Are deer calls becoming less effective?

[djb]

I have come to my own hypothesis that deer are becoming much harder to call. It has become common knowledge out west that the elk do not bugle as much now as in years past. I witnessed this personally in September when I was there. When the bulls were bugling it was only at night.

I am of the impression that the same thing is occurring here in Ohio. I have been bow hunting for over ten years now. It seemed even as a neophyte, I would get a positive response from a lone buck every time I would softly grunt. I’m not saying they would always come in and stand broadside at 10 yards, but they would at least show a positive response or make a move to investigate the sound. Rattling was always hit or miss, but when it worked – it REALLY worked. The “can” seemed to work great for a few years as well. I have never “blind called” much but have had good success bringing in bucks when they were view. Does always seemed a tougher task.

Things seemed to have changed. I cannot think of a single instance where I received a positive response from a call this year. My good friend has had similar experiences as well. This is a small sample (2) so I would like to get your input to see if I am on to something here.

I am convinced that we, as hunters, are totally responsible for this. I was in a tree last week and some ‘hunter’ was doing his best to imitate the action on the Outdoor channel. He/she must have rattled 7 times within 90 minutes and grunted a few times in between. I actually found myself laughing out loud at one point. Go into any store and there is a dizzying amount of calls and gimmicks to purchase. The latest was this Buck Growl thing. I have actually heard caged rabbits and ground hogs growl, but I have yet to see any documentation of a buck growling. Let’s face it, capitalism means coming up with new and innovative ideas in order to move products. This is why rifle manufacturers keep coming out with new ultra-short/fat/supermag cartridges when there hasn’t been a true advance in smokeless performance in over 50 years but I digress…..

BTW, I think deer look up in trees more now as well but we can save that for another discussion. What do you think?

[critterkillr]

I think your right. You get a bunch of people out there that only know what they read in Field and Stream that evening and run out and try it. Its fine if the time is right. I think people are calling to early and getting busted. I can't say i know exactly when the proper time is but i do know that early oct was to early to be rattlin.

[BandanaMan]

I have only used a deer call on a few occasions this season so far.

Twice when I saw deer, they did not respond, but kept walking as if they heard nothing.......and they were only about 60 yards away from me.

Other times I'd call at random with an estrus bleat, and a rattle bag, with no result.

Who knows?

Calls have never seemed to work for me.........so I basically have stopped using them. I rely on setting up on the best used trail passage for a chance shot.......which has worked well for a buck and a doe on public land in Delaware County this season!

Last year while hunting in Delaware, a hunter passed our location one late afternoon. Then started with a doe bleat can, continuing for about two minutes straight without stopping.

[geezer]

I have come to my own hypothesis that deer are becoming much harder to call. It has become common knowledge out west that the elk do not bugle as much now as in years past. I witnessed this personally in September when I was there. When the bulls were bugling it was only at night.

I am of the impression that the same thing is occurring here in Ohio. I have been bow hunting for over ten years now. It seemed even as a neophyte, I would get a positive response from a lone buck every time I would softly grunt. I’m not saying they would always come in and stand broadside at 10 yards, but they would at least show a positive response or make a move to investigate the sound. Rattling was always hit or miss, but when it worked – it REALLY worked. The “can” seemed to work great for a few years as well. I have never “blind called” much but have had good success bringing in bucks when they were view. Does always seemed a tougher task.

Things seemed to have changed. I cannot think of a single instance where I received a positive response from a call this year. My good friend has had similar experiences as well. This is a small sample (2) so I would like to get your input to see if I am on to something here.

I am convinced that we, as hunters, are totally responsible for this. I was in a tree last week and some ‘hunter’ was doing his best to imitate the action on the Outdoor channel. He/she must have rattled 7 times within 90 minutes and grunted a few times in between. I actually found myself laughing out loud at one point. Go into any store and there is a dizzying amount of calls and gimmicks to purchase. The latest was this Buck Growl thing. I have actually heard caged rabbits and ground hogs growl, but I have yet to see any documentation of a buck growling. Let’s face it, capitalism means coming up with new and innovative ideas in order to move products. This is why rifle manufacturers keep coming out with new ultra-short/fat/supermag cartridges when there hasn’t been a true advance in smokeless performance in over 50 years but I digress…..

BTW, I think deer look up in trees more now as well but we can save that for another discussion. What do you think?


WELL THAT MAY BE POSSIBLE THRU "SELECTIVE CONDITIONING" BUT YOU WOULD NEED A LOT MORE DATA TO PROVE YOUR HYPOTHESIS - INTERESTING -

[djb]

WELL THAT MAY BE POSSIBLE THRU "SELECTIVE CONDITIONING" BUT YOU WOULD NEED A LOT MORE DATA TO PROVE YOUR HYPOTHESIS - INTERESTING -

Exactly the reason I am looking for input here.

[chadwimc]

You may be educating the deer in your area. On Friday afternoon, I grunted once while in my stand. A small four point came in almost immediately. He looked very submissive, like a whipped puppy dog. I watched him circle around my area, trying to find what made that grunt sound. Not once did he come out in the open( Out in the open would put him down wind. He wasn't willing to risk challenging a more dominant buck,I guess). Although I could have arrowed him more than once, he stayed in the woods. About an hour later, I grunted again. About ten minutes later, I hear a grunt. I looked to see the big deer I've been after standing at the fence. He was looking the pasture over, seeking the grunt sound. It was too long for a bowshot. If he was standing like that in gun season, he would be in trouble. He found a doe in the edge of the woods and started chasing her. They ran within bow range several times, but wouldn't stop for a shot. My chest hurt and I had a tension headache this morning from trying to hold a shooting position:D

[traphunter]

It always get me when guys say they call or rattle and the deer come in like they are on a string. Im not saying that it doesnt happen, but never once have I ever experienced it. I every year I have deer within bow range that I dont plan on shooting, so I call a little bit just to see how they will react. Sometimes they will perk their head up and look around, but usually they just act like they never heard it, and this is from 30 yards or less. They only call I have watched a deer react to was the snort weeze, and I used it to get a doe up that had came in and bedded in front of me. So i dont know.:coco:

[4 mile frontiersman]

I think your definately onto something, I call blindly some (not every time I'm on stand), and always at bucks that are out of range and I don't get much reaction. I had one 4-pt this year come to a grunt and other than that, nothing. Probably called to about 10-12 bucks out of range. I knida think the same thing about doe estrous. Don't have much luck with it either. As I say all of this though my brother bleated a little button buck in for nephew this morning and he shot it, so I guess it works sometimes, probably more on the little ones though. I have also experienced the "call-crazy" hunters that noisly walk to their stand and then grunt 15-20 times as soon as they get there.

[Dissident]

i agree that the deer seem to be getting call wise. i have been able to call in some young bucks this season, but every time i called to a mature buck out of range they would just look then keep going. also ive heard several other hunters in the woods this year rattling and grunting so i can see where this could seem blase to the bucks after awhile.

[Q2XL]

all i know is after i did a rattle and call sequence last year i had a 13 pointer come in too 20 yards.and i got him. this year after a call and rattle sequence i called i a 5 pointer.that i got.also called in a big boy but already had my buck tag filled .just wanted too see what i could call in. so too say it works i say yes if ya are huntin in a place that is not hunted or called too much.and callin at the right time

[TritonBill]

Great topic.

I always have my calls with me. I usually call a few times and around every half hour. I normally am calling only when I don't see anything. I haven't had ANY luck calling once the deer are within 70yds or so and try not to, since for me there are too many things that can go wrong, ie: make an unnatural sound, bump something and make noise, make extra movement ,etc.

I can't say for sure that I've rattled in any bucks this year but I can say that shortly after doing so I've had a few smaller bucks come strolling through within 10 minutes. I've been less fortunate this year trying to do some doe bleats and then a follow up grunt or two.

Last year I definately was able to rattle and grunt in a coupel bucks. I was at the edge of the field and saw a buck about 150-200yds away. I rattled and grunted a few times and got him as close as 20yds. He was definately ready to put a woopin on me.

[buckbacks]

the one thing I learned this year is the difference between mature grunts and immature(tones). matures will probably ignore immature tones as an immature will shy from mature because he don't want nothin to do with a big guy. are you using different tones? I'll only call when I see or hear a deer in the distance. I've heard numerous stories of bucks coming in like on a string, one the guy had to call extremely loud because of wind. matures will come more if they feel challenged than just for interest like smaller ones will.

[djb]

I hunt multiple locations in Muskingum, Licking, Knox, and Morrow county so I definitely "get around". I have not hunted the same tree more than twice this season. It should be evident that I am not just hunting the same area and using the same tactics and educating my deer.

Generally I do not blind call to deer. If I do, I like to use the can and blow softly into it rather than tip it over. This makes a nice soft 'pleading' sound. I may rattle once while on a morning stand if nothing has been moving. I have had great success in calling to lone bucks in the past when I have spotted them 75 yds or more away. This year the bucks all seem to stop and listen then walk off or just keep walking. It makes it tough to hunt in wooded areas because the hunter (me) has to be sitting exactly on the right trail in order to get a shot. Before I could be in the general area and call them in.

One more week and then our tactics need to change to hunting deer like rabbits. Gun season is still fun, but it is not like chess game we play with deer in bow season.

[MagnumMudMan]

I have noticed where we hunt that the deer are totally ignoring both scents and calls entirely. I have never had much luck grunting a deer in, but we have had some luck with the rattling and last year I had some good response with the bleat can. I had a nice 10 point come to within 40 yards of me looking for the doe, but would never come closer. This year none of the bucks that I tried it on paid much attention. I had one descent 8 point that I bleated at stop and look in my direction, but turned and followed the doe he was on anyway. I think that we have educated the deer too much by repeated calling and overuse of scents.

Good scent story. The second weekend of November, full rut, I ran a drag line up to my stand on the side of a big hill with tons of good buck activity. I did a good job with my scent elimination, including rubber boots, scent spray, scent blocker base layer and no trace outer suit. Anyway, it was pretty warm that day and deer movement was down. About 15 minutes before end of shooting light, I see a 4 point coming across my trail about 40 yards in front of me. I had no intention of shooting him, but curious if he would respond to the scent drag trail. He walked in slowly, walked over the scent line, smelled it, took one step down the hill and smelled it again. Stopped, looked around and kept walking slowly on his way. He never smelled me, but never really even cared to follow the doe in estrous scent either. I still swear I saw him flip me the bird as he was walking off. Ha.

[bowhunter1023]

In the past, grunting and can-calling has worked well for me. I have tried rattling a decent amount the last few years. I have had no success with it and I am considering abandoning it as a tactic in my area. I think that lack of success has more to do with the structure of the herd and lack of actually fighting, than with the overall education of the deer themselves.

I haven’t had any success with calls this year. I do think that has something to do with the over hunting in our area. I think a lot of calling success is also in calling to the right deer. Some deer are just more curious than others, making them more likely to respond to calling. If you catch the right deer at the right moment, then calling can be deadly.

[tuffshot]

Calling is all timing. When to use a particular call is determined by the time of the season. Once the rut starts all bets are off. The bucks follow the scent trail to the doe, it is not just one spot in the woods with Tinks 69 dumped on a stump or in a film cannister.

Each part of the season requires a different call. The grunt call is just to get a bucks attention, if your grunt sounds deeper than that of a deer in the area he may shy away to avoid confrontation in the early part of the season. But if there is a hot doe in the area their main concentration will be on scent not grunts. Rattling results vary during the season as well.

Also there is some truth to deer getting call shy, if a turkey can be educated to calls so can deer. That is why manufacturers keep coming out with new types of calls. And most calls are responded to by younger deer not the old mature bucks.

[ron]

Second week of November saw a rack buck at about 125 yards walking through the timber. I grunted once and he stopped and looked my way. I grunted again and he took off the way he came on a dead run, like someone shot at him. Dont know how big he was, I didnt have any binos, only knew he had a rack above his head. Saw a nice 8 point in the same area with his rack snapped off above the brow tine. I think he was more afraid of another buck than call shy, but not positive. I also had a doe come in underneath me one morning just after I climbed my tree making the bleat call. It had the same rythum as the can but deeper tone. She made the call 4 or 5 times and then walked away. No buck was in the area that I know of. It was pretty open woods, and no buck came in. That was on Nov. 7. Maybe she heard the sound of my climber scraping the tree as I climbed and thought there was a buck there. She was directly under me and only called at that spot. Go figure.

[4 mile frontiersman]

Funny that you mention the deer coming in possibly as a result of hearing your climber, but it seems that when I'm using my climber deer often come in to check it out (when I going up or down but mostly down), maybe it is the scraping on the tree or maybe it's just plain coincidence.

[10Gauge]

I think the deer are getting wise to the sound of my Tahoe.....as soon as I get to Vinton County the deer seem to disappear!?!?:whistle: :D

[4 mile frontiersman]

I think the deer are getting wise to the sound of my Tahoe.....as soon as I get to Vinton County the deer seem to disappear!?!?:whistle: :D

Those Vinton County deer are smarter than deer in other counties.

[deerhunt45]

interesting thread :)

I think the deer are getting wise to the sound of my Tahoe.....as soon as I get to Vinton County the deer seem to disappear!?!?:whistle: :D

yeah that 10ga, i think they hear my ranger coming too...he he he.:D

i certainly believe that deer in an area with any kind of pressure at all can become educated to both calls and canned scent.

however, i have had some success with both at times. i would have to agree it is all timing and curious and/or sex crazed deer.

during the rut in ohio a couple years back, i had a buck (mature 8 pt) walking past just out of bow range. as i watched him i realized he would cross behind me downwind. i grabbed my doe in heat squeeze bottle and "casted" two streams into the atmosphere from my treestand. i immediately followed this with two LOUD estrous bleats. now, as the buck nears this "intersection" point directly downwind, he turns a full 90 degrees and with his neck fully extended upward noses the wind in my direction. he proceeds to walk towards me to investigate. when he was within 23 yards and broadside, his life ended :coolgleamA:. true story. :D

just came back from a michigan hunt. several times i tried the estrus "can" with absolutely no results. IMO the cans have no tone and you have very little control over it.
several different times when i tried my true talker tube, i saw deer (does) in shooting range within minutes. coincidence? never got a shooter buck to show himself though, just one button buck :whistle:

45 :coolgleamA:

[Big H]

interesting thread :)



yeah that 10ga, i think they hear my ranger coming too...he he he.:D

i certainly believe that deer in an area with any kind of pressure at all can become educated to both calls and canned scent.

however, i have had some success with both at times. i would have to agree it is all timing and curious and/or sex crazed deer.

during the rut in ohio a couple years back, i had a buck (mature 8 pt) walking past just out of bow range. as i watched him i realized he would cross behind me downwind. i grabbed my doe in heat squeeze bottle and "casted" two streams into the atmosphere from my treestand. i immediately followed this with two LOUD estrous bleats. now, as the buck nears this "intersection" point directly downwind, he turns a full 90 degrees and with his neck fully extended upward noses the wind in my direction. he proceeds to walk towards me to investigate. when he was within 23 yards and broadside, his life ended :coolgleamA:. true story. :D

just came back from a michigan hunt. several times i tried the estrus "can" with absolutely no results. IMO the cans have no tone and you have very little control over it.
several different times when i tried my true talker tube, i saw deer (does) in shooting range within minutes. coincidence? never got a shooter buck to show himself though, just one button buck :whistle:

45 :coolgleamA:

Try blowing into the little hole in the bottom of the "Can" No charge for this tip.;)

[deerhunt45]

Try blowing into the little hole in the bottom of the "Can" No charge for this tip.;)

thanks. huh, guess i should read the intructions ;)

truth is, my bro in law gave me this call this past week and it was brand new to me :coco:

45 :coolgleamA:

[Big H]

thanks. huh, guess i should read the intructions ;)

truth is, my bro in law gave me this call this past week and it was brand new to me :coco:

45 :coolgleamA:

You won't find this tip in the instructions. This came from improvising, with a can that wasn't working. You have to have the small hole on the bottom facing down, and don't blow too hard. I have done it like a fawn in distress, and had does charge into my tree looking for the hurt fawn.

[Wildcat]

I agree with almost all that has been said here..Grunts and rattling seldom bring mature :bouncy: deer to within archery distance.Even doe bleats rarely do..Nothing works ALL the time :coco: ...lol....
BUT calling can and does work ,again just NOT all the time..The mature nine pointer I shot november 5th (06) at 4:15pm had come from about eighty yards away to within fifteen yards of my tree stand ~after I first called and stopped him with one bleat (he was headed away when I first saw him)..I then bleated non stop (it was a hail mary effort) about six times in a row as he started to walk away..He stopped and then headed MY way!At a trot!!...His skull/rack is now drying in my garage!..Fooled him!:dizzy:
Calling is just another tool.Its not some miracle fix for us hunters..Being set up in the right spot is always best way to whack a "pig".If however they arent where you want or need them to be for a shot ,calls are worth a shot..They are a cheap way to make "venison happen" when it may not otherwise....My .o2..Good hunting and be safe in the woods........Wildcat.

[deerhunt45]

I agree with almost all that has been said here..Grunts and rattling seldom bring mature :bouncy: deer to within archery distance.Even doe bleats rarely do..Nothing works ALL the time :coco: ...lol....
BUT calling can and does work ,again just NOT all the time..The mature nine pointer I shot november 5th (06) at 4:15pm had come from about eighty yards away to within fifteen yards of my tree stand ~after I first called and stopped him with one bleat (he was headed away when I first saw him)..I then bleated non stop (it was a hail mary effort) about six times in a row as he started to walk away..He stopped and then headed MY way!At a trot!!...His skull/rack is now drying in my garage!..Fooled him!:dizzy:
Calling is just another tool.Its not some miracle fix for us hunters..Being set up in the right spot is always best way to whack a "pig".If however they arent where you want or need them to be for a shot ,calls are worth a shot..They are a cheap way to make "venison happen" when it may not otherwise....My .o2..Good hunting and be safe in the woods........Wildcat.

definitely an art to it. sometimes i wonder if we try to call too softly or subtly and the deer just don't hear it?

45