana, Mahoning, Jefferson and Guernsey. And when I say good bucks I'm saying in the 120 and over class. Largest would of been in the 160 class which would of been in Guernsey county. Now say for example that Columbiana county had taken 1500 deer during the season and 1100 would of been doe/bbucks What would you release for the next year for doe/buck tags? I don't know enough on the subject to put down what I would think on the numbers but there are those here that do. So what are the opinions.

[geezer]

No

[stumphole]

I'm not sure the state is going to embrace "QDM" but certianly the data gathered from the check ins would and has been used to determine the 1-2or3 deer counties. I don't believe "Earn a Buck" will ever be implemented and not sure it should be. The rule that you can take only 1 antlered deer per year is about as far as it will go.

["J"]

Is it because of the logistics or because it's to hard to change the thinking of the hunting population?

[Big H]

NO, I think that our ODNR does a good job overall, of managing the deer herd. I also think that most Ohio hunters differ from some of our neighboring states that have the "got to get my buck attitude".

[Andy Gehle]

Nope.

[deerhunt45]

I don't think we need to mess with it, especially when it involves more governmental intrusion and the associated fees/taxes. It's simply not necessary.

The ODNR does a very good job with the resources they have. The program they have is working. Can it be improved? Certainly. But I think you have to be cautious with such far reaching changes. The question this thread poses affects many hunters and non hunters alike.

One integral part of the program is us, the hunters. The deer herd in Ohio is large, growing and healthy and if we all continue to do our part in the management plan, (whatever your personal involvement is) things will be fine for many years to come. Continuing to share and educate the next generation and arming them with outdoor/hunting/conservation and management skills and a respect of our natural resources will ensure that the hunting sports, including the whitetails, last for many more generations.

45

[bowhunter1023]

The best way I have seen QDM described on here it that it is a great thing on the individual/group level, but not at a state level. The ODNR is doing fine in my book. It will never be perfect in 100% of the hunters eyes...But look what we have right now. I think the non-resident fees and outside leasing need to be addressed before we even think about a way to push QDM statewide.

[deerhunt45]

The non-resident issue gets kicked around here quite often. With Ohio's growing popularity as a big buck state and deer hunting mecca, we can expect more non-resident hunters. I welcome these hunters and like it or not they are a big part of the Ohio QDM equation (as we are to our neighbor states). Anyone who attempts to hijack this post/thread into a "non-resident evil land baron" thread will see my badge :mischeif: Save it for another time.

Let's start with a quick $$ and cents comparison of current non-resident license fees for Ohio and our surrounding states.

I'll leave the particular regulations, stipulations and nuances (weapons, seasons, etc.) which differ from state to state for others to contribute. The only other state I have personally hunted as a non-resident for whitetail is Michigan.

Looking forward reading about the experiences of some of our OS members who have been "non-resident" deer hunters. I've a few stories to tell about just trying to purchase a non-resident license...lol 45 :coolgleamA:

Disclaimer: Always read/understand all the regulations for the state you plan to hunt.

Indiana Non-resident

Deer hunting (archery or firearm) $150
Additional "bonus" antlerless tag available for $24

Michigan Non-resident

archery deer $138
firearm deer (buck only) $138
combination $276

Pennsylvania Non-resident

adult hunting $101
archery tag $26
muzzleloader $21

Kentucky Non-resident

annual license $115
deer permit (archery or firearm) $50
bonus antlerless tag $12.50

West Virginia Non-resident

Conservation/Law enforcement stamp (required) $12
hunting license $110
archery stamp $30
muzzleloader stamp $30
additional firearms deer stamp $40

Ohio Non-resident

annual license $125
deer permit (archery or firearm) $24
special urban permit available for $15

[Redhunter1012]

(in honor of coonie):nono: :nono: :nono: :nono: :nono: :nono: :nono:

[coonskinner]

let the real xperts decide this,,,it does not need to be done by those with other agendas...:D

[bowhunter1023]

I was not attempting to highjack this thread...However, I was simply pointing out 2 of the most current hotly debated issues on this site, and possibly across the state right now.

Personally, I have seen the numbers, and I will agree there are other bargains at roughly the same price as Ohio...But who's first choice is honestly WV, PA, or IN when your could also have IL, IA, or KS? (Generally speaking of course.) As far as $$ and cents, we rank with the aforementioned states in terms of that. In terms of herd quality, we rank with the latter. Take that and explore how easy it is to hunt here compared to IL, IA, or KS. Draws and lottery’s are for tickets…not tags.

Again not attempting to highjack...just answering the proposed question. Please feel free to move, or delete...Just defending my statement.

["J"]

let the real xperts decide this,,,it does not need to be done by those with other agendas...

OK but does the state not hold meetings with the public to have input? And with that input they formulate policy, so as stated before is it the mentality or the logistics that are the problem with change on this subject. I'd say the thinking would be the hardest to change. But if the state chooses to go down that road and forces the issue and years after that the heard is where they want it, with still a large number of quality animals taken with a saving of the habitat ( do to the actual heard being downsized where needed)that they require it would be a win win situation wouldn't it.

[Big H]

After looking at the other state's fees, I would support Ohio having "habitat/law enforcement" tag simiar to W.V. I would like to see it go into a separate fund for improvements, purchases on public ground etc... I also think that there should be some sort of user fee for other non-hunting activities at State Parks, including fishing, bird watching, hiking etc... so that other special interest groups start contributing to Ohio's wildlife and land aquisition programs. A yearly/family permit should be available, and the fees collected HAVE to be earmarked to improve launch sites, improve habitat, buying property :mischeif: (there you go coonie), possibly new game wardens in areas that need them etc.....

I also agree with bowhunter1023, that we are not comparing "apples to apples", lets see the numbers from other states in the Midwest that have comparable trophy potential.

[bowhunter1023]

Iowa: Non-resident

License: $80.50 - Application Necessary
Either Only Deer: (License and Habitat Fee) - $221.50
Antlerless Only Deer: (License and Habitat Fee) - $151.50

LICENSE QUOTAS
The number of nonresident deer licenses available for 2006 is the same as 2005: 6,000 Any-deer/Antlerless-only combination licenses are available, divided among 10 zones. No more than 35 percent of the available Any-deer/Antlerless-only combination licenses for each zone can be for the bow season. An additional 3,500 optional Antlerless-only deer licenses are available for hunters that do not obtain an Any-deer/Antlerless-only combination license. Quotas for Any-deer/Antlerless-only combination and Bow licenses have been established for each zone (see page 3). Any-deer/Antlerless-only combination licenses will be issued randomly within each zone for the season designated by the applicant until the Bow or Any-deer/Antlerless only combination quota is reached for each zone. If the Bow quota is reached first, Any-deer/Antlerless-only combination licenses will continue to be issued for firearm seasons until the zone quota is reached. Optional Antlerless-only deer licenses will be sold in a separate process after Any-deer/Antlerless-only combination licenses are issued. Nonresidents that own land in Iowa will receive preference in purchasing optional Antlerless-only licenses (see pages 5-6).

LICENSE REQUIREMENTS AND RESTRICTIONS

Nonresidents must have in their possession a 2006 Iowa nonresident deer hunting license, a valid Iowa nonresident hunting license and a valid Habitat Fee to hunt, possess or transport deer. As a nonresident, you MAY NOT: Apply for or purchase more than one nonresident Any-deer/Antlerless-only license combination through the drawing OR purchase more than one optional Antlerless only license. Apply for or purchase a resident and nonresident deer hunting license in the same year unless your resident status changes. Carry, use or have in your possession any license or transportation tag issued to another hunter. Hunt in any zone, season or farm unit (if applicable) other than that specified on the license. Obtain a deer license if your Iowa hunting privileges have been suspended or revoked.


Better deer in Iowa? More B&C and P&Y entries is hard to dispute. Tougher process to hunt...Definately. More to come on Illinois and Kansas.

[bowhunter1023]

Up to 50% of nonresident deer permits may be allotted to resident landowner/tenants and nonresident tenants. If permits remain after the initial landowner/tenant computer draw they will be included in the nonresident draw. Applicant must qualify as a resident landowner/tenant or a nonresident tenant to apply, and only one permit per qualified applicant may be obtained. (Family members residing with landowner/tenants do not qualify unless they qualify as a landowner or tenant.) Permit voucher may be transferred once to any resident or nonresident, provided the transferee does not possess another antlered deer permit. Lawfully transferred means transferred through a Wildlife & Parks office.

Non-Resident Archery

Draw permits are valid for 2 units of your choice plus unit 19. Be sure your choices are under the correct season of choice. Non-Resident Firearms Draw permits are only good for 1 unit. Do not make a choice in a unit you do not want to hunt and make no more than 4 choices. Landowner/tenant transferable archery permits are county specific and are only valid in the county or up to two counties that landowner/tenant own or operates land in. Must own or operate land in additional county but land does not have to be in the same unit applying for and does not have to meet the 80 acre requirement.

Group Hunt Application Instructions

The Group Hunt application is to accommodate those who do not want to draw unless their hunting partners draw also. Applicants must apply for the same unit. Do not mix General and Landowner/Tenant applications as group hunts; all must qualify for the same class. You must qualify for the LO/T in the unit applying for. LO/T permit allows you to hunt anywhere in the unit specified on the permit. Non-compliance will result in the applications being processed as single applications without Group Hunts status. To apply online you must have group leader’s KDWP customer number to join the group. You will need to scroll down to "Limited Draw Applications" on the right. Fill in all blanks, and make sure you add same information on all Group Hunts applications. All deer hunters will be required to have a deer permit that allows them to take an antlered deer before they may acquire an antlerless-only permit or game tag. Antlerless permits and game tags may be purchased online or from Kansas Department of Wildlife & Parks offices and all licensed Agents after August 1, 2006. Hunters may purchase an anterless-only permit as the hunter's first or only tag after December 30, 2006 for the January season.

Statewide Whitetail Antlerless Only Permit: $32.15-Resident; $17.15-Landowner/Tenant; $77.15 – Nonresident must have an Antlered Deer Permit before acquiring an antlerless only permit. Can be purchased from any licensed agent or online after August 1, 2006. Hunters may purchase an antlerless-only deer permit or game tag AFTER Dec. 30, 2006, without having first obtained a permit that allows the take of an antlered deer. Whitetail Antlerless Deer Game Tags: $12.15-Resident; $22.15-Nonresident must have an Antlered Deer Permit before acquiring an anterless only permit. Not valid on Public lands and Only valid in units that allow Game Tags. Can be purchased from any licensed agent or online after August 1, 2006.

Again...Is the herd better? That's another debate...Is it easier to hunt Ohio...and ultimately cheaper...Yes. Illinois to come.

[bowhunter1023]

FIREARM DEER PERMITS (Shotgun, Muzzleloader, Handgun) Application Dates:

1st lottery deadline - April 30: Residents* only
2nd lottery deadline - August 14: First time applicants, non-residents** & rejected applicants
Random daily drawings - Sept 17 - Nov 7: multiple permits
Last day to apply for 1st Season permits: October 18

Non-Resident Applications available July, 2007 Non-Resident Firearm Deer Permit Fees (subject to change):
· The cost of a Non-Resident Either-Sex Firearm deer permit: $250
· The cost of a Non-Resident Antlerless-Only Firearm deer permit: $15
· The cost of a Non-Resident Combination Firearm deer permit (either-sex and antlerless-only): $265

Non-Resident Muzzleloader-only Permit Fees (Subject to Change):
· The cost of a Non-Resident Either-Sex Muzzleloader-only deer permit: $250
· The cost of a Non-Resident Antlerless-Only Muzzleloader-only deer permit: $15
· The cost of a Non-Resident Combination Muzzleloader-only deer permit (either-sex and antlerless-only): $265

Non-Resident Archery Dates and Fees (*Fees Subject to Change) :
· The 2007 Non-Resident Archery-Only Lottery will be held June 1 - June 30, 2007
· The cost of a Non-Resident Archery Combination Deer permit (one either-sex/one antlerless) will be $365.00. The quota will be 20,000 for Non-Resident combination tags.
· The cost of a Non-Resident Archery Antlerless Deer permit (available over the counter) will be $15.00* and there is no quota.
· There is an Outfitter's Preference for a maximum 7500 permit applications that are designated with an Outfitter Number (this is part of the 20,000 quota). Hunters that are unsuccessful in the Outfitter draw will be automatically placed into the general draw.
· Non-resident archery deer permits issued to outfitter clients who received a permit based on the preference given to outfitter clients are valid only on property controlled by the outfitter used to gain preference.

PROPERTY ONLY HUNTING

Definition:
Resident Property Only Hunting (POH) = Landowner/shareholder/limited liability company member/income trust beneficiary and partner of a partnership (40 acres or more)

Non-Resident Property Only Hunting (NR-POH) = Landowner/shareholder/limited liability company member/income trust beneficiary (40 acres or more).

Non-Resident POH Hunting Permit Fees (Subject to change):
· The cost of a NR-POH Either-Sex Firearm permit: $100
· The cost of a NR-POH Antlerless-only Firearm deer permit:$15
· The cost of a NR-POH Combination Firearm deer permit (either-sex and antlerless-only): $115
· The cost of a NR-POH Combination Archery deer permit (either-sex and antlerless-only): $150

Again drawings, lottery's, expensive tags and fees...Better herd than Ohio...Check the record books...Hard to aquire tags and licenses...You be the judge. This is "apples-to-apples"...Quality-to-quality...Ohio is the best bargain in the country in terms of $$ and cents...And big deer.

[bowhunter1023]

Guess that silenced the critics a little...Hope that is what you were after Big H.

[WILEY1]

Guess that silenced the critics a little...Hope that is what you were after Big H.
I agree with you on all of these states problems. I've worked and hunted in all three. And the only specie I didn't hunt while working in each, was whitetail. A little too time consuming (figureing out open areas and tagging restrictions) and expensive. The great unseen problem with micro-management.

[coonskinner]

Iowa: Non-resident

License: $80.50 - Application Necessary
Either Only Deer: (License and Habitat Fee) - $221.50
Antlerless Only Deer: (License and Habitat Fee) - $151.50

LICENSE QUOTAS
The number of nonresident deer licenses available for 2006 is the same as 2005: 6,000 Any-deer/Antlerless-only combination licenses are available, divided among 10 zones. No more than 35 percent of the available Any-deer/Antlerless-only combination licenses for each zone can be for the bow season. An additional 3,500 optional Antlerless-only deer licenses are available for hunters that do not obtain an Any-deer/Antlerless-only combination license. Quotas for Any-deer/Antlerless-only combination and Bow licenses have been established for each zone (see page 3). Any-deer/Antlerless-only combination licenses will be issued randomly within each zone for the season designated by the applicant until the Bow or Any-deer/Antlerless only combination quota is reached for each zone. If the Bow quota is reached first, Any-deer/Antlerless-only combination licenses will continue to be issued for firearm seasons until the zone quota is reached. Optional Antlerless-only deer licenses will be sold in a separate process after Any-deer/Antlerless-only combination licenses are issued. Nonresidents that own land in Iowa will receive preference in purchasing optional Antlerless-only licenses (see pages 5-6).

LICENSE REQUIREMENTS AND RESTRICTIONS

Nonresidents must have in their possession a 2006 Iowa nonresident deer hunting license, a valid Iowa nonresident hunting license and a valid Habitat Fee to hunt, possess or transport deer. As a nonresident, you MAY NOT: Apply for or purchase more than one nonresident Any-deer/Antlerless-only license combination through the drawing OR purchase more than one optional Antlerless only license. Apply for or purchase a resident and nonresident deer hunting license in the same year unless your resident status changes. Carry, use or have in your possession any license or transportation tag issued to another hunter. Hunt in any zone, season or farm unit (if applicable) other than that specified on the license. Obtain a deer license if your Iowa hunting privileges have been suspended or revoked.


Better deer in Iowa? More B&C and P&Y entries is hard to dispute. Tougher process to hunt...Definately. More to come on Illinois and Kansas.

lots of pay hunting in these states...deer are grown to get big...in ohio this is just gettin started...ohio has done well without it...i will never be for earn a buck...seems many that want this are huntin over bait or plots or have there own land and set up...an they have an edge...oh its easy to knock out that doe early...not so with the majority of hunters...qdm is a smokescreen just to make it easier to kill a buck...habitat and wildlife for everybuddy in general is secondary...if there ever is a system i hope our odnr will come up with one that is FAIR to all hunters regardless of his standing in society...hunting should not be for just those that make a lot of money...sadly thats what is happening to hunting today...:D

[Big H]

Guess that silenced the critics a little...Hope that is what you were after Big H.

That's it.

[bowhunter1023]

What no :mischeif: from coonie...I didn't know you could smile so purdy :D

[deerhunt45]

:mischeif: Where's coonie

By not including Kansas, Iowa and Illinois non-res deer prices (and I looked them up) I basically meant: 1. Am I going to hunt those states for deer anytime soon? Not likely when I live in Ohio and at those trophy prices and restrictions. It's like playing the lottery...you pay those prices and have a chance to harvest a trophy of a lifetime and possibly a record deer and it's associated glory (some would call it baggage)? Certainly, but the odds are long for the average hunter imo...my odds are better in Ohio :)
2. Ohio and the states we abut (we are right in the middle of!), Michigan, Indiana, Kentucky, Pennsylvania and West Virginia have some of the greatest deer hunting available as never before seen.

I would add that in overall comparison, I think Ohio is certainly a bargain. Could we stand to raise non-resident deer tags? IMO yes...but marginally and proportionately. I think we need to continue with the close "reciprocity" we have with our neighbors, not try to shut them out.

Perhaps we should charge non-resident deer fees reciprocal to the state they reside in. Just some thoughts ;)