Ohio Upland Habitat Stamp

[Lance]

With another Ohio upland bird season upon me I think about the prospects of this season. We have grouse hunting that is below it's potential due to an ever maturing forest base with little logging being done. A pheasant population that is put-n-take throughout most of the state and a quail population that offers iffy hunting available in only a handful of counties. A concerned group of upland sportsman have formed and the proposition we're placing is to work with the state to create an Upland Bird Habitat stamp and use the funds from this stamp for habitat acquisition and improvement for Ruffed Grouse, Pheasant, and quail in Ohio. This will be to assist WILD birds, no fund are to be used to supplement the current put-n-take pheasant program.

We have also setup a Yahoo Group for those who are interested it can be reached at the following link:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/OUBHS

If you know someone who is interested that does not have email access or does not wish to subscribe to the Yahoo board, feel free to email me the name and address (snail mail so that we can add their information to our database so that they may be included in future information.

[Aimrite]

What GARENTEE is there that says 100% money goes into bird habitat and who controls revenue collected?

I think we pay more than enough as Ohio sportsman and much of money generated from our hunting fees are misdirected to other things. The money is already there to accomplish your goal and in my opinion you need to go after the ODNR for it. Not more fees.

[Lance]

Aimrite,
Actually it wouldn't be all that difficult to account for the usage of the funds. You should be able to draw direct correlation from the number of stamps sold to the money spent on upland birds. As far as the DNR has enough money to do what is needed I really have to disagree there. The money gets spread pretty thin between general admin/running the DNR and other programs. Also the DNR has been making good use of existing license dollars the past 10 years. In the past 10 years there have been several wildlife areas established or added to. Those that come to mind are Brush Creek (additions) Egypt Valley(New) Tri Valley(new) Woodbury(additions) and the new one they just released this week (3500 acres in Harrison county). Egypt, Tri and Woodbury were each land acquisitions of 10,000+ acres. The flip side is that land is NOT cheap in Ohio and this takes a large amount of the general license dollar to make these nice new purchases.
The state however does need to work on the upland habitat for all of the state land and this also costs money. Much of the older areas need some cutting for grouse habitat and most of the pheasant and quail type cover is poor to non-existent. These birds need more than overgrown blackberry bushes and goldenrod to flourish. These fields need to be plowed under or burned and replanted with grasses. Again more money is needed. The idea for the habitat stamp is to make this stuff happen and NOT used to supplement the pen raised birds. Again this is to benefit WILD birds.

I welcome ANY input/questions regarding this subject!

[Aimrite]

Lance, as long as revenue from stamp is 100% put towards habitat program I am for it If not I cant support it.

”“The money gets spread pretty thin between general admin/running the DNR and other programs"

Exactly what I’m afraid will happen to our stamp money.

I tried to get into the yahoo forum and couldn’t so please make my concerns known in there for me.

Thanks

Aimrite

[Lance]

By all means, the entire amount of the stamp must go towards the program. That is a core peice of the foundation for the support. As far as the forum goes what you do is sign-up for it and the forum owner approves it and then your in. It's a private group to protect it from spam getting into it.

[DargDog]

In Indiana, we have a gamebird habitat stamp that is used in a similar manner. It is required for all upland bird hunting, including turkeys at $6.75/stamp.

This money is devoted entirely to fund gamebird land purchases and developing food plots/habitat on the same grounds. This land was in IN's traditional pheasant range and was intended to serve as central breeding grounds so that the birds would begin to spread. Approximately 15 yrs ago the state began to conduct special hunts by draw on these properties. That is the only hunting allowed and each property is only hunted about 10 days/yr. 1 hunter and up to two guests on a property of 80 or more prime IN pheasant acres. Its about a 10:1 odds of getting drawn though. Been twice and had a great time.

Ohio seems to have better DNR resources than IN. The news about the new hunting areas are a prime example. If the ODNR could make these dedicated funds, not subject to budget crunch raiding by the statehouse, it could be a very nice program.

[bonasachasa]

i would like to see an upland bird stamp if as stated before it all goes to better habitat. but i also agree the dnr has plenty of funds. the last increase in lisc fees got us a pretty new color hunting regulation booklet and not much else. and small game is generally ignored. and if all of us took a hard look at where our money was spent you would be surprised . in the late 80's i had a nieghbor who was happy one sunny summer morning to share with me that his job with the state was to train urban utes (youths) how to fill out job applications and do inteviews for employment. and just out of curiousity i asked what state department he worked for ( education would have been my guess) but no it was our great state of ohio dnr. now i might have went to a rural school system but in the country they taught me how to get a job in school , and even if these were urban drop outs stick there butts back in school so the state ed board can pay for that. my only other thought is keep the turkey out of it these birds are already over populated and under hunted even on state ground.and if they are included i would be opposed to giving the state another cent to hunt.

[birdhunters]

I say definately NO! Not too many years ago you could buy just a hunting license and hunt game Ohio had to offer. Now we have a deer tag, a turkey tag, a fur takers permit, a wetlands habitat stamp and a federal migratory bird stamp. What is next, a state gun stamp, or a state ammo stamp? Again I say No! The state has more than enough money to improve upland game habita, if they wanted to. Remember all the un-reclaimed strip mines around the state. Those mines had to post bonds BEFORE they striped. What happened to all that money. The list goes on and on how wastefull some of the ODNR programs are. I say cut some of the fat cat salaries at the top of the money barrell. Some of us are on a fixed income and can't really afford another stamp.

[Lance]

Bonasa,
Without a doubt this would be strictly for habitat with the intent of helping the upland small game birds, NO TURKEYS. They’re doing more than well enough.

Birdhunters,
I understand your concerns about costs especially on a fixed income. I guess there are several ways to view all of the various stamps involved these days but If you look at Ohio hunting opportunities over the past 20 years most of those that you mention the additional stamps for have improved mildly to drastically. While the state can't take too much credit for the growth in the deer population (but some) you have to admit that it did bring back the turkey’s (like'm or not) and the waterfowl hunting has gotten substantially better through proper management. Meanwhile the upland birds have taken a beating/mainly due to loss of habitat.
Sure it would be nice to go back to the old days of one stamp does it all but the fact is that our entire environment has changed. From the increased cost for wildlife officers to the constant legal battles from the tree hugger groups and the like that are trying to take the biologist out of the equation for land/wildlife management and make it a social issue. It all takes money. With licenses sales flat and expenses increasing I really don't see how we can expect to see improvements in small game management with out some kind of influx of dedicated money. Upland birds are not a big money maker for the state so the cash goes where the loudest demand is. This would guarantee something would be done.

I look forward to more discussions regarding this topic!

[Bubbahunter]

ok i`ve got something for you to chew on.

i lived in North Carolina for awhile and got a sportsman license, this included your hunting and fishing license. with this was ,

deer tags- all 6 of them

2-turkey tags

state waterfowl stamp

2-wild boar tags

1- bear tag

all this and all it cost was $40.


with the sportsman license you still needed to buy your trout stamp and the salt water stamp(tag?)

i feel that the state of ohio has enough money to do what they need to do for habitat and to help the wild birds without making us spend our hard earned money on anouther stamp that will pay for something we don`t really need.

i`m all about helping the habitat and conservation but i for one think it`s time for the DNR to stop spending money on the things that don`t benifit the WILD birds. the put and take of pheasents is fine as long as they would spend the same amount of money or more trying to inprove the wild populations first..


just my thoughts,

Bubba

[bonasachasa]

got to disagree there put and take is money straight down the drain no return for the money and there are plenty of places to hunt planted pheasents the state should get out of that buisness

[gunner70]

Two years ago I wrote the ODOW and ask them to issue a grouse stamp. What I told them was that all the money should go to buying logging eguipment. Hire there own loggers and take out trees in areas that have grouse or could hold grouse. And take the money made from the trees and buy more land. The only problem I have with pheasants is. They have tried to introduce them in licking county. And it was a wash. Not to mention that there are to many hunters that hunt pheasant. If you have gone to the put and take areas its a war zone. I just cant see pheasants making a good come back unless they closed hunting for a few years. Like they did for quail. Now Im not chewing on the ODOW because ohio has the most public hunting areas in the United States. But at least in licking county we now have snowshoe hares again. Even though the ODOW states we will never be able to hunt them. :rolleyes: Any way this is a topic thats hard to get the ball rolling in the right direction. But keep at it who knows. The only anawers I got from the ODOW was an open house inventation they hold every year. Thats were you have a voice. good luck. As far as a upland stamp count me in. As long as the funds go for what they are intended for. I wouldnt mind lets say a 10$ stamp.;) But what burns my but is that we have to pay 20$ to hunt deer and there are around 500,000 hunters that pay that every year. The same holds true for turkey hunters. Not to mention the fur takers permit. That was 12$ a pop. And then you have the cost of hunting license. Then you hear they are in finance trouble. Make no sense to me.:eek: Any way good luck;)

[bonasachasa]

after thinking over our current welfare state of put and take pheasents i dont believe this stamp would be a good idea.the first thing they would fund with it is the put and take program,and that would be the last straw so to speak for me and i would find myself not hunting birds in ohio, already this year alone my out of state days hunting out number in state 2 to 1 due to loss of hunting grounds ( mead leases) and poor habitat due to the lack of second growth forests on state property.and with the NEW wildlife diversity adittude of the odnr. they already seem to funnel money from non game animals at will while making it illegal for me to shoot a fox hunting the same bird cover as me unless i have spent 10$ more on a furbearer permit. seems my conservative roots are taking over. the state has enough of my money. and i know that it supposedly wont fund the put and take program, but it would be better to discontinue the put and take and use those funds for better habitat.

[Lance]

Everyone involved in this sees thinks exactly as everyone here about the Put/Take pheasants. No monies could be used towards that and the only reason we haven't talked about going the route of doing away with the Put/Take in this proposal is that I believe it is important to keep the interest in bird hunting no matter how tainted the put/take experience is vs wild birds. I would expect that once the project got rollling to the point that good habitat had been restored at wildlife areas that they could re-introduce wild birds they would close the areas to pheasant hunting all together for a few years. There are good wild pheasant areas in the western part of the state and many other areas used to be. No reason they couldn't be again with some effort.

I like the idea of the state doing some of there own logging. That could make it easier to goin and clean a little 10 acre clearcut where a logging company may not be as prone to messing agound with such small parcels.

Keep firing away guys!

[Aimrite]

How are we funded?

The Department of Natural Resources is funded by many different funding sources. All divisions and programs are funded from multiple sources of revenue be it from licenses and permits, user charges, registrations, federal funds, fees for services, and various taxes. Most divisions are funded in part from the state's General Revenue Fund (GRF). The Ohio General Assembly authorizes the Department to spend money on programs via the biennial budget process. Funds are allocated to the Department according to available resources of revenue projections and cash balances in all funds including the GRF. Some funds are established for specific purposes or to receive specific types of revenue. These funds are typically restricted for specific uses, but are all ultimately controlled by the General Assembly. The Department is charged with operating programs within the finite resources authorized by the General Assembly.

http://www.ohiodnr.com/hr/budget/faqreorganization.htm

Basically the bureaucrats get all the money and decide how it is spent, Id love to se revenue brought in vs. allocated to the ODNR.

Lance this is how are money gets wasted byt the OGA. How will your group exactly get around this?

[Lance]

That's a very good question that will need to be addressed. Without some way to gurantee the funds are allocated properly there will be no support. The plan is still very young and there will be many things to be worked out. Right now the biggest thing is to build support and get feedback to help determine the best direction to take this. I'm sure this is going to turn into a very large undertaking will require alot of energy to see this through to completion. Any and all support will be very much appreciated!

[bonasachasa]

i really like the idea of helping our struggleing wild bird populations (grouse , those chinese chickens have over stayed there welcome :D ). but the theory is no money for put and take but the guy who only hunts put and take has to buy an upland stamp to hunt them? your going to get the state in the logging buisness!?!?!? please the ten acres( way to small in my opinion to do any good)will cost us 4 or maybe 10 times what the private sector would. but the more i consider it the more problems i see and the state ( not just picken on the dnr here) makes 2 problems for every 1 they solve. and my main core belief is that it will always be mother nature and the private sector( farmers changeing practices, or fur prices taking a dive) that sets how and when a species will or wont thrive and the state throwing money at it wont change it.

[Aimrite]

Just FYI Montana already has aprogram in place .

http://www.fwp.state.mt.us/wildthings/uplandgamebird/#habitatenhancement

[Aimrite]

Upland Game Bird Habitat Enhancement

Landowners can reap the rewards of a cost-sharing program when they improve their land and make it more inviting for Montana's upland game birds.



Montana Fish, Wildlife & Parks can work directly with landowners - and other individuals, groups and organizations - to improve private and public lands for Montana's native sharp-tailed grouse, sage grouse, and mountain grouse, as well as the state's adopted game birds - ring-necked pheasants, Hungarian Partridge, and wild turkeys.



Landowners can apply to enroll in the updated cost-share program to develop, enhance, and conserve Montana's upland game bird habitats if the land in the project area remains open to reasonable public hunting. Up to 75 percent of the cost of the Landowner's Upland Game Bird Habitat Enhancement project can be reimbursed.





Need help determining if your land can be enhanced for upland game birds?



Projects eligible for funding under the Upland Game Bird Habitat Enhancement Program should comprise at least 160 contiguous acres of land, with some exceptions. Your FWP wildlife biologist will help you determine if your land can be improved to offer upland game birds better:

Winter cover
Food plots
Nesting cover
Shelterbelts
Habitat components, including range management, conservation easements - and wetland restoration, for the benefit of upland game bird populations.


Wondering how to get all this done?



After you and FWP agree on how and where improvements can be made, your FWP wildlife biologists will:

Help you prepare management plans.
Lend a hand in your efforts to establish suitable nesting cover, winter cover, or feeding areas through cost-sharing leases, or conservation easements.
For more information and an on-line application form visit FWP's website at fwp.state.mt.us - or call your nearest FWP office.



Hunting preserves, lands that host a commercial hunting enterprise, and lands where hunting rights are leased or paid for are not eligible.







TO CONTENTS

Upland Game Bird Release Programs
Ring-necked Pheasant Releases


In 2001, Montana's Legislature revamped the state's Upland Game Bird Release Program. The program can reimburse landowners for raising and releasing pheasants in suitable habitats.



The intent of the program is to establish new pheasant populations for public hunting.



Individual landowners can apply for enrollment in the program by contacting the closest FWP office (see map).



Projects on private and public land - submitted in partnership with youth organizations, 4-H clubs, sports groups, or other associations that can guarantee the completion of all project requirements -- also are eligible.



Need help determining if your land or project is a good fit?



Projects eligible for funding under the Upland Game Bird Release Program must comprise at least 100 contiguous acres of land and contain a combination of winter cover, food, nesting cover, and other upland game bird habitat components needed to establish viable upland game bird populations.



To determine if your land or project is a good fit, your FWP wildlife biologists will:

Assess your upland game bird release site.
Help you prepare management plans.
Lend a hand in your efforts to establish suitable nesting cover, winter cover, or feeding areas through cost-sharing leases or conservation easements.
Determine the number of pheasants that can be supported on the project area.
Reimbursement requirements for releasing pheasants

Birds must be at least 10 weeks old at time of release.
Birds must be fully feathered and beginning to resemble adult birds in size and markings.
At least 40 percent of the released birds must be roosters.
Bird banding may be required to determine release effectiveness.
FWP must be on hand at time of release to verify and sign reimbursement forms.
Reimbursements will be based on the average market cost of birds raised by certified hatcheries or game bird growers in Montana.
Releases are limited to five consecutive years.
Application for releases must be made by May 15 and releases done between August 1 and September 15.
Hunting preserves, lands that host a commercial hunting enterprise, and lands where hunting rights are leased or paid for are not eligible. To help determine the success of this program Fergus, Richland and Roosevelt counties are not eligible. These counties will serve as "control" counties where wildlife biologists will monitor pheasant populations and compare them to counties where pheasants have been released.

[Lance]

Thanks Aimrite and Bonasa
Input is what I'm looking for. There is no official positions taken on anything Just looking for ideas and opinions so we can work from there. I hadn't heard about the MT program. I knew about IN and MN stamps and programs. Bonasa, I can see your points/concerns regarding the ODNR getting into logging. The only difference I would have is that the while there is a lot of cutting to be done 10 acre parcels are the recommended plot size with various aged cuts in an area. You need to keep some good drumming area close by.

[Aimrite]

Looked like Montana had good program working with property owners to improve habitat then assisting them with reintroduction once habitat is in place. It also opens a lot of property open for public bird hunting.

This all sounds great but every effort needs to be made to keep preserves and people looking for personnel benefit out of the program.

Hunting preserves, lands that host a commercial hunting enterprise, and lands where hunting rights are leased or paid for are not eligible.

[gunner70]

One of the best places I hunt has 325 acres. Out of the 325 aprox 300 has been logged. I am no expert. nor do I have a degree. But 10 acres of cutting is not enough. you have to cut it in a way that you open the forest floor. But leave the tops piled in areas. You also have to leave 5-10 acres of cedars around the cut. The grouse need cedars to thrive. Also in those cuts you need to leave some mature trees. Like oaks, hickory. That way you let the rats with furry tails replant it. You must leave all old trees standing(dead ones) In my opion cutting fifty acre tracts are the way to go. Then leave a 10 acre buffer zone. And cut again. Complete clear cuts bites. The reason is briars take over and choke out any area were trees can grow. I just went to mead owned proprety and they are doing it some what right. they have clear cut at least 500 acres. And have at least 200 or 300 left that is not cut. But they had one problem no cedars left in those areas. But on one ridge they planted cedar/pines every ten to fifteen foot apart. And the trees were already 3 foot tall. they also left a few old oaks around. soon the briars will start growing and you have the making of nesting areas. But to give the grouse time to populate the area. I wont be back for another 5 years. Even then it might be to early. I could go on and on about grouse cover. But let the experts call the shots. I dont own 300 plus acres to help with raising grouse. But the state does. And with the right management ohio could be the grouse capital of the united states. My friend is a grouse coroperater for the state. And I keep a half but log. But I can tell you from reading about these soo called grouse states. Like wis,min,mich that we average the same or more birds an hour than they do. All the state has to do is get off the bottoms and let the young men and women at ohio state.( In case you didnt know thats were most of our dow officers come from) Go to great grouse cover and learn what it takes. They could even ask for samples of what grouse eat in certain counties. All the hunters have to do is open up the crops of birds to see. And land owners that are going to log there land. Let them tell you what to look for. But I still think the state needs to cut there own trees. That way you dont have renegade loggers cutting trees that need to stay. And sell them there selfs. With the money buy more tools of the trade. And after a few years every park that had grouse on them or around them. Will be full of the brown blurrs. Case in point east fork state park. It wouldnt do a thing for grouse. Because there are no grouse around there. But it would help out the woodcock. The reason I say woodcock is because ive stumbled across a few nests with young there before. Any way I am tired of venting. But if a state rep wants to learn the way grouse hold in certain cover in different weather conditions I would be more than happy to show them. As long as they didnt have a chip on there shoulder. As a far as that goes anyone who wants to know what to look for I will show them. But like I said I am no expert. Just a man who has worn out lots of boots looking for them the last 12 years. ;)

[Lance]

I guess I should have been a little clearer regarding 10 acre clear cuts. The thought behind the 10 acre cuts is that you do more than one in an area and add a couple every year or every other year. Grouse ideally like 7-20 year old growth depending on the type of growth and staggering the plots provides more cover in the long run vs having it all grow old at once. A number of the areas I hunt in Michigan are timbered kind of like a checker board and allow for various ages of timber to meet the needs of the varied requirements. A few small pines in a large clear cut can act as a double edge sword. If roosting cover is at a minimum hawks owls quickly figure out where the birds congregate for an easy meal. This is another reason it is important to maintain some additional stands of larger timber. A long term management like this will provide consistent stands of good cover both in quantity and quality for the long term

[atrkyhntr]

I say the best advice is to join the company of others that are already involved. This I say for may reasons the best couple being the sheer number of members already onboard and the money these same organizations already have at their disposal... Below is a list of some that are in the area your looking for and need help from to get the ball rolling:
Pheasants Forever (http://www.pheasantsforever.org/) Ohio has over 35 chapters just waiting for new members!
The Ruffed Grouse Society (http://www.ruffedgrousesociety.org/) Contact them to see what is being done on a national level.
The Gilbert R. Symons (SWOhio) Chapter (http://www.ruffedgrouse.org/) Contact them to see what is being done on the state level.
National Wild Turkey Federation (http://www.n***.org/) Belive it or not but the N. W. T. F. has given money to help with grouse restoration right here in Ohio with one area being located in SE Ohio.

Here is but one example of how more then one group can help when resources are put together:
The Ohio Department of Natural Resources (ODNR) Division of Wildlife today formally dedicated Ale's Run State Wildlife Area in Noble County, encompassing 2900 acres of reclaimed mine lands. Ohio's newest state wildlife area lies about five miles southeast of Caldwell, between Interstate 77 and State Route 78.
"I am proud that the Division of Wildlife, working cooperatively with the National Wild Turkey Federation and the Ruffed Grouse Society, was able to acquire this valuable piece of property for Ohio sportsmen," said ODNR Director Sam Speck.
"Since 1990, the Division of Wildlife has acquired more than 58,000 acres of surface-mined land, demonstrating good natural resource stewardship and conservation while promoting quality outdoor recreation for all Ohioans," Speck said.
The property is being purchased from The Conservation Fund, a Virginia-based nonprofit foundation that assists organizations and agencies in protecting America's land and water resources. The $1.1 million purchase price includes the cost of the land, survey expenses and title fees. Partners participating with ODNR in the acquisition include the National Wild Turkey Federation and the Ruffed Grouse Society.

I am a member of the N. W. T. F. and proud of it :D :cool:

[Lance]

Right you are. I support most of thos groups already in one way or another. There is more to be done though! :)

[atrkyhntr]

Hey Lance...
There is more to be done though!
Very true... I do alot of game management of my own for my guide service and you would be so shocked at how easy it is do so much with little or no time involved.
We do pruning and fertilize local browse including grape vines, honeysuckle and berries with slow release fertilzer like 20-20-20 in a small hand held spreader...
Digging a few holes around the drip lines of oak and other nut bearing trees then placing slow release fertilzer like 20-20-20 in the holes really helps... Nothing like a backhoe to dig a few feet deeper in a runoff to create a small pond or water hole... So much to do takes so little time... That is where a few friends can make all the difference :D