Whats up with Killdeer Plains

[Weekender]

On Saturday Morning I took my nephews over to Killdeer Plains for the second weekend of Youth Season. I had received some inside information that the pheasants were released in section J. Upon arriving I could not even drive down the dirt road into the section as they were having field trials again this weekend. I sat at the blocked road and guys riding horses with dogs (but not hunting or in a trial) come up near my car and run there dogs kind of like to say to me stay out. We went else where, we had zero flushes, so no shots for the kids. Is the state renting out my public hunting property if so why during the youth season, plus why did they release birds in a area that is having a field trial. I guess I know the answer and it stinks...Politics, and not Dems or Republicans but internal politics. Now they make it look like they are doing it for the kids.

[oleman]

Weekender

Surely this isn't the first time you seen this in Ohio:yikes:

This is just a sample of Ohio DNR management skills:tsk: :coco:

[WILEY1]

Weekender,
I can't say what happened up there this weekend. But I know the area manager personally. And I can't see that being the case. The DNR always spreads the birds over the property. Plus, it wouldn't make much sense to put 140 birds on top themselves. Killdeers all pheasant cover. They can be hard to find.

[Matt D]

The fact that the road was closed had nothing to do with the field trial going on. That road is going to remain closed from now on. Makes for some nice big sections in there.

I drove around over there Saturday AM and was also surprised to see a trial going on during the youth season. I suppose you could have hunted in that section if you had wanted to? I don't know this for sure but am assuming that is the case.

Sounded like the duck guys had some shooting over there first thing in the AM. I was a little surprised at the lack of kids I saw hunting, as a matter of fact I only saw one guy with 2 kids out. Don't give up on that over there as there is pretty good number of birds.

Matt D

[buggs]

I have been bird hunting for 5 years now in ohio.
One thing I learned during the first season, dont take
the wife, or a newby to public land, especially on the weekend.
Find a local preserve and get a few birds. These are the
same birds you find on public land, except for the fact that
you will see and shoot most of them at a preserve.
We have very poor bird numbers, poor habitat, and until
the state makes us put a 20$ tag on every bird we shoot,
then forget about seeing wild birds. I used to think preserves were
a cheat hunt or joke too, now I save up and do most of my hunting
there. Happy newby to sport, happy wife, happy dog. Happy freezer
full of meat!;)

[Weekender]

Well the week before, I hunted at Killdeer, we hunted a youth hunt with the same kids at a Pheasant Forever function. When the thing was kicking off the county Game Warden asked if he could hunt with me and the two kids I had (nephews), he and I hunted with the boys for the afternoon and really became, I don't know if I can say friends but I will.
I told him Iwas going to take the same kids to killdeer the next weekend, he has some inside knowledge I would think. He told me several times to concentrate in unit J as that is where the birds are to be released for the youth hunt, because the area is so big and so little amount of youth hunters it was decided to release them in J for a better opportunity for the youth. I would say that was a pretty good source.
The road closed was closed for the youth hunt last year also for the field trials.
If you saw me I had a little fat Brit and the two kids, we were driving a black impala. I talked to one other hunter that had older kids with him mine were around 12/10 years old.
He asked if they can shoot the quail, as that is what they were seeing. No they were put out for the field trials and we are not allowed to shoot at them. Those guys were hunting pheasants in hip waders, the water that day was troublesome.
I can not believe that they are going to keep that road closed for the season as that is the main road in the wildlife area. But it will be better for the field trials I guess.

[WILEY1]

Weekender,
I guess that game warden wasn't much of a friend. Putting you on a spot you couldn't hunt. You should call up there. Those guys will let you know what's going on. And you could ask them about those tough guys that ran to you off ( so to speak) on the horses. Good luck.

[Weekender]

Wiley I take it that you on the horse, section J is next to the trials area but still blocked off due to the road being closed. You deserve it more than the rest of the public, I am sorry.

[The_Duck_Hunter]

The way I see it is there should not be ANY type of field trials on any public land, on any date that its State published that that land is open to public hunting.

Its ludicrous IMHO

[WILEY1]

Weekender,
What exactly are you reading. Are you out of your mind. What did I say to offend you. I am on your side JACKASS.

[Weekender]

I just spoke with the Ohio DNR law divison at 419 424 5000. It is illegal for you and I to shoot quail on the public hunting lands of Killdeer Plains. The field trial guys release just quail on the property and hunt them down. This is not a dog training area where that would be legal nor are they tagging the birds as required by you and I if in a dog training area. In the past years the DNR has cited hunters for shooting quail in Killdeer but not the trial guys. I asked if this was public ground and it is and it is illegal to shoot the quail unless tagged yes it is, but we have had a agreement with them. But he concluded that I was correct on all points. Please give them a call and voice your displeasure or voice your positive reaction as it may be needed. This is your public land and lets band together to end this elitism here in our back yards. They can take that stuff to private grounds. NO you are not allowed to ride your horse there either.

[go2epointers]

Weekender,
I understand your frustration as I see this often also, but I do know that there is a certain part of Killdeer plains that is off limits to hunting as it is basically field trial grounds. Now the game warden or DNR was correct on the point that they are not allowed to be shooting quail on public grounds if it is not listed as dog training area with the state but I might be wrong but I believe that in those trials at Killdeer they are not shoot to retrieve trials, just basically point trials and the handlers use blank guns. As for horses on state ground or public ground, I have no clue how that rule if there is a rule on it goes. I do understand your frustration and as long as the state gives the ground that they have to the trialers, I really don't complain to much because I do know that Killdeer is a very big place and usually has enough room for everyone to do something whether it be hunt or trial. I don't trial dogs anymore but I will not go against trialers because they too are sharing the fields and working dogs to be better on birds. Now if they were off the grounds they were supposed to be on and basically ran you out, yes you have a complaint to the DNR and they will contact that organization that put the trial on and let them know the rules governing the grounds the use. So you did do the right thing by calling them and letting them know, and we are all glad your trying to help the youth to experience a better hunting situation. Oh and by the way, I think Wiley1 was sticking up for you, not criticising you. Just my 2 cents.
Good luck and have fun in the field
Greg Agee

[Lance]

First off I'm really sorry to hear you had a bad experience, I think you really got a bum deal that someone directed you to the field trial area to hunt and find it hard to beleive they would stock the birds over that area like that. I hate to see problems like this.

A little more clarification with the field trials that are held a Killdeer is in order just provide a little extra insight to how these work, and hopefully foster a little understanding.

Field trials are held as a way to measure and improve the breeds of all pointing dogsr. The use of the larger fields allow for the ability to judge the stamina and physical ability of these dogs, above and beyond the things you can do in a smaller area. Without field trials you would not enjoy the quality of dogs you have to hunt over today. These trials as well as the dog owners that train on these grounds are also responsible for releasing well over 1000 quail a year in these areas. As Greg said these birds are almost always blanked over when the dogs are afield, these trials are very seldom shoot to kill. The only time birds are shot in most trials is for a staged retrieve to sort out the final placements. As far as being an elitest activity, that couldn't be farther from the truth. Most of the trialers are guys like you and I and are FAR from wealthy. The pro trainers that do campaign dogs do it because they love it not because they're getting rich off it.

Killdeer Plains is one of only TWO wildlife areas in the ENTIRE state that allows pointing dog field trials during any open hunting season and is used by many many clubs. The field trial area is 1/2 mile by 1/2 mile square and comprises less than 10% of the huntable area at Killdeer Plains. I really don't feel it's too much to ask to have a couple places in the state that allow this. I hope I don't come off too strong but it's how I feel.

[The_Duck_Hunter]

Just for the record.......

Myself and a friend made our way to Killdeer, Sunday the 5th. That road CH-75 was blocked to vehicle trafficabout 1/2 way into the area, but you were allowed to hunt the property by foot.

We chose to hunt an area right off CH-71 and to the West of TH-108.

We got lucky and flushed and bagged a rooster.

I'd say there were only a dozen other vehicles seen all morning so we didn't even have verbal contact with any other hunters although we did hear moderate shooting for the number of cars we saw.

[stoney_bogg]

BY THE WAY -DO YOU GUYS KNOW THAT THE FIELD TRIAL HUNTERS ARE EXEMPT FOR HAVING TO HAVE A OHIO HUNTING LICENSE WHILE CONDUCTING A FIELD TRIAL. EVEN OUT OF STATE INDIVIDUALS.
RENTAL FEE FOR A FIELD TRIAL PERMIT IS $50.00 PER DAY -CAN SIGN UP TO 2000 PLUS ACRES FOR THEIR USE.--STILL ONLY $50.00:mad: AND THEY GET TO RIDE THEIR HORSES AROUND YOUR PUBLIC HUNTING AREA.
GUESS WHO PAYS FOR THE MOWING OF THE LANES IN THE FIELD TRIAL AREA? NOT THEM AS THEY PAY NO HUNTING LICENSE.

IF THAT PISSES YOU OFF ---CALL ----THE DIVISION OF WILDLIFE------ DISTRICT TWO ---- ASK THEM
419-424-5000:mad:

[Lance]

Couple of items in response to this.

First,
Considering field trialers train and hunt bird dogs, what do you think the odds are of that they do not have a hunting license???? And as for the non-resident trialers, the trials that attract them are almost exclusively blanking.

Second, the public has the right to use the PUBLIC hunting areas for approved uses. they pay their permit fee for the day and there for have that privelage. Considering there are a number of wildlife areas that allow trail riding anytime without charging a fee I don't see where this is even an issue.

As for mowing the lanes in the field trial areas I see a lot of other "upland" cover getting paths mowed through by the state all over the place not just the field trial areas. They do it do the guys without dogs have a better chance at flushing the running pen raised pheasants.

I'm really sorry to hear you have an axe to grind with the field trialers, considering how many birds these guys release onto public ground for training purposes, if anything you should be thankful. Most of the guys that I know that trial release well over 100 birds that are free to roam and propogate. Or get shot by hunters during pheasant season. hmmmmm......

[BradU20]

:yeahthat:

Very good points

[Fishin 2]

RIDE A COWBOY !!! Heck, buy ya a horse, get a shiny gun, join club, and shoot quail too!:yikes: Mike:bouncy:

[Weekender]

Ah Lance we (licensed Ohio hunters) are not allowed to shoot the quail that you release on the land. Should we get excited and pop one of the quail we will be cited for taking game out of season. Just how do you get to break that law and feel it is your right. The DNR could not give me a reason why you are allowed, this is not a dog training area, nor are the birds tags as I would be required. Just how are you exempt.

[Lance]

Here's the skinny on shooting quail during a trial.

The few quail that are shot at a trial usually falls at around maybe 5-10 maybe a handful more on a full weekend national event. These birds are REQUIRED by the state to be banded prior to being released and shot. The club running the trial will face a fine if they do not follow this requirement. And yes they do check. Been there done that(checked but LEGAL). Simply put though if your not shooting them you don't need to go through the trouble of banding, if you do shoot them you better have your bands.

While were back on the quail subject I'll throw another thought about how little the field trialers are doing for the area vs. license dollars;

Now lets throw into the mix that over the course of the trials a club will tend to release somewhere between 100 birds on a low turnout one day event to 300 birds on a national 3 day event like the CAN-AM trial( @$3.20 each). All of these are still there when the trials done and over with. Adding to the diversity of the area along with providing the hawks with "dumb" food to eat instead of picking on the precious few wild pheasants we do have. Oh and some of these birds will actually develop into covies and survive.

There also trials like the Pheasant Championship that ran at Kildeer last year that is ran on released pheasants and is a no kill trial also. And yep those birds were there afterwards also. ;)

Oh and plenty of "hunters" shoot these quail depsite being protected. Seen that one too. :(