.17HMR Savage Groups

[CatDaddy]

I bought a savage 93R17BVSS the other day. I have been out shooting it and have came up with a problem. The very first shot I shoot hits 1" high and 1" left, after that first shot it shoots right on and will put 5 shots in the size of a dime at 50 yrds. If I let the gun cool down for an hour and shoot it again its the same thing, first shot is high left then the rest are right in a group. I want to use this gun for squirrel this year but I dont like what im seeing. Is there anyway to fix this? HELP!!

[MrFurious]

The first shot (cold bore shot) very rarely has the same POI as those shots following it. It's not a problem with the rifle, but rather a metalurgy affect caused by the temperature differances. The key is to know the POI of your CBS shot so you can properly hold off for it. (This is all pointed out in several marksmanship books.) The same problem exists in many guns with the first round fired after a good thorough cleaning.

1" @ 50 yards does seem like a lot though as most of my guns don't vary that far off at 100yds. Even so, there's probably little that can be done about it. If it were a crown or chamber issue, you would have a problem with irratic groupings and not just a first round issue.

What type of rest are you using when shooting? If you're shooting off sandbags and they aren't packed VERY tight, part of it may be attributed to the sand compacting a little from the first shot and providing a more solid foundation on follow-up shots (which will have an effect on harmonics).

[CatDaddy]

Thanx Mr.Furious, but I got it figured out already. The gun didnt like the hollow point CCI's. I started shooting Hornady V-max and it shoots dime size groups at 50 yrds now with no dfferance in where the first shot goes.

[mullskinner]

The first shot (cold bore shot) very rarely has the same POI as those shots following it. It's not a problem with the rifle, but rather a metalurgy affect caused by the temperature differances. The key is to know the POI of your CBS shot so you can properly hold off for it. (This is all pointed out in several marksmanship books.) The same problem exists in many guns with the first round fired after a good thorough cleaning.

1" @ 50 yards does seem like a lot though as most of my guns don't vary that far off at 100yds. Even so, there's probably little that can be done about it. If it were a crown or chamber issue, you would have a problem with irratic groupings and not just a first round issue.

What type of rest are you using when shooting? If you're shooting off sandbags and they aren't packed VERY tight, part of it may be attributed to the sand compacting a little from the first shot and providing a more solid foundation on follow-up shots (which will have an effect on harmonics).

SAVAGE GURU,
DO THE STAINLESS BARRELS HAVE A BREAK IN PERIOD IN YOUR OWN OPINION :confused:
THANKS MULLSKINNER:)

[MrFurious]

Every barrel has a "break-in" period, though I prefer to refer to it as "seasoning" the barrel.

What happens with the first 100 or so rounds is that any burs are removed, the sharp edges of the rifling are smoothed over, and most common tooling marks will be smoothed out. Custom barrel makers take care of this by hand-lapping their barrels, however this doesn't "season" the metal of the barrel through the heating and cooling process.

Ask 100 people how to break-in a barrel and you'll get 101 answers. The key is to clean often during the first 100 rounds or so. The reason this is needed is because the copper and carbon fouling will fill in any tooling marks and prevent them from being smoothed out. You don't have to clean every round or every other round, but it doesn't hurt either as long as you're doing it properly (more crowns and chambers are damaged from improper cleaning techniques than anything else).

BTW, if you ever buy a used gun that won't shoot no matter what you do, try cleaning it with some GM Top End Cleaner and a bore brush. This stuff will cut through the worst carbon fouling, which most gun cleaning chemicals don't touch these days. You'll know immediately if you had a carbon buildup as the gunk that you push out will look like mud.

For really stubborn carbon fouling (like the carbon ring that forms just forward of the case mouth) use Iosso Bore Paste on a brush wrapped with a thin layer of 0000 steel wool.

[mullskinner]

Every barrel has a "break-in" period, though I prefer to refer to it as "seasoning" the barrel.

What happens with the first 100 or so rounds is that any burs are removed, the sharp edges of the rifling are smoothed over, and most common tooling marks will be smoothed out. Custom barrel makers take care of this by hand-lapping their barrels, however this doesn't "season" the metal of the barrel through the heating and cooling process.

Ask 100 people how to break-in a barrel and you'll get 101 answers. The key is to clean often during the first 100 rounds or so. The reason this is needed is because the copper and carbon fouling will fill in any tooling marks and prevent them from being smoothed out. You don't have to clean every round or every other round, but it doesn't hurt either as long as you're doing it properly (more crowns and chambers are damaged from improper cleaning techniques than anything else).

BTW, if you ever buy a used gun that won't shoot no matter what you do, try cleaning it with some GM Top End Cleaner and a bore brush. This stuff will cut through the worst carbon fouling, which most gun cleaning chemicals don't touch these days. You'll know immediately if you had a carbon buildup as the gunk that you push out will look like mud.

For really stubborn carbon fouling (like the carbon ring that forms just forward of the case mouth) use Iosso Bore Paste on a brush wrapped with a thin layer of 0000 steel wool.

THANKS AGAIN ...:)

[CatDaddy]

I have come to believe it was an issue of barrel break in and ammo choice. I get happier and happier everytime I shoot this gun. I love the .17HMR!!!