Scent Smoker at White Ridge

[brock ratcliff]

The Scent Smoker team had a great first weekend at White Ridge Cabins. The team consisted of five hunters, Sean, Becky, Bob, Tony, and Brock---that is me.
The hunt started early Saturday with Sean, Tony and Bob heading out before sunrise. The morning hunt was mostly uneventful with Bob and Tony seeing a few deer and several turkeys. Sean saw nothing. I was unable to hunt early due to work. Becky slept in. I arrived about 10:30 to find Sean working hard positioning a new stand. Sean, Becky and I had a fantastic lunch while Bob and Tony snacked in there treestands, those boys are hard-core and like to hunt from daylight to dark. Their reasoning was they had seen the huge bucks at White Ridge on the Buck Eye Cam in the middle of the day enough to keep them there.
Sean and I headed to a perfect cherry tree stand. I wanted to video him killing "The Big 8", and felt his chances were as good as they were going to get. Becky headed to a cozy stand to wait for her chance.
With ten minutes of legal shooting light remaining, Becky got her opportunity. The ten point presented a good broad side shot. The deer was standing in front of a Buck Eye Cam when she shot!
Sean and I had a great night in the tree. We saw four gobblers, a ground hog entertained us for a while and we had doe after doe under and around our tree. I tried as hard as I could to get Sean to shoot one of the does but his will to kill "The Big 8" was too strong and he would not let fly!
At dark, we met up with Becky and she told the tail. We went to the scene of the shot and found no sign of a hit. Sean suggested that since the deer was in front of a Buck Eye Cam when she shot, perhaps we should go back to the house and check what the camera saw. It revealed the deer was missed cleanly, in fact, he came back to the spot to see what had happened! Those cameras are awesome!
Tony and Bob had no shot opportunities.
Sunday was similar to Saturday with few a.m. deer sightings, we had a feeling that the p.m. hunt would be different! Once again Tony and Bob remained in their stands all day, seeing deer and turkeys but shooting none, hoping for a shot at one of the big ones.
Sean and I headed back to the cherry tree, Becky was unable to hunt due to other obligations. We managed to get plenty of video of the gound hog again. Finally, deer started to move. Sean was again in the hot seat, bow in hand. I was behind the video camera. When it became obvious that there was about to be a perfect shot presented, I asked Sean if he wanted to shoot a doe. He gave me the standard "Are you kidding?" look. I said "Switch me" and he took the camera and I grabbed my bow. I started shaking like a leaf. The whole tree was rocking! Luckinly for me, Sean thought his stand was coming loose and didnt know the un-nerving feeling he had was from me shaking. After a few minutes the doe took the last step and I shot her from about 25 yds. It was a good shot and the trail was very short. We hunted to the end of legal shooting light seeing several more deer, but not "The Big 8".
We met up with Tony and he told us about a fantastic miss, shooting just high. It was a doe, but being close to the end of the weekend hunt, Tony was glad for the opportunity.
When we arrived at Bob's stand we found him looking at a bloody arrow, saying "Man the Scent Smoker works!" He had scored as well! A short tracking job latter, Bob found his butter-ball fat doe, shot cleanly through the lungs. He had deer around him all evening and took his shot with 30 minutes of shooting light left. The Buck Eye Cam in front of his stand revealed that several more deer had come in after he shot but he only took one deer, no need to be greedy.
At the end of the hunt it occured to me, we had hunted a very tough-wind all weekend. It was blowing very hard on Saturday but at least was from a steady direction, Sunday was variable, from no wind to a slight breeze and changing directions continously. Even with very fickle winds, all five participants had several shot opportunities and not one deer winded any of us! Two killed deer, two missed and one subborn son-of-a gun didnt want to dull his knife.:biggrin:
It was a fantastic weekend and the folks at White Ridge Cabins showed us un-matched hospitality, concentrating on the little things that make a stay great!

[BuckEyeCam]

Here are some pics from the "Ridge" - and for the record, everyone was "wearing smoke".....

Brock's deer in the peas
http://www.whiteridgecabins.com/images/100_0507.JPG



Bob's deer off the big clover
http://www.whiteridgecabins.com/images/100_0505.JPG


Tony's doe he shot over:whistle:
http://www.whiteridgecabins.com/images/p1_12894.jpg



Becky walking down the oat patch to get to her stand: (she knows where the camera is)
http://www.whiteridgecabins.com/images/p1_12868.jpg


Buck shows up with 10 minutes to spare :)
(9/30/06 Sunset 7:11PM - legal shooting to 7:41PM)
http://www.whiteridgecabins.com/images/p1_12869.jpg

A "swing and a miss"
http://www.whiteridgecabins.com/images/p1_12870.jpg


Buck turns around to see what just happened :) then turns and walks away...
http://www.whiteridgecabins.com/images/p1_12871.jpg

[brock ratcliff]

Hee, hee, Those cameras are too cool!

Did you see the big freak I got on "the farm"?
I want to kill that ugly sucker, he was a regular customer last season, this year he will get shot.)

[tuffshot]

Great story and time in the field, Brock!

Congrats on the doe. Keep the success stories coming!;)

[Tufelhundin]

Hee, hee, Those cameras are too cool!

Did you see the big freak I got on "the farm"?
I want to kill that ugly sucker, he was a regular customer last season, this year he will get shot.)



Ditto the coolness factor.......I have been watching these camera's all summer....aint seen no freak....well there was this thin that was riding in Mule or something , LOL. Oh, yeah...whats up with the dirt bike picture???

[BuckEyeCam]

The dirt bike field dressed around 175 pounds. :irked: Tony thought it was a lot bigger when he shot must have been ground shrinkage or something.....:mischeif:

As it were, we were less than pleased with the "dirt bike" riders. It seems that the father and son team (2 dirt bikes) paid no attention to a ton of "no trespassing" signs they rode by to get there.... Then when they saw Tony in the stand they completely ignored him and kept on going.
They really shouldn't have ignored Tony :tsk::) I mean aside from riding on my property, that was just rude to ignore Tony. hehehe
The other is a ranger - that is us:)
We haven't had dirt bike rider issues in over 4 years - just one of the bonuses of owning land down here I guess.....

[deerhunt45]

great opening weekend hunt. the cams are really cool :coolgleamA: .

thanks for sharing :) with us.

45

[brock ratcliff]

The "freak" is not on the White Ridge, he is up here in this awful flat land where we use our trucks to get our deer out, we dont need a Ranger........BEC you feel free to bring it up though, that thing is cool.

[coonskinner]

hmmm...trucks,rangers,4 wheelers,well dont see that where i hunt...if you get one...its draggin time...i always try to position myself where if i shoot one,chances are it runs toward deer camp or my truck...a 3/4 -1mile haul can be tough...in certain places...:D

[Tufelhundin]

The "freak" is not on the White Ridge, he is up here in this awful flat land where we use our trucks to get our deer out, we dont need a Ranger........BEC you feel free to bring it up though, that thing is cool.



MMMMMMMMmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.........flat land :bouncy: :bouncy: :bouncy:

[geezer]

hmmm...trucks,rangers,4 wheelers,well dont see that where i hunt...if you get one...its draggin time...i always try to position myself where if i shoot one,chances are it runs toward deer camp or my truck...a 3/4 -1mile haul can be tough...in certain places...:D

THEY DRAG EASY BEHIND DA TRACTOR :D :whistle: :mischeif:

[BuckEyeCam]

hmmm...trucks,rangers,4 wheelers,well dont see that where i hunt...if you get one...its draggin time...i always try to position myself where if i shoot one,chances are it runs toward deer camp or my truck...a 3/4 -1mile haul can be tough...in certain places...:D How did you get to "the wayne" - walking from C-town now a days?:whistle: Was it a long drag last year?

[BuckEyeCam]

Here is the picture BR is talking about -
http://www.whiteridgecabins.com/images/P1_00030.JPG

[Andy Gehle]

Ok, there's no good way to say this........
but I have a theory on the new craze to video hunts. My theory is that hunters get too involved in camera angles and lighting, etc...instead of concentrating 100% on making the shot.
This would be supported by your "team's" 50% average this weekend. 2 hits, 2 misses.
I'd guess that you've all made you share of clean shots in the past, so why would an experienced group of hunters have a 50% shot average with a bow?....because 100% of their attention is not on making the shot.
I know in my group that kind of average would not fly.
At least the immature 10 point might get a chance to grow up.
Again, just a theory but one I thought is worthy of discussion.

[BuckEyeCam]

I guess there would have been a better way to say that - but your choice is classy I suppose for you. (Your post has since been edited. Unfortunately, I read the first post which xxxxx me off)

The cameras are trail cameras not video cameras - not much to them other then leaving them alone. They are out there year round 24/7

The only video was of Brock's deer which he dropped in her tracks - So your theory is way off base.

Anyhow - not everyone is an expert like you or your "group".

Becky was working on her 4th bow shot ever on a deer - that "little" 10 point as you described. The 10 point was a good deer for her being that she has only shot at 3 prior to him and she would have been beside herself to be able to get him (as a lot of hunters would be)
SHE HAD THE "GREEN LIGHT" ON THAT DEER or for that matter any buck she wanted to harvest.

Here are pictures of 2 of the other "shots" she made with the same bow. Her first one was a spike that she also harvested. So my friend, go easy on the "miss" crap. Unless that is you have never missed then by all means carry on dude, carry on......

http://whiteridgecabins.com/images/b_index/becky_1_thb.jpg
http://whiteridgecabins.com/images/b_index/becky_thb.jpg
I am sure she would be crushed if she read this crap from you and would more than likely quit hunting. She was close to tears just over the miss so I guess your kind would seal the deal!
So if that is your intentions, JOB WELL DONE SIR..... Nerve hit with me, if you couldn't tell.

The other miss was at the same stand, same distance from a different guy (Tony) who is an excellent shot. He took a buck in KY last week with his bow so I guess he knows how to kill them.

So in your "group" if someone misses 1 time they are no longer allowed to hunt in the group any longer? (Can't wait to hear this) Who needs "antis" when there are guys like you......

[Andy Gehle]

Well, I still think it's a legitimate question and I wasn't mean in any way. I don't claim to be an expert, but I do think that reviewing misses and lost deer is a worth while endevour for everyone.
So what is the answer? Why the misses?

BTW, I agree completely about spooky deer jumping the string at 30 yards. It takes a very experienced hunter to be able to determine the deer's state, and make the shot. I've killed dozens with my bow and still do not take shots over 20 yards or so. I'd never encourage someone making their 4th shot ever to shoot at anything over 15 yards.

Again, and I honestly mean no offense, but I think having a camera pointed at me would distract me from the task at hand. For me, I couldn't help but to be aware on some level of the camera, instead of focusing all my attention on a very small spot on the deer, proper shooting form, making good shot choices, etc...

[Gunners]

If you would please include me in your group, never forget my first shot with a bow at a nice Buck, who say's I can't hit the broad side of a tree. That's exactly where the arrow ended up. Cried then laughed when I showed evreyone else.
Jeff:yikes:

[Andy Gehle]

It looks as though you've rethought your original post and did some massive editing.
Why would you chose to edit the part about the shot being at 30 yards to a "spooky" deer? Your words, not mine.
My guess is because herein lies the answer.

I just beleive there's value in learning from others' mistakes. And it is a mistake to have a new hunter shooting 30 yards at a spooky deer. It just opens the door for bad things to happen. And actually, a clean miss isn't nearly the worst outcome of this scenario.

If discussing scenarios and doing an autopsy on misses makes you uncomfortable, I'm sorry. But a website like this is for more than just crowing about successes and posting pictures. For some of us, it's about learning and improving. For me, I learn way from from failures than I do when everything goes perfectly as nature is a venue of imperfect situations.

I've made plenty of mistakes. We all have. But only did I learn from them when I took the time to review and focus on what went wrong.
Again, I'm sorry if this makes you uncomfortable.

[BuckEyeCam]

It looks as though you've rethought your original post and did some massive editing.
Why would you chose to edit the part about the shot being at 30 yards to a "spooky" deer? Your words, not mine.
My guess is because herein lies the answer.

I just beleive there's value in learning from others' mistakes. And it is a mistake to have a new hunter shooting 30 yards at a spooky deer. It just opens the door for bad things to happen. And actually, a clean miss isn't nearly the worst outcome of this scenario.

If discussing scenarios and doing an autopsy on misses makes you uncomfortable, I'm sorry. But a website like this is for more than just crowing about successes and posting pictures. For some of us, it's about learning and improving. For me, I learn way from from failures than I do when everything goes perfectly as nature is a venue of imperfect situations.

I've made plenty of mistakes. We all have. But only did I learn from them when I took the time to review and focus on what went wrong.
Again, I'm sorry if this makes you uncomfortable.
Becky's deer were harvested at 35 yards, 32 yards, 20 yards and a miss at 30 - So she has history on the yardage and knows her limits. You are just fishing now..... AND once again YOU MAKE AN ASSUMPTION AND ARE WRONG...
Give me a break about the being able to judge what a deer is going to do when you shoot them - that is such a crock. "I could tell he was going to jump so I shot low/high" - What happens if he doesn't jump then?
If she adjusted for the jump/drop - and missed because he didn't drop or jump then she would be wrong for doing that - She knows where to aim and did the best she could. If he can beat the bullseye then you cannot hardly fault the shooter. It happens all the time that is why I took it out about "the spooky deer" -

Did she learn and have questions about what happened? Sure she did and everyone was supportive and gave her answers as best they could. Without making her fell like an xxxx or that she did something wrong - because she didn't do anything wrong. She was well within her PROVEN kill zone and had the buck with his head down and broadside. (Look at the pictures).
Once again you make the assumption and were wrong.

So for you to come on here all high and mighty is just plain wrong.
I am sure your attitidue will encourage NO ONE to post about their miss for fear of being belittled by you. So what are you accomplishing by that? Absolutely NOTHING. It is guys w/ attitudes like you that keep the hunter population down.

If you want to discuss scenerios and misses on an educated, friendly manner that is one thing, then everyone can learn - But if you have to start off with "there is no good way" and "if you hadn't xxxx around with" then you are just wanting to enter into a heated debate.

Just for the record I AM NOT UNCOMFORTABLE, I AM xxxxx (we have already covered this part) - Big difference...

And if you are coming on here to tell everyone that you know EVERY scenerio and how to shoot in EVERY situation and will never miss or make a bad shot since you are so "experienced".
Then I want to be the first one to call xxxx

[Andy Gehle]

What are you so xxxxx about dude? What have I said that is out of order?

YOU are the one who said she missed a "spooky" deer at 30 yards. Spooky to me means on alert, not calm, vaguely aware that something is amiss...sounds alot different than head down and feeding. Spooky deer are string jumpers; pretty common knowledge.
My apologies on taking you at your word that is was a "spooky deer" at 30 yards.

Here are some facts:
85% of all bow shot deer are taken at yardages of 15 yards or less.
Shooting at targets is a completely different deal than shooting at a live deer. Targets don't move and rarely does a bowhunter's heart race when in the presence of a target.
Your hunter has taken 4 bow shots ever, and 3 of them are over 30 yards. Just because nothing bad happened the first two 30+ yard shots, in no way means that those are good shots to take. It just means nothing went wrong on THOSE shots, but certainly when a bowhunter chooses to shoot at 30+ yards, he knows that he is opening the door for bad things to happen.

Maybe I was just raised differently. I was always held to a 20 yard maximum with a bow for MANY years. My Dad taught me the upmost respect for a living creature, and that if I was going to chose to have the power of life or death over this animal, than it was my obligation to make sure I did everything possible to make a clean kill. Everything possible including respecting the deer's ability to react quickly, ala string jumping. To wait for a good shot at a calm deer.
Of course things went wrong. Or course I lost my composure as a youngster and took bad shots. But ALWAYS did we discuss my, and others' failures, to learn from those mistakes and avoid making them again. Again, it goes back to respect for the animal.

I'm not saying at all that I know every scenario or that I know it all. That's your anger towards me hearing something I'm not saying. I've been perfectly respectful towards you, and towards your hunting partner. And quite honestly, I could care less about your opinion of me, but care much more about our quarry so I will continue to probe legitimate questions when I feel there's something to learn from them.
The fact that you would support the notion of a new hunter, lobbing 75% of their shots from 30+ yards, to me, is worthy of discussion.
Again, I apologize if that type of introspective review somehow offends you.

[BuckEyeCam]

Well, I still think it's a legitimate question and I wasn't mean in any way. I don't claim to be an expert, but I do think that reviewing misses and lost deer is a worth while endevour for everyone.
So what is the answer? Why the misses?

BTW, I agree completely about spooky deer jumping the string at 30 yards. It takes a very experienced hunter to be able to determine the deer's state, and make the shot. I've killed dozens with my bow and still do not take shots over 20 yards or so. I'd never encourage someone making their 4th shot ever to shoot at anything over 15 yards.

Again, and I honestly mean no offense, but I think having a camera pointed at me would distract me from the task at hand. For me, I couldn't help but to be aware on some level of the camera, instead of focusing all my attention on a very small spot on the deer, proper shooting form, making good shot choices, etc...
No, you were mean - actually way past mean..... until you edited your mean post to make it sound like you were "just asking". The problem is I read your mean post prior to your editing.....Can't take that back you know.

Honestly, I think you are trying to be offensive - because the lack of tact in your posts.
Unless you were standing where the deer was standing there is no camera pointed at anyone. Once again you are wrong...... Seems to be a pattern here. See you have no experience with these cameras and yet you feel completely comfortable with giving your "expert" like advice on the camera topic. Unless you would like to enlighten me on your camera expertise as well??

Becky's 3rd buck was killed in EXACTLY the same manner -The buck stepped in front of one of the cameras right before she shot, so she has experience with this as well - Once again you assumed wrong.. See you think you know what is the right answer, but you are completely wrong. But yet you will continue to go on. What is really ironic is in this particular case Becky should be giving you advice on how to shoot deer that are in front of the camera, being that she has experience and you DON'T- but yet you continue to go on "how you would do it".

Honestly, I think you are just trying to stir crap up - I guess what I find hard to believe is after 3 nice buck kills with a bow you still consider Becky to be a "novice". I mean sure she isn't at your EXPERT level but proven quite effective with her bow over the years. At what point do you "Allow" the novice to start "making their own decisions?"
You would tell someone not to shoot past 15 yards rather than practice at the distance they plan on shooting?? Man that is good advice.... I mean we practice at the distances we set the stands up to.
Cause you know, I am sure, if you are practicing at the distance (or past) you plan on hunting makes a lot more sense to most. At least that is how we do it - practice first and know your where you hit and stay within your personal limitations, not someone else's, your own.

[Crossbow Mike]

Andy,

Your arrogance and pretentious attitude of elevated ethical principles and integrity would anger anyone. Your motivation is transparent; it is undoubtedly not to facilitate an open discussion of ethical shooting, but rather to engage in argumentative rhetoric to which you ultimately perceived as the better hunter and or archer. Perhaps you can wear a blue ribbon to display your superiority instead of demeaning a group of guys who had fun on opening day.

Anyone can negatively criticize - it is the cheapest of all comment because it requires not a modicum of the effort that suggestion requires. -Chuck Jones

[Andy Gehle]

Slow down, dude. I don't claim to be any kind of expert. Not at all. These are my personal opinions and I've made that perfectly clear.

Yes, I edited my first post. It read kind of mean. I edited it long before you started responding, not after. I chose to edit it because I'm a plain spoken, very matter of fact kind of guy. many times that comes across the wrong way in the written word, so I wnet back and chose to edit my writing style.
My choice, not a reaction to your posts.

But the message is the same. I guees I say she's a novice becasue of what YOU wrote: Becky was working on her 4th bow shot ever on a deer - that "little" 10 point as you described. The 10 point was a good deer for her being that she has only shot at 3 prior to him and she would have been beside herself to be able to get him (as a lot of hunters would be)
SHE HAD THE "GREEN LIGHT" ON THAT DEER or for that matter any buck she wanted to harvest.


Sounds like a novice to me. Novice meaning "just beginning", and yes, i think 4 shots EVER at a deer is just beginning. There's a TON to learn about being a good, responsible bow hunter. And I maintain that taking 75% of your shots at 30+ yards, froma novice, is not exactly the path of being a responsible hunter.
The proof is the result of your experience this past weekend. Shot was perfect, angle was perfect....the only thing that went wrong was the shot was too long. A "spooky" deer has too much time to react at 30+ yards.

I don't think that makes me seem like an expert or a jerk or anything else. I think it makes me a plain spoken guy who has a legitimate question worthy of debate.
Personally, I'm capable of having a productive debate without getting my bag all chapped and getting emotional. You seem to lack that quality.

Again, apologies if my honest inquiry somehow makes you uncomfortable.

[Andy Gehle]

Andy,

Your arrogance and pretentious attitude of elevated ethical principles and integrity would anger anyone. Your motivation is transparent; it is undoubtedly not to facilitate an open discussion of ethical shooting, but rather to engage in argumentative rhetoric to which you ultimately perceived as the better hunter and or archer. Perhaps you can wear a blue ribbon to display your superiority instead of demeaning a group of guys who had fun on opening day.

Anyone can negatively criticize - it is the cheapest of all comment because it requires not a modicum of the effort that suggestion requires. -Chuck Jones

That seems like a fair opinion. If you knew me better you'd realise this isn't the case, but it's certainly a fair assessment seeing as you've only been a member for a month or so.

What can I say? I like to speak my mind. I have opinions just like the one you expressed above. They are mine. It doesn't make them right or wrong, just mine.
I've never said I was the better hunter or archer, in fact I've stated many times that I've made more than my fair share of mistakes and miscalculations.
Again, your perception, but probably a fair one given that you can only go on what you've read on here.

But the fact is that due to this discussion, at least one person out there will devote some time to thinking about shot selection. And taking a personal inventory is all any of us can do at the end of the day.

Maybe I'm on an island on this one. But I still hold that taking shots over 30 yards is, at a minimum, worth discussing. Taking 3 out of 4 of your first shots EVER at a live deer at 30+ yards, in MY OPINION, is not a responsible thing to do.
Again, I'm no expert, nor do I claim to be. I've hunted for 25 years and had my share of highs and lows. My own experience, and watching those of others, has led me to make a descision that FOR ME, 20 yards and under is what I KNOW I can make a resposible shot every time. And the knowing that if I CHOSE to take a shot over 30 yards, that I'm opening the door for bad things to happen. (BTW, I don't think clean misses are bad things. But missing just several inches instead of a few feet, can be a very bad thing for the deer.

Sorry if you guys think me the a-hole for bringing up ethical questions instead of just blindly congratulating everyone on their misses.

BTW, loved the Chuck Jones quote. And if I felt that I lacked the modicum of effort, I'd think it relevent. And for the record, if you read your quote, I didn't criticize without productive suggestion. Still a great quote.

[Crossbow Mike]

"BTW, loved the Chuck Jones quote. And if I felt that I lacked the modicum of effort, I'd think it relevent. And for the record, if you read your quote, I didn't criticize without productive suggestion. Still a great quote."


Your efforts at “suggestions” are principally constructed not to provide guidance or counsel, but to sustain your own argument; therefore, the quote is quite relevant and well deserved.

Perhaps, now, we are at a disagreement not with the simple relevancy of the quote but rather with what constitutes as a “positive suggestion” (to quote you now). If you have written in a genre of positive themes of suggestion to this point then I can hardly wait to read your cynical side.

[Andy Gehle]

"BTW, loved the Chuck Jones quote. And if I felt that I lacked the modicum of effort, I'd think it relevent. And for the record, if you read your quote, I didn't criticize without productive suggestion. Still a great quote."


Your efforts at “suggestions” are principally constructed not to provide guidance or counsel, but to sustain your own argument; therefore, the quote is quite relevant and well deserved.

Perhaps, now, we are at a disagreement not with the simple relevancy of the quote but rather with what constitutes as a “positive suggestion” (to quote you now). If you have written in a genre of positive themes of suggestion to this point then I can hardly wait to read your cynical side.


You're my new favorite poster! Seriously, where have you been?
That last sentence might be the funniest thing ever written on here.
I humbly retreat.

[coonskinner]

How did you get to "the wayne" - walking from C-town now a days?:whistle: Was it a long drag last year?


:confused:

[BuckEyeCam]

Coon: I was reffering to your truck - You know you had to drive there from c-town......

[coonskinner]

Coon: I was reffering to your truck - You know you had to drive there from c-town......

well i did walk in from c town sat. eve...but sun. morn i was bout a couple miles away or more out by camp an walked to my stand from camp...i will be there this weekend again and as always the light will be on...:D

[BuckEyeCam]

Slow down, dude. I don't claim to be any kind of expert. Not at all. These are my personal opinions and I've made that perfectly clear.

Yes, I edited my first post. It read kind of mean. I edited it long before you started responding, not after. I chose to edit it because I'm a plain spoken, very matter of fact kind of guy. many times that comes across the wrong way in the written word, so I wnet back and chose to edit my writing style.
My choice, not a reaction to your posts.

But the message is the same. I guees I say she's a novice becasue of what YOU wrote: Becky was working on her 4th bow shot ever on a deer - that "little" 10 point as you described. The 10 point was a good deer for her being that she has only shot at 3 prior to him and she would have been beside herself to be able to get him (as a lot of hunters would be)
SHE HAD THE "GREEN LIGHT" ON THAT DEER or for that matter any buck she wanted to harvest.


Sounds like a novice to me. Novice meaning "just beginning", and yes, i think 4 shots EVER at a deer is just beginning. There's a TON to learn about being a good, responsible bow hunter. And I maintain that taking 75% of your shots at 30+ yards, froma novice, is not exactly the path of being a responsible hunter.
The proof is the result of your experience this past weekend. Shot was perfect, angle was perfect....the only thing that went wrong was the shot was too long. A "spooky" deer has too much time to react at 30+ yards.

I don't think that makes me seem like an expert or a jerk or anything else. I think it makes me a plain spoken guy who has a legitimate question worthy of debate.
Personally, I'm capable of having a productive debate without getting my bag all chapped and getting emotional. You seem to lack that quality.

Again, apologies if my honest inquiry somehow makes you uncomfortable.
What a load of BS - "OOPS my bad on the "mean" part, that is just how I am..." Your advice carries the same relevance as your first post did... Came here to stir up crap.
You know, had you asked about it in the first place rather than assuming that we are all a bunch of hacks, would probably carry a lot more weight with me (and others).
When you come in here spouting off about how "I would have done it and oh by the way I have no tact" it leaves no doubt in my mind where your opinions rank with me..
Your opinions are fine and probably valid for you as a bow shooter - but if someone is comfortable with the shot and has made them before with success then you cannot argue the FACTS. You can talk BS all day long about what YOU would do and how YOU would not "LET" someone do that. Wow to have that kind of power must be such a burden.
Bet you are a load of fun to hunt with - Your attitude alone would be enough to make some hunters miss for fear of losing their right (given by you) to be able to shoot out to 20 yards. (I can see it now, "but I just got OK'd by Andy to shoot at 20 yards - now I miss at 20 yards and will be punished for such a foolish thing, I guess it is back to 15 yards for me now") Most guys shake when they draw the bow back because they are pumped about the hunt - guys that hunt with you shake for fear of missing and loosing the "Andy" given right.....
You base your "novice" on 3 deer shot - but novice to me would be never shot a deer - never shot a deer at that distance - first time hunter - etc..
But the facts are -
3 shots - 3 kills (2 of which were nice bucks) better average than I would say 90% off all hunters out there have. Probably including you.
So we have established the fact that she can kill deer at 30 yards. That is a fact no argument there.
4th shot missed - at 30 yards - was she nervous? did the buck jump the string? - did she just miss? Well since she was there by herself we will never know. Could the same thing have happened at 20 yards. Absolutely. 15 yards? Absolutely. Does this mean she follow the "andy" rule and only shoot at 15 yards - Absolutely NOT - This means she needs to do the best she can next time - know her yardage, her comfort zone and practice. That is the best she can do. She should not have to take crap from some wanna be bow expert who is only going to belittle the entire hunt.

You thought it was some "hack" out there flinging arrows randomly at a small, not up to your standards, ten point. But you never considered the FACT that she isn't a HACK and knows how to kill deer - Best case clean kill - second best case CLEAN miss. As far as the size of the 10 point makes no difference, she would have been happy to harvest that 10 as most would have been but you just had to go there too right? Add insult to injury - great forum tactic..... Kick a hunter when they are down, that sort of thing.
Why make friends when you can make enemies right? Look at me "I am the trophy hunter and IMHO you should have not even thought about a shot on that dink" "Good thing you missed now he can grow up" - I myself like to hunt large bucks and probably would not have shot that 10 point, but I would have been as happy as ever if she did - and for you to spout off about the shot AND the little buck comment was just too much. It is all relative see

10 yards, 20 yards, 30 yards there are no gimmies on any of them - higher percentages? Not always the case - some hunters actually shoot better at longer distances because they actually concentrate on the shot more because of the distances. Those that is, that actually practice at that distance.

As far as getting "chapped", well let's just put it plainly, You bet your xxx I am chapped. Talk about Becky, you might as well be talking about me so take the good with the bad and the ugly.
Fair enough? - and I am not pulling punches, recanting rude comments, making it seem like it isn't what it is..... I know where I stand and I will stand there. You? Not so much......

[BuckEyeCam]

well i did walk in from c town sat. eve...but sun. morn i was bout a couple miles away or more out by camp an walked to my stand from camp...i will be there this weekend again and as always the light will be on...:D
I know it was my attempt to lighten this topic up a little - humor not always my strong point you know...........

[brock ratcliff]

I am sorry I missed Andy's original post, I enjoy people showing their xxxx.
Andy, your theory holds no water, I was hoping to video BEC killing a deer, as it turned out he filmed me killing the doe.
I think it is plain to see, you have crossed a line with your assumptions, Becky is a fine lady and hunter and you have no business passing judgement on her. You put me in mind of a snotty-nosed little prick pulling the pretty girl's pig-tails, it is all too silly, so go away.

[Andy Gehle]

Oh, you're fun BuckEyeCam.
Ok, I never said she was hack at all. You "quoted" me several times but never accurately. Here's an accurate quote in my very first post:
"I'd guess that you've all made you share of clean shots in the past, so why would an experienced group of hunters have a 50% shot average with a bow?...."
Clean shots. Experienced hunters. Again you're reading things into this because you're way too emotional and your logic is far from linear.
When I talk about "letting" someone do something, I mean my kids. I can and will control how they hunt for the first several years. It's my right and my duty as a sportsman and a parent.
I'm not attempting to control you or anyone else, just trying to ask a legitimate question about reasonable shooting distances.

But I do love your "facts" too. "3 shots - 3 kills ...uh, no actually it's 4 shots 3 kills. 75% success rate.
And that rate drops when going 30+ yards down to 66%. (2 for 3)

That seems pretty typical with most bow hunters at those ranges. What I'm saying is that that rate can go WAY up when the yardages drop.

The problem here is you just think I'm an ahole. That's fine with me, but it's clouding your ability to form a logical arguement and your judgement.
There's just no way that taking your first 3 of your first 4 shots EVER at a live deer at ranges of 30+ yards is a good thing. The friggin' proof is in the pudding; 66% success rate on deer at 30+ yards.
Quite honestly, you might be the only bow hunter on the planet that thinks that's a good average and that it isn't even worthy of being examined.

We're getting nowhere fast here. I'm a jerk, you're a protective mother bird whose baby can do no wrong. Neither is making any progress.
Feel free to flame me out, call me names whatever. Don't care.
There's an old saying about arguing with a fool.......
I'm done.

[Andy Gehle]

I am sorry I missed Andy's original post, I enjoy people showing their ass.
Andy, your theory holds no water, I was hoping to video BEC killing a deer, as it turned out he filmed me killing the doe.
I think it is plain to see, you have crossed a line with your assumptions, Becky is a fine lady and hunter and you have no business passing judgement on her. You put me in mind of a snotty-nosed little prick pulling the pretty girl's pig-tails, it is all too silly, so go away.

Oh you guys are great. Very nice indeed!! LOL!!
I really haven't said anything offensive at all. Please go back and show me where I did, or where I called her anything even slightly near "snotty-nosed little rick "

You guys are chavenists. You treat Becky as if she's not an adult and can't handle defending her own choices. It's really quite offensive when you step back from it. She's just another bow hunter in my world. It never entered my mind about what kind of person she is, or if she's a man or woman, or whatever.
I just had some legitimate questions about the hunter's choices in the field.
Has nothing to do with the person at all, yet somehow you two have twisted it into so.

You both should go apologize to Becky right now.:D

[Gunners]

Well this thread started off with me giving my 5 cents worth, just an opinion right or wrong up for debate. But let us not get our undies in a bunch over it, (those would belong to the wife/ nice Thongs!) Keep the banter up with logical thinking and opinions and all will be fine. I have actually aggreed with both of them on different angles. It's like being the jury in a trial, ( I would of hung O.J. by the way). So lets keep it up with out the name jabs and let us just keep our opinions to ourselves or wriiten out in text on this thread.
Thanks
Jeff

[Tufelhundin]

You're my new favorite poster! Seriously, where have you been?
That last sentence might be the funniest thing ever written on here.
I humbly retreat.



Who was your favorite??? :bouncy:


Oh, second thought here......If I ever post that I missed just assume that I suck and leave the BS out. :whistle: :rolleyes:

[mullskinner]

Who was your favorite??? :bouncy:


Oh, second thought here......If I ever post that I missed just assume that I suck and leave the BS out. :whistle: :rolleyes:


TUFFY ,
STAY OUT OF THIS ....DIS LIL PEE FESTIVAL DOAN CONCERN YOU ....:eek: ;) :whistle:

[geezer]

YA HEAR DAT TUFFY :bouncy: :bouncy: :bouncy: :bouncy: :whistle: :mischeif: TUFFY ,
STAY OUT OF THIS ....DIS LIL PEE FESTIVAL DOAN CONCERN YOU ....:eek: ;) :whistle:

[Tufelhundin]

Maybe I'll become like one of those Mallards or Geese that get captured and released........what do you call them?????:whistle: :irked: :whistle:

Nothing toward Andy...but I just think if it looks like it,, feels like it, and smells like it....then it must be.

By the way...is Andy real or is it somebody else?????:whistle: :tsk: :shhh:


Chapter 5...............:nono:

[geezer]

Maybe I'll become like one of those Mallards or Geese that get captured and released........what do you call them?????:whistle: :irked: :whistle:

Nothing toward Andy...but I just think if it looks like it,, feels like it, and smells like it....then it must be.

By the way...is Andy real or is it somebody else?????:whistle: :shhh:


Chapter 5...............:nono:


ooooooooooooooooooooh ut oh - dis b taken a badz turn :tsk: :tsk: :tsk: :mischeif:

[mullskinner]

Maybe I'll become like one of those Mallards or Geese that get captured and released........what do you call them?????:whistle: :irked: :whistle:

Nothing toward Andy...but I just think if it looks like it,, feels like it, and smells like it....then it must be.

By the way...is Andy real or is it somebody else?????:whistle: :tsk: :shhh:


Chapter 5...............:nono:

WOOOW WOOW WAIT A MINUTE TUFFY :Modified_police: WHAT ANDY YOU TALKIN BOUT :confused:

[Andy Gehle]

I have no idea what Tuffy is talking about. Ask around, I've invited lots of guys on here to hunt, lent them bows, met them at Meet and Greets, etc...

Back to some productive debate, although I'm not a big fan of their forum, these guys have some of the best huntings article archives going. This one sums up my point better than was able to:

http://www.bowsite.com/bowsite/features/practical_bowhunter/shotdistance/index.html

[geezer]

I have no idea what Tuffy is talking about. Ask around, I've invited lots of guys on here to hunt, lent them bows, met them at Meet and Greets, etc...

Back to some productive debate, although I'm not a big fan of their forum, these guys have some of the best huntings article archives going. This one sums up my point better than was able to:

http://www.bowsite.com/bowsite/features/practical_bowhunter/shotdistance/index.html

DON'T WORRY TUFFY HAS NO IDEA WHAT HES TALKING ABOUT EITHER :D :whistle: :mischeif:

[mullskinner]

I have no idea what Tuffy is talking about. Ask around, I've invited lots of guys on here to hunt, lent them bows, met them at Meet and Greets, etc...

Back to some productive debate, although I'm not a big fan of their forum, these guys have some of the best huntings article archives going. This one sums up my point better than was able to:

http://www.bowsite.com/bowsite/features/practical_bowhunter/shotdistance/index.html


HEEE HEEE MEMBER WHEN YOU CALLED MUH A TOOL ANDY :confused: WE GOTZ OVER DAT DIDN'T WE :D YOU SHOULD BE SHOOTIN TRAD GEAR ...:coolgleamA:

[geezer]

HEEE HEEE MEMBER WHEN YOU CALLED MUH A TOOL ANDY :confused: WE GOTZ OVER DAT DIDN'T WE :D YOU SHOULD BE SHOOTIN TRAD GEAR ...:coolgleamA:

DANG MULL WE BE LUCKY :bouncy: - WEZ NOT SMART ENUFF TO GETZ INTA A DEBAITZ :D :D - WE JUST MAKE PEOPLE PIZZED OFF - TINK TUFFY AND COON B MAD AT US :yikes:

[mullskinner]

DANG MULL WE BE LUCKY :bouncy: - WEZ NOT SMART ENUFF TO GETZ INTA A DEBAITZ :D :D - WE JUST MAKE PEOPLE PIZZED OFF - TINK TUFFY AND COON B MAD AT US :yikes:

NAW GEEZER THEY AIN'T MAD AT US .....JUST REMEMBER 1 THING GEEZER ..:rolleyes: EVERY BODY IS WELCOME AT DEER CAMP WAYNE ...:D

[geezer]

NAW GEEZER THEY AIN'T MAD AT US .....JUST REMEMBER 1 THING GEEZER ..:rolleyes: EVERY BODY IS WELCOME AT DEER CAMP WAYNE ...:D

OH YA I FORGETZ DAT :D - WELL GUESS WE JACKED THIS THREAD :mad: - SORRY :whistle: :mischeif:

[mullskinner]

:woohoo1: :woohoo1: :woohoo1: OH YA I FORGETZ DAT :D - WELL GUESS WE JACKED THIS THREAD :mad: - SORRY :whistle: :mischeif:


YEA SORRY GUY'S WE B SORRY :rolleyes: BACK TO THE PEE'IN MATCH ...:bouncy: :bouncy:

[BuckEyeCam]

Oh, you're fun BuckEyeCam.
Ok, I never said she was hack at all. You "quoted" me several times but never accurately. Here's an accurate quote in my very first post:
"I'd guess that you've all made you share of clean shots in the past, so why would an experienced group of hunters have a 50% shot average with a bow?...."
Clean shots. Experienced hunters. Again you're reading things into this because you're way too emotional and your logic is far from linear.
When I talk about "letting" someone do something, I mean my kids. I can and will control how they hunt for the first several years. It's my right and my duty as a sportsman and a parent.
I'm not attempting to control you or anyone else, just trying to ask a legitimate question about reasonable shooting distances.

But I do love your "facts" too. "3 shots - 3 kills ...uh, no actually it's 4 shots 3 kills. 75% success rate.
And that rate drops when going 30+ yards down to 66%. (2 for 3)

That seems pretty typical with most bow hunters at those ranges. What I'm saying is that that rate can go WAY up when the yardages drop.

The problem here is you just think I'm an xxxx. That's fine with me, but it's clouding your ability to form a logical arguement and your judgement.
There's just no way that taking your first 3 of your first 4 shots EVER at a live deer at ranges of 30+ yards is a good thing. The friggin' proof is in the pudding; 66% success rate on deer at 30+ yards.
Quite honestly, you might be the only bow hunter on the planet that thinks that's a good average and that it isn't even worthy of being examined.

We're getting nowhere fast here. I'm a jerk, you're a protective mother bird whose baby can do no wrong. Neither is making any progress.
Feel free to flame me out, call me names whatever. Don't care.
There's an old saying about arguing with a fool.......
I'm done.
Here is from the EXPERT ANDY: (I guess the broadside 30 yard shot is not RISKY ENOUGH for you - OR do you change your shot preference based on the size of the buck?)

Also - Just for the record is that a crossbow bolt sticking out of that buck?

HERE IS A QUOTE _ YOUR QUOTE _ ANDY_ LET ME KNOW IF I GET IT WRONG OK? I even left the spelling error in there so you would know it was yours.(Does this come straight from your long line of ethical family training of 20 yard shots or is this a xxxxxxxx shot you were talking about earlier in this post on what NOT TO TAKE?)


"Bit of a risky shot at this 9 pointer. Facing staright at me and slightly quartering to the left"

http://www.ohiosportsman.com/photopost/data/538/medium/415Deer_005.jpg

Funny how you are the one asking the questions about ethics, shot percentages and all the rest of your "inquiring minds" want to know xxx but left this piece of xxx shot out of the entire conversation..

Kinda ironic that you would be questioning ANYONE's shot placement when you actually post something like this? I mean seriously a 30 yard broadside shot is a cake walk compared to the shot you took on this deer.

So I guess if you want to continue this topic maybe we should have you go on about how your "high percentage shots" have paid off for you.
With a shot like that - (I will type slow so you get it)
You should not be offering anyone shot advice, dogging anyone about shots taken when you post xxxxx shots like that clearly for everyone to see.

As far as this "xxxxx match" is concerned - you should stand down now and slowly back out of this one, Andy.

[coonskinner]

DANG MULL WE BE LUCKY :bouncy: - WEZ NOT SMART ENUFF TO GETZ INTA A DEBAITZ :D :D - WE JUST MAKE PEOPLE PIZZED OFF - TINK TUFFY AND COON B MAD AT US :yikes:

:confused: ...

[Andy Gehle]

Yup, that's me alright. To answer your question, yes that's a crossbow bolt. Shot out of a crossbow with a scope on it. That deer was shot at 9 yards from the ground. I know the speed of my bow, and at 9 yards that deer is going to be EXACTLY where he was when I shot to when the arrow hits him.
And when I put friggin' crosshairs on a deer at 9 yards, head on from the ground, well let's face it, it doesn't take a great marksman to pull that one off now does it?
Risky shot? Not to be arrogant, but with my weapon from the ground, not at all. Again, I don't pretend it takes an expert marksman to shoot accurately with a crossbow with a scope. Just good choices and the ability to get real close. And the result is boiler room. He's on the wall right now.
But when I post it on a forum, hell yeah I'm going to bring attention to the shot placement and that it should indeed be considered a risky shot. I think that shot is a low percentage shot, unless the conditions all line up, then it can be a very effective shot. The situation for me couldn't have been more perfect. I was on the ground with a scoped weapon, the buck occupied with a doe.
You think that's the only picture I had? Friggin' sun in my eyes, shadows all over me, and the arrow still in? Of course not. But we all had a good thread on shot placement that was inspired by the picture and my comments.
Like this thread could be if you didn't take criticism so personally.

I offer this reply because I think the topic is a good one. God knows it beats the xxxxx out of the "Nothing" thread. But I don't want you to confuse my reply as an explanation. I'm very comfortable with my choices and results.

[Ohio Sportsman]

It does not matter what it was taken with, thats a nice buck..... period.

To some that would be the buck of a lifetime, I would use any of the 3 weapons (bow, crossbow, gun) to harvest it that I could. I promise you that I would not mind, if a buck like that had my bolt sticking out of it. :)

[Tufelhundin]

It does not matter what it was taken with, thats a nice buck..... period.

To some that would be the buck of a lifetime, I would use any of the 3 weapons (bow, crossbow, gun) to harvest it that I could. I promise you that I would not mind, if a buck like that had my bolt sticking out of it. :)


GREAT DEER for sure...deer of a lifetime for me....with a .270.

Andy....I have no idea why I added your name to that last blurp...:coco: ...for it wasnt even a statement, I have read your post on here way before I ever joined. Just ticked at what is going on here...not necessarly this thread....

[Tufelhundin]

http://www.ohiosportsman.com/photopost/data/538/medium/415Deer_005.jpg


man...oh man...dats a good un.....:D

[coonskinner]

:dizzy: ...

[BuckEyeCam]

Yup, that's me alright. To answer your question, yes that's a crossbow bolt. Shot out of a crossbow with a scope on it. That deer was shot at 9 yards from the ground. I know the speed of my bow, and at 9 yards that deer is going to be EXACTLY where he was when I shot to when the arrow hits him.
And when I put friggin' crosshairs on a deer at 9 yards, head on from the ground, well let's face it, it doesn't take a great marksman to pull that one off now does it?
Risky shot? Not to be arrogant, but with my weapon from the ground, not at all. Again, I don't pretend it takes an expert marksman to shoot accurately with a crossbow with a scope. Just good choices and the ability to get real close. And the result is boiler room. He's on the wall right now.
But when I post it on a forum, hell yeah I'm going to bring attention to the shot placement and that it should indeed be considered a risky shot. I think that shot is a low percentage shot, unless the conditions all line up, then it can be a very effective shot. The situation for me couldn't have been more perfect. I was on the ground with a scoped weapon, the buck occupied with a doe.
You think that's the only picture I had? Friggin' sun in my eyes, shadows all over me, and the arrow still in? Of course not. But we all had a good thread on shot placement that was inspired by the picture and my comments.
Like this thread could be if you didn't take criticism so personally.

I offer this reply because I think the topic is a good one. God knows it beats the xxxxx out of the "Nothing" thread. But I don't want you to confuse my reply as an explanation. I'm very comfortable with my choices and results.

I tell you what Andy - You pull the "playground, it wasn't me" xxxx and then sit back and say "well I don't see why you are taking this so personally" - You know exactly why. Had you posted the way you are right now then I wouldn't have taken it personally. "Gee why are you taking this personally, I don't see why.... can't you take some honest criticism?" What xxx You know the answers just don't want to come out and say - When you come out on the attack then back out edit and act like nothing was posted, don't expect everyone to just think everything is ok now.

The point I am trying to make is you took a shot based on your skills - whether it be with any weapon it was based on your skills. Just like Becky took with her crossbow with a scope from an enclosed blind.
Which honestly you can have the best equipment out there but it still comes down to how well you personally use it - not anyone else but you.

It should not make a difference whether it is a small doe or a large buck, everyone should make the shot/no shot based on their experience and equipment used not the "I might never get this chance again" theory.

Most overlook your shot because of the size of the buck "Heck yeah I would have taken the shot" - not because it was a high percentage shot but because they might never get another chance again. Which in my opinion is wrong. Completely wrong. If the buck had been smaller you would have probably waited for the shot to present itself or not taking one at all. But because it was a large buck you took a very low percentage shot.
And somehow that is ok or different? Or did it just come down to you were comfortable with the shot and took it because you know you equipment?
Any of this sound familiar?
If I am running on about risky shots and how they shouldn't be taken then I guess I shouldn't post pictures of deer that I have taken risky shots on - that is all I am saying.
You know the "do as I say not as I do" sort of thing.

And here is what they TEACH on proper ethical bow shots.

Where to Aim - Broadside:
Bow - Broadside game represents the best bow shot because it requires the least amount of penetration to reach the vital organs, which is especially important in large big game animals. The broadside shot is also the best single angle for accomplishing a double-lung hit, resulting in the collapse of both lungs.....................
Quartering Toward:
Bow - This is one of the poorest bow shots and should not be taken. Picking a spot behind the shoulder could result in the arrow barely missing the vital organs and angling back into the stomach and intestines. Heavy shoulder bones shield the majority of the vital organs from penetration by arrow. An error of only on inch or two will result in a miss or a non-fatal hit in the shoulder. Wait for the animal to pass by and take a broadside or quartering-away shot.

[mullskinner]

http://www.ohiosportsman.com/photopost/data/538/medium/415Deer_005.jpg


man...oh man...dats a good un.....:D

NICE DEER ..!!!!!!!!!:coolgleamA:

[brock ratcliff]

Darn right that is a nice deer. Such a regal animal....too bad he stepped in front of a self-righteous xxxx xxxx that does not mind his quarry suffering for hours on end due to being gut shot. I personally prefer my quarry to not only die quickly, but as painlessly as possible. I hope you are not confused here Andy, so I will make it plain for you........I dont think I like you. I dont appreciate you taking the time out of your day to pass judgement on my friends, that is what "Team Scent Smoker" is, just my friends and I have already judged them to be well worth my friendship.

The shots that were missed were not bad shots to take, being broadside and all. The purpose of this thread was simply to share what I thought was a fun-filled weekend with friends having a great time. It was not, to open up for discussion, what a ANDY thought of our efforts. Tell your children how great you are, I am certain they are more likely to believe your xxx than am I.

[eschatts]

Easy guys, there is nothing wrong with a difference of opinion. Lets just keep this civil, please.

Ed

[Andy Gehle]

Darn right that is a nice deer. Such a regal animal....too bad he stepped in front of a self-righteous xxxxx xxxx that does not mind his quarry suffering for hours on end due to being gut shot. I personally prefer my quarry to not only die quickly, but as painlessly as possible.

What's with all the little xxxxxx stuff dude? You seem infatuated with my xxxxx.
As far as the shot, wanna see the picture of the deer's heart sliced in half?
That was a 300lb deer and his heart was as big as softball...the heart right in my face less than ten yards away with nothing obstructing it. Look at the angle again and imagine where my arrow is inside his chest cavity and tell me I'm wrong.
I stuck an arrow right through it, and I could do it again 50 times in a row with a scoped crossbow. Again, not because I'm Robin Hood, just because the situation was perfect, I know my bow, and I've shot enough deer to know how quickly he could react.

I guess the main difference here is that I don't mind a bit discussing my shot selection or choices. In fact, I think it's one of the more interesting debates archers can have. Certainly one of the most productive as ultimately, it seems everyone is interested in good, clean, humane kills.

But somehow I'm an xxxxx for even questioning a pattern of 30+yard shots from a beginner. All I'm saying is that SOME beginners, not necessarily your friend, but some don't fully understand the trajectories of their arrows at those distances, the amount of time a deer has to react at those distances, and the state a deer needs to be in to shoot at it at those distances.
And I don't think those kinds of questions are totally out of line either. How else does someone who spends that much time at the range miss a deer cleanly? I think it would due to a miscalculation of one of the three questions above.

You guys are taking this whole thing way too personally. Grow a pair for crying out loud. The fact that a total stranger gets you guys that riled up, I mean c'mon, I'm just a schmuck with a keyboard and an opinion.
If you don't like my opinion that's fine and who really cares. But some nerve must have been hit or something cause well, your reactions speak for themselves.

I'm sure your friend is an enthusiastic hunter and a great person. I never suggested anything differently. I just don't think anyone is doing that person any favors encouraging them to continue to shot at 30+ yard distances to "spooky" deer, which is indeed what you originally wrote.
It's a recipe for disappointment. You yourself said she was near tears and could possibly quit hunting over any descending opinions regarding this scenario. That doesn't sound to me like you're setting her up for success.
But hey, just my opinion. Feel free to discard it as quickly as I have yours.

[BuckEyeCam]

That deer you took was gut shot and not gutted - Unless you hunt out of your street clothes I would say you didn't find him until quite sometime after you had put the shot on him. Like the next day or two maybe? (It is your story tell it any way you want)

Ethical shot? nope. Hell it is even in the "handbook" not to take a shot like like. You do realize that right? Tell me you read the part about NEVER SHOOT A DEER QUARTERING TOWARDS YOU WITH A BOW... Maybe you should write them, show them your picture and explain to the "experts" why they are wrong about their guide to shot placement.

Shoot that shot 50 times again? You shoot that shot on 4 deer you would be lucky to recover 1 of them. But yet you are convinced that you could pull it off even though EVERYONE knows that shot should not be taken.
Are you debating this or trying to convince yourself?

Is that a shot you are telling me is ok to take? Or that you would come on a forum and suggest that everyone take? Because that is what you are doing right now - you are defending your absolute poor choice in shot placement, backing it up with the "picture proof" it works by posting the picture and bragging about your risky shot. So are you teaching anyone right now? The same ones you were "worried" about earlier being mislead by a 30 yrd broadside shot that missed... And how it was such a poor choice and needed to be discussed.. WOW shed some light here - are you for proving your point on ethical shots or would you rather defend your poor shot.

If he would have been smaller but still a shooter buck you would have waited for the correct shot - rather than the "wish and prayer" shot you took because he was a "deer of a lifetime". You made the mistake of someone with a lot less experience than you claim. No shot means no shot. It doesn't mean it's ok if it is the only hope you have of getting the buck of a lifetime.

And if you are suggesting that it is an acceptable shot to take you are wrong. You got lucky plain and simple.

[Andy Gehle]

Well that's one opinion, and you've successfully distacted the attention to me and my choices. That's fine.
No, that's not a shot I would encourage others to take. I openly admitted this a few posts back. Possibly your reading comprehension is lacking here.
But you go out back tonight and set a 3D target up facing you at 9 yards. Turn the decoy just slightly one direction, maybe 5-10 degrees.
Now tell me you can't hit that animal's heart 50 out of 50 times from the ground.

That shot with a scoped crossbow, from the ground is an easy shot. Very easy.
That shot out of a tree, at a longer yardage, with a recurve....not so great of a shot.
I've explained this several times. I feel VERY comfortable with my position.

You can scream whatever you want abotu gut shot, etc.. It wasn't. It's heart was cut in half, just as I knew it would be.
The only thing that happened with that deer is he bled almost entirely inside. Only a few drops of blood for trailing. (It's obvious when you look at the picture) The deer doubled back, but ultimately went less than 80 yards.

And yes, I'm proud of the fact that I found him the next day. Very proud. I had searched in complete darkness the night of the shot for 5 hours. And returned the next day with a tracking dog and a handfull of buddies.
I'm not the kind of guy who gives up on a lost deer. And this deer was never lost, just not where we expected him to be. It's amazing how a 300 pound deer can hide himself just 80 yards from where he was shot. I've seen other hunters give up looking for deer MUCH earlier, only to continue to hunt. That aint the way it works with me. I would've looked for that, or any other deer, for the rest of the month if that's what it took, and never dreamed of climbing back into a stand until the matter was resolved.

And BTW, if you think that's my deer of a lifetime, you may have me pegged wrong.

Maybe you're still missing the point. Neither you or I are the judge and jury on ethical shots. I know what ethical shots are for me, due to my results. I have plenty of results to feel confident that my personal choices are sound ones. But when I see others with poor results, like a 66% hit/miss average on 30+ yard shots, I absolutely think it's legitimate to question shot selection. In fact, I think it should be a requirement.

The difference is that I think it's productive, even when the shot in question is mine. You however, think it's a personal attack for some reason.

This whole thread is just a circular arguement between a xxxx xxxxx and a couple of xxx xxxxxx xxxxxx. Maybe others are getting a kick out of it and at least questioning a thing or two, but I'm growing kind of bored reiterating the same point over and over when your minds are clearly closed.

Good luck, shoot straight and all that jazz. I gotta go hustle up a few bucks to pay the bills so I can't play long today.

Knock yourselves out.

[brock ratcliff]

Heart shot? There again, tell that crap to your kids. I am a little more familiar with a deer's anatomy than you wish, I know where to find a deer's heart and it is NOT where your arrow went. That big smelly gray thing you thought was a heart is called a stomach. I for one am glad Becky and many other "new" hunters are getting their instruction from BEC, he knows where the vital kill zone is located even though some under his tutelage will occasionally miss it.

That is enough wasted time on a waste........it sure was a great weekend!:D

[DLC]

Come on guys, enough of the name calling. Nice example to show all the anti's. You guys both made some good points. The Smoke Screen boys are mad cause Andy questioned them. Andy's shot was not a good example of a prefered bow shot, but he knew what he was doing, would I take either a 30 yrd or a quarter to shot, NO!

BTW nice buck Andy, and I think we all know that the deer was not gut shot, how can a crossbow bolt go through the chest cavity like that and be gut shot, not to mention a crossbow bolt sticking out that far would not even reach the guts!!

Now get out and do some hunting and shot straight!

[coonskinner]

xplain a buck of a lifetime...i mean uh...dont they just come round once in a lifetime...it used to be that way...for me it still is,i'm still lookin...:irked: and who can say whats ethical...some an i'm talkin high profile guys bigger than anybuddy here have differing opinions on what shot is ethical an what is not...dont get me wrong,i like a broadside shot and quartering away...i'm old school an not in it for any money...remember beatty???now who would take that shot...and that was a deer of a lifetime...and i agree with andy,his deer is by far no deer of a lifetime,i see those all the time,not a put down andy,just what i see...and for his shot...well like ole beatty,they got their deer...and it took a perfect shot,both were capable and had capable equipment to do it...these compounds and xbows are as accurate as a gun to 50 yds. in the right hands...one must be able to remain cool though when shootin at a nice buck...andy was,beatty was...bec wasnt...now tell me ...why was that...was it to far away and a hunter that was very nervous...could she make that shot on a rubber deer???well she learned a lesson,how many of us have not missed a deer???especially in our first attempts...i'm guilty...and i can still miss...even at 10 yds...muh heart still thumps...after 40+ years...is there something wrong with that???to me thats a reason i hunt...if i dont hit the deer where i'm suppose to...lord let me miss the whole thing...please...i have seen that same shot andy did on dozens ovf deer...and if it is put where he put it...its most likely curtains for the deer...time to find it now,andy did...case closed on that,no matter gut or heart...and if it penetrated far enough my guess is an from what i've actually seen...it would get both...take out lethal organs including the gut ...now for what gets me here and you all know my take on this...is this really hunting???sorry...to me it looks like a shooti gallery with living mckenzies...what skill does this take to find a deer...maybe i'v lost what hunting is...maybe things have passed me up...i guess or is this the easy road to sucess...i just cant understand why anybuddy would hunt like this unless quick kills are needed...thats my take on this topic and all these pics i've been viewing all summer...now we see them lining up to be shot and its on cam...people walkin by wavin...oh well i'm in hot water now...i best get back out on the wayne an just hunt the way huntin was meant to be done ...maybe one day i'll find my buck of a lifetime,out on the wayne...not in front of a feeder...
well i aint called nobuddy no names so when i get lashed out at at least dont get to that level...:D

[Bird33]

The problem we have here is hunters accusing others of not being up to their standards/ethics/whatever. Each hunter must establish those for himself/herself depending on thier own intelligence and skill level. Who am I or any of you to tell a beginner she can't take a 30 yard shot if she feels capable of it? That's how you learn. You practice, then you test yourself. And I am not going to tell Andy he is wrong for taking that shot he obviously feels 100% confident in.

As for me personally, I wouldn't have taken it (or at least I hope I wouldn't if in the situation), but that is because I don't have absolute confidence in being absolutely lethal with it. I have learned my lesson with that shot and now pass. I learned the hard way as many of us must. I would think that for most hunters that is an extremely poor shot choice for many reasons even with a scope and crossbow. And to me the shot itself looks quite high and wide to hit near the heart, but I guess it could possibly be deceptive due to how the deer is laying in the picture, so I'll give the benefit of the doubt to Andy.

But my point is that we as a community of hunters need to encourage each other to make ethical decisions for the good of the animals and the sport. And I think that is what you are all trying to do, but we should remember that we can do this without attacking, especially when we are all more vulnerable to attack (because of our own mistakes) than we'd each like to admit.

[XX78]

Another unfortunate battle of wits, with the same annoying denominator. Where's my fly swatter?

Lock this tread please I can't take it anymore.

[brock ratcliff]

Come on guys, enough of the name calling. Nice example to show all the anti's. You guys both made some good points. The Smoke Screen boys are mad cause Andy questioned them. Andy's shot was not a good example of a prefered bow shot, but he knew what he was doing, would I take either a 30 yrd or a quarter to shot, NO!

BTW nice buck Andy, and I think we all know that the deer was not gut shot, how can a crossbow bolt go through the chest cavity like that and be gut shot, not to mention a crossbow bolt sticking out that far would not even reach the guts!!

Now get out and do some hunting and shot straight!

No. we are xxxxx because Andy got self-righteous. He made the assumption those shots were missed due to added pressure from cameras. The only hunt being filmed resulted in a deer on the ground with an arrow behind the shoulder. He attacked, then retreated. Sort of like the kid on the playground throwing the first punch and the kid that smacks him back is the only one that gets caught.

[deerhunt45]

the problem we have here is that the debate (a good one at that) could be taken personal from the start, whether intended/unintended, edited/unedited or whatever. (take it from me, when you get "typy" with a long post, someone will read it before you get back to edit it).

i am not taking sides here. i was asked to moderate this forum, so i feel it my duty to say the name calling is way out of line; and it came from both camps. it doesn't matter who started it.

i would like to add i appreciate the posts from the Scent Smoker "gang". congrats on a good opening weekend. looking forward to more posts from you.

andy, that is a great deer and i commend you on your dedication to ethical hunting.

let the debate continue in a civil manner. it is one thing to question a person's beliefs, thoughts and even experience. but when you attack someone personally with defamatory inuendos or out and out nasty names, it causes nothing but trouble. keep in mind many people can and will read your posts.

45

[Andy Gehle]

First of all, look at my original post and tell me when it was edited. Well before the next post came in. It was MY deciscion to edit, and if you knew me better you'd know for dam sure I wouldn't edit a word for soemone else's reasons.
As to the retreating, that's kind of funny. I obviously haven't. In fact, I'm the only one who has remained on topic to the discussion while you continue to travel down the personal insult road tangent. I don't blazme you, it's your only choice as your logic to the debate is glaringly lacking in substance.

Coon, I don't mind your perception of my hunting method. Not at all. I used to feel the same way about crossbows.
When I was 20 years old, 20 years ago, I got tossed out of my car at 70 mph and into a tree. A tree branch went through my left shoulder and tore off my deltoid muscle.
Without a left deltoid muscle, I can no longer pull back my compound, much less hold it at draw.
So for me it's either crossbow or no bow. And there was no way I could limit myself to gun season.
Easy choice.

Maybe I'm a hypocrite, but since using one I've relaxed my opinions on WHY someone might CHOOSE to use one. It really does allow alot of people to bow hunt that might not otherwise be able to. It's also MUCH easier to become proficient with. I still practice alot, but not for the reasons I used to with a compound.
With 3 kids under 7 years old, I like the fact that I don't NEED to practice as much as with a compound, although I still do.
So I definately get why people would be drawn to crossbows. What i don't like is the instant bowhunter that is made by the simple purchase of a crossbow and a license. Sometimes those guys really don't appreciate what bowhunting is all about.
BUT there's a GREAT many really good bow hunters whose only difference is their weapon of choice.

Brock,
Your personal insults are starting to show your true colors. They're not even clever ones to boot. And don't think for a minute that they hide the glaring lack of substance to your arguement.

[Big H]

Where can I get a popcorn eating smiley?

[Gunners]

Coon, I don't mind your perception of my hunting method. Not at all. I used to feel the same way about crossbows.
When I was 20 years old, 20 years ago, I got tossed out of my car at 70 mph and into a tree. A tree branch went through my left shoulder and tore off my deltoid muscle.
Without a left deltoid muscle, I can no longer pull back my compound, much less hold it at draw.
So for me it's either crossbow or no bow. And there was no way I could limit myself to gun season.
Easy choice.
Thats what I'm talking about, I had to start using a crossbow do to rotator surgery. To keep hunting with a bow it became my only option. I also like the fact that I could start my grand son out at an earlier age because of the ease of use. The crossbow has made a huge impact on the bow season in Ohio, and not all who use them have the first name of Bubba.
My Name is Jeff:yikes:

[epe]

Coon, I don't mind your perception of my hunting method. Not at all. I used to feel the same way about crossbows.
When I was 20 years old, 20 years ago, I got tossed out of my car at 70 mph and into a tree. A tree branch went through my left shoulder and tore off my deltoid muscle.
Without a left deltoid muscle, I can no longer pull back my compound, much less hold it at draw.
So for me it's either crossbow or no bow. And there was no way I could limit myself to gun season.
Easy choice.
Thats what I'm talking about, I had to start using a crossbow do to rotator surgery. To keep hunting with a bow it became my only option. I also like the fact that I could start my grand son out at an earlier age because of the ease of use. The crossbow has made a huge impact on the bow season in Ohio, and not all who use them have the first name of Bubba.
My Name is Jeff:yikes:

With ya on the shoulder injury.. I love to hear people whine about crossbows, yet gun hunt for deer... I think people should hunt with what weapon they feel most comfortable hunting with.. I would rather have someone use a crossbow and make a good clean killing shot, then have some use a traditional (for the challenge) and wound a animal,making it suffer.. Everyone should realize we have technology for a reason.. If you don't like technology, don't let me catch you using a car or truck :D (let the bashing begin) :D

[coonskinner]

With ya on the shoulder injury.. I love to hear people whine about crossbows, yet gun hunt for deer... I think people should hunt with what weapon they feel most comfortable hunting with.. I would rather have someone use a crossbow and make a good clean killing shot, then have some use a traditional (for the challenge) and wound a animal,making it suffer.. Everyone should realize we have technology for a reason.. If you don't like technology, don't let me catch you using a car or truck :D (let the bashing begin) :D

i never said anything bad bout bows or bows one uses...with all my aches an pains...if i hang up the recurve...i'll draw high card to see which i'll use xbow or compound:yikes: ...but i will not use a release aid...:D

[epe]

i never said anything bad bout bows or bows one uses...with all my aches an pains...if i hang up the recurve...i'll draw high card to see which i'll use xbow or compound:yikes: ...but i will not use a release aid...:D

If it makes you feel better, when I use to shoot my ted nugent model oneida screaming eagle, I shot with a finger tab :D

[coonskinner]

If it makes you feel better, when I use to shoot my ted nugent model oneida screaming eagle, I shot with a finger tab :D

i shot the original black h250 onieda eagle an the screamin eagle with the fab tab,same tab i use today...those were deer killin machines...so i pitched them for the challenge...a browning firedrake recurve,or it may have been i lived in c-town then,at the edge of the wayne...:biggrin:

[mullskinner]

If it makes you feel better, when I use to shoot my ted nugent model oneida screaming eagle, I shot with a finger tab :D

I STILL LIKE OLE' CP'S ONEIDA EAGLES ..:shhh: :rolleyes: DOAN OWN ONE NO MORE THOUGH ...:nono:

[Tufelhundin]

Where can I get a popcorn eating smiley?


http://www.hikinghq.net/forum/images/smilies4/gob_icon_drama.gifhttp://smilies.vidahost.com/cwm/cwm/lurk.gifhttp://www.hikinghq.net/forum/images/smilies4/gob_icon_drama.gifhttp://smilies.vidahost.com/cwm/cwm/lurk.gifhttp://www.hikinghq.net/forum/images/smilies4/gob_icon_drama.gifhttp://smilies.vidahost.com/cwm/cwm/lurk.gifhttp://www.hikinghq.net/forum/images/smilies4/gob_icon_drama.gifhttp://smilies.vidahost.com/cwm/cwm/lurk.gif :whistle:

[Andy Gehle]

Here's my final words as there's not much of this dead horse left to beat.

I'm a blowhard. I make no bones about it. I have opinions and I share them. If someone isn't comfortable hearing opposing opinions, then they really shouldn't be posting on the world wide web for everyone and anyone to read and respond.
It's just the way it works. When your share your ideas or opinions so publicly in front of millions of people, you gotta figure that one or two might not see things the way you see them. If you don't have a thick enough skin, or lack the ability to handle any kind of dissenting opinions, maybe you should rethink your level of participation. Pretty simple concept.
XX78, can't take it anymore? Want the thread locked? Another great thing about the internet is that YOU are the one clicking on the thread. It's not like you're over hearing a conversation in your living room now is it? Don't like it, don't read it. Again, a REALLY simple concept to grasp.

For those of you who missed it, I have no problem owning up to my original post. Again, it was my decision to edit it, because I was indeed kind of a dickus. But it read something along the lines of:

"4 shots and two misses. Maybe you guys should have practiced more and xxxxxx with the cameras less."

I get the fact that it reads rather bluntly. But you know what, I still think it's a legitimate statement. You might not like it, I may sound like a jerk for saying it, but it aint that far away from some truth.
I decided to choose my words differently, but I still beleive there's substance to the statement.
I know FOR ME, if I lobbed 4 arrows at deer this year, and only 2 of them found their mark, than I'd spend a whole bunch of time trying to figure out where I went wrong. And if I posted those results on the world wide web, I'd EXPECT someone to question me, my accuracy, my practice regime, etc...

I do indeed feel kind of bad for the friend in question here. I'm sure she's an enthusiastic hunter and as concerned with things like clean kills as much as I am. And quite honestly, if I heard this story face to face from that hunter, I'm sure I would have candy coated my words alot more, but delivered the same message.
But again, when one chooses to share this kind of story with the entire world, and do it in the written word, how can you really not expect to have someone come forward and start questioning?

I'm sure I got a little carried away when the two buddies started defending her so vehemently. Natural reaction. Not an apology nor an explanation. Just a statement.
I'm sure I'll do it again and still maintain that it was a productive exchange, less the personal insults.

I have opinions. I'll feel free to share those opinions. Please feel free to either give me a pice of your opinion or simply don't read. If the powers that be don't want my opinions heard anymore, than I'm sure I'll be the first to know.
But you gotta admit, it's alot more interesting of a read than, saw two does last night, getting back out today. Or at least a lot more informational and thought provoking.

Flame on.
Sincerely,
The gut shooting blowhard.

[BuckEyeCam]

Update on the "arrow lobbing" - It seems that the "Expert Tracker" (me) was to blame more than the shooter:nono: Actually it doesn't seem that way IT IS THAT WAY:irked:

Becky shot this deer at 30 yards broadside - I recovered the deer at 50 yards from the shot. I found him last night, doing the ever so popular "let's find the arrow game". We were just sure she missed and found no evidence that she had made contact at all. Plus we had what we thought was the buck on the camera 1 minute after the shot - It appears that that buck had a brother that looked a lot like him. The one she shot was a small ten point and the one we have on camera was a small ten point. No excuse though.

I was the one doing the tracking and should have never doubted her shot. Should have spent more time looking for a dead deer and less time trying to recover a "miss" arrow. Even though she is a "NOVICE" as some put it she is deadly with that bow. And still is deadly with that bow. That is one reason I was so persistent about her abilities with the bow. She just doesn't miss.

I pulled out every trick I had but couldn't seem to close the deal. You know the drill if you have ever searched for a deer.
The fact of the matter was I was within 5 yards of this deer for some time and never saw him. No sign - plenty of tracks but it is a very high traffic area so there are always a lot of tracks.
He basically bolted from the shot and piled up 50 yards away on the hillside.
The shot was on target (obviously) and lethal, I just blew it for Becky.

This is a terrible thing to have to admit but I take the blame for not being able to recover this deer. It was my game and I dropped the ball.
He was only 50 freakin yards away and I missed it!

There is no upside to this event at all - but for those keeping tally on the shot count change the miss to a kill - Becky is 4 for 4 with her bow.
Bitter sweet - More bitter than sweet -
So if anyone is to blame I'll take the heat - As far as the shooter, the shot and hit - can't blame Becky because once again she has proven her ability to be lethal with the bow ...... She really should consider getting a new tracker though - cause the one she had just got busted back in the ranks.:nono:

[Big H]

That sucks. I have a question, does the deer have a tag on it now?

[eschatts]

Great story BuckeyeCam, thanks.


Ed

[Gunners]

But then again some guy's like that stuff. All I got to say is Congrat's to Becky on the deer and she has 1 more dead deer then me this year. Of course you could help me fix that problem and I be more then happy to let you track anything I shoot. Keep you in practice, only thinking of you of course. Good Job.
Jeff:yikes:

[Andy Gehle]

Dude, whether you believe me or not, I'm very glad to hear that. Glad for your friend.

This does however, open up a whole new set of discussions.....I'll try this time to use as much tact as I can muster.

It seems that my original premise all of a sudden does indeed hold true. That too much attention was devoted to the cameras and not on the shot, or in this case, after the shot.

Here's the ORIGINAL account of the story that you guys shared on here regarding your friend's situation:

"At dark, we met up with Becky and she told the tail. We went to the scene of the shot and found no sign of a hit. Sean suggested that since the deer was in front of a Buck Eye Cam when she shot, perhaps we should go back to the house and check what the camera saw. It revealed the deer was missed cleanly, in fact, he came back to the spot to see what had happened! Those cameras are awesome!
"

Awesome may not be exactly the word I'd choose for the cameras' role in this situation. No camera in this situation and you find that deer sooner, prior to spoilage. I say this because you guys said it was the camera that revealed the clean miss, not the hunter.

Now you're saying there was a twin deer in front of the camera? 30 yards away also? And the hunter never sees this twin deer? The original deer bolts after the shot, I assume, and this twin is in the exact same spot a minute later? No one sees this?
Color me confused. I'm in no way saying this isn't what happened...how would I know without being there? So all I can go on is what you type on here. And quite honestly, it reads very confusing.

It's a real shame for that animal that those cameras even came into play during the hunt. It's a shame for your friend too.

Where's the carcass right now?


This kind of brings me full circle to my original point. Cameras, videotaping hunts, etc...can often lead people to do things they wouldn't normally do. Not everyone, but sometimes and what seems like lately, sometimes often.
In the past year or so, I've read on here:

"..small buck that I wouldn't normally shoot, but it was my first ever kill on tape."
"..we wanted to get some film so we shot a button buck"
"...the camera revealed the deer was missed cleanly"
"...we had what we thought was the buck on the camera 1 minute after the shot - It appears that that buck had a brother that looked a lot like him."


I'm certain you vehemently disagree, but I think there's some substance to my point. Cameras CAN, not always, but CAN make people do things they wouldn't normally do....shoot smaller deer for the sake of film....give up tracking a deer becasue the camera showed something that wasn't there...etc...
Cameras aint real life. They show an image of what they see, and apparently from what you've typed, they don't even show an accurate picture of an image, or at the very least, it's easy to misinterpret what someone sees on a camera.
I say this because it sounds like you guys are on some kind of camera team or something. I don't know if that means you're sponsored or if it's your product. Either way you sure mention this Buck Eye Cam quite often by name as in a commercial.
So is it safe to say that you guys would be the experts on these particular cameras? Or at least you must have some training or experience in using the camera, I can assume.
For ME, not everyone, but for ME, if I see the experts on the cameras placing so much emphasis on the camera's role, struggling with what they even see on the cameras, and ultimately being deceived by the camera to the point where the camera says "miss" while the deer is piled up 50 yards away.....well that's not much of an advertisement for those cameras for ME.
I'm a results kind of a guy. In this case, the results speak volumes.

[BuckEyeCam]

Andy give it a rest will you:irked:

I am not your dude.

I have already beat myself up over this, kicked the dog and unless you are in line for something from me - it might be best to leave the sleeping dog lay on this one.

I could have left the entire events of last night go unscripted, not admit my fault and leave Becky hang as the poor shooter. But didn't....

No matter what you say or do isn't really important to me or how I do things. You just worry about Andy and spout off about what you feel is important at this time. But let it be known I am not listening to you. (I am trying to be nice)

I was out in the middle of a storm last night searching for an arrow that I was sure "missed" and found a whole lot more. The fact of the matter was I was out there looking - come hell or high water, which nearly did last night, both were present and so was I.

Becky has tagged the deer and the carcass will remain for nature to take it's course on my property - It was pretty much gone as it were anyways.

[eschatts]

Becky has tagged the deer and the carcass will remain for nature to take it's course on my property - It was pretty much gone as it were anyways.

Good Job Becky. Thats more than alot of people would have done.

Ed

[Andy Gehle]

Why so much anger directed at me, dude? Is it me or the situation that angers you?

You guys pile personal insults on me, call me little xxxxxx and everything in between, tell everyone that I'm retreating when the going gets tough, that when I'm questioned on MY shot that I turn tail and hide, and I'm the one who needs to give it a rest? And who is it that's retreating?



If I'm "in line" for the next xxxxxx then so be it. You know my real name (which is a rarity on the internet), I know you have a computer with internet access.....so it wouldn't take a rocket scientist to find my phone number or address.

And don't break your arm patting yourself on the back for looking for an arrow 5 days later.

[Huber920]

If you fellas are as diligent at hunting as you are at pointing out facts in this discussion with each other, then you must be outstanding hunters!! ;)

[Andy Gehle]

Thank you.

[eschatts]

We are going to open this thread back up in hopes that the personal attacks and name calling will not happen again.
It is a very interesting thread.

Ed

[coonskinner]

:nono: ...

[coonskinner]

:nono: ...

this is where zbone should make an entrance into the ring!!!:yikes: :eek:

[deerhunt45]

:mischeif: :nono:

[CritterGitter]

Ok, I have met Andy and I know the guy. He is not self rightious. In fact, he is a fun guy and I would fish, hunt, camp or swig beers at Hooters with him anytime.

I am not posting here to defend him as I can see he is doing a fine job. I see many members posting here and they are making presumptions. That gets you in trouble. Kind of like the ole Bowsite days. Only difference here is that not everyone, inlcuding those individuals that are in charge of the website, see your presumptions the same way you do.

If you want to video your deer hunt then that is a fine endeavor. I offer a bit of advice in that you ought not put the cart before the horse. Good luck fellas!

Kyle

[brock ratcliff]

The only "hunt" that was videoed involved myself and BuckEyeCam. That resulted in one dead deer, no misses and no messed up opportunites. One shot, one kill, short trail.......ect.

The point of this little tale was simply to share with others what I thought was a fun-filled weekend hunt.......not to open my friends up to criticism.

It was fun, we had a blast and I doubt very much if I bother to tell another "hunt" story here. Obviously, some think they are so great they wish to point out another's flaws, whether they are real or imagined.

[eschatts]

The only "hunt" that was videoed involved myself and BuckEyeCam. That resulted in one dead deer, no misses and no messed up opportunites. One shot, one kill, short trail.......ect.

The point of this little tale was simply to share with others what I thought was a fun-filled weekend hunt.......not to open my friends up to criticism.

It was fun, we had a blast and I doubt very much if I bother to tell another "hunt" story here. Obviously, some think they are so great they wish to point out another's flaws, whether they are real or imagined.

I for one enjoyed the story. I look forward to more, good luck to all.

Ed

[Huber920]

I enjoyed the story as well. I hope to read more like it! Don't let what happened in this thread discourage you.

[deerhunt45]

I for one enjoyed the story. I look forward to more, good luck to all.

Ed

i second that.

45 :coolgleamA:

[Andy Gehle]

I wouldn't let some schmuck with a keyboard (me) stop you from posting whatever you want.

[eschatts]

I wouldn't let some schmuck with a keyboard (me) stop you from posting whatever you want.
AMEN:)

Ed

[Andy Gehle]

AMEN:)

Ed

You didn't HAVE to use capitals.:D

[TexasPete]

I have no idea what Tuffy is talking about. Ask around, I've invited lots of guys on here to hunt, lent them bows, met them at Meet and Greets, etc...

Back to some productive debate, although I'm not a big fan of their forum, these guys have some of the best huntings article archives going. This one sums up my point better than was able to:

http://www.bowsite.com/bowsite/features/practical_bowhunter/shotdistance/index.html

I have had the pleasure of hunting and fishing with Andy and he is a great friend and sportsman. I can understand his response to the original post, but I'm sure he did not mean any harm. Andy has been a tremendous mentor over the past couple seasons and is a big reason why I still hunt. He's just trying to keep the sport a noble one and his intent was by no means an attack. His response was based on facts that were communicated in a post. He was not there to witness and he has seemingly made it clear that it was based solely on what was written. Please to not misintrepret what was written. Andy only means well. My 2 cents... take care. Let's all be nice!