14 for 14 on Bucks

[Buckslayer1]

Our family group of Ohio deer hunters went 14 for 14 on Bucks this year. They were all bagged from stands no deer drives. 13 taken in Ashtabula Co and 1 in Trumbull Co. and all checked in at Monty's Mosquito carry out in Trumbull Co.
My wife and her brother Russell both scored on Saturday Dec. 2. Also 4 does were taken in Archery season and none during gun season. 9 bucks came off of 1 farm.

Archery Bucks

Margie 5 point- Buckslayer1 sister
Amanda 14 point- Might make Ohio big Buck
Dave 5 point
Jason 5 point
Allen 6 point
Andrew 7 point -My son
Alex 7 point- My son
Mike 8 point Buckslayer1

Gun Bucks

Matt 5 point
Thelma 6 point 22 inch spread- Buckslayer1 -74 year old Mother
Ray 6 point -Buckslayer1 Dad
Melanie 8 point
Melinda 8 point -Buckslayer1 Wife
Russell 9 point

[deerhunt45]

congratulations to you and your family on a great season!! thanks for sharing Buckslayer1. any chance you'll post some pics? :bouncy:

45 :coolgleamA:

[WILEY1]

Nice to see the whole family getting out there. You guys have some great memories. Good stuff.

[countyroad]

Wow,

How about some pics?:bouncy:

[Trushot_archer]

Man! How big is your farm!LOL!!
Congrats! Sounds like a fun filled (and freezer filled) season.

[tuffshot]

:16suspect1:

[Buckslayer1]

We'll be getting to together on christmas hope to get a group picture with everyone holding there racks.

[traphunter]

nice going.:) Its good to see family spending time together. How many bucks do you expect to see next year?

[hunTer06]

thats alot of bucks!

[coonskinner]

gonna call yuh the slaughters:mischeif:

[Buckslayer1]

9 of the Bucks came off a 90 acre farm with 30 acres of standing corn. We have a few other farms to hunt on next year.

[fishforfun]

Buckslayer , I hope your property you hunt isn t close to the property i hunt.I saw alot of small bucks in my area during the summer ,with 2 wall hangers.But congrats on your families deer season.

[mrex]

THE GOOD: Buckslayer got to enjoy the outdoors with his family. I’m particularly jealous that his wife hunts with him. My fanaticism towards the sport has turned my wife into a border line “anti”.

THE BAD: Eighteen dead deer and only four does.

THE UGLY: How’d you like to hunt that 90 acre farm next year?

[Big H]

THE UGLY: How’d you like to hunt that 90 acre farm next year?[/QUOTE]

No I would not. :nono:

[traphunter]

I think I would pass on that farm also. Not to take away from buckslayers familys good fortune at all, but I would be willing to bet that your buck sightings their next year will be very slim.

[ohiosam]

Nature abhores a vaccuum. If there are does there I'll bet there will be some bucks. Just maybe not one for everyone next year. Heck some that come to the funerals just might stay:)

[WILEY1]

Somehow you guys are able to turn a nice family outing into something bad. You big rack hunters should be ashamed of yourselves. It's his property. You can hunt your property your way. You guys have lost touch with hunting.

[mrex]

Nature abhores a vaccuum. If there are does there I'll bet there will be some bucks. Just maybe not one for everyone next year. Heck some that come to the funerals just might stay:)

You mean like West Virginia?

[Big H]

Somehow you guys are able to turn a nice family outing into something bad. You big rack hunters should be ashamed of yourselves. It's his property. You can hunt your property your way. You guys have lost touch with hunting.

Not trying to turn it into something bad, just saying I am glad I am not hunting that property next year. I am happy for him and his family, they apparently had a great season.

[mrex]

Somehow you guys are able to turn a nice family outing into something bad. You big rack hunters should be ashamed of yourselves. It's his property. You can hunt your property your way. You guys have lost touch with hunting.

Figure this out.

They’re born one to one. Two out of ten have easily visible antlers (not button bucks). Now, here’s where it gets a little tricky; if fourteen out of every eighteen killed have visible antlers, how many years before Ohio becomes Pennsylvania?

It doesn’t shame me at all to point that out. If it changes just one persons opinion or makes one person stop and think, then it was worth the time it took to type it.

[ohiosam]

Seems alot of people here want everyone to hunt the way they hunt. Sure glad some of you "experts" aren't running the Division of Wildlife.

[mrex]

Seems alot of people here want everyone to hunt the way they hunt. Sure glad some of you "experts" aren't running the Division of Wildlife.

You got that right.

[ohiosam]

Figure this out.

They’re born one to one. Two out of ten have easily visible antlers (not button bucks). Now, here’s where it gets a little tricky; if fourteen out of every eighteen killed have visible antlers, how many years before Ohio becomes Pennsylvania?

It doesn’t shame me at all to point that out. If it changes just one persons opinion or makes one person stop and think, then it was worth the time it took to type it.

Your math leaves out a little. How many antlered bucks were left in the area? You have no idea.

Ashtabula County had something like 2500 deer killed, I'm sure the whole county wasn't 75% bucks to 25% does. Can you tell we what the ratio of antlered: non antlered across the state kill was?

Wasn't that many years ago all we could shoot was bucks and the herd thrived.

One family had a great season, something to talk about for years! I say good for them!

[CritterGitter]

Congratulations Buckslayer. You and your family had a great season. I wish you just as much success in your future hunts.

Also, any farm that offers food and cover will attract deer. Anyone who says they wouldn't want to hunt that farm next year likely doensn't know a couple of things:

1 - the carrying capacity of the land
2 - the history of this family and their success hunting this particular farm

I for one would be glad to hunt such a farm.

Kyle

[mrex]

Your math leaves out a little. How many antlered bucks were left in the area? You have no idea. It’s not a mathematical equation. I’ll break it down in terms you can understand. Let’s take littering for an example. If one knucklehead throws a McDonalds bag out the truck window, it doesn’t ruin the whole countryside. If everybody throws their trash out the truck window…..you follow me??
Ashtabula County had something like 2500 deer killed, I'm sure the whole county wasn't 75% bucks to 25% does. Can you tell we what the ratio of antlered: non antlered across the state kill was? ? Nope, but I will in mid March when the totals are in. I can tell you that a few months ago, state wide, for every ten you saw in a field, two should have had visible antlers.

Wasn't that many years ago all we could shoot was bucks and the herd thrived. That’s when we were trying to build the herd. We’re going the other way now.

One family had a great season, something to talk about for years! I say good for them!No argument there.

[Arrow 1]

It must be nice to have relatives that like to hunt. I have a bunch of relitives and NONE of them hunt or fish or have any intrest in doing it.:(

[TripleA88]

It must be nice to have relatives that like to hunt. I have a bunch of relitives and NONE of them hunt or fish or have any intrest in doing it.:(

Me too. Im the only one in my whole family that hunts and fishes.

[mrex]

Congratulations Buckslayer. You and your family had a great season. I wish you just as much success in your future hunts.

Also, any farm that offers food and cover will attract deer. Anyone who says they wouldn't want to hunt that farm next year likely doensn't know a couple of things:

1 - the carrying capacity of the land
2 - the history of this family and their success hunting this particular farm

I for one would be glad to hunt such a farm.

Kyle

You’re losing me Kyle, although that’s pretty easy (just ask wiley or sam).

What exactly does the carrying capacity of the land have to do with killing 9 bucks off of 90 acres? I don’t think anybody is saying they’re all dead. As a matter of fact, the ground might be chalk full of does and yes, bucks from somewhere will probably try to breed them…..just not the residents.

[CritterGitter]

Here is a quote from the original post:

"Also 4 does were taken in Archery season and none during gun season. 9 bucks came off of 1 farm."

Maybe there were no does around during gun season. Maybe there were plenty, but none came within range. I saw 14 deer during opening day of gun season and of those 14 I know for a fact that 5 of them were bucks. It could have possibly been more then that, but I couldn't get a good look at the ones farther away. Of the 14 total deer seen I had 3 come within range and they were all bucks I harvested the biggest one of the 3. Not a big buck, but I have spent a ton of time hunting, missed a few opportunities and made the decision that it was time to put meat in the freezer.

Also, maybe a couple of these bucks were a family member's first? Maybe it was there only deer in the freezer as I doubt his whole family lives under 1 roof? Maybe this particular 90 acre farm annually has 12 to 16 resident bucks? These are all details that we do not fully understand and/or know so why would we question the harvest of these bucks? I say hooray for him and his family. In my opinion they DID have a successful season!

Kyle

[mrex]

Here is a quote from the original post:

"Also 4 does were taken in Archery season and none during gun season. 9 bucks came off of 1 farm."

Maybe there were no does around during gun season. Maybe there were plenty, but none came within range. I saw 14 deer during opening day of gun season and of those 14 I know for a fact that 5 of them were bucks. It could have possibly been more then that, but I couldn't get a good look at the ones farther away. Of the 14 total deer seen I had 3 come within range and they were all bucks I harvested the biggest one of the 3. Not a big buck, but I have spent a ton of time hunting, missed a few opportunities and made the decision that it was time to put meat in the freezer.

Also, maybe a couple of these bucks were a family member's first? Maybe it was there only deer in the freezer as I doubt his whole family lives under 1 roof? Maybe this particular 90 acre farm annually has 12 to 16 resident bucks? These are all details that we do not fully understand and/or know so why would we question the harvest of these bucks? I say hooray for him and his family. In my opinion they DID have a successful season!

Kyle

Kyle – You’re entitled to your opinion. That much I understand. I don’t agree with you, but at least I understand you.

Where you lose me is when you bring up carrying capacity of the land so again I’ll ask, What exactly does the carrying capacity of the land have to do with killing 9 bucks off of 90 acres?

[CritterGitter]

If the make up of that 90 acres is such that it has a carrying capacity of 20, 30, or 40 deer then what difference does it make if they harvested 9 bucks off of it. I don't see harvesting 9 bucks off of one 90 acre farm as a major problem. You seem to think it is a bad thing. You are certainly entitled to your opinion, but I don't think it is a big deal. Also, others stated they wouldn't want to hunt that farm next year. I would have no problem with hunting that farm next year.

Though, I will admit that I do see your point of view. I especially liked the analogy to littering. If we all threw out a McDonalds bag the whole landscape would look like one big landfill. So, if everyone harvested 9 bucks off one 90 acre farm and we all did that every year, then it wouldn't take long for folks to start asking, "where did all the bucks go?"

I was only pointing out that there is a possibility that the particular farm his family is hunting might be able to support that kind of harvest rate of bucks year in and year out without a decline in population. Of course I don't know this for a fact and it is mererly speculation on my part, but it does offer a different point of view.

Kyle

[tuffshot]

I guess the ones that would benifit from 9 less bucks on 90 acres is the big boys on the adjacent farm, because those guys are tagged out and their will be some does that will need breedin and they should be safe unless ole Buckslayer1 has some more relatives.:whistle:

[mrex]

So, if everyone harvested 9 bucks off one 90 acre farm and we all did that every year, then it wouldn't take long for folks to start asking, "where did all the bucks go?"

BINGO!
Kyle
Forty deer per square mile (640 acres) is a lot. Forty resident deer in 90 acres is called a “pen”. Now before some of you jump in with the “I’ve seen fifty in one bean field before” comments, they were drawn to a food source OK?

Playing the devils advocate. Lets say forty deer spent most of their time on that 90 acres. According to the DOW biologists, eight of them had visible antlers. Buckslayer and co killed them all plus a stragler from the neighbors farm and that’s why some people wouldn’t be to excited about hunting there next fall.

I suppose if we really want to speculate, maybe that 90 acre tract sits in the middle of a 5,000 acre tract of primo habitat that’s strictly managed under QDM principles. I guess I would be knocking on that farmers door. :D

[10Gauge]

I'm impressed with the numbers of deer and quality of some of these bucks for a 90 acre property.....great hunting season!

We manage a 1300 acre tract and so far have only harvested a total of 15 deer (bow & gun todate) and only 4 were mature bucks, (1 - 9pt, 2 - 8pt, 1 - 6pt) and 8 doe. The other 3 were button bucks....boo who, but sometimes mistakes happen! My greater concern is actual mature buck sitings as compared to mature doe, our ratio is way out of proportion and may be as high as 5 or 6 doe per buck. Opps I forgot the poaching loggers were caught with an 8 pointer too and we don't have an accurate count from those bozo's yet?

Mike gets my vote for ODOW chief, btw! Ohio needs to move toward a QDM approach sooner rather than later...IMO

[ohiosam]

Your math leaves out a little. How many antlered bucks were left in the area? You have no idea. It’s not a mathematical equation. I’ll break it down in terms you can understand. Let’s take littering for an example. If one knucklehead throws a McDonalds bag out the truck window, it doesn’t ruin the whole countryside. If everybody throws their trash out the truck window…..you follow me??


People who litter are slobs who are violating the law! Are you saying Buckslayer and his family are slobs?? What they did was legal and ethical. Which people in his group should have not shot a buck, the 4th? 8th? 12th? What is the magic number that would have been OK with you? So maybe they got seven and pass on the rest. Maybe others hunting in the area might have still shot them.

[lung buster]

Congrats to you and your family on a job well done and a lifetime of memories!!:bouncy: :D

[mrex]

Which people in his group should have not shot a buck

Help me out Kyle.;)

A better question might be...."which people in his group should have shot a doe"?

[mrex]

Mike gets my vote for ODOW chief
Maybe the next time the pendulum swings towards the GOP!

[mrex]

People who litter are slobs who are violating the law!

My work here is done.:dizzy:

[traphunter]

I agree with Mrex:)

[geezer]

Our family group of Ohio deer hunters went 14 for 14 on Bucks this year. They were all bagged from stands no deer drives. 13 taken in Ashtabula Co and 1 in Trumbull Co. and all checked in at Monty's Mosquito carry out in Trumbull Co.
My wife and her brother Russell both scored on Saturday Dec. 2. Also 4 does were taken in Archery season and none during gun season. 9 bucks came off of 1 farm.

Archery Bucks

Margie 5 point- Buckslayer1 sister
Amanda 14 point- Might make Ohio big Buck
Dave 5 point
Jason 5 point
Allen 6 point
Andrew 7 point -My son
Alex 7 point- My son
Mike 8 point Buckslayer1

Gun Bucks

Matt 5 point
Thelma 6 point 22 inch spread- Buckslayer1 -74 year old Mother
Ray 6 point -Buckslayer1 Dad
Melanie 8 point
Melinda 8 point -Buckslayer1 Wife
Russell 9 point


CONGRADULATIONS TO YOU AND YOUR FAMILY ON A WONDERFUL HUNTING SEASON - DON'T LET ALL THE NEGATIVE AND SO CALLED "EXPERT" COMMENTS BOTHER YOU - AFTER ALL SOME OF THEM HAVE BEAT OVER A MILLION DEAD HORSES PER 90 ACRES TO DEATH OVER AND OVER AND......... WELL YOU KNOW......... -

HOPE YOU ARE ABLE TO POST UP THAT GROUP PIC AT CHRISTMAS TIME

TAKE CARE
geezer

[Big H]

:banghead3: :banghead3:

Mike, good luck on this one. BTW, I get your point.

[Fish-n-Fool]

Congrats on a great season!

I would just like to remind everybody not to be so quick to judge on the net as we don't have any suporting facts, etc.. I'll admit 9 bucks from 90 acres jumps out at ya, but we don't know the whereabouts of this 90 acre tract.

In my own experiences, we hunt a 120 acre tract in Muskingum County that is surrounded by 100s of acres of woods, some cropland and pastures. This property contains 2 very large funnels connecting large tracts of hardwoods and thickets. During the bow season it is only 3 of us and we shoot only mature bucks. But come gun season my Dad's old freind brings his sons up and they shoot whatever they see; which typically includes 3-5 bucks (mostly 1.5 and occaionally a 2.5 yr. old) and 3-5 does. On a heavy or "fortunate" year we have taken 7-8 bucks off this 120 acre tract and 5-6 does. We have been hunting this property in excess of 30 years and have never noticed a decrease in deer or bucks. I have seen as many as 25 different bucks during the bow season.

My point is despite some of the statistics there are 90 acre tracts in this state where taking 9 bucks in one year isn't going to be the end of the world. There are also 90 acre tracts that would be void of a resident buck population too. I'll admit if you are taking a pure trophy, QDM view it is not the way to go. But let's not be so quick on this site to jump a guy and his family for having a great year.

[CritterGitter]

Mike I feel your pain. If anything this may be giving you a glimpse into the spectrum of what it might be like tying to be the chief of the DOW. Lots of hunters with different ideas and you have to try to please them all. We won't even discuss the fishermen and all their agendas.;) Certainly not my dream job! :coco: lol

Again, I see your point of view. I also see the point of view of other hunters including Buckslayer and his family.

Oh, and nobody here said they were slobs or compared them to people littering. The littering analogy was only used to paint a picture of what can happen on a grand scale.

Kyle

[Kaiser878]

Im with Mike. QDM people, QDM. You kill the little bucks and you will never have a chance at a P&Y or Ohio Big Buck, or even a Booner class deer. I am runnnig into the same problem around my house. Me and two other individuals that hunt my area will only take a mature deer of P&Y potential or larger. All of us this year passed on 115-120 class bucks. Although the neighbors let every tom, dick, and harry on thier property from the "cities" and they kill every deer with a set of antlers they can. And everyone wonders every year why they cant kill a nice buck. Do the math people. Look at the deer mike kills consistently every year. Then ask the question, how many year and a half and two and a half year old deer are killed around his hunting area? IM fortunate enough to hunt an area where large bucks travel a tight pattern and no one else hunts frequently. MInd you, this isnt behind my house, I wish it were though. Hopefully I can keep people with lower deer standards away from my area, cause I dont know about you, but I enjoy watching smaller bucks mature to be something people dream about.

[Andy Gehle]

First of all, I'm all about doing whatever you like in regards to QDM and things of that nature. If you wanna shoot spikes and forks so you can "get your buck", hey, whatever floats your boat.

I believe Mike's point is that if EVERYONE chose to hunt in this manner, than Ohio could be PA in a heartbeat. It is just a matter of science.
This "shot my buck" mentality is exactly what caused PA the majority of their problems. Before Alt came on the scene, there were many Eastern PA counties in which 75% of the TOTAL number of bucks were harvested EACH year!!!


Figure this out.

They’re born one to one. Two out of ten have easily visible antlers (not button bucks). Now, here’s where it gets a little tricky; if fourteen out of every eighteen killed have visible antlers, how many years before Ohio becomes Pennsylvania?

It doesn’t shame me at all to point that out. If it changes just one persons opinion or makes one person stop and think, then it was worth the time it took to type it.

Here's some addittional info on PA's challenges for those who are actually interested in reading and facts and science and all that garbage:

http://www.pgc.state.pa.us/pgc/lib/pgc/deer/pdf/Management__Plan6-03.pdf

And this one is a great summary:
http://www.fieldandstream.com/fieldstream/columnists/article/0,13199,1084177,00.html

[traphunter]

I know just what you are saying. Those people who kill all those small bucks are the same ones complaining that they never see any big ones. NEver fails to crack me up.

[WILEY1]

Mike,
Nice to see that statistics class went in one ear and out the other. And I guess that Intro to Logic did also, or maybe that just wasn't a requirement (since everything I say looses you). That's probably not hard though since all you can think about is antler size. You are so shallow you can't see a great outing with family. All you can see is a lost trophy, that may never even grow to be a trophy if allowed to live for ten years. Do you seriously think because this gentleman and his family shot 14 bucks the quality of the deer herd is going to change. People have been shooting evertything with antlers as long as we've been hunting. This isn't new. Only to you new found experts! You've shot a couple bucks off your privately managed area and now you are the voice of the state. Yeah, right! What is that stupid analogy about trash? One's a fluid environment the others an inantimate object! I though you had a degree in some kind of science. Oh well, I probable lost you. But I think we lost you antler hunters a long time ago.

[geezer]

Let Me Put This In Terms You Can Understand:

A Quality Deer Is One That Is Healthy And Has No Deformities
It Can Be A:

Buck Of Any Antler Size
Button Buck
Doe
Fawn

It Has Nothing To Do With Trophy Potential

[WILEY1]

I know just what you are saying. Those people who kill all those small bucks are the same ones complaining that they never see any big ones. NEver fails to crack me up.
That's funny! I dont hear Buckslayer complaining about them not being big.
Just all you guys that are scared his family will take one from you.

[WILEY1]

You’re losing me Kyle, although that’s pretty easy (just ask wiley or sam).

What exactly does the carrying capacity of the land have to do with killing 9 bucks off of 90 acres? I don’t think anybody is saying they’re all dead. As a matter of fact, the ground might be chalk full of does and yes, bucks from somewhere will probably try to breed them…..just not the residents.
Genius. The residents probably already breed most of the mature does. You've got to really reach there Mike. Keep trying you might stretch that into place.

[WILEY1]

THE GOOD: Buckslayer got to enjoy the outdoors with his family. I’m particularly jealous that his wife hunts with him. My fanaticism towards the sport has turned my wife into a border line “anti".
Yet another arguement for Mike's management plan. Kudos Mike. Looks like your doing a fine job. So by your own arguement Buckslayers family is doing more for wildlife than yours.
Buckslayer family: 14 licenses and tags puchased and alot of P/R taxes and 14 happy sportsman and women
MRex family: 2 tags and licenses purchased and a little P/R taxes and one non-hunter

[bowhunter1023]

Buckslayer1...Congrats my man. Sounds like one hell of a deer season, and an even better time.

I support QDM, and try to follow it the best I can. However, I think that each man, woman, and child has the right to shoot whatever they damn well please. I am almost ashamed to be part of the QDM camp anymore because of hard asses like Mike Rex that have long forgotten that it ain't about the antlers. It’s about many things, but antlers are close to the bottom of the list.

(Keep in mind Mike I agree with the basic principles you are preaching).

At first, I welcomed your knowledge and expertise to the forum. I even sent you not 1, but 2 PM's complementing you and your accomplishments, and asking to pick your brain a little. Did I get any response, Nope.

This season all it seems like you have had to say to people is how they, and their accomplishments, are simply inferior to your accomplishments and you extensive knowledge of the quarry. You may have one of the biggest “Holier than Thou” attitudes we have seen on this forum yet.

Does the fact that Buckslayer1 and his family killed all those small bucks hurt the management you have done on your properties? NO! Does it make Ohio any less of a Mecca for whitetails? NO! Does it make you look bad for some reason? Shouldn’t.

If you wanna think I am ranting because I am jealous of you, go ahead a flatter yourself. I will admit that I am jealous of the bucks you have on your wall. But I am not nearly as jealous of those, as I am the land you have access to. But you can bet one thing, I will never be fully jealous of someone that looks down their nose at the success of another hunter because it doesn’t fit my scheme of the way things should be.

[Andy Gehle]

I support QDM, and try to follow it the best I can. However, I think that each man, woman, and child has the right to shoot whatever they damn well please. I am almost ashamed to be part of the QDM camp anymore because of hard asses like Mike Rex that have long forgotten that it ain't about the antlers. It’s about many things, but antlers are close to the bottom of the list.


Dude. Your connecting dots that don't exist.
All I've seen from Mike is sound management ideas and principles. QDM aint just about growing big bucks. It's about maintaining an all around quality herd.

Your interpretting some blunt facts as criticism. Try to seperate what you think is inside a man's head, who you've never met, from what is actually being said and your interpretation of those words.

People take offense too easily to any kind of contrary opinion and misinterpret it as a personal attack. It makes it difficult to maintain any kind of substance to a discussion when, at the first hint of a conflicting viewpoint, it becomes a personal battle.

[bowhunter1023]

THE GOOD: Buckslayer1 got to enjoy the outdoors with his family. I’m particularly jealous that his wife hunts with him. My fanaticism towards the sport has turned my wife into a border line “anti”.

THE BAD: Eighteen dead deer and only four does.

THE UGLY: How’d you like to hunt that 90 acre farm next year?

Your interpreting some blunt facts as criticism.

I don't consider the above statement as one containing blunt facts. That is a tongue-in-cheek criticism. My post my have come across a little hot, but I think that is totally asinine comment to make to a fellow hunter who was excited about the success he and his family shared doing something they obviously love to do.


All I've seen from Mike is sound management ideas and principles. QDM ain’t just about growing big bucks. It's about maintaining an all around quality herd.

I agree with you on this part Andy. However, I feel that he is beginning to come across a little “High and Mighty” lately. And the comment to Buckslayer1 really caught me the wrong way.

I will let Mike speak, if he wishes, before I say anything further.

[Andy Gehle]

This is silly.
I'm bowing out.....

[El Cazador Loco]

And to think I'm labled a troublemaker.....:mischeif: :whistle: ;) ;) ;) ;)

[bowhunter1023]

And to think I'm labled a troublemaker.....:mischeif: :whistle: ;) ;) ;) ;)

I have never been afraid to say whats on my mind, probably to my fault. I have never been afraid to take it, which means I ain't afraid to dish it as well.

[Tufelhundin]

Try to seperate what you think is inside a man's head, who you've never met, from what is actually being said and your interpretation of those words.




I thought this statement was hilarious....because well.......were you talk'n to the person you qouted...or, LOL...the person your defending?

[Jimmy]

I have never been afraid to say whats on my mind, probably to my fault. I have never been afraid to take it, which means I ain't afraid to dish it as well.

I think people don't like you because you're (_ _ _ _ _) fill in the blanks :D

(ATTENTION: The above sentence is a joke and is to be read as such......no thanks to Milo)

[traphunter]

JIMMY IS A _ _ _ _ _ _ (fill in the blanks)!!!!!!!!!!!:yikes: :tsk: :mischeif:

[Big H]

:help: :banghead3: :bonk: :grouphug: :bash: :coco: :confused: :rolleyes: :nono: :dizzy:

I can only use these smilies right now after the direction the thread has gone. Any words will do no good.

[mrex]

wiley 1 wrote:

Mike,
Nice to see that statistics class went in one ear and out the other. And I guess that Intro to Logic did also, or maybe that just wasn't a requirement (since everything I say looses you). Just a Chem E here Wiley. Sorry, no scientist.That's probably not hard though since all you can think about is antler size. QDM is a lot more about healthy ratios and the way nature intended than antler size. Read up on it, it’s pretty interesting stuff
You are so shallow you can't see a great outing with family. All you can see is a lost trophy, that may never even grow to be a trophy if allowed to live for ten years. Do you seriously think because this gentleman and his family shot 14 bucks the quality of the deer herd is going to change.No I don't. People have been shooting evertything with antlers as long as we've been hunting. This isn't new. Probably your most impressive statement. And man has always managed nature and the environment correctly!! Only to you new found experts! You've shot a couple bucks off your privately managed area and now you are the voice of the state. Yeah, right! I like to think of myself as the “QDM NAZI” What is that stupid analogy about trash? One's a fluid environment the others an inantimate object! You may want to consider thinking before you go using grown-up words. Here’s a word from the Merriam-Webster Dictionary that you need to know about before you can really start to sound intelligent: Analogy \ a likeness in one or more ways between things otherwise unlike I though you had a degree in some kind of science. Oh well, I probable lost you. But I think we lost you antler hunters a long time ago.No you didn’t, the price is right on this stand up comedy.

[mrex]

Let Me Put This In Terms You Can Understand:

A Quality Deer Is One That Is Healthy And Has No Deformities
It Can Be A:

Buck Of Any Antler Size
Button Buck
Doe
Fawn

It Has Nothing To Do With Trophy Potential
Geezer – You’re like powdered water--what do you add?

[mrex]

Genius. The residents probably already breed most of the mature does. You've got to really reach there Mike. Keep trying you might stretch that into place.Here’s another big word. You may want to look this up before you respond. Correlate. I’ll use it in a sentence. How does this statement correlate with the carrying capacity of the land?

[CritterGitter]

While, I like to straddle the fence on this one I will offer one final point of view.

How many of you would post about all the 1.5 yr old bass you caught this summer? I am gonna guess those would be about 10 inches or so. If you fish a quarter acre pond and take out 14 of those bass, then how many are left? How many grow on to maturity in the following year. :whistle:

Things that make ya go hmmmmmmm?

Kyle

[mrex]

Buckslayer1...Congrats my man. Sounds like one hell of a deer season, and an even better time.

I support QDM, and try to follow it the best I can. However, I think that each man, woman, and child has the right to shoot whatever they damn well please. I am almost ashamed to be part of the QDM camp anymore because of hard asses like Mike Rex that have long forgotten that it ain't about the antlers. It’s about many things, but antlers are close to the bottom of the list.

(Keep in mind Mike I agree with the basic principles you are preaching).

At first, I welcomed your knowledge and expertise to the forum. I even sent you not 1, but 2 PM's complementing you and your accomplishments, and asking to pick your brain a little. Did I get any response, Nope.

This season all it seems like you have had to say to people is how they, and their accomplishments, are simply inferior to your accomplishments and you extensive knowledge of the quarry. You may have one of the biggest “Holier than Thou” attitudes we have seen on this forum yet.

Does the fact that Buckslayer1 and his family killed all those small bucks hurt the management you have done on your properties? NO! Does it make Ohio any less of a Mecca for whitetails? NO! Does it make you look bad for some reason? Shouldn’t.

If you wanna think I am ranting because I am jealous of you, go ahead a flatter yourself. I will admit that I am jealous of the bucks you have on your wall. But I am not nearly as jealous of those, as I am the land you have access to. But you can bet one thing, I will never be fully jealous of someone that looks down their nose at the success of another hunter because it doesn’t fit my scheme of the way things should be.Bowhunter1023 – I want to sincerely apologize for not responding to your pm’s. I got an email this afternoon letting me know that someone tried to send me a pm and my mail box was full. I hadn’t checked it in a few weeks so I never got your messages. Again, that was rude of me and I apologize.

As far as the “hard ass” and “holier than thou attitude” goes. I can see where some might see it that way but that doesn’t make me wrong.

I don’t interpret anything you wrote as jealousy. I think you may read more into it than is really there. From reading some of your previous posts I think you’re probably light years ahead of me at the same age.;)

[mrex]

While, I like to straddle the fence on this one I will offer one final point of view.

How many of you would post about all the 1.5 yr old bass you caught this summer? I am gonna guess those would be about 10 inches or so. If you fish a quarter acre pond and take out 14 of those bass, then how many are left? How many grow on to maturity in the following year. :whistle:

Things that make ya go hmmmmmmm?

Kyle
Hold on a second there Kyle….an analogy between fish and mammals?? The Einstein’s among us may struggle with that.

But what if those 10” bass already spawned and there was a creek feeding the pond that originated from Lake Okeechobee and 14 ten pound bass migrated north and …….:D

[mrex]

Yet another arguement for Mike's management plan. Kudos Mike. Looks like your doing a fine job. So by your own arguement Buckslayers family is doing more for wildlife than yours.
Buckslayer family: 14 licenses and tags puchased and alot of P/R taxes and 14 happy sportsman and women
MRex family: 2 tags and licenses purchased and a little P/R taxes and one non-hunter

How did you know I'm the only person in my family to buy a license? You didn't tell our wildlife officer did you? You must have ESPN. At a minimum, you're psychic. Or is it psychotic? Anyway, how about this, thanks to damage tags (cp), my two young sons will take twice as many does this year as buckslayers posse and help feed the homeless at the same time. Sure, we’ll rack up about $1,000 in processing fees but it serves a couple good causes so we think it’s worth it.

[ohiosam]

My work here is done.:dizzy:

Change your mind? You just can't stand it that we all don't share your attitude toward Buckslayer:tsk: How long have you had these insecurities?

[buckbacks]

camp anymore because of hard asses like Mike Rex that have long forgotten that it ain't about the antlers. It’s about many things, but antlers are close to the bottom of the list.

(Keep in mind Mike I agree with the basic principles you are preaching).

At first, I welcomed your knowledge and expertise to the forum. I even sent you not 1, but 2 PM's complementing you and your accomplishments, and asking to pick your brain a little. Did I get any response, Nope.

This season all it seems like you have had to say to people is how they, and their accomplishments, are simply inferior to your accomplishments and you extensive knowledge of the quarry. You may have one of the biggest “Holier than Thou” attitudes we have seen on this forum yet.

Does the fact that Buckslayer1 and his family killed all those small bucks hurt the management you have done on your properties? NO! Does it make Ohio any less of a Mecca for whitetails? NO! Does it make you look bad for some reason? Shouldn’t.

If you wanna think I am ranting because I am jealous of you, go ahead a flatter yourself. I will admit that I am jealous of the bucks you have on your wall. But I am not nearly as jealous of those, as I am the land you have access to. But you can bet one thing, I will never be fully jealous of someone that looks down their nose at the success of another hunter because it doesn’t fit my scheme of the way things should be.

i'd tried to tell y'all about him but you wouldn't listen to me!

http://www9.incredimail.com/gcontent/letters/expressions/done_it_prev.gif (javascript:void(0);)my name is mrex.
ha ha ha laugh at it mike ok!

[mrex]

Change your mind? You just can't stand it that we all don't share your attitude toward Buckslayer:tsk: How long have you had these insecurities?Well Sigmund, it all started when I was four. This girl named Rhonda said she killed a bigger buck than me and she did it on public land. I said I couldn't see a tag in the picture. She says it's the glare from her Walmart camo shirt and I say it's photo shopped and you know the rest of the story. I've been jealous ever since.

[Big H]

Lol

[Kent Dorfman]

Very funny rex hehehe. I have read these qdm debates for over a year and I am yet to see anyone get the best of you.

[Jimmy]

Why can't I use the word "black"?

Would it have been better if I said Mexican or Jewish??

Sheeesh..............

[OLDHAT]

You know, I was getting ready to hit "send" on a reply at the birth of this thread, stopped myself and deleted it all. Basically said something to the tune of "Glad you had all the success this year, but don't count on the same for next...".

Glad I didn't get it started......hehhee, I knew someone would though!


Letting them walk is amazing though, on how many 80"+ deer you will have after about 2-3 years....I don't do QDM intentionally, I'm just a bad shot...hehe.

Now the "cup half full or empty" analogy from me is:

There may be 1-3 bucks in an area of roughly 20 different bucks that I would arrow. Should take a guy 2 years to get one of these 3 bucks. So if these bucks would have been killed on the neighboring farm next to where I hunt, I could at least say "Well, I'm glad they killed all the peckerheads, I've still got 3 deer to hunt". Now if they would have killed the 3 good ones, I'd personally have to pack up and find a new spot, and that would suck.

Oldhat

[geezer]

Geezer – You’re like powdered water--what do you add?

JUST OFFERIN YOU A DRINK SO YA CAN QUENCH YOUR THIRST

ps met a guy that works for the DOW - Bill H. said he went to high school with ya -

[WILEY1]

wiley 1 wrote:

Mike,
Nice to see that statistics class went in one ear and out the other. And I guess that Intro to Logic did also, or maybe that just wasn't a requirement (since everything I say looses you). Just a Chem E here Wiley. Sorry, no scientist.Good point! Nothing to do with Biology. Accept the degree you have in your armchair.That's probably not hard though since all you can think about is antler size. QDM is a lot more about healthy ratios and the way nature intended than antler size. Read up on it, it’s pretty interesting stuff. Exactly. Nature intended for there to be more does than bucks. Good point, read it. You didn't write it.
You are so shallow you can't see a great outing with family. All you can see is a lost trophy, that may never even grow to be a trophy if allowed to live for ten years. Do you seriously think because this gentleman and his family shot 14 bucks the quality of the deer herd is going to change.No I don't. Not going to enlighten us. That's a first. People have been shooting evertything with antlers as long as we've been hunting. This isn't new. Probably your most impressive statement. And man has always managed nature and the environment correctly!! Yes, but you would have us think it's because of some rouge Chem E. Only to you new found experts! You've shot a couple bucks off your privately managed area and now you are the voice of the state. Yeah, right! I like to think of myself as the “QDM NAZI” Well show us all your QDM BS on some of the reclaimed strip land that litters an 1/8 of the state. What is that stupid analogy about trash? One's a fluid environment the others an inantimate object! You may want to consider thinking before you go using grown-up words. Here’s a word from the Merriam-Webster Dictionary that you need to know about before you can really start to sound intelligent: Analogy \ a likeness in one or more ways between things otherwise unlike Good point an anology would show likeness. There's none in your comment about the Mcd's litter and overharvesting of bucks. They are completely opposite. I though you had a degree in some kind of science. Oh well, I probable lost you. But I think we lost you antler hunters a long time ago.No you didn’t, the price is right on this stand up comedy. Agreed, you are a joke. Thank God For Mike. Before him, Ohio only had four pointers.

[WILEY1]

Here’s another big word. You may want to look this up before you respond. Correlate. I’ll use it in a sentence. How does this statement correlate with the carrying capacity of the land?
You realize that makes no sense. Right? However there is an inverted correlation between the size of a hunters gun and the size of the antlers he pursues.

[Tufelhundin]

JUST OFFERIN YOU A DRINK SO YA CAN QUENCH YOUR THIRST

ps met a guy that works for the DOW - Bill H. said he went to high school with ya -


:shhh:

[mrex]

wiley 1 wrote:

Mike,
Nice to see that statistics class went in one ear and out the other. And I guess that Intro to Logic did also, or maybe that just wasn't a requirement (since everything I say looses you). Just a Chem E here Wiley. Sorry, no scientist.Good point! Nothing to do with Biology. Accept the degree you have in your armchair.That's probably not hard though since all you can think about is antler size. QDM is a lot more about healthy ratios and the way nature intended than antler size. Read up on it, it’s pretty interesting stuff. Exactly. Nature intended for there to be more does than bucks. Good point, read it. You didn't write it.
You are so shallow you can't see a great outing with family. All you can see is a lost trophy, that may never even grow to be a trophy if allowed to live for ten years. Do you seriously think because this gentleman and his family shot 14 bucks the quality of the deer herd is going to change.No I don't. Not going to enlighten us. That's a first. People have been shooting evertything with antlers as long as we've been hunting. This isn't new. Probably your most impressive statement. And man has always managed nature and the environment correctly!! Yes, but you would have us think it's because of some rouge Chem E. Only to you new found experts! You've shot a couple bucks off your privately managed area and now you are the voice of the state. Yeah, right! I like to think of myself as the “QDM NAZI” Well show us all your QDM BS on some of the reclaimed strip land that litters an 1/8 of the state. What is that stupid analogy about trash? One's a fluid environment the others an inantimate object! You may want to consider thinking before you go using grown-up words. Here’s a word from the Merriam-Webster Dictionary that you need to know about before you can really start to sound intelligent: Analogy \ a likeness in one or more ways between things otherwise unlike Good point an anology would show likeness. There's none in your comment about the Mcd's litter and overharvesting of bucks. They are completely opposite. I though you had a degree in some kind of science. Oh well, I probable lost you. But I think we lost you antler hunters a long time ago.No you didn’t, the price is right on this stand up comedy. Agreed, you are a joke. Thank God For Mike. Before him, Ohio only had four pointers.



all bun?:coco:

[BuckEyeCam]

http://www.buckeyecam.com/images/chair.gif

http://www.buckeyecam.com/images/sword.gif


http://www.buckeyecam.com/images/stick.gif

[Big H]

:yeahthat:

BuckeyeCam, dude let me know where to get the one on the couch eating popcorn.

HMMMMMM.... Lets see.. We all know who MRex is, and his accomplishments, and his opponent, in the other corner, has a public profile that states he is 8 years old, and an armchair biologist.


I am not sure which person has more credibility, could someone please help me.....
Sincerely,

:confused: in Medina, Ohio

[OHBOW76]

Not to take anything away from his families sucess, but I would have been just as impressed if some of thsoe deer were does. I am sure soem of the memebers of hsi family had opportunities at soem does. Rather than shoot abunch of yearling bucks so you can tack the antlers up in your garage or pose for pictures, how about doing the landowner, habitat, and herd a littel service and take soem does.

I dont have any problems with how people want to hunt, I just dont get why in soem peoples minds they rather shoot a 5 pointer than a doe. They taste the same, your not going to get it mounted, and it has no mystical powers, all you get out of it is saying "I got a buck this year"! I coudl undersatnd it if you hav enever shot a buck before or have very few under your belt, other than that it just makes no sense.

[Jimmy]

Not to take anything away from his families sucess, but I would have been just as impressed if some of thsoe deer were does. I am sure soem of the memebers of hsi family had opportunities at soem does. Rather than shoot abunch of yearling bucks so you can tack the antlers up in your garage or pose for pictures, how about doing the landowner, habitat, and herd a littel service and take soem does.

I dont have any problems with how people want to hunt, I just dont get why in soem peoples minds they rather shoot a 5 pointer than a doe. They taste the same, your not going to get it mounted, and it has no mystical powers, all you get out of it is saying "I got a buck this year"! I coudl undersatnd it if you hav enever shot a buck before or have very few under your belt, other than that it just makes no sense.

That's what we don't know. There hasn't been any info from Buckslayer about all this.

Congrats to him and his family regardless of what they harvested.

[bowhunter1023]

... other than that it just makes no sense.

What if you only get to hunt a few days each year, you do it for the meat, and the first clean, ethical shot you get is on a 5-point? You don't give 2 sheetz about QDM, and have never given any thought to the herd because you are not that advanced in your hunting yet, or just don’t have the desire to manage the herd for one reason or another?

I agree that more does should have been shot...If they care about QDM. If they just wanna hunt, have a good and safe time, and put meat in the freezer...Then who am I, or Mike Rex, or Andy, or you OHBOW76 to tell them what they can or cannot, or should or should not shoot?

All I am standing up for here, is a mans right to shoot what he pleases. It is not written in the Rules & Regs that you must shoot does, although some of us would have it that way. It just pisses me off that some of you are so high on yourselves, or QDM, or what ever it may be that you cannot pat a guy on the shoulder and say "Congrats man. Glad to see you had a good time."

Notice I didn't say "Good job." I agree it was not that according to QDM. However, I did not ask Buckslayer1 and his family to manage my 90 acres. And if the landowners they hunt on don't care...Then he is not obligated in the least to do so.

That's what we don't know. There hasn't been any info from Buckslayer about all this.

Congrats to him and his family regardless of what they harvested.
http://www.freesmileys.org/emo/signs009.gif (http://www.freesmileys.org)

[Ohio Sportsman]

Members need to stay within the confines of the Code of Conduct, meaning do not slam someone for their personal beliefs of how to hunt. Just because one does it one way and one another does not mean they are wrong. As long as it does not break any wildlife violations, I feel each hunter should hunt how they see fit but within a moral code of outdoor ethics. A great debate of issues is going on here, let's keep it civil. Now you see why I don't comment on most of these issues, your damned if you do and damned if you don't. :D

Who set's the moral code of hunting ethics, that's something you have to ask deep inside your soul and I can't answer for nobody but myself. ;)

[ohiosam]

Very funny rex hehehe. I have read these qdm debates for over a year and I am yet to see anyone get the best of you.

I'm not debating QDM. What I have a problem with is Buckslayer and his family did nothing legally or ethically wrong yet some here want to make their success a bad thing.

To campare what they did to littering is stupid. Mike was comparing a legal activity to an illegal activity.

[Jeff Goebel]

Mike is only calling a spade a spade. Going 14 for 14 sounds like a lot of fun. Demolition derbies are fun too. for a while...Take it from a guy that hunted PA's Northern Tier for 17 years, at the end of the derby, there's always golf.
Rex and I have had our disagreements. Although he's a hornwhore;) and I'm a hardheaded traditionalist, our QDM views are parallel.
Last year, Mike kindly told me to quit whining about the mismanagement of my local deer herd, get my head out of my ass, and do something about it. So be it.
With a lot of bar and chain oil, a few acres in the Scioto River CRP program, and a little bit of salad, we are having the best season on our farm in over decade. I can't wait until next year.
I'm not here to take sides, just to throw in some reason. Mike's message is fact whether we like it or not. Everyone benefits from good management, the headophiles, the meat hunters, the trad gang, the kids, and even the damn non-residents.:cool:
Mike may come across as an a$$hole:biggrin: , but if I run into him anytime soon here in the papermill, I believe I'll have to refer to him as Mr. A$$hole.:)

[WILEY1]

OK. I'll play along. Let's say Big H (Who has nothing on his public profile) gets his wish and MRex is our new Chief of the DOW. Mike's new shoot from the hip QDM plan calls for no bucks w/ visible antlers onder 120 class. So we all do what Mike's infinite wisdom tells us to.
We wait a few years and...Bam! There's bucks everywhere. 8's, 6's, 4's, even some larger one's sprinkled in. Unfortunately Mike's plan didn't account for the inferior 3 1/2 year old five point that's been nailing all the does and keeping his inferior "genetics" (that big word Mike likes to use) in the breeding stock. Thanks Mike those does are all gonna be spittin' out clones of our lovely five point. That will never grow to 120+ and make the shooting list.
And in another part of the state the land is nearly 50% re-claimed stripmine with mostly low quality food availible.
Since genetics and nutrition are the two main factors in antler development....I'm starting to see the light from that train that's about to hit us.....Bam! There it is.
Buy this time, Mike is turning alot of hunters off the sport. And now with the decreased revenue from less hunters, the third critical factor takes hold. The DOW can no longer afford to acquire new lands, and the habitat loss grows exponentially.
Manageing the states deer herd is a little more complicated than what you cook up in your petri dish down there in Athens County Mike. There's always a curveball waiting on you.
In closeing my rant, consider this. Ohio is far more populated than Iowa or Kansas. They have nearly no scared earth (compared to us). And our herd is running right with them. I'd say this wheel isn't as squeaky as you'd have us think.
Another fine job by the people that have degrees in wildlife management. Oh, by the way Big H, I'm one of them. But that's irrelavant. Take my information for what it is. Not because whom it came from.

[WILEY1]

Man. If I knew the "Duke" was reading this. I would have tightened it up a little.

[WILEY1]

Not to take anything away from his families sucess, but I would have been just as impressed if some of thsoe deer were does.
Just maybe, they are not hunting to impress you. Ever thought about that?

[Jimmy]

Man, WILEY, you've been in a REALLY bad mood lately. :(

Anything I could do or post that could turn that frown upside down?? :idea:

[WILEY1]

You know, I was getting ready to hit "send" on a reply at the birth of this thread, stopped myself and deleted it all. Basically said something to the tune of "Glad you had all the success this year, but don't count on the same for next...".
Oldhat
Why won't they. I didn't hear him saying anything about shooting all the button bucks. Won't they be fours, sixes and small eights next year?

[Jeff Goebel]

Jimmy, I ain't sure about Wiley, but a couple of Brittany's upskirt shots might help me through the day...:bouncy:

[Jimmy]

Jimmy, I ain't sure about Wiley, but a couple of Brittany's upskirt shots might help me through the day...:bouncy:

I'll start a thread in the Sound off forum :biggrin:

[WILEY1]

Man, WILEY, you've been in a REALLY bad mood lately. :(

Anything I could do or post that could turn that frown upside down?? :idea:Well. I agree with Jeff, but this is supposed to be a family friendly site. So put some Tracy Lords up here.

[WILEY1]

Man, WILEY, you've been in a REALLY bad mood lately. :(

Anything I could do or post that could turn that frown upside down?? :idea:
Does it come off that way. Man. I really didn't mean to upset anybody.:D

[Big H]

Jimmy, I ain't sure about Wiley, but a couple of Brittany's upskirt shots might help me through the day...:bouncy:

I've got those, someone E-mailed em to me this week. Not very impressive.

[WILEY1]

http://www.buckeyecam.com/images/chair.gif

http://www.buckeyecam.com/images/sword.gif


http://www.buckeyecam.com/images/stick.gif
Buckeye,
Is that a tree branch your sticking in my ear?

[Big H]

Wiley,

Sorry, I will have to update my profile.

[Jeff Goebel]

I've got those, someone E-mailed em to me this week. Not very impressive.

Okay then, Tracy Lords works for me...:mischeif:

[WILEY1]

Very funny rex hehehe. I have read these qdm debates for over a year and I am yet to see anyone get the best of you.
That's the problem Kent. You guys blow up this guys ego, so now he thinks he is the voice of QDM. Little does he know. Ohio's had this ball in motion before he came along. But with groupies like you. He'll keep giving speaches to amish folks.
Of all the people to talk QDM or any specie management to. HEHEHE. Now that's a joke!

[Big H]

OK Wiley, it's updated. Now don't be going and getting this thread locked, it has been an interesting one so far.:tsk:

[WILEY1]

Wiley,

Sorry, I will have to update my profile.
There's no need for apology. You were just calling me out for my profile. And you had nothing in yours. I don't base my opinion on what you do. I base mine on the integrity of your statements. Everybody has something to add to the pot. You don't need a degree to know things. Some things you can't learn in school.

[Big H]

There's no need for apology. You were just calling me out for my profile. And you had nothing in yours. I don't base my opinion on what you do. I base mine on the integrity of your statements. Everybody has something to add to the pot. You don't need a degree to know things. Some things you can't learn in school.

Well said, especially coming from an 8 year old. ;)

[WILEY1]

Well said, especially coming from an 8 year old. ;)
I guess it's from all the in-breeding.:D

[Big H]

I even figured out how to give myself an avatar. :D

[BuckEyeCam]

Nice avatar - can't see the tag though http://www.buckeyecam.com/images/puter.gif

[Big H]

:cheeky-smiley-022: Very Funny. It is on the right beam, held in place by a WHITE zip tie, since it is a temporary landowner tag. Try blowing it up 450% and get back to me.

[BuckEyeCam]

Hey, it's your story tell it any way you want http://www.buckeyecam.com/images/guns.gif

[Big H]

Are you going to keep teasing me with those cool smilies, or tell me where to get them?

[BuckEyeCam]

Buckeye,
Is that a tree branch your sticking in my ear?
uh, yes, yes it is.....

[BuckEyeCam]

Are you going to keep teasing me with those cool smilies, or tell me where to get them?
http://www.buckeyecam.com/images/laughin.gif
Just right click on them and you can save them.....

[roundhouse]

i'm one the guys who reads a bunch and posts a little. anybody who defends a group of hunters that shoots 18 deer and 14 of them are bucks is just as narrow minded as the hunters who shot them.

if all of us hunted this way we would have to look up to PA. mrex's point is well taken and can't be argued against unless you just like to see your thoughts in print.

some of the jokers who call mr. rex out refer to him as an expert in a bad way. i will tell you a story. i first listened to mike rex 7 years ago in a bass pro shops store in chicago. i was visiting friends in milwaukee and we stopped in the store because there was a deer hunting seminar going on. the speakers were larry weisune and some guy from athens ohio named mike rex. being from athens county myself and having read many of mr. rex's articles published in north american whitetail and other articles and books written about him, i was interested in what he had to say, mikes talk was one of the best i have ever heard. since that time, mike has been gracious enough to invite my brother and me into his home twice to score our deer.
it seems you can't pick up a magazine, newspaper or watch a hunting show that has anything to do with deer hunting in ohio without something about mike rex in it. pick up this months wild ohio. i read a feature article on wildlife management 10 years ago in the columbus dispatch all about mike rex and what he does to improve his ground. people pay to hear what he has to say. how many of you know it all's who try to call him out can say the same thing? i thought so.
if mike rex isn't an expert on deer hunting and deer management in ohio then who is?

one more thing. everybody knows who mike rex is but he still has the cohonies to speak the truth, even if it's painful. some of you talk tough hidden behind your keyboards and computer screens.

[bowhunter1023]

...it seems you can't pick up a magazine, newspaper or watch a hunting show that has anything to do with deer hunting in ohio without something about mike rex in it...

Thats funny I eat, sleep, and breath this stuff, and have for some time, and I had never heard of Mike 'til last year when he connected on the buck of a lifetime. (Not to mentioned I lived in his backyard for 4 years and was heavily involved in gun and hunting clubs in the Athens areas and never once saw or heard his name.) That doesn't mean he wasn't out there, I just failed to notice that he was on the same level as Larry Weishun.

...ne more thing. everybody knows who mike rex is but he still has the cohonies to speak the truth even if it's painful

Very true...He speaks his mind.

...some of you talk tough hidden behind your keyboards and computer screens.

I liked it better when you read and didn't talk. I will say more to a man's face than I will on here because I am able to use gestures, facial expressions, and the like to get my point across. And when he speaks I get the same. It has nothing to do with being tough and hidden behing my keys and screem.

[Big H]

[QUOTE=bowhunter1023]Thats funny I eat, sleep, and breath this stuff, and have for some time, and I had never heard of Mike 'til last year when he connected on the buck of a lifetime. (Not to mentioned I lived in his backyard for 4 years and was heavily involved in gun and hunting clubs in the Athens areas and never once saw or heard his name.) That doesn't mean he wasn't out there, I just failed to notice that he was on the same level as Larry Weishun.



I am not going to defend Rex, since I have seen that he is able to do that well enough on his own. :D But if you have, as you quote above, eat, sleep and breathe this stuff and you have never heard of Mike Rex before last year, you must have been sleeping quite a bit. I have never met the man, but he seems to know of what he speaks. Maybe some don't like how he comes across, but it cannot be said that he doesn't know what he is talking about. The proof is in the pudding so to speak. ;)

[Andy Gehle]

No offense to Mike (and I know he'll get this), but who gives a crap about Mike Rex?
Now I don't mean it THAT way, but what I mean is who cares if the words come from JoeScreenname or MRex? They should mean the same.
And Mike's words are spot on. BUT, what seems to happen is many react differently because of who the author is and NOT due to the content of the statement.
That's whats going on with you guys getting your bag all chapped over Mike....it has very little to do with what is being said, but instead very much to do with who is saying it.

Does that make sense?

BTW Mike, I do indeed give exactly one crap about you. LOL!! ;)

[bowhunter1023]

O don't get me wrong...I am not saying he doesn't know what he is talking about, cause I think he is a very knowledgeable guy who knows waaaaay more about all of this than I do. What I am saying, I that I did not realize Mike was well known in the National level, and was held in the same regards as a Legend like Larry Weishun.

Since I will be gone for a few days, and I will undoubtedly get hammers with no chance to reply, I would like to clarify a little. I agree with almost everything Mike has to say. However, he does come across as being better than the rest, whether intended, or not. What set me off initially was how he poo pooed on Buckslayer1 and his family over something so petty. Let the man do as he wishes...Would it be too hard to congratulate a man for accomplishments he is proud of?

I fully realize I come across differently than I really am. (I am combative by nature, but I am not an ******* about it.) Its hard not to come across a certain way on here because there is no facial expressions, gesture, and only a small amount of emotion involved. I would like to apologize to Mike if I said anything too personal and do not mean to demean his accomplishments. I know when a fight is futile, and it has become that to me. I have spoken my piece and I offer anyone to send me a PM if you wanna bash me, or pick my brain, or just wanna bs. Thanks...Have a good weekend fellas.

[mrex]

i'm one the guys who reads a bunch and posts a little. anybody who defends a group of hunters that shoots 18 deer and 14 of them are bucks is just as narrow minded as the hunters who shot them.

if all of us hunted this way we would have to look up to PA. mrex's point is well taken and can't be argued against unless you just like to see your thoughts in print.

some of the jokers who call mr. rex out refer to him as an expert in a bad way. i will tell you a story. i first listened to mike rex 7 years ago in a bass pro shops store in chicago. i was visiting friends in milwaukee and we stopped in the store because there was a deer hunting seminar going on. the speakers were larry weisune and some guy from athens ohio named mike rex. being from athens county myself and having read many of mr. rex's articles published in north american whitetail and other articles and books written about him, i was interested in what he had to say, mikes talk was one of the best i have ever heard. since that time, mike has been gracious enough to invite my brother and me into his home twice to score our deer.
it seems you can't pick up a magazine, newspaper or watch a hunting show that has anything to do with deer hunting in ohio without something about mike rex in it. pick up this months wild ohio. i read a feature article on wildlife management 10 years ago in the columbus dispatch all about mike rex and what he does to improve his ground. people pay to hear what he has to say. how many of you know it all's who try to call him out can say the same thing? i thought so.
if mike rex isn't an expert on deer hunting and deer management in ohio then who is?

one more thing. everybody knows who mike rex is but he still has the cohonies to speak the truth, even if it's painful. some of you talk tough hidden behind your keyboards and computer screens.

roundhouse - Thanks for the plug. Hey, you left out the part about me winning the N.Canton Invitational Wrestling Tournament back in 1976. Anyway, checks in the mail.;)

[mrex]

OK. I'll play along. Let's say Big H (Who has nothing on his public profile) gets his wish and MRex is our new Chief of the DOW. Mike's new shoot from the hip QDM plan calls for no bucks w/ visible antlers onder 120 class. So we all do what Mike's infinite wisdom tells us to.
We wait a few years and...Bam! There's bucks everywhere. 8's, 6's, 4's, even some larger one's sprinkled in. Unfortunately Mike's plan didn't account for the inferior 3 1/2 year old five point that's been nailing all the does and keeping his inferior "genetics" (that big word Mike likes to use) in the breeding stock. Thanks Mike those does are all gonna be spittin' out clones of our lovely five point. That will never grow to 120+ and make the shooting list.
And in another part of the state the land is nearly 50% re-claimed stripmine with mostly low quality food availible.
Since genetics and nutrition are the two main factors in antler development....I'm starting to see the light from that train that's about to hit us.....Bam! There it is.
Buy this time, Mike is turning alot of hunters off the sport. And now with the decreased revenue from less hunters, the third critical factor takes hold. The DOW can no longer afford to acquire new lands, and the habitat loss grows exponentially.
Manageing the states deer herd is a little more complicated than what you cook up in your petri dish down there in Athens County Mike. There's always a curveball waiting on you.
In closeing my rant, consider this. Ohio is far more populated than Iowa or Kansas. They have nearly no scared earth (compared to us). And our herd is running right with them. I'd say this wheel isn't as squeaky as you'd have us think.
Another fine job by the people that have degrees in wildlife management. Oh, by the way Big H, I'm one of them. But that's irrelavant. Take my information for what it is. Not because whom it came from.

Finally you say something we can talk about! It may be a pile of dodo and you put more words in my mouth than come out, but at least it’s something.

First, Mike will never be the Chief of the DOW. Now, if he keeps the right political connections, the GOP gets back in the Governers mansion and venus aligns with mars, he does have an outside chance of being appointed Director of the ODNR. In which case he’ll appoint a chief. There’s a much better chance of him making the wildlife council but even that’s a stretch.

To continue our play along, Mike is not in favor of antler restrictions of any kind. Never has been.

Mikes first order of business, if it hasn’t already happened, will be to stick it to the out of staters by doubling their license fees. At the rate this segment of the hunter population is increasing, this should dramatically help offset the $ lost in the reduction of antlerless tag fees that Mike will also implement.

Mike is well aware that genetics in a wild deer population are almost impossible to impact through harvest targets. He does however, realize that the way to control escalating deer numbers is through the harvest of antlerless deer, most notably does. This will not only appease the insurance commission and farm bureau but should please the non-hunting public as well. Increasing the doe harvest will also help to “chlorinate” the gene pool.

This is by no means an easy fix as button bucks make up a substantial portion of the antlerless population and are usually the first to die. An over harvest of antlerless deer would be the same as throwing the baby out with the bath water. These less expensive doe tags would be sold accordingly.

In conclusion, if Mike is calling the shots, Ohio will remain a one buck per year state and the buckslayers of this world will continue to operate business as usual. Mike believes that education is the key to pulling any group up by its boot straps. This is why he continued to debate guys like wiley in his previous life.

[mrex]

Take my information for what it is. Not because whom it came from.
That's what people say who have nothing behind them.

[buckbacks]

Well Sigmund, it all started when I was four. This girl named Rhonda said she killed a bigger buck than me and she did it on public land. I said I couldn't see a tag in the picture. She says it's the glare from her Walmart camo shirt and I say it's photo shopped and you know the rest of the story. I've been jealous ever since.

that just goes to show you a girl named rhonda can kill a bigger buck than you on public land with a walmart camo shirt on and yes you should be jealous.

[Jimmy]

Hey, Mike.....how can I get my whites whiter and colors brighter??? ;)

[Big H]

that just goes to show you a girl named rhonda can kill a bigger buck than you on public land with a walmart camo shirt on and yes you should be jealous.

:dizzy: buckbacks, why are you so angry? Can you not look past your personal issues with Mike and read what he is saying? Not necessarily Mike himself, but folks with the same basic ideas are why Ohio is where it is today. This state could have very easily took management lessons from our neighboring states early on, and we would be in the same boat as WV and Pa. The DOW has always to my knowledge encouraged Ohio hunters to shoot does. This was based on sound management philosophy, as has been pointed out numerous times by Rex and others. Ohio hunters embraced this philosophy, and we are now where we are today. In my opinion Ohio is the envy of many other states as far as our record for producing trophy whitetails and our management of the deer herd. Could it be better? Sure, but on the other hand, it could be a whole lot worse if the deer herd would have been managed statewide like some of our neighbors. Why didn't you go hunt Pa.? Or West Virginia? In Pa., they hired a biologist, to help them improve their deer herd, then ran him out of the state because they didn't like the results. Now, over the past couple of years, the guys that I know that hunt Pa., are saying that they are seeing better quality animals. Pa. had (IMHO)the same potential as Ohio to produce trophy class animals, but through sheer mismanagement of the deer herd, they now have a long road to travel to get it back to how it should be. Please understand, that I am not talking about the mountain areas of the state, but the agricultural areas, that are similar to Ohio. You came to Ohio for the chance to kill a mature buck. You accomplished that, and I have said congrats. Buckslayers family has decided to hunt the way they do, and that is their decision. Congrats to them also. The whole point here is that many Ohioan's are proud of our deer herd and the world class bucks that are grown here, but if the majority of Ohio hunters, hunted like the Buckslayers do statewide, as the hunters in Pa. have for generations, you would not have been coming here for the opportunity to kill the buck that you did. And there is my ramble for the day.

[deerhunt45]

that just goes to show you a girl named rhonda can kill a bigger buck than you on public land with a walmart camo shirt on and yes you should be jealous.

:coco:

[buckbacks]

:dizzy: buckbacks, why are so angry?

because i have no respect for this man(mrex) he is nothing more than a know it all and it aint gettin him no where. if he's as great as you people say, he be right there with larry, stan potts, greg miller and the like. he is a wanna be superstar. I had never heard of the man until a two months ago but I've known of these others for years. mike need to take his head out of his arse and let people do what they want. him head of odnr would be bad. he thinks 22,000 non residents are putting a hurting on ohio. i bet those 22,000 bring more money into this state for hunting than 100,000 residents and he don't like it. don't worry mike I'm not trying to find out where you hunt or how close I can get. I'm happy huntin whatever public is out there. if ohio becomes a non big buck state then I can go somewhere else. he really like's to push his views on everyone. If his word was gold (qdm,genetics, etc)than all this other stuff everyone talks about will be a lot worse(trespassing, leased land,big business, etc.) ohio has it pretty good right now (from outside lookin in) and rex's plan could screw it up. It's ok to do what he wants on his land but statewide is a whole other can of worms. you people just don't know how easy your herd could be wiped out up there. when you can kill 100,000 plus deer in 1 week I'd be scared to let anyone hunt anymore and for anything else.
I think qdm is about keeping the herd in balance with what the land can sustain. not about making big bucks. and mike if every deer grows as big as you want them, your 200" will be lost in the bunch and people will forget about you. Is that what you want? everyone to have access to the same deer as you? i don't think so, you are too greedy for that.

[ohiosam]

Finally you say something we can talk about! It may be a pile of dodo and you put more words in my mouth than come out, but at least it’s something.

First, Mike will never be the Chief of the DOW. Now, if he keeps the right political connections, the GOP gets back in the Governers mansion and venus aligns with mars, he does have an outside chance of being appointed Director of the ODNR. In which case he’ll appoint a chief. There’s a much better chance of him making the wildlife council but even that’s a stretch.

To continue our play along, Mike is not in favor of antler restrictions of any kind. Never has been.

Mikes first order of business, if it hasn’t already happened, will be to stick it to the out of staters by doubling their license fees. At the rate this segment of the hunter population is increasing, this should dramatically help offset the $ lost in the reduction of antlerless tag fees that Mike will also implement.

Mike is well aware that genetics in a wild deer population are almost impossible to impact through harvest targets. He does however, realize that the way to control escalating deer numbers is through the harvest of antlerless deer, most notably does. This will not only appease the insurance commission and farm bureau but should please the non-hunting public as well. Increasing the doe harvest will also help to “chlorinate” the gene pool.

This is by no means an easy fix as button bucks make up a substantial portion of the antlerless population and are usually the first to die. An over harvest of antlerless deer would be the same as throwing the baby out with the bath water. These less expensive doe tags would be sold accordingly.

In conclusion, if Mike is calling the shots, Ohio will remain a one buck per year state and the buckslayers of this world will continue to operate business as usual. Mike believes that education is the key to pulling any group up by its boot straps. This is why he continued to debate guys like wiley in his previous life.

Now that Mike I agree with:)

[Big H]

I think Mike needs to sacrifice his job, his family, and everything else he does so he can have a TV show, so guys like buckbacks will know who he is. How about it Mike? The guys that you are talking about are merely guys that have decided to make hunting their business. Just because they have a TV show, does not make them idols for us to look up to. What they say is not gospel either. But, if you listen to what most of them are saying, it is basically the same as Rex. I am talking about deer management philosophy.

[Tufelhundin]

Our family group of Ohio deer hunters went 14 for 14 on Bucks this year. They were all bagged from stands no deer drives. 13 taken in Ashtabula Co and 1 in Trumbull Co. and all checked in at Monty's Mosquito carry out in Trumbull Co.
My wife and her brother Russell both scored on Saturday Dec. 2. Also 4 does were taken in Archery season and none during gun season. 9 bucks came off of 1 farm.

Archery Bucks

Margie 5 point- Buckslayer1 sister
Amanda 14 point- Might make Ohio big Buck
Dave 5 point
Jason 5 point
Allen 6 point
Andrew 7 point -My son
Alex 7 point- My son
Mike 8 point Buckslayer1

Gun Bucks

Matt 5 point
Thelma 6 point 22 inch spread- Buckslayer1 -74 year old Mother
Ray 6 point -Buckslayer1 Dad
Melanie 8 point
Melinda 8 point -Buckslayer1 Wife
Russell 9 point


SOUNDS LIKE YOU AND YOUR FAMILY HAD A GREAT TIME AND EVERYONE DIDNT WASTE THERE MONEY ON TAGS NOT USED!! I'LL BE GLAD TO SPEND TIME AND HUNT WITH MY FAMILY AS WELL GOT ABOUT TWO MORE WEEKS. HERES TO YOU AND YOUR SUCCESS.

[deerhunt45]

because i have no respect for this man(mrex) Have you ever met this man? he is nothing more than a know it all and it aint gettin him no where. From what I know and read, Mike is very educated and dignified in his pursuits. if he's as great as you people say, he be right there with larry, stan potts, greg miller and the like. he is a wanna be superstar. Take your head out of the sand. I had never heard of the man until a two months ago but I've known of these others for years. Oh, you know Stan Potts? Doesn't he hunt with Tom Miranda alot? mike need to take his head out of his arse and let people do what they want. How is Mike an impediment to anybody? him head of odnr would be bad. he thinks 22,000 non residents are putting a hurting on ohio. i bet those 22,000 bring more money into this state for hunting than 100,000 residents and he don't like it. Got any facts to back that up? Don't bet your farm ;) . don't worry mike I'm not trying to find out where you hunt or how close I can get. I'm happy huntin whatever public is out there. Glad you are happy about something. if ohio becomes a non big buck state then I can go somewhere else. No comment. he really like's to push his views on everyone. mrex isn't pushing, he's sharing. You just refuse to view his posts as such. If his word was gold (qdm,genetics, etc)than all this other stuff everyone talks about will be a lot worse(trespassing, leased land,big business, etc.) ohio has it pretty good right now (from outside lookin in)(but we got our heads in our arse and don't know anything) and rex's plan could screw it up. And I'm sure you have a better one. It's ok to do what he wants on his land but statewide is a whole other can of worms. Such an overused cliche. you people just don't know how easy your herd could be wiped out up there. What in the world would lead you to believe we don't know anything? when you can kill 100,000 plus deer in 1 week I'd be scared to let anyone hunt anymore and for anything else. No comment.
I think qdm is about keeping the herd in balance with what the land can sustain. You think? not about making big bucks. and mike if every deer grows as big as you want them, your 200" will be lost in the bunch and people will forget about you. Is that what you want? everyone to have access to the same deer as you? i don't think so, you are too greedy for that. I ask again buckbacks, do you know mrex or have you met him?

As you can tell buckbacks I did not care for your opinion nor your post in general. IMO, you sir come across as the "know-it-all". You don't even live in the GREAT State of Ohio. You are welcome here, but please, you are not our savior and you don't have the answers to all the questions and I don't agree with your agenda, including your personal attacks on another member of this forum. Your jealousy seems to grow with each post. Again, get your head out of the sand (another over used cliche) and see what you can learn from Mike and everyone else here. Get out of the attack mode my friend. You got a hitch in your git-a-long :nono:

45

p.s...on the original topic, I again thank Buckslayer1 for sharing his family's hunting season with us all. I am looking forward to the pics!

[Ohio Sportsman]

Listen folks,

Quit slamming people out in the open forum, next one who does it get's a free 2 week vacation from posting on the forum. This is the 2nd warning, there is not going to be a 3rd. If you don't like what someone does or is, take it to the private message system and hash it out.

You run one time, you got yourself a set of chains. You run twice you got yourself two sets. You ain't gonna need no third set, 'cause you gonna get your mind right.

[deerhunt45]

OS, I hate to have to step into threads like this, don't you? :(

Let's all try a little PMA (positive mental attitude) :D

I hate having to flash my badge all the time (and show my hand ;) )

http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m239/deerhunt45/80_12.jpg

[Ohio Sportsman]

Yea it's a bummer but enough is enough, there's no sense in it happening at all and it's hard to believe that it's coming from people who are supposed to be adults. There is no turf when it comes to the rules being broken, thats the code of the west. :)

[El Cazador Loco]

I read an article or saw a thing on TV a few months ago about shooting managment bucks on the King Ranch in Texas.

I remember them saying that shooting inferior bucks actually had negative impacts on the herd.

[hunTer06]

I think a certain someone on here seems a bit jealous of another certain someone but doesnt wanna admit it.

[WILEY1]

Finally you say something we can talk about! It may be a pile of dodo and you put more words in my mouth than come out, but at least it’s something.

First, Mike will never be the Chief of the DOW. Now, if he keeps the right political connections, the GOP gets back in the Governers mansion and venus aligns with mars, he does have an outside chance of being appointed Director of the ODNR. In which case he’ll appoint a chief. There’s a much better chance of him making the wildlife council but even that’s a stretch.

To continue our play along, Mike is not in favor of antler restrictions of any kind. Never has been.

Mikes first order of business, if it hasn’t already happened, will be to stick it to the out of staters by doubling their license fees. At the rate this segment of the hunter population is increasing, this should dramatically help offset the $ lost in the reduction of antlerless tag fees that Mike will also implement. Are you afraid of out of state hunters for some reason. This is a real good arguement. What is this? Are you saying out-of-staters know something we don't. Mrex is full of $_it. Have they already banned you from their states?

Mike is well aware that genetics in a wild deer population are almost impossible to impact through harvest targets. He does however, realize that the way to control escalating deer numbers is through the harvest of antlerless deer, most notably does. No Mike the way to control an escalating deer herd is to increase the kill. Which the state does as needed. This will not only appease the insurance commission and farm bureau but should please the non-hunting public as well. Increasing the doe harvest will also help to “chlorinate” the gene pool. How? Buy reducing the number of mothers in an area. That sounds more like an arguement for in-breeding than it does for diversity.

This is by no means an easy fix as button bucks make up a substantial portion of the antlerless population and are usually the first to die. An over harvest of antlerless deer would be the same as throwing the baby out with the bath water. These less expensive doe tags would be sold accordingly.

In conclusion, if Mike is calling the shots, Ohio will remain a one buck per year state and the buckslayers of this world will continue to operate business as usual. Mike believes that education is the key to pulling any group up by its boot straps. This is why he continued to debate guys like wiley in his previous life. Well this is this life. And aside from the smoke and mirrors you haven't given us much to go on. And speading misinformation is far worse than no information.

[mrex]

WILEY1 writes


[Originally Posted by mrex
Finally you say something we can talk about! It may be a pile of dodo and you put more words in my mouth than come out, but at least it’s something.

First, Mike will never be the Chief of the DOW. Now, if he keeps the right political connections, the GOP gets back in the Governers mansion and venus aligns with mars, he does have an outside chance of being appointed Director of the ODNR. In which case he’ll appoint a chief. There’s a much better chance of him making the wildlife council but even that’s a stretch.

To continue our play along, Mike is not in favor of antler restrictions of any kind. Never has been.

Mikes first order of business, if it hasn’t already happened, will be to stick it to the out of staters by doubling their license fees. At the rate this segment of the hunter population is increasing, this should dramatically help offset the $ lost in the reduction of antlerless tag fees that Mike will also implement. Are you afraid of out of state hunters for some reason. This is a real good arguement. What is this? Are you saying out-of-staters know something we don't. Mrex is full of $_it. Have they already banned you from their states?..... No, but there’s a good chance they’ll ban you from this site for your inability to debate a topic without using foul language. They say that swearing is the sign of a lack of knowledge.

Mike is well aware that genetics in a wild deer population are almost impossible to impact through harvest targets. He does however, realize that the way to control escalating deer numbers is through the harvest of antlerless deer, most notably does. No Mike the way to control an escalating deer herd is to increase the kill. Which the state does as needed. …Are you sure? Grant Woods told me a buck worth one and a mature doe is worth two or three to the following falls estimates. I agree that buck tags put hunters in the woods but cheap doe tags will put more meat in the freezer. his will not only appease the insurance commission and farm bureau but should please the non-hunting public as well. Increasing the doe harvest will also help to “chlorinate” the gene pool. How? Buy reducing the number of mothers in an area. That sounds more like an arguement for in-breeding than it does for diversity...…who am I to argue in-breeding with you?.

This is by no means an easy fix as button bucks make up a substantial portion of the antlerless population and are usually the first to die. An over harvest of antlerless deer would be the same as throwing the baby out with the bath water. These less expensive doe tags would be sold accordingly.

In conclusion, if Mike is calling the shots, Ohio will remain a one buck per year state and the buckslayers of this world will continue to operate business as usual. Mike believes that education is the key to pulling any group up by its boot straps. This is why he continued to debate guys like wiley in his previous life.
Well this is this life. And aside from the smoke and mirrors you haven't given us much to go on. And speading misinformation is far worse than no information.

That’s all you got? That’s it? This is like arguing with my wife, only she has something I want.

[mrex]

Now that Mike I agree with:)

sam - I'll bet there's lots that we agree on.;)

[ohiosam]

No doubt. But I'll defend anyone who is legally hunting.

[Kent Dorfman]

WILEY1 writes


[Originally Posted by mrex
Finally you say something we can talk about! It may be a pile of dodo and you put more words in my mouth than come out, but at least it’s something.

First, Mike will never be the Chief of the DOW. Now, if he keeps the right political connections, the GOP gets back in the Governers mansion and venus aligns with mars, he does have an outside chance of being appointed Director of the ODNR. In which case he’ll appoint a chief. There’s a much better chance of him making the wildlife council but even that’s a stretch.

To continue our play along, Mike is not in favor of antler restrictions of any kind. Never has been.

Mikes first order of business, if it hasn’t already happened, will be to stick it to the out of staters by doubling their license fees. At the rate this segment of the hunter population is increasing, this should dramatically help offset the $ lost in the reduction of antlerless tag fees that Mike will also implement. Are you afraid of out of state hunters for some reason. This is a real good arguement. What is this? Are you saying out-of-staters know something we don't. Mrex is full of $_it. Have they already banned you from their states?..... No, but there’s a good chance they’ll ban you from this site for your inability to debate a topic without using foul language. They say that swearing is the sign of a lack of knowledge.

Mike is well aware that genetics in a wild deer population are almost impossible to impact through harvest targets. He does however, realize that the way to control escalating deer numbers is through the harvest of antlerless deer, most notably does. No Mike the way to control an escalating deer herd is to increase the kill. Which the state does as needed. …Are you sure? Grant Woods told me a buck worth one and a mature doe is worth two or three to the following falls estimates. I agree that buck tags put hunters in the woods but cheap doe tags will put more meat in the freezer. his will not only appease the insurance commission and farm bureau but should please the non-hunting public as well. Increasing the doe harvest will also help to “chlorinate” the gene pool. How? Buy reducing the number of mothers in an area. That sounds more like an arguement for in-breeding than it does for diversity...…who am I to argue in-breeding with you?.

This is by no means an easy fix as button bucks make up a substantial portion of the antlerless population and are usually the first to die. An over harvest of antlerless deer would be the same as throwing the baby out with the bath water. These less expensive doe tags would be sold accordingly.

In conclusion, if Mike is calling the shots, Ohio will remain a one buck per year state and the buckslayers of this world will continue to operate business as usual. Mike believes that education is the key to pulling any group up by its boot straps. This is why he continued to debate guys like wiley in his previous life.
Well this is this life. And aside from the smoke and mirrors you haven't given us much to go on. And speading misinformation is far worse than no information.

That’s all you got? That’s it? This is like arguing with my wife, only she has something I want.

Class dismissed.

[Hiller]

Mike may not be on a T.V. show to prove to the world how great of a hunter he is, but there is no doubt in my mind that if he made a couple phone calls that he could.
Look at what he has killed in the past, and how many BBBC contenders he has, I think that speaks for itself. When someone of Mikes caliber talks I'm going to take it into consideration, obviously he knows what he's talking about. I think there is just alot of jealousy from a number of people towards Mike, for what he has been able to do.
Thanks

[WILEY1]

WILEY1 writes


[Originally Posted by mrex
Finally you say something we can talk about! It may be a pile of dodo and you put more words in my mouth than come out, but at least it’s something.

First, Mike will never be the Chief of the DOW. Now, if he keeps the right political connections, the GOP gets back in the Governers mansion and venus aligns with mars, he does have an outside chance of being appointed Director of the ODNR. In which case he’ll appoint a chief. There’s a much better chance of him making the wildlife council but even that’s a stretch.

To continue our play along, Mike is not in favor of antler restrictions of any kind. Never has been.

Mikes first order of business, if it hasn’t already happened, will be to stick it to the out of staters by doubling their license fees. At the rate this segment of the hunter population is increasing, this should dramatically help offset the $ lost in the reduction of antlerless tag fees that Mike will also implement. Are you afraid of out of state hunters for some reason. This is a real good arguement. What is this? Are you saying out-of-staters know something we don't. Mrex is full of $_it. Have they already banned you from their states?..... No, but there’s a good chance they’ll ban you from this site for your inability to debate a topic without using foul language. They say that swearing is the sign of a lack of knowledge. You speak of my lack of knowledge, but fail to give any of yours. You argue against out-of-staters, then prance around and boast to others about Ohio deer. HMMMM? I would think an educated man like yourself would be more offended by the locals that drop all the nice bucks after dark.

Mike is well aware that genetics in a wild deer population are almost impossible to impact through harvest targets. He does however, realize that the way to control escalating deer numbers is through the harvest of antlerless deer, most notably does. No Mike the way to control an escalating deer herd is to increase the kill. Which the state does as needed. …Are you sure? Grant Woods told me a buck worth one and a mature doe is worth two or three to the following falls estimates. I agree that buck tags put hunters in the woods but cheap doe tags will put more meat in the freezer. Yeah. I'm pretty sure. They added two days this year to the gun season. That's how you manage a deer herd. You make adjustments as needed. his will not only appease the insurance commission and farm bureau but should please the non-hunting public as well. Increasing the doe harvest will also help to “chlorinate” the gene pool. How? Buy reducing the number of mothers in an area. That sounds more like an arguement for in-breeding than it does for diversity...…who am I to argue in-breeding with you?. A valid point. My research on you has been very helpful. I'm sure AMA will find it very useful.

This is by no means an easy fix as button bucks make up a substantial portion of the antlerless population and are usually the first to die. An over harvest of antlerless deer would be the same as throwing the baby out with the bath water. These less expensive doe tags would be sold accordingly.

In conclusion, if Mike is calling the shots, Ohio will remain a one buck per year state and the buckslayers of this world will continue to operate business as usual. Mike believes that education is the key to pulling any group up by its boot straps. This is why he continued to debate guys like wiley in his previous life.
Well this is this life. And aside from the smoke and mirrors you haven't given us much to go on. And speading misinformation is far worse than no information.

That’s all you got? That’s it? This is like arguing with my wife, only she has something I want. Power?
More smoke and mirrors.

[WILEY1]

Class dismissed.
So what have you learned.
1. Alienate a family that doesn't hold your big rack fascination.
2. Politic for in state votes, by painting non-residents as a problem to Ohio's QDM. (Hey any good politician has to shake hands and kiss babys)
3. Have your groupies post how insightful you are, even though you haven't said anything that relates to QDM.
4. Dismiss class early so your constituents can hit the bong.
Sure glad I didn't miss this class. Really glad I didn't pay for it.

[Tufelhundin]

Wiley1 good points.....seems to me you think that they "the family" had a good time and thats what its all about.........I guess for about 4 of us.



I'm new to the State but I bought "deer tags".....MMmmm.....must of been out of the "Trophy Tags" or I just didnt fit in that cliche'...... oh, well I bet they're really expensive anyway.

[Gunners]

[QUOTE=Kaiser878]Im with Mike. QDM people, QDM. You kill the little bucks and you will never have a chance at a P&Y or Ohio Big Buck, or even a Booner class deer.QUOTE]
1st Congrat's on the success you and your family had.
2nd QDM is great for Public Land, its great for property you own, but this 90 acre track is his, to do with what ever he pleases. If next year he would post hunted all year and we never saw 1 Buck, you can all say "told ya so" But that would be his problem. As of 2006 Deer hunting season looks like the family will have a great deer camp sit around to talk about for sometime.
3rd If I owned the property I would TRY to put some guidelines on deer harvesting. I would not want to dry up my honey hole. So if I had 14 family members hunting I would say the first 5 Bucks open game but after that does only. I see both sides and agree with both, just my opinon
Jeff

[OHBOW76]

Wiley 1,

In reference to your post about my post, they may not be tryign to impress me, but he is tryign to impress someone, or else he would have just said they went 14 for 14 on "DEER" but he clearly stated that they went 14 for 14 on "BUCKS". Then he proceeded to list all the four and five pointers they shot, obviously he felt this would impress soemone!

In regards to OH1023,

I find it hard to beleive that the only and first shots that presented themselves to all 14 hunters were bucks and not does. It wouldn't even find it plausible that 14 hunters would only see bucks on a the property they are hunting, in fact if there "WERE" 14 bucks there how many does are eating that farmers crops and profits up. Aftreall shoot a doe and you essentailly eliminate three deer. Sorry, regardless of what is legal or your right, doesnt necessarly mean it makes any sesne from any angle. Being from PA originally I have seen first hand what the PGC and the some of the so-called sportsman back their have doen to themselves.

[OHBOW76]

Gunners,

Good comments but I am going to say it now instead of waiting until next year in case I forget........................."TOLD YA SO"!!

[Kent Dorfman]

So what have you learned.
1. Alienate a family that doesn't hold your big rack fascination.
2. Politic for in state votes, by painting non-residents as a problem to Ohio's QDM. (Hey any good politician has to shake hands and kiss babys)
3. Have your groupies post how insightful you are, even though you haven't said anything that relates to QDM.
4. Dismiss class early so your constituents can hit the bong.
Sure glad I didn't miss this class. Really glad I didn't pay for it.

What I read is a poster (you) with a personal dislike for another poster (mrex). If rex said the sky is blue, you would say no it is aqua. In your attempt to shoot holes in the common sense things that rex says, you actually turn the gun on yourself.

[Ross Co. Bowhunter]

Listen folks,

Quit slamming people out in the open forum, next one who does it get's a free 2 week vacation from posting on the forum. This is the 2nd warning, there is not going to be a 3rd. If you don't like what someone does or is, take it to the private message system and hash it out.

You run one time, you got yourself a set of chains. You run twice you got yourself two sets. You ain't gonna need no third set, 'cause you gonna get your mind right.

You have been very patient on this one. Once you weed through all the personal issues in this thread there’s the basic topic of what’s best for the deer herd. It started out as someone proud of his family accomplishments, which he has right to be. We all hunt deer for different reasons and have varying opinions on what is a trophy, whether it has horns or not. The posts in regards to the quality of the herd make good points that I find interesting and I don’t envy the ones making the decisions a bit. I may not always agree with some of those decisions but am thankful the have the opportunity to hunt a deer herd that can produce world class bucks. It is a shame that deer hunting has become so political but popularity has a way of creating controversy which we have all been witness to more than once here.

[swantucky]

[QUOTE=OHBOW76]Wiley 1,



In regards to OH1023,

I find it hard to beleive that the only and first shots that presented themselves to all 14 hunters were bucks and not does. It wouldn't even find it plausible that 14 hunters would only see bucks on a the property they are hunting, in fact if there "WERE" 14 bucks there how many does are eating that farmers crops and profits up.

I really don't want to jump into this fray but I do have an obsevation to add. I have hunted a property 23 times this year, I have had oppurtunites at 11 bucks and only 3 does. I believe some areas can have a far greater concentration of bucks than does. Why???? I'm not really sure but it can happen.

[WILEY1]

What I read is a poster (you) with a personal dislike for another poster (mrex). If rex said the sky is blue, you would say no it is aqua. In your attempt to shoot holes in the common sense things that rex says, you actually turn the gun on yourself.
Actually Kent. I got drug into this by MRex. For some reason he thinks he can through out a bunch of "dodo" and everyone will buy it. That's okay for you guys. I have nothing against you guys worshipping him. But just because I don't. That doesn't make me dislike him. Anybody that brings a positive light to hunting is alright in my book.

[Hiller]

Actually Kent. I got drug into this by MRex. For some reason he thinks he can through out a bunch of "dodo" and everyone will buy it. That's okay for you guys. I have nothing against you guys worshipping him. But just because I don't. That doesn't make me dislike him. Anybody that brings a positive light to hunting is alright in my book.

I don't by any means consider myself to worship Mike Rex, I only acknowledge what he has accomplished in the hunting world and believe that he is atleast worth listening to. You can say he's spreading doo doo all day long but the fact is he is a highly accomplished hunter that alot of people could learn a thing or two from
Thanks
Hiller

[WILEY1]

[quote=OHBOW76]Wiley 1,



In regards to OH1023,

I find it hard to beleive that the only and first shots that presented themselves to all 14 hunters were bucks and not does. It wouldn't even find it plausible that 14 hunters would only see bucks on a the property they are hunting, in fact if there "WERE" 14 bucks there how many does are eating that farmers crops and profits up.

I really don't want to jump into this fray but I do have an obsevation to add. I have hunted a property 23 times this year, I have had oppurtunites at 11 bucks and only 3 does. I believe some areas can have a far greater concentration of bucks than does. Why???? I'm not really sure but it can happen.
Swantucky,
Mature does do have a tendency to produce twin bucks. Maybe with few young does, your seeing a higher percentage of bucks being born. Or maybe the does got slammed last season and very few, if none, where produced this year. Who knows. Each areas different and has its own circumstance behind its situation. However you do realize that not all 11 of those bucks are going to grow into a "good buck", some may never get above a small eight. I'm all for letting bucks walk. But some your just wasteing your time with.

[WILEY1]

I don't by any means consider myself to worship Mike Rex, I only acknowledge what he has accomplished in the hunting world and believe that he is atleast worth listening to. You can say he's spreading doo doo all day long but the fact is he is a highly accomplished hunter that alot of people could learn a thing or two from
Thanks
Hiller
I'm not argueing the fact that Mike is a very accomplished hunter. But throwing out information to try to get people off target is "dodo". And following someone blindly, well......
Yes, people can learn from Mike. About hunting. Not managing the states deer herd.

[swantucky]

[quote=swantucky]
Swantucky,
Mature does do have a tendency to produce twin bucks. Maybe with few young does, your seeing a higher percentage of bucks being born. Or maybe the does got slammed last season and very few, if none, where produced this year. Who knows. Each areas different and has its own circumstance behind its situation. However you do realize that not all 11 of those bucks are going to grow into a "good buck", some may never get above a small eight. I'm all for letting bucks walk. But some your just wasteing your time with.

Agreed. The does do get slammed pretty good because that is what the landowner requests. I am assuming that is why there are so many bucks in the area......the does get shot and the buttons end up hanging around.

I just wanted to speculate on how they could shoot so many bucks and few does.

[traphunter]

Well I have never met Mike Rex and I dont know if I ever will but I can tell you I back him 100% what he is saying. I would shake his hand right now if I could. I wish he would run for cheif of the DNR. :)

[WILEY1]

Well I have never met Mike Rex and I dont know if I ever will but I can tell you I back him 100% what he is saying. I would shake his hand right now if I could. I wish he would run for cheif of the DNR. :)
Yeah!:bouncy: Me too! :bouncy: Seeing how bad things are here in Ohio. Let's turn it over to a market hunter. Or better yet any hunter we see on T.V.

[WILEY1]

That's what people say who have nothing behind them.
People who use the document bestowed on them from an institution, to improve their appeal, have nothing behind them. Maybe you should use yours for what is scripted on it.

[traphunter]

Yeah! Me too! Seeing how bad things are here in [/I]Ohio. Let's turn it over to a market hunter. Or better yet any hunter we see on T.V.


Or maybe someone who knows what they are talking about, and the reputation to make something happen.

[roundhouse]

Thats funny I eat, sleep, and breath this stuff, and have for some time, and I had never heard of Mike 'til last year when he connected on the buck of a lifetime. (Not to mentioned I lived in his backyard for 4 years and was heavily involved in gun and hunting clubs in the Athens areas and never once saw or heard his name.) That doesn't mean he wasn't out there, I just failed to notice that he was on the same level as Larry Weishun.



Very true...He speaks his mind.



I liked it better when you read and didn't talk. I will say more to a man's face than I will on here because I am able to use gestures, facial expressions, and the like to get my point across. And when he speaks I get the same. It has nothing to do with being tough and hidden behing my keys and screem.

you must be a young buck. i got a book a few years back called hunting ohios trophy whitetails. it talks about the secrets of ohios top hunters and mike is one of the main guys. i first started reading about mike in field and stream back in the 80's. i also seen him on the outdoor channel a couple times just this fall on hs outdoors and mossy oak classics.

wiley1, what makes you an expert? why should we believe you over mike? what are your credentials? i will say it again, people are willing to pay to hear what mr. rex has to say. who else on here can say that?

[mrex]

I'm not argueing the fact that Mike is a very accomplished hunter. But throwing out information to try to get people off target is "dodo". And following someone blindly, well......
Yes, people can learn from Mike. About hunting. Not managing the states deer herd.Dan – It appears we’ve got a mutual friend. Well, I’ll call him a friend; you’d more likely refer to him as an acquaintance as he shares the same opinions that I do.

Anyway, our conversation sure shed a lot of light on this conversation. I’m taking my son hunting right now so I’ll talk at you a little later

[WILEY1]

wiley1, what makes you an expert? why should we believe you over mike? what are your credentials? i will say it again, people are willing to pay to hear what mr. rex has to say. who else on here can say that?
I haven't claimed to be an expert. I'm only defending my comments. That were bashed by a person with no formal education in wildlife management.
I wasn't aware I had to post my resume to defend my comments.

[WILEY1]

Dan – It appears we’ve got a mutual friend. Well, I’ll call him a friend; you’d more likely refer to him as an acquaintance as he shares the same opinions that I do.

Anyway, our conversation sure shed a lot of light on this conversation. I’m taking my son hunting right now so I’ll talk at you a little later
Mike- Believe it or not you and I probably agree on most things. I dislike out-of-state hunters. But I am one in their states, and am always treated extremely polite. So I give them the same courtesy. I like to see nice bucks. Unfortunately when deer get large people do whatever it takes to kill 'em, even if that means at 2am.
Being a veteran, these are some of the freedoms I have defended. The right to make your own choices. And Buckslayer was bashed for his choices. Though not choices I would have made. (I'm sorry Buckslayer, I have been trying to avoid making that statement. Because this thread was about your success. And somehow went horrible amuck) They are within the law.

Nice to see you did your research on me. Can't wait to hear what you've heard.

Oh by the way. Buckslayer, I truely hope that the way this thread has turned out will not keep you from posting. As I would love to see some pictures from this wonderful season your family has had. You my friend are who I am most jeolous of on this thread. For you have a large family full of memories. Great things during this time of giving and sharing. Merry Christmas, Sir.:)

[mrex]

Mike- Believe it or not you and I probably agree on most things. I dislike out-of-state hunters. But I am one in their states, and am always treated extremely polite. So I give them the same courtesy. I like to see nice bucks. Unfortunately when deer get large people do whatever it takes to kill 'em, even if that means at 2am.
Being a veteran, these are some of the freedoms I have defended. The right to make your own choices. And Buckslayer was bashed for his choices. Though not choices I would have made. (I'm sorry Buckslayer, I have been trying to avoid making that statement. Because this thread was about your success. And somehow went horrible amuck) They are within the law.

Nice to see you did your research on me. Can't wait to hear what you've heard.

Oh by the way. Buckslayer, I truely hope that the way this thread has turned out will not keep you from posting. As I would love to see some pictures from this wonderful season your family has had. You my friend are who I am most jeolous of on this thread. For you have a large family full of memories. Great things during this time of giving and sharing. Merry Christmas, Sir.:)

WILEY1 – No research here. Believe it or not, I’ve got a life outside of this forum.

There’s a lot more to this thread than meets the eye. Buckslayer has a long history on this forum of “boasting” about all the bucks he kills each year. His total is well into the 100’s and they probably total 100” if you put them all together.

Those who said he was within his right to do so are correct, however, there are plenty of legal acts that aren’t particularly good for the future of the sport. I have no more a chance of changing the way buckslayer hunts than Ted Nugent does of selling Oprah a fur coat.

Something to consider; there are lots of inexperienced hunters who frequent this site and they look to veterans for information and guidance. They need to hear more than just “if it’s brown it’s down” (with horns of course) and “if it fly’s it dies”. I knew I was hijacking the thread when I made my original post.

I don’t really dislike out-of-state-hunters. I look at it this way, it’s the one segment of the hunting population that’s growing and raising their fees is a win–win for the DOW. They’re coming for the quality and it really is a bargain to hunt here.

I agree that large antlers do some strange things to otherwise normal people. I have seen friendships ruined and honest men turn dishonest. Having killed a few decent bucks legally, I’ve also seen the jealousy and lies that can plague an ethical sportsman. “Nobody can be that good, he must be a cheater”.

Although I don’t have a formal degree in wildlife biology, I did graduate cum laude from the school of hard knocks. Like you, I am very interested in wildlife management and not just this 800 acre “petri dish” here behind my house. My neighbor, Dr. Mike Tonkovich, the deer project leader for the DOW is one of my closest friends. We debate this stuff on an almost daily basis. We batted stuff around this morning for an hour. I think the state does a great job of managing the herd. That doesn’t mean if I were king that a few things wouldn’t change, but not much.

I’ve also had the good fortune of becoming friends with noted biologists from other states like Larry Weishune and James Kroll. Quite honestly, IMO, most of their experience doesn’t really apply to Ohio or the Mid-West. I could probably learn more over a few beers chatting with you.

This forum would be boring if we all agreed about everything; however, it’s hard sometimes expressing ourselves without seeming arrogant and cocky. I’m extending an olive branch.:grouphug:

[leftwing]

1st post (new member) Mike, nice buck's. My question is How by raising the price of non resident licenses are you helping the problem? Kind of the forbiden fruit isnt it? I live in Wi. look what happened to buffalo county here.I come down to Ohio every year to hunt with my brother in law,The land owner shut's down his property for the week so we can hunt.You know what he ask's for? NOTHING. Ohio land owners are some of the nicest people I have ever met.I think what you are going to end up with is all kind's of leasing and then no one without the mean's will be hunting places like I do.Sooner or later the big buck craze has to stop.Sure I'm no different than the next guy I'd like to shoot a buck like you have,but the chances are getting less and less.By putting pictures of these deer on the net all it will do is fuel the fire. I think that reciprocal fee's is really the way to go maybe make some of the other states will stand up and take notice if their resident's start complaining? P.s. the last deer i took home from Ohio WAS a doe. You guy's in Ohio should be proud of what you have it could be a lot worse. (look what we have here in Wi)

[mrex]

1st post (new member) Mike, nice buck's. My question is How by raising the price of non resident licenses are you helping the problem? Kind of the forbiden fruit isnt it? I live in Wi. look what happened to buffalo county here.I come down to Ohio every year to hunt with my brother in law,The land owner shut's down his property for the week so we can hunt.You know what he ask's for? NOTHING. Ohio land owners are some of the nicest people I have ever met.I think what you are going to end up with is all kind's of leasing and then no one without the mean's will be hunting places like I do.Sooner or later the big buck craze has to stop.Sure I'm no different than the next guy I'd like to shoot a buck like you have,but the chances are getting less and less.By putting pictures of these deer on the net all it will do is fuel the fire. I think that reciprocal fee's is really the way to go maybe make some of the other states will stand up and take notice if their resident's start complaining? P.s. the last deer i took home from Ohio WAS a doe. You guy's in Ohio should be proud of what you have it could be a lot worse. (look what we have here in Wi)
Welcome leftwing.

Good question. The increased revenue would benefit our DNR. I know throwing more money at a government agency isn’t always a good thing but these folks do a good job and could do a better job if they had more resources.

I’m not sure how this would effect leasing?

I think your chances of killing a big buck in Ohio are as good today as they’ve ever been.

You are correct, Ohio is no longer a secret.

Yes, we are very proud.

[halliday]

Boy this has been interesting to read this thread tonight...my computers been off for a few days and i'm behind on this sight....sorry for the poor man that just wanted to share his familys success with his fellow hunters...nobody in my part of the state will even think of letting small bucks walk...i gave up on trying to convince anyone ...seems it's always going to be a personal choice ...never the less i hunted 4 mature bucks over the 150 range this season on one small farm along with 3 or 4 smaller bucks and pictures of 5 spikes...all on the same 100 acres or so...Anyway I must spend way to much time worrying about my own hunting property and sitting in my stand because after 30 some years of deer hunting I STILL DON'T KNOW WHO MIKE IS..?

[mrex]

Boy this has been interesting to read this thread tonight...my computers been off for a few days and i'm behind on this sight....sorry for the poor man that just wanted to share his familys success with his fellow hunters...nobody in my part of the state will even think of letting small bucks walk...i gave up on trying to convince anyone ...seems it's always going to be a personal choice ...never the less i hunted 4 mature bucks over the 150 range this season on one small farm along with 3 or 4 smaller bucks and pictures of 5 spikes...all on the same 100 acres or so...Anyway I must spend way to much time worrying about my own hunting property and sitting in my stand because after 30 some years of deer hunting I STILL DON'T KNOW WHO MIKE IS..?

On behalf of Shelly Rex; THANK YOU! roundhouse - Not a word buddy, I'm running out of cash.

[Arrow 1]

you must be a young buck. i got a book a few years back called hunting ohios trophy whitetails. it talks about the secrets of ohios top hunters and mike is one of the main guys. i first started reading about mike in field and stream back in the 80's. i also seen him on the outdoor channel a couple times just this fall on hs outdoors and mossy oak classics.

wiley1, what makes you an expert? why should we believe you over mike? what are your credentials? i will say it again, people are willing to pay to hear what mr. rex has to say. who else on here can say that?

I'm not taking sides or picking on anybody on this one but I have been bowhunting in Ohio since 1978 and I have never heard of Mike Rex, until a few months ago. But, I don't have the outdoor channel and I seldom buy North American Whitetail magazine, or Field and stream. Although I did think I was pretty well connected to the bowhunting world.

[Kent Dorfman]

I'm not taking sides or picking on anybody on this one but I have been bowhunting in Ohio since 1978 and I have never heard of Mike Rex, until a few months ago. But, I don't have the outdoor channel and I seldom buy North American Whitetail magazine, or Field and stream. Although I did think I was pretty well connected to the bowhunting world.
I just google searched mike rex. This is one of about a hundred links;

http://www.huntingnet.com/news/news.aspx?news_id=507

[tuffshot]

I just google searched mike rex. This is one of about a hundred links;

http://www.huntingnet.com/news/news.aspx?news_id=507


Welp, it's official, we have heard from the Animal House.:16suspect1:

[mrex]

See what happens when we get civil. The conversation gets reduced to "who's heard of Mike Rex". Somebody say something controversial!

Alright....hey wiley1, your father was a hamster and your mother reaked of elderberry's.:cheeky-smiley-022:

[Big H]

:nono: I liked the controversy better.

[BuckEyeCam]

http://www.buckeyecam.com/images/tumbleweed.gif

[WILEY1]

Man! What happened did you guys fall asleep?
Getting ready to head out for the holidays.
See ya after the new year.
Everybody stay safe and sane.
Good luck over M-loader.
Have a Merry Christmas Mike, and all you other Ohiosportsman.
BTW everyone stay off Egypt Valley, I don't like competition.

[Monroe]

For background info - I am from PA, own a farm in PA, and have hunted in OH for many a moon. You can double, tripple, heck make me give you my wife - I will still venture over to the buckeye.

Your "disagreement" is very civil and one reason why I lurk a lot on this site.

Check out www.huntingpa.com (http://www.huntingpa.com) if you want to see some real disagreements. You guys should just sign up on the site and have some fun stirring the pot - you would be amazed by the bullies on both sides of AR (antler restrictions) and HR (herd reduction). Leave this board for humane grumbings.

BTW - I would say that the majority of these deer were 1.5 year olds that just dispersed this fall to the property in question. They will get there slug of 1.5 year olds again next year and probably have similar chances to repeat the slaughter.

My experience through the years in OH is that most hunt this way. The only thing that I can guess has saved OH has not been "doe management" per say - I would guess that it is the use of shotguns, short season, 1 buck limit, and the relative (to other states like PA) low number of hunters. - I guess this does consitute a managment philosphy though? Will raising fees actually lower the number of hunters - I don't think so. I think it would make it worse - the more someone has to pay, the more likely they will be looking for bone to show the old lady. How will you increase your antlerless harvest then?

Stirring the pot - Mike - do you still have that peach fuzz on your face? Your wife lets you get away with that? No wonder she is anti... :)

Having fun in Monroe

[buckbacks]

hey wiley
can I add you to my buddy list?

[Tufelhundin]

Man! What happened did you guys fall asleep?
Getting ready to head out for the holidays.
See ya after the new year.
Everybody stay safe and sane.
Good luck over M-loader.
Have a Merry Christmas Mike, and all you other Ohiosportsman.
BTW everyone stay off Egypt Valley, I don't like competition.


You have a good one as well....as you know I enjoyed your post.

Semper Fi

[mrex]

For background info - I am from PA, own a farm in PA, and have hunted in OH for many a moon. You can double, tripple, heck make me give you my wife - I will still venture over to the buckeye.

Your "disagreement" is very civil and one reason why I lurk a lot on this site.

Check out www.huntingpa.com (http://www.huntingpa.com) if you want to see some real disagreements. You guys should just sign up on the site and have some fun stirring the pot - you would be amazed by the bullies on both sides of AR (antler restrictions) and HR (herd reduction). Leave this board for humane grumbings.

BTW - I would say that the majority of these deer were 1.5 year olds that just dispersed this fall to the property in question. They will get there slug of 1.5 year olds again next year and probably have similar chances to repeat the slaughter.

My experience through the years in OH is that most hunt this way. The only thing that I can guess has saved OH has not been "doe management" per say - I would guess that it is the use of shotguns, short season, 1 buck limit, and the relative (to other states like PA) low number of hunters. - I guess this does consitute a managment philosphy though? Will raising fees actually lower the number of hunters - I don't think so. I think it would make it worse - the more someone has to pay, the more likely they will be looking for bone to show the old lady. How will you increase your antlerless harvest then?

Stirring the pot - Mike - do you still have that peach fuzz on your face? Your wife lets you get away with that? No wonder she is anti... :)

Having fun in Monroe

I agree with most of what you said. The one buck, shotgun short season certainly plays a factor in our success, however, we’ve been encouraged to shoot does for many years and I personally don’t believe it’s engrained into our psyche to only shoot bucks. At least not as much as the average PA and WV hunter.

I also agree that most of the bucks in question in this thread were probably displaced 1.5 year olds and will probably be replaced next year. My original point, which seems to have gotten past some is that if everybody did this, where would the “replacements” come from.

P.S.- I shaved off the “womb broom” this summer and the wife didn’t like it.:D

[mrex]

Man! What happened did you guys fall asleep?
Getting ready to head out for the holidays.
See ya after the new year.
Everybody stay safe and sane.
Good luck over M-loader.
Have a Merry Christmas Mike, and all you other Ohiosportsman.
BTW everyone stay off Egypt Valley, I don't like competition.

The same to you and your family.

[lacure]

I have been watching/reading this thread since the beginning and, like everyone, I have some opinions, but they all have been voiced in one way or another.

MRex and I have had our "differences" in the past, but I completely respect his opinions and insight. I also respect the family who had such a wonderful outdoors experience.

MRex, if you did indeed win my high school's holiday tournament (and back in the days when it was ultra competitive), I have more respect for you than if you killed 200" bucks every year for the rest of your life!:bouncy:

I had some great experiences at that tournament. Did you ever compete at Medina? I did not realize you were a wrestler, but should have b/c we are a tough bunch! :D Feel free to PM me if you ever want to "talk shop" about Ohio wrestling!

I wish all of you a wonderful holiday season and continued success and safety with the remainder of the hunting season, regardless of species.

[mrex]

I have been watching/reading this thread since the beginning and, like everyone, I have some opinions, but they all have been voiced in one way or another.

MRex and I have had our "differences" in the past, but I completely respect his opinions and insight. I also respect the family who had such a wonderful outdoors experience.

MRex, if you did indeed win my high school's holiday tournament (and back in the days when it was ultra competitive), I have more respect for you than if you killed 200" bucks every year for the rest of your life!:bouncy:

I had some great experiences at that tournament. Did you ever compete at Medina? I did not realize you were a wrestler, but should have b/c we are a tough bunch! :D Feel free to PM me if you ever want to "talk shop" about Ohio wrestling!

I wish all of you a wonderful holiday season and continued success and safety with the remainder of the hunting season, regardless of species.I used to be a grappler but that was in a land far far away. Now I wrestle with getting out of bed in the morning.

Happy Holidays to you as well lacure!

[Buckslayer1]

pictures of are bucks are now posted under a new thread 14 for 14 on bucks Pictures

[Buckslayer1]

My family bagged 2 does yesterday. I had the wife out as she has a doe tag left but none came close enough. I never heard so much shooting coming from my Amish neighbors and from the other farms around us. I thought sure they would run out of shells.

[Ohio Sportsman]

I used to be a grappler but that was in a land far far away. Now I wrestle with getting out of bed in the morning.


Funny how age and what you have done in your youth pays a toll on you once you reach a certain age, I feel it every day. :yikes:

[bulsmith]

I am a nobody. My name isn't known by others and my oppinion doesn't mean **** here.

But, I will say that as I have read many, many posts (not posted alot as you can see) there is a problem with some who "think" they are better than everyone else.

Why must we treat each other like this?
Are we not all hunters?
Why must we read constant arguments from one group about or to another?


Carefull guys, in Michigan they passed that ban on dove hunting.....that's just the start. If we continue to argue with one another, we will have nothing to argue about. Our heritage will be gone.
Mark my word boys, the anti's are getting stronger and we are bitching at each other. Laugh if you will, I don't give a damn. But, the anti-hunters are growing in numbers and WE are arguning amongst oursleves. That's just ******* stupid.

Am I the only one who thinks arguing among ourselves, hunters, is dumber than hell?

I sure hope not!!

I've seen this way too much on this site. Why can't we just congratulate a man and his family for a good season? Is it necessary for us to berate him with our personal BS? NO, I do not think it is!!!

Just my $0.02 worth, whatever you think it is worth!

BUL
:banghead3:

[mrex]

I am a nobody. My name isn't known by others and my oppinion doesn't mean **** here.

But, I will say that as I have read many, many posts (not posted alot as you can see) there is a problem with some who "think" they are better than everyone else.

Why must we treat each other like this?
Are we not all hunters?
Why must we read constant arguments from one group about or to another?


Carefull guys, in Michigan they passed that ban on dove hunting.....that's just the start. If we continue to argue with one another, we will have nothing to argue about. Our heritage will be gone.
Mark my word boys, the anti's are getting stronger and we are bitching at each other. Laugh if you will, I don't give a damn. But, the anti-hunters are growing in numbers and WE are arguning amongst oursleves. That's just ******* stupid.

Am I the only one who thinks arguing among ourselves, hunters, is dumber than hell?

I sure hope not!!

I've seen this way too much on this site. Why can't we just congratulate a man and his family for a good season? Is it necessary for us to berate him with our personal BS? NO, I do not think it is!!!

Just my $0.02 worth, whatever you think it is worth!

BUL
:banghead3:

I disagree (imagine that). The moral of this thread has nothing to do with anybody thinking they are better than everyone else and an educated debate is not necessarily always a bad thing.

Arguments among hunters like choice of legal weapon, especially when one group wants to limit another groups opportunity to hunt (crossbow vs. longbow) are way more divisive and much more to the liking of anti-hunters.

This debate is about what we should and shouldn’t target as stewards of the land and natural resource. My motivation for hijacking this thread was to point out that if we all went 14 for 14 on bucks with only 4 does mixed in, it wouldn’t be long before our quality of hunting would suffer. I'm not trying to belittle a fellow hunter and his family.

Several posters have written “that-know-it-all SOB is just trying to force his way on us so he can kill more big bucks”. That couldn’t be farther from the truth. Buckslayer and his family could kill every buck in Ashtabula County and it won’t have any affect on my season next year. Unless you’re hunting the same woods I am, your actions will only affect YOUR future hunts, NOT MINE!

[OHBOW76]

MREX,

I agree with your final statements wholeheatedly, the unfortunate part is that hunters now-a-days are forgetting the part about being good stewards of the land. I find it funny that the minute anyone suggests taking does as a good management philosophy right away the anti-QDM guys come out of the woodwork. The problem with the anti-QDM arguments are that these guys think its all about producing big bucks, when the primary objective is just to produce a healthy balanced deer herd, and that the big bucks produced are just a secondary by-product of good sound management and a sign of a herd in balance and good health.

[bulsmith]

I disagree (imagine that). The moral of this thread has nothing to do with anybody thinking they are better than everyone else and an educated debate is not necessarily always a bad thing.

Arguments among hunters like choice of legal weapon, especially when one group wants to limit another groups opportunity to hunt (crossbow vs. longbow) are way more divisive and much more to the liking of anti-hunters.

This debate is about what we should and shouldn’t target as stewards of the land and natural resource. My motivation for hijacking this thread was to point out that if we all went 14 for 14 on bucks with only 4 does mixed in, it wouldn’t be long before our quality of hunting would suffer. I'm not trying to belittle a fellow hunter and his family.

Several posters have written “that-know-it-all SOB is just trying to force his way on us so he can kill more big bucks”. That couldn’t be farther from the truth. Buckslayer and his family could kill every buck in Ashtabula County and it won’t have any affect on my season next year. Unless you’re hunting the same woods I am, your actions will only affect YOUR future hunts, NOT MINE!

I was not stating that you were trying to "force your way onto others". My point was the BS arguments that continue often here are not helping our heritage, they are hurting it.
If a family wants to hunt 14 for 14, that's there baby; if you hunt mostly with QDM in mind...that's your choice.

I agree with your final statements wholeheatedly, the unfortunate part is that hunters now-a-days are forgetting the part about being good stewards of the land. I find it funny that the minute anyone suggests taking does as a good management philosophy right away the anti-QDM guys come out of the woodwork. The problem with the anti-QDM arguments are that these guys think its all about producing big bucks, when the primary objective is just to produce a healthy balanced deer herd, and that the big bucks produced are just a secondary by-product of good sound management and a sign of a herd in balance and good health.

I haven't bothered to state my personal hunting philosophy...whether QDM or not; because it wasn't my point.. I am anti-nothing about hunting as long as it is legal. Everyone has their choice to legaly hunt the way they choose.

Again, just my $0.02.

Bul

[mrex]

I was not stating that you were trying to "force your way onto others". My point was the BS arguments that continue often here are not helping our heritage, they are hurting it.
Some is BS and some is just an exchange of ideas. You’re free to choose which is which and what is what.

[bulsmith]

Some is BS and some is just an exchange of ideas. You’re free to choose which is which and what is what.

I can agree with you on that!

[beaverstalker]

You cant eat the horns! Shooting big bucks is just an ego trip. Congrats to the family with 14 bucks!:mischeif:
P.S. Merry Christmas

[halliday]

And the whole time i thought the beef was that instead of just congrats to the man and his family you made a big deal of what he and his family had done and stole his thread....pretty easy to take your ideas and opinions to your own space and let him enjoy sharing his season with fellow hunters. I don't think your ideas or opinions are wrong ....just your timing and where you put them. Sorry still don't know who Mike is. :whistle:

[mrex]

And the whole time i thought the beef was that instead of just congrats to the man and his family you made a big deal of what he and his family had done and stole his thread....pretty easy to take your ideas and opinions to your own space and let him enjoy sharing his season with fellow hunters. I don't think your ideas or opinions are wrong ....just your timing and where you put them. Sorry still don't know who Mike is. :whistle:

I agree with you, however, there is some history with this thread starter and I saw it as an opportunity to point some obvious things out.

In retrospect, I should have started a new thread and let the “atta boys” have this one.

And if I have things my way, you’ll never know who Mike is.

[halliday]

Darn...sure hope i don't lose any sleep over that.:dizzy:

[mrex]

Darn...sure hope i don't lose any sleep over that.:dizzy:"atta boy":biggrin:

[coonskinner]

Funny how age and what you have done in your youth pays a toll on you once you reach a certain age, I feel it every day. :yikes:
get out in the woods more...works wonders for your health...:mischeif:

[OHBOW76]

Beaverstalker,

I thought it was interesting that you said why shoot big bucks you cant eat the antlers anyway, well then, why shoot small bucks? It makes better management sense for controlling deer populations in general to shoot does. It is true that people have the right to shoot and hunt the way they wish within legal limits. However, like I stated previously before I have nothing aginst others success and it is great that his family hunts together like that. My only comment is he didnt say "hey everyone my family and I went 14 for 14on deer", but specificlaly siad "14 for 14 on BUCKS". You guys who are anti-QDM, anti-NOT FILL A TAG, anti-LET ANY LEGAL DEER WALK, are worse than any Trophy Hunter out there. The trophy guys spend a lot of days in stand, pass on a lot of those small bucks that you guys cant pass up once, and harvest a lot of the does becuase they know it benefits the herd. Say what you want about the guy who hunts horns, but overall I would say they are more the steward of the land than the guy that shoots ANY buck every year just so he can tell his friends at work or at the bar thsoe magic words "I shot a buck" because in his mind it carries more wiieght than saying "I shot a doe"!In my opion its the guys who year after year shotts small bucks that is the one who believes that bucks antlewrs have mystical powers, not the guy that hunts big bucks.I shoot does for the freezer, and hold out every year for a good buck, in my mind its a deer around 3 1/2 y/o and more than a few years I dont fill my buck tag, but who cares, to me there is no point to taking a buck "when you cant eat the antlers" unless its worth mounting, when does are so abundant and they fill the freezer nicely!

[mrex]

Beaverstalker,

I thought it was interesting that you said why shoot big bucks you cant eat the antlers anyway, well then, why shoot small bucks? It makes better management sense for controlling deer populations in general to shoot does. It is true that people have the right to shoot and hunt the way they wish within legal limits. However, like I stated previously before I have nothing aginst others success and it is great that his family hunts together like that. My only comment is he didnt say "hey everyone my family and I went 14 for 14on deer", but specificlaly siad "14 for 14 on BUCKS". You guys who are anti-QDM, anti-NOT FILL A TAG, anti-LET ANY LEGAL DEER WALK, are worse than any Trophy Hunter out there. The trophy guys spend a lot of days in stand, pass on a lot of those small bucks that you guys cant pass up once, and harvest a lot of the does becuase they know it benefits the herd. Say what you want about the guy who hunts horns, but overall I would say they are more the steward of the land than the guy that shoots ANY buck every year just so he can tell his friends at work or at the bar thsoe magic words "I shot a buck" because in his mind it carries more wiieght than saying "I shot a doe"!In my opion its the guys who year after year shotts small bucks that is the one who believes that bucks antlewrs have mystical powers, not the guy that hunts big bucks.I shoot does for the freezer, and hold out every year for a good buck, in my mind its a deer around 3 1/2 y/o and more than a few years I dont fill my buck tag, but who cares, to me there is no point to taking a buck "when you cant eat the antlers" unless its worth mounting, when does are so abundant and they fill the freezer nicely!
OHBOW 76 – One of the lessons this forum teaches is you can’t help everybody. No matter how right you are. Lets just pat him on the back and hope that those who could, did!

[Frank in the Laurel]

I see that your FARMERS are complaining, the song they are singing sounds just about like the ones our PGC listened too, we just went through this here in PA, if you want to see the results take a little road trip, it's sad, the public lands are cleaned out...DON'T let them ruin what you already have, listen to not one word about herd reduction..they are lies no matter what they say and no matter what proof they show...OUR liers forgot to think about the number of button bucks that got killed, there is no way on earth to stop this and we do not have any more bucks, but far less, they tried to take credit for the Bigger Bucks, the real reason is "POSTED" miles adter miles of signs are the real reason for the bigger bucks and some of that land that was open is now posted to "save" the doe population from ourselves.. In some parts of this state you can go for days without seeing a single deer, that's QDM ??? DON't let them do it...you'll be sorry, if you've never taken up a cause, Take this one on now...don't let them sell 3 or 4 or 5 special deer tags, your 1-2-3 now is more than sustainable. STOP it before it starts....Your public lands are better than most of our private lands..I hunted more and spent more cash hunting in your state than my own..I enjoy actually seeing a deer, something that is nearly impossible on public land here nowadays.. STOP IT BEFORE IT STARTS....we are the example of what can happen!!

[mrex]

....we are the example of what can happen!!Yes you are. I hunted PA many times through the mid 90’s and if you want to call those the glory days you’re out of your mind. I remember how cool it was to go out and “legally” spotlight. One evening in North Central PA we counted over 300 deer in a 4 mile stretch and NOT ONE ANTLER IN THE BUNCH….NOT EVEN A SPIKE! Years of over buck harvest screwed your state up beyond simple repair.

I have several friends in PA that claim they’ve seen more quality deer in the last few years than the rest of their life combined.

And why is your button buck harvest as a percent of the total antler less harvest so much higher than ours??? I know the average Browns fan is a little sharper than a Stealer fan. Does it rub off on your buttons?

I almost forgot, the pro QDM camp is not looking for a massive herd reduction, that’s the Farm Bureau. We’re just looking for a little healthier sex ratios.

[Big H]

I almost forgot, the pro QDM camp is not looking for a massive herd reduction, that’s the Farm Bureau. We’re just looking for a little healthier sex .


This is one of the main reasons that I am a member of the pro-QDM camp. The healthier sex. ;)

[lung buster]

I almost forgot, the pro QDM camp is not looking for a massive herd reduction, that’s the Farm Bureau. We’re just looking for a little healthier sex .


This is one of the main reasons that I am a member of the pro-QDM camp. The healthier sex. ;)
:yikes: I may have to jump on the QDM wagon ifin that's what it's all about!!:whistle:

[Frank in the Laurel]

That may not be what we all think an example of quality bucks..300 deer and not one spike, difference is now that you don't see the bucks and now the 300 deer are gone also! Now what, nothing to breed, nothing to breed with...don't let the farmers get their way, you'll be sorry...lots of tags by the same brown and down guys in either state can cause more harm that you'd ever believe...Your right QUANTITIY does not equal QUALITY,,,but you have to start with a single deer before you need to worry about QUALITY..any place above I-80 in this state are in bad shape, the private lands that still hold deer are guarded like they are a nuclear power plant...YOU all need to attend the winter meetings and squash any increase in speical deer tags..if it goes to 3 or 4 does and 1 bucks - YOU'll be sorry, the brown and down guys will use em, over and over again, I wonder how many of them even bother to stop at the check station, therefore are unaccounted for?

[mrex]

I almost forgot, the pro QDM camp is not looking for a massive herd reduction, that’s the Farm Bureau. We’re just looking for a little healthier sex .


This is one of the main reasons that I am a member of the pro-QDM camp. The healthier sex. ;)Why didn't I see that coming.:biggrin:

[Big H]

[QUOTE=Big H]Why didn't I see that coming.:biggrin:

Just tring to keep you on your toes Mike.:p

BTW, are you going to go to the Land Manangement seminar hosted by the ODNR in New Philadelphia next month?

[Buckslayer1]

Seen 3 Bucks in the picked corn field yesterday afternoon. All those does we left are already bringing in the bucks for next fall.

[mrex]

[QUOTE=mrex]

BTW, are you going to go to the Land Manangement seminar hosted by the ODNR in New Philadelphia next month?I probably won’t make the New Phila event. We (the BBBC) have been asked to be a presenter at the N. Central Ohio Conference in Huron so I might make that one.

[beaverstalker]

OHBOW,
I have been hunting for more than 20 years and could count the number of bucks I have taken one one hand. There will always be individuals who trophy hunt as well as those who drop the first thing they see. The intent of my reply was to point out that people on this site put way too much emphisis on what deer to take and telling others how to hunt. I look forward to hunting season for one reason and that is the fun that I have with family and freinds. The way people argue and bicker at one another on this site it makes me wonder why they hunt at all because they make it sound more like work or something they HAVE to do instead of being fun. All things being equal I would rather hunt rabbits and pheasant.

[WILEY1]

MREX,

I agree with your final statements wholeheatedly, the unfortunate part is that hunters now-a-days are forgetting the part about being good stewards of the land. I find it funny that the minute anyone suggests taking does as a good management philosophy right away the anti-QDM guys come out of the woodwork. The problem with the anti-QDM arguments are that these guys think its all about producing big bucks, when the primary objective is just to produce a healthy balanced deer herd, and that the big bucks produced are just a secondary by-product of good sound management and a sign of a herd in balance and good health.
OHBOW,
Why do you think hunters nowadays are not good stewards of the land. Is it because kids are learning everything from T.V.? And all they see on T. V. is antler size, antler size, antler size. You and several others think there is a conspiracy against QDM, there isn't. You are trying to make a correlation between a quality deer herd and large antlers. There is very little. You act like big bucks are new to Ohio, they are not.
I can take you to at least six different houses near where I grew up that each have at least one 180 class buck that was either taken in the 70's or 80's. Way before food plots and all the other hocus pocus. So don't try feeding me this new age stuff. Ohio has had a quality herd for all the years I've been hunting. There's no starving, stunted growth, 6 foot browseline anywhere that I'm aware of. The only difference is these hunters aren't looking for recognition. But today there's alot of money to be made from hunting, so times have changed.
In fact if everyone subscribed to your let them grow policy. It would probably not have the effect that you think.
Consider this: Most hunters take the first buck that they are satisfied with. Right? Well let's say we all practice restraint and wait for a little larger buck. Nobody falls out early. We keep pounding the woods until we get the biggest buck in that area. So we're always killing the one that needed one more year to be a 180+.
You see by the state letting people take their choice of bucks, they get alot of buck hunters out of the woods early. Allowing that wily ol' buck to live another year. If we all kept after him all season. He would definetly die. Either from a hunters weapon or from grandma's Cadillac. We all enjoy quality deer management, most on this site just don't realize it.

[mrex]

OHBOW,
Why do you think hunters nowadays are not good stewards of the land. Is it because kids are learning everything from T.V.? And all they see on T. V. is antler size, antler size, antler size. You and several others think there is a conspiracy against QDM, there isn't. You are trying to make a correlation between a quality deer herd and large antlers. There is very little. You act like big bucks are new to Ohio, they are not.
I can take you to at least six different houses near where I grew up that each have at least one 180 class buck that was either taken in the 70's or 80's. Way before food plots and all the other hocus pocus. So don't try feeding me this new age stuff. Ohio has had a quality herd for all the years I've been hunting. There's no starving, stunted growth, 6 foot browseline anywhere that I'm aware of. The only difference is these hunters aren't looking for recognition. But today there's alot of money to be made from hunting, so times have changed.
In fact if everyone subscribed to your let them grow policy. It would probably not have the effect that you think.
Consider this: Most hunters take the first buck that they are satisfied with. Right? Well let's say we all practice restraint and wait for a little larger buck. Nobody falls out early. We keep pounding the woods until we get the biggest buck in that area. So we're always killing the one that needed one more year to be a 180+.
You see by the state letting people take their choice of bucks, they get alot of buck hunters out of the woods early. Allowing that wily ol' buck to live another year. If we all kept after him all season. He would definetly die. Either from a hunters weapon or from grandma's Cadillac. We all enjoy quality deer management, most on this site just don't realize it.It’s good to have you back WILEY1.

I know “near” can be a relative term, but if you’re saying there are 6 houses in lets say a 5 mile radius from your boyhood home with 180 class bucks on the wall, I’m calling BS.

Also, there are many thousands of acres with easily visible browse lines here in SE Ohio. The “Shaq” would have a difficult time breaking off a piece of green vegetation in the WNF across from my house.

[coonskinner]

mike i have never seen the brouse line problem where i hunt...i admit i have seen some problems a few years ago when we had a very high snowfall out near dow lake on some private land i hunt there but the deer came thru fine...maybe you are talkin bout that lil pc. of national forest by the ranger station out there...i have only hunted it a few times...but out in the very large areas i hunt,i have never seen a problem cocerning food...:mischeif:

[mrex]

mike i have never seen the brouse line problem where i hunt...i admit i have seen some problems a few years ago when we had a very high snowfall out near dow lake on some private land i hunt there but the deer came thru fine...maybe you are talkin bout that lil pc. of national forest by the ranger station out there...i have only hunted it a few times...but out in the very large areas i hunt,i have never seen a problem cocerning food...:mischeif:
George – I live on the opposite end of the park. My farm borders a piece of WNF from the south.

I’m not saying the deer are starving to death, just that there are areas with noticeable browse lines in Ohio.

[mrex]

To give you an idea how many 180” and up typical and nontypical bucks were officially scored in the 70’s and 80’s. I just went through the records and there were 3 counties with more than 6 entries in the BBBC during those two decades.

I know, I know, we don’t get them all, but we get a lot of them.

[ron]

What 3 counties ??

[tuffshot]

I know, I know, we don’t get them all, but we get a lot of them.


Maybe 50% ???:whistle:

[mrex]

What 3 counties ??
ron – Licking , Muskingum and Guernsey have historically been tops in Ohio for top end bucks with Coshocton County a close 4th. Basically, the I 70 corridor east out of Columbus.

SW Ohio has come on strong the past few years and any county in the state is capable of producing a giant….if the bucks can just get some age on them.:whistle:

[mrex]

Maybe 50% ???:whistle:Maybe more???:whistle:

I believe the majority we don't get are the 140 to 150 class bucks. A 180+ draws lots of attention and the hunter is usually curious to see what he scores.

[Bawana]

If there were 14 antlered deer harvested and 20-25 antlerless I don't think you would have heard any of these arguments. The whole idea is the balanced harvest. I could care less if you want to shoot a spike or a 14 point as long as you harvest antlerless deer as well.

[mrex]

OHBOW,
Consider this: Most hunters take the first buck that they are satisfied with. Right? Well let's say we all practice restraint and wait for a little larger buck. Nobody falls out early. We keep pounding the woods until we get the biggest buck in that area. So we're always killing the one that needed one more year to be a 180+.
You see by the state letting people take their choice of bucks, they get alot of buck hunters out of the woods early. Allowing that wily ol' buck to live another year. If we all kept after him all season. He would definetly die. Either from a hunters weapon or from grandma's Cadillac. We all enjoy quality deer management, most on this site just don't realize it.
WILEY1 does make a good point here, although it may be unintentional.

The average deer hunter is just that, a deer hunter. If the state were to force them to practice restraint, like antler restrictions, many of the average guys will fall out early and probably watch more football.

With fewer hunters in the woods comes problems for the DOW. Besides the obvious decline in revenue, we need hunters to keep the herd in check. The average guy will only kill so many does no matter how many he’s allowed to.

What some on this site just don’t realize is that the pro QDM camp is not about changing laws. It’s more a mind set that some, not all, can benefit from hearing about.

[mrex]

If there were 14 antlered deer harvested and 20-25 antlerless I don't think you would have heard any of these arguments. The whole idea is the balanced harvest. I could care less if you want to shoot a spike or a 14 point as long as you harvest antlerless deer as well.Bawana - That basic fact was lost about 15 pages ago. Some folks just like to be argumentative.;)

[WILEY1]

It’s good to have you back WILEY1.

I know “near” can be a relative term, but if you’re saying there are 6 houses in lets say a 5 mile radius from your boyhood home with 180 class bucks on the wall, I’m calling BS.

Also, there are many thousands of acres with easily visible browse lines here in SE Ohio. The “Shaq” would have a difficult time breaking off a piece of green vegetation in the WNF across from my house.
Mike,
It would probably be more like a 20 mile radius. And believe me it's no BS.
You have to remember I grew up in a steel town. And the faster you get those hoodlums out of the woods, the better off the deer will be. Accept for after dark.
Browselines don't necessarily correlate to starving deer. Accept in WV.
Most farmers aren't interested in drawing attention to their property. And they definetly aren't interested in the BBBC.
It's just like musky fishing. Do you really think Piedmont is falling off? If you do I'll take you out some time. You'd be pleasantly surprised by what's in there. But you didn't hear that from me.

[WILEY1]

It’s good to have you back WILEY1.

I know “near” can be a relative term, but if you’re saying there are 6 houses in lets say a 5 mile radius from your boyhood home with 180 class bucks on the wall, I’m calling BS.

Also, there are many thousands of acres with easily visible browse lines here in SE Ohio. The “Shaq” would have a difficult time breaking off a piece of green vegetation in the WNF across from my house.
I'm also calling BS. Show me these thousands of acres.

[ron]

mrex....Thanks, good info. I have been in some of that strip mine country in Muskinghum county and surrounding areas. I can see why it is one of the counties with the most entered. I dont know what the deer eat but sure look healthy to me. I have seen rubs and buck tracks as big as any I saw in Canada. Heck, may be more dying of old age than what are entered.:bouncy:

[OHBOW76]

Wiley1,

You stated "You are trying to make a correlation between a quality deer herd and large antlers", in refrence to my comments concerning QDM. You are absolutely wrong. I do not understand why people think huge antlers are the PRIMARY objective behind QDM when it is discussed. Perhaps its because that is what they routinely see and hear when watching hunting videos and television shows. Again QDM's PRIMARY objective is to create a healthy and balanced deer herd and big antlers are a by-product or side effect of QDM. (I cant figure out why this concept is so hard to grasp). You see QDM is more concerned with keeping the herd in balance with available habitat than producing large antlers, but when you have a balanced healthy herd you cant help but see more bucks produced with larger antlers, namely because they are receiving adequate nutrition, and the gene pool becomes stronger becuase with LESS does (due to intelligent harvesting, like not shooting 14 bucks and instead perhaps a few does) competition among bucks becomes greter to breed the remaining does, in this way you have the strongest bucks in the herd breeding the does (antler size does not necessarily correlate with dominance or strnegth but has some bearing). When you have too many does and too few bucks you then have less healthy or genetically strong bucks involved int he breeding. Aslo QDM does not have to equal food plots, feeders, etc.

If anyone thinks I am making all this stuff to justify some sort of perceived big antler addiction try reading a book on QDM. Also I would suggest the book by Charles Alsheimer on Whitetail deer, it also talks about the various stages one goes through as a hunter, and from what I can tell some of you have stagnated and not grown or matured as a hunter, and likely never will.

[lacure]

I have been keeping my eyes on this thread for some time and felt like I should weigh in. Many of you know my position on supplemental feeding (mainly feeders, but also food plots), but do not confuse this with an "anti-qdm" mentality.

I think mrex or someone said that qdm is more of a mindset than anything else and I agree wholeheartedly. For instance, over the past 5 seasons I estimate I have passed up over 100 shots at bucks because they were too small (for my liking). I have also tried to take at least one doe every season, while I have had a couple where I did not harvest a buck. However, I have never planted a food plot. So, am I practicing QDM or not?

My question is why some people equate a balanced heard (sex ratio) with a healthier herd? For example, let's say you have 2 identical 1000 acre plots of land that have the exact same food sources, cover, weather, hunting pressure, etc. One of the plots has 150 deer, of which 10 are bucks and 140 are does. The other has 30 deer, of which 15 are bucks and 15 are does. Which heard is healthier? The bottom line is this question cannot be answered accurately with this limited information, but I can guarantee you that the doe to buck ratio has NOTHING to do with it.

So, I guess my point is that some people are claiming that the #1 goal of QDM is to make our heard healthier by getting a more balanced ratio and that is inaccurate (the two are not connected). The real reason people want a 1:1 ratio is to increase the chances of seeing and shooting a bigger buck, simple as that and I do not have a problem with the rationale, just the way some people try to disguise it as something else.

Also, if anyone believes that Ohio deer are suffering from a general lack of food, cover, habitat, etc. to the point where we must intervene, I call BS! Browse lines? Come on guys, are you serious???

[swantucky]

I cannot speak for the rest of the state but here in Lucas county in NW Ohio there are browse lines. Granted most of them occur in the metro-parks or other areas that are off-limits to hunting, but it does happen. Conversly the areas that do allow hunting the population can be very low. The problem....this whole county is an "urban" area. Where you can hunt they get the crap knocked out of them and in the areas you can't the #'s continue to get out of control. Thed areas that need does taken can't be hunted, the areas that could use more animals get decimated.

[mrex]

After an exhausting seven second search, (out my den window), I was able to locate an example of a winter browse line here in Athens County. Notice the Japanese Honeysuckle and everything else green (except the fescue of course) eaten up as high as the deer can reach.

I also threw in for good measure, a couple of white pines from my place. These are two out of the six survivors of the five thousand trees that Hocking College Students planted for me eight years ago. The deer eat and killed the other 4,994 of them. Notice the pine needles eaten off at deer head level.

Guys, I’m not trying to insinuate that the deer are starving to death down here. I don’t think we’re anywhere near the carrying capacity of the land. What you’re not considering is that our densities are a lot higher than they used to be and our forests have matured over the same time. Many areas like the one I live in have no agricultural fields to speak of. The closest ag field to my place is over five miles as the crow flies. These are woodlands deer and nobodie's cutting any trees. (except me)
392

[mrex]

For instance, over the past 5 seasons I estimate I have passed up over 100 shots at bucks because they were too small (for my liking). I have also tried to take at least one doe every season, while I have had a couple where I did not harvest a buck. However, I have never planted a food plot. So, am I practicing QDM or not?
ABSOLUTELY! Food plots are just one variable of QDM and from what you've written, probably unnecessary in your hunting area.

[mrex]

I
My question is why some people equate a balanced heard (sex ratio) with a healthier herd? For example, let's say you have 2 identical 1000 acre plots of land that have the exact same food sources, cover, weather, hunting pressure, etc. One of the plots has 150 deer, of which 10 are bucks and 140 are does. The other has 30 deer, of which 15 are bucks and 15 are does. Which heard is healthier? The bottom line is this question cannot be answered accurately with this limited information, but I can guarantee you that the doe to buck ratio has NOTHING to do with it.

So, I guess my point is that some people are claiming that the #1 goal of QDM is to make our heard healthier by getting a more balanced ratio and that is inaccurate (the two are not connected). The real reason people want a 1:1 ratio is to increase the chances of seeing and shooting a bigger buck, simple as that and I do not have a problem with the rationale, just the way some people try to disguise it as something else.

Also, if anyone believes that Ohio deer are suffering from a general lack of food, cover, habitat, etc. to the point where we must intervene, I call BS! Browse lines? Come on guys, are you serious???lacure – Your points are well taken and I see what you’re saying.

What if we connected the dots between healthy and the way it would be if man didn’t intervene? Or what if we interchanged healthy with natural?

The emphasis on antlers, and this goes back to the Indians, has brought us to an unnatural place.

I have read several research papers that tackled the question; what is natures intention? Some believe that if left alone, (by man) that there would still be more does as a percent of the total population. Others believe that more bucks would survive as they could more easily fend off predators.

The only thing we know for sure is that they’re born one to one. I’ve never read or heard anyone say that the goal of QDM is 1:1. Just trying to get them back to a healthier, more natural state!

[OHBOW76]

MREX,

Thanks for the exhausting LOL!! search for a browse line. I would say that is a good example of one for sure.


Lacure,
I beg to differ in your idea that buck to doe ratio has nothing to do with a healthier herd. The creators whole intent behind putting antlers on a bucks head and all that pre-rut behavior is to prepare them to engage in the rut to begin with. It ensures that the fittest and most dominant bucks do most of the breeding, usually the most dominant are the most genetically superior and healthiest of the herd. Sure you are always going to have some breeding taking place between does and subordinate bucks, or those of inferior qualities but agin the whole reason God built bucks the way they are is so their is competition that enambles the healthiest to perfom most of the breeding. All the other comments about QDM producing big racks and a stronger more visible Rut are great benefits for the hunter but I never stated and nor are they the main objective of QDM, but once again welcome side products or effects. And yes you can have a browse line without deer starving aftreall deer are browsers and like a variety in their diet!

[lacure]

Great points, guys. This thread has taken on a life of it's own, but I think it is always healthy to discuss/dispute differing perspectives (as long as it is not offensive).

Mrex, those are great pics. They are powerful.

[bowhunter1023]

Its amazing what crops, or lack thereof can do for an area. Take those same 5,000 trees and the honeysuckle and put them on my farm...They go "untouched". The deer eat some of the honeysuckle on our place, but not as much as I would like them to. We have a fence row that is now solid honeysuckle and when it comes time to turn cattle loose in there, I'm gonna have a hell of a time figuring out if the fence is ok til the cows eat it all down.

[ohiosam]

After an exhausting seven second search, (out my den window), I was able to locate an example of a winter browse line here in Athens County. Notice the Japanese Honeysuckle and everything else green (except the fescue of course) eaten up as high as the deer can reach.

I also threw in for good measure, a couple of white pines from my place. These are two out of the six survivors of the five thousand trees that Hocking College Students planted for me eight years ago. The deer eat and killed the other 4,994 of them. Notice the pine needles eaten off at deer head level.
392

Mike are you sure that isn't 'coon damage??

[OHBOW76]

Funny but I dont recall coons being browsers and creting browse lines especially at the height that is shown by Mrex. Sorry but I have to say it looks like the browse line of an ungulate, namely the whitetail deer.

[ohiosam]

Funny but I dont recall coons being browsers and creting browse lines especially at the height that is shown by Mrex. Sorry but I have to say it looks like the browse line of an ungulate, namely the whitetail deer.

Of course it's deer damage! But the standard answer on this site when farmers complain about deer damage is to blame it on raccoons.:mischeif:

[OHBOW76]

Sorry Ohiosam, maybe a emoticon next to your comment next time would show your being sarcastic!

[ohiosam]

Sorry if my feeble attempt at humor wasn't clear.

[bulsmith]

Sorry if my feeble attempt at humor wasn't clear.
I got it.:whistle:

[Hiller]

Of course it's deer damage! But the standard answer on this site when farmers complain about deer damage is to blame it on raccoons.:mischeif:

Racoons do alot more damage than what they are given credit for. I have yet to see a deer knock any corn down, and that is in 10 years of bowhunting and 22 years of living on a farm. Most of the time you never even hear a deer coming through the corn. Sure deer do eat the corn, but they do nowhere near the damage that a coon or groundhog can do to a corn field. And by the way I live on a 300 acre grain farm so I'm not just saying this with nothing to back me up.

The next time your along a cornfield take a look at how many trails come out into the field from the woods that have coon tracks in them. I will almost bet that everyone of them has coon tracks in it.

I have trapped and killed over 10 racoons in about a 150 yard stretch along one of our cornfields in a matter of one week. And there have been a few traps where they have gotten away all in this short stretch of the corn.

So although you may not agree with the standard answer of coon doing all the damage,and they don't do it all but I can tell you that they do alot more damage than any deer will do.

[ohiosam]

Racoons do alot more damage than what they are given credit for. I have yet to see a deer knock any corn down, and that is in 10 years of bowhunting and 22 years of living on a farm. Most of the time you never even hear a deer coming through the corn. Sure deer do eat the corn, but they do nowhere near the damage that a coon or groundhog can do to a corn field. And by the way I live on a 300 acre grain farm so I'm not just saying this with nothing to back me up.

The next time your along a cornfield take a look at how many trails come out into the field from the woods that have coon tracks in them. I will almost bet that everyone of them has coon tracks in it.

I have trapped and killed over 10 racoons in about a 150 yard stretch along one of our cornfields in a matter of one week. And there have been a few traps where they have gotten away all in this short stretch of the corn.

So although you may not agree with the standard answer of coon doing all the damage,and they don't do it all but I can tell you that they do alot more damage than any deer will do.

I agree that coon probably do more damage then deer in corn. However if there are areas where the deer population is large enough to cause a visible brouse line is it inconceivable that there are also places where they are causing damage to crops?

[Hiller]

I agree that coon probably do more damage then deer in corn. However if there are areas where the deer population is large enough to cause a visible brouse line is it inconceivable that there are also places where they are causing damage to crops?

In fact if they are causing a browse line I would see it fit that they could be eating mass amounts of corn, but with all the food just laying around I find it hard to believe that they are having a significant impact on the crops. You must remember that deer have a million other things to eat in the fall other than corn, however at this time of the year is when their hungry and looking and at this time of the year 99% of the crops are off, and they are feeding on whatever the combine didn't pick up.

[OHBOW76]

I 100% am in agreement to racoons causing much more damge to standing corn than deer do, I also see it first hand on the property I hunt.......Racoons dont cause browse lines though is all I am saying!!Aslo deer can subsist soley on corn, they like peopel need varity in their diet and their nutritional requirements change throughout the season.

[WILEY1]

After an exhausting seven second search, (out my den window), I was able to locate an example of a winter browse line here in Athens County. Notice the Japanese Honeysuckle and everything else green (except the fescue of course) eaten up as high as the deer can reach.

I also threw in for good measure, a couple of white pines from my place. These are two out of the six survivors of the five thousand trees that Hocking College Students planted for me eight years ago. The deer eat and killed the other 4,994 of them. Notice the pine needles eaten off at deer head level.

Guys, I’m not trying to insinuate that the deer are starving to death down here. I don’t think we’re anywhere near the carrying capacity of the land. What you’re not considering is that our densities are a lot higher than they used to be and our forests have matured over the same time. Many areas like the one I live in have no agricultural fields to speak of. The closest ag field to my place is over five miles as the crow flies. These are woodlands deer and nobodie's cutting any trees. (except me)
392
Mike,
Nice try. But a browseline is all woody vegetations. Not one local bush huneysuckle. I see plenty of woody vegetation in both photos. A browseline is when you can look through the woods and see every branch clipped off below say 6'. Lets do a little better next time.

[WILEY1]

lacure – Your points are well taken and I see what you’re saying.

What if we connected the dots between healthy and the way it would be if man didn’t intervene? Or what if we interchanged healthy with natural?

The emphasis on antlers, and this goes back to the Indians, has brought us to an unnatural place.

I have read several research papers that tackled the question; what is natures intention? Some believe that if left alone, (by man) that there would still be more does as a percent of the total population. Others believe that more bucks would survive as they could more easily fend off predators.

The only thing we know for sure is that they’re born one to one. I’ve never read or heard anyone say that the goal of QDM is 1:1. Just trying to get them back to a healthier, more natural state!
A 1:1 ratio is not natural. White tailed deer are polygamous. Thus, there should naturally be more females than males.

[WILEY1]

MREX,

Thanks for the exhausting LOL!! search for a browse line. I would say that is a good example of one for sure.


Lacure,
I beg to differ in your idea that buck to doe ratio has nothing to do with a healthier herd. The creators whole intent behind putting antlers on a bucks head and all that pre-rut behavior is to prepare them to engage in the rut to begin with. It ensures that the fittest and most dominant bucks do most of the breeding, usually the most dominant are the most genetically superior and healthiest of the herd. Sure you are always going to have some breeding taking place between does and subordinate bucks, or those of inferior qualities but agin the whole reason God built bucks the way they are is so their is competition that enambles the healthiest to perfom most of the breeding. All the other comments about QDM producing big racks and a stronger more visible Rut are great benefits for the hunter but I never stated and nor are they the main objective of QDM, but once again welcome side products or effects. And yes you can have a browse line without deer starving aftreall deer are browsers and like a variety in their diet!
How exactly would more bucks ensure the most fit breed. By having too many mature bucks they become weak from all the fighting. And some lesser buck sneaks in from behind. Nice theory!

[WILEY1]

Wiley1,

You stated "You are trying to make a correlation between a quality deer herd and large antlers", in refrence to my comments concerning QDM. You are absolutely wrong. I do not understand why people think huge antlers are the PRIMARY objective behind QDM when it is discussed. Perhaps its because that is what they routinely see and hear when watching hunting videos and television shows. Again QDM's PRIMARY objective is to create a healthy and balanced deer herd and big antlers are a by-product or side effect of QDM. (I cant figure out why this concept is so hard to grasp). You see QDM is more concerned with keeping the herd in balance with available habitat than producing large antlers, but when you have a balanced healthy herd you cant help but see more bucks produced with larger antlers, namely because they are receiving adequate nutrition, and the gene pool becomes stronger becuase with LESS does (due to intelligent harvesting, like not shooting 14 bucks and instead perhaps a few does) competition among bucks becomes greter to breed the remaining does, in this way you have the strongest bucks in the herd breeding the does (antler size does not necessarily correlate with dominance or strnegth but has some bearing). When you have too many does and too few bucks you then have less healthy or genetically strong bucks involved int he breeding. Aslo QDM does not have to equal food plots, feeders, etc.

If anyone thinks I am making all this stuff to justify some sort of perceived big antler addiction try reading a book on QDM. Are these books written by Biologists or hunters. Also I would suggest the book by Charles Alsheimer on Whitetail deer, it also talks about the various stages one goes through as a hunter, and from what I can tell some of you have stagnated and not grown or matured as a hunter, and likely never will. What exactly does that have to do with quality deer management. Sounds more like an arguement for becoming a trophy hunter.
So what exactly are you saying, Ohio's herd is not healthy? Still haven't made any points. Still just rederecting the arguement. Can you quote any other out of state people? Please get them to help us, as things are oh so bad here in Ohio.

[mrex]

Mike,
Nice try. But a browseline is all woody vegetations. Not one local bush huneysuckle. I see plenty of woody vegetation in both photos. A browseline is when you can look through the woods and see every branch clipped off below say 6'. Lets do a little better next time.
Browseline: A forest with moderate to high herbivore impacts on understory; visually depleted vegetation at ground level.

I knew you were gonna make me actually leave my back yard. More pictures to follow.

[bowhunter1023]

http://www.freesmileys.org/emo/taunt003.gif (http://www.freesmileys.org)...http://www.freesmileys.org/emo/eatdrink033.gif (http://www.freesmileys.org)

WILEY1 ~ mrex...OS.com