Upset neighbor!!??

[Zeek]

Was posted on a deer drive this year on my property bordering my neiighbor.. Was 40 yards from his fenceline/house 20 more yards watching my woods as the drivers came, 4 does/1buck came out.. I shoot at the 1st doe as I had killed my buck during bow season. Next thing I know I am getting yelled at by my neighbor for shooting to close to his house(As I am shooting the opposite way)?? Now I am on my own property 70 acres he owns 2. We are in the country not in city limits>> He calls the sherrifs dept. to file a complaint (as i was told by one of my FRIENDS) was never contacted by the local game warden as he was supposedly coming down to investigate it that day the report was filed(Dec 1) My ?? Did the neighbor have a legit b----??

[chadwimc]

Somewhere in the regulations is a rule about "so many feet" from an occupied dwelling. I wouldn't want somebody blasting away 150+- feet from my door. Unless I was in on it:D

[Thunderflight]

If you were 40 yards from my house shooting a gun I'd be concerned too. That is pretty close regardless if your shooting the oposite direction. I doubt I would have called the police though. I probably would have come over and talked to you about it politely the first time.

[Caribou Dreamer2]

If memory serves me correct as long as you were 300 ft from any housing or road than by the law you are fine,But consideration for the land owner and there neighbors is always a plus.

[hunTer06]

dont even bother to call 1-800-WILDLIFE cause youll never get a sure answer

[Thunderflight]

40 yards = 120 feet.

[TIP]

I was in my house when I heard my dingbat neighbor shooting his 22,I stepped out on my porch to see what he was shooting at. The dingbat was pointing and shooting his 22 at my property .My house and dingbats house are 40 yards apart. I walk over to talk to him very politely and ask him what he was doing and he said he was shooting his 22. I asked dingbat what he was shooting at and he said he was shooting his 22 at my trees behind my house.I told him very politely that I had a wife and 2 kids and a 80 year old neighbor women that lives next door and she goes outside in her back yard and that he needs to quit shooting his 22 in the direction of my house. Well the next day I was cutting my grass and took a break to get some water and I was walking up my porch and dingbat shot his 22 and I looked over at him and he thru up his arms like to say what are you going to about it.Well I went and got my 12 gauge shotgun with 5 shells and walked over to his property and I put 3 shots into his fancy birdhouse and I came back to my house and Ilooked back at him and he thru his arms up in the air again, so I put the gun up and took off running at him and he went in the house and had his mom come out and talk to me. I told her what I thought of her 25 year old son shooting his 22 at my property. We have a great relationship now I don't talk to them and they don't talk to me and that's the way I like it. :bouncy: :D . Zeek people get thouchy about shooting close to property lines so be careful.

[OHBOW76]

I agree Zeek,
You need to look at the regulations regarding this. Plus if you have 70 acres and he has 2 acres, it doesn't mean that becuase you own more land you have more say. If anyhting if you have more property than utilize more of it that isn't right next to his house. I dont think he should have called anyone without first talking to you, but when someone starts shooting right next to your house it can be unnerving. By the way you also never stated whether you had a good neighborly relationship with the guy to begin with. My suggestion is find a better spot further away from the edge of this guys property.

[Buckmaster]

I think the regs state 300 feet.

[OHBOW76]

I think your right buckmaster..........

[Zeek]

He has yelled at me the last 22 years of hunting, no lie!! I would be 400 yards on the neighbors property and he would come see if we(me and the landowner) had permission to hunt there?? I do know his wife is a PETA member (known fact) but you think after 22 years he would give up!! I think he just wants to yell at someone?? I will have to find out how far legally you have to be away from a structure(occupied) to hunt then next year it will be interesting.. He should get the point!!!!

[chadwimc]

If this is an ongoing urinating contest, check the state law. Then put up a nice box blind within a few feet of the legal line:mischeif:

[OHBOW76]

Is it legal for him to tresspass onto private property to ensure if you have permission? As far as the regs state the only people authorized to ask for a permission slip, are Wildlife officers, police officers, owners of the property, or an authorized agent of the landowner. If he is none of these its none of his buisness. Now that you ssituation has been clarified some, I still would be careful about hunting too close to his property, the law is the law, if its 300 feet than make damm sure its 300 feet. If he is harrassing you while you hunt, there are laws that prohibit the harrasment of hunters, and you would have a case since his wife is a known anti-hunter.

[coonskinner]

i love it an animal rightist moves from the city to the country and immediately assumes everybuddy is wrong and must do it their way...i have run into this out at my sisters place...over 100 places out in that rural area...99 are hunters thats had the land in the family for over 100 yrs...and the only one thats an anti hasnt even owned land for a year...and to top it off they are dumb enough to not know why they cant make freinds with the neighbors...well i guess after the second year they were bout ready to move and all of a sudden they decided they loved their lil piece of the country too well...last i know they gave somebuddy permission to hunt their land,50 acres...and now they are making freinds with the neighbors...too bad some cant understand they are just not in the right place...dont make them to mad,these kind of people have been known to shoot a hole in something on their property then call the police and press ...and report a hunter did it...be careful with this...:mischeif:

[joey1946]

This same discussion went on and on over on the NWTF site a few weeks ago. The bottom line was that in OHIO there doesn't appear to be any 300 foot rule, 5 foot rule, or any other rule concerning how far you must be from another property if you are on land where hunting is legal and you have legal permission to hunt. Of course, you are responsible for that projectile that you fire no matter how far off the line you are when you pull the trigger. On NWTF this began as a discussion on the definition of a roadway and escalated to cover this topic. SUPPOSEDLY ODNR was contacted and confirmed this info.

It's a bad idea to push this too far since Indiana is now proposing a 300(?) foot buffer zone rule. Can you imagine how much land in say, Southeastern Ohio, would become unhuntable if this was passed in Ohio?

[CStan]

Be careful not to use the condensed version of the rulebook that comes with your license as the final word. There are regulations regarding hunting which are not in the booklet.

[joey1946]

Very true Stan but in this instance it became such a peeing contest on the other forum (NWTF) I mentioned the entire Ohio Revised Code was searched and no 300 foot rule or anything close to it was found. That doesn't mean that some obscure township somewhere in the state doesn't have some more restrictive rules. If anyone has a 300 foot rule in print please post it with a legal reference from the source obtained. There are some restrictions on areas that border schools etc. Anti-hunters and neighborhood bullies often make up their own rules. For example, when the loveable old NBC anchorman Tom Brokaw retired to his 25,000 acre ranch out west he tried to get bowhunting banned on the land that bordered his property stating he thought it was a safety issue for himself and his guest. "Google" Brokaw - hunting - bowhunting and read that story for yourself. It is a hoot.

[Thunderflight]

I was in my house when I heard my dingbat neighbor shooting his 22,I stepped out on my porch to see what he was shooting at. The dingbat was pointing and shooting his 22 at my property .My house and dingbats house are 40 yards apart. I walk over to talk to him very politely and ask him what he was doing and he said he was shooting his 22. I asked dingbat what he was shooting at and he said he was shooting his 22 at my trees behind my house.I told him very politely that I had a wife and 2 kids and a 80 year old neighbor women that lives next door and she goes outside in her back yard and that he needs to quit shooting his 22 in the direction of my house. Well the next day I was cutting my grass and took a break to get some water and I was walking up my porch and dingbat shot his 22 and I looked over at him and he thru up his arms like to say what are you going to about it.Well I went and got my 12 gauge shotgun with 5 shells and walked over to his property and I put 3 shots into his fancy birdhouse and I came back to my house and Ilooked back at him and he thru his arms up in the air again, so I put the gun up and took off running at him and he went in the house and had his mom come out and talk to me. I told her what I thought of her 25 year old son shooting his 22 at my property. We have a great relationship now I don't talk to them and they don't talk to me and that's the way I like it. :bouncy: :D . Zeek people get thouchy about shooting close to property lines so be careful.

Note to self: Don't mess with TIP.....;) ;) ;)

[Thunderflight]

If this guy has been yelling at your for the last 22 years you might try filing hunter harassment charges against him. If that doesn't work build a privacy fence along the property line.

[10Gauge]

I don't know ALL of the Ohio Revised Code so I can't tell you an actual revised code number for this but, I went back thru some very old Ohio Hunting Regulations booklets that I collect and found the following in the "It's Illegal to" section;

It's Illegal to;

"Shoot a firearm within 400 ft of a school or church or 500 ft of a dwelling."

"Discharge a firearm 300 ft from a road."

This came from a Ohio Hunting Regs dated 1978......is it still the law?!?!

TF makes a good point! However, you have to prove "harrassment" and him yelling at you across the fence while you have a gun may not be enough proof! Heck, I'm not a tree-hugger but when my neighbors are shooting guns (I'm in a township, too) I get concerned because you don't know where or what they are shooting at.....I don't always go out yelling but I do ask questions.....I'm surprised TIP didn't spend a few days in jail for shooting the neighbors bird house? Calling the police may have been a better solution but chances are that would not have solved the problem of "bonehead" neighbors!

[Thunderflight]

500 feet is a pretty good distance. That's around 166 yards.

[joey1946]

For something to be "illegal" in Ohio it must say, for example, "violation of this is a misdemeanor of the 1st degree". You can change the "1st degree" to anything from "minor misdemeanor" to "misdemeanor 1st" but if it doesn't have this kind of wording it is not "law". I can't believe a 500' dwelling rule or 300' roadway rule would not be prominently plastered all over that big ODNR Hunting publication every printing and would pretty much shut down a lot of the hunting we do in several areas of Meigs, Hocking, and Fairfield Counties. I don't think it is "law" but again, to repeat, you are ALWAYS responsible for every projectile you fire no matter how far off the "line" you are when you fire it. I am not an attorney so take this for what it is worth and, if it is a real problem, check it out for yourself. Is there some reason ODNR avoids direct answers to this question? It should be pretty cut and dry. There is either a 300 foot LAW or there isn't.

BTW - I do remember the "school safety zone" stuff. It came about when several slugs were lobbed into a Perry County(?) school back in the late 70s or early 80s.

[coonskinner]

joey...300" is not that much...i dont think a lot will be lost...personally i have always used common since and not hunted even close to a house,so i dont have to worry bout seeing game too close to a house and shooting with a gun...personally i dont even like to see houses when i hunt...i like to get far away from them...thats what i like about the wayne...i can get a mile from the nearest house...all i see is trees and hills...paradise...RESPECT those that live near public land...:rant:

[joey1946]

Sure sounds good at first read - but - in mixed rural areas like Ohio is now there really isn't that much hunting land that doesn't have some sort of dwelling within sight or sound of a shot. Probably a good "neighbor friendly" idea out in Montana but no longer realistic in Ohio. If a person buys and lives near public land they should know what they are in for. I have no sympathy for their whining. Anti-hunters would use a "safety zone" law for anything but safety.

["J"]

If the state was worried about it then I would think that they would of by know marked all the public hunting land that has those red no hunting past this sign due to being private land further out then 100 feet from some of the dwellings I've seen up here at berlin wildlife area. You would think that if the law read a certain distance from any dwelling then it would place the signs at at the least that distance. But hey I'm only a hunter who has to obey laws that aren't clearly written and have to search to find them.

[MrFurious]

For something to be "illegal" in Ohio it must say, for example, "violation of this is a misdemeanor of the 1st degree". You can change the "1st degree" to anything from "minor misdemeanor" to "misdemeanor 1st" but if it doesn't have this kind of wording it is not "law".

You're totally wrong on this point. If you read through the Ohio Revised Code, you'll note that the following phrase is everywhere: "in violation of the Revised Code or division rule is prima-facie evidence of the guilt of the person". Essentially the Revised Code gives the ODOR the right to enact, enable and enforce any "division rules" they deem necessary, no matter how pointless, senseless, or unwarranted they may be. If they wanted to, they could very easily make a rule to not sell any hunting, fishing or trapping licenses for next year, and they could get away with it because they report to no one. They aren't elected officials, they don't report to the Ohio legislature, nada.

Wait! It gets better...

Additionally, unlike any other type of law in this country where you're innocent until proven guilty, the exact opposite is true when it comes to the ODNR. It's a small phrase called Prima-facie. Prima-facie by definition is "Evidence that is sufficient to raise a presumption of fact or to establish the fact in question unless rebutted." In other words, a prima-facie case is a case that alleges facts in an attempt to prove the underlying conduct supporting the cause of action and thereby prevail. The "rebutted" above is the key here, as most people lay down and take what the Game Warden gives them without contesting it. The truth is that unless they have hard evidence against you (they witnessed the act, an eye witness, photo/video evidence, etc) to present to the court that you infact did commit the offenses they claim, you can contest the charges and most likely going to get them thrown out of court for lack of physical evidence to back up the claim against you.

§ 1533.29. Prima-facie evidence for violations.

The finding of a gun, net, seine, boat, trap, or other device that is set, maintained, used, or had in possession in violation of the Revised Code or division rule is prima-facie evidence of the guilt of the person setting, maintaining, using, or possessing that property. The finding of a wild animal, or part thereof, unlawfully in the possession of any person is prima-facie evidence of the guilt of that person.

HISTORY: GC § 1395; 108 v PtI, 577, § 6; 119 v 369; 123 v 84(130), § 2; Bureau of Code Revision, 10-1-53; 130 v H 573 (Eff 9-30-63); 145 v S 182. Eff 10-20-94.

In short, you're guilty from the getgo because they are not required to find any hard evidence to cite you.

So say you have a real prick for a Game Warden in your area who for whatever reason has it out for you. He can basically make up a bogus charge and confiscate your firearm and any game as evidence at the scene, even though he has absolutely NO evidence that you did anything illegal.

Now what most people don't know is that a Game Warden cannot legally take your hunting or fishing license on the spot, though they all insist they can. This is clearly outlined in the following:

§ 1533.68. Suspension or revocation of license or permit.

If a person is convicted of a violation of any law relative to the taking, possession, protection, preservation, or propagation of wild animals, or a violation of division (C) of section 2909.08 of the Revised Code while hunting, or is convicted of a violation of any rule of the division of wildlife, the court or magistrate before whom the conviction is had, as an additional part of the penalty in each case, shall suspend or revoke each license or permit issued to the person in accordance with any section of the Revised Code pertaining to the hunting, fishing, trapping, breeding, and sale of wild animals or the sale of their hides, skins, or pelts. No fee paid for such a license or permit shall be returned to the person.

In short, only a judge or magistrate can suspend or revoke your license.

Here's a great link for the Ohio Revised Code and the Ohio Administrative Code for those interested.

http://onlinedocs.andersonpublishing.com/oh/lpExt.dll?f=templates&fn=titlepage.htm

If you want to have some real fun, call up the ODNR and request a complete copy of their Division Rules. They won't give it to you because they don't want you to know what the rules really are!

Want to have even more fun, if a game warden ever harasses you and tries to issue a citation, request to see the rule or Code you violated right there on the spot. Just be prepared to bite your tongue to keep from laughing as you'll hear some really lame excuses why they can't do that.

And no I'm not against Game Wardens, I'm just against those who abuse their power because they know 95% of the hunters and fishermen have no clue what their rights really are.

[joey1946]

Sounds like you have some experience with this Mr.Furious. I'll still stand by my original contention that if you are given a criminal citation it will have both an ORC section number listed as well as a degree of (MM through M-1) misdemeanor. There are laws and there are regulations. They could well have added a "catch all" law that gives a criminal penalty for a violation of a regulation and I missed it. It would have to be that the law being violated is a violation of an ODNR hunting regulation. That's why I was sure to put in the "I ain't no attorney" disclaimer. Since I retired I'm lucky enough to have to worry about the laws and regulations in OH, FL and KY. They are all different on this subject. FL even has a "trespass shot" law that is a FELONY. You'd love this one. It pretty much shuts down the float hunting of any rivers.

To get back on point - I just brought up the 2005-06 ODNR Hunting Guide. I can't think of one good reason why the phrase, "or within 300' of", would not have been added to page #1 of the guide where it says, "It is unlawful to shoot from,on, across, or along a public road or highway". If there was a 300' law or regulation it would have been added here - I think:confused: - I hope. This could very well be a case of, "don't ask, don't tell". It probably makes law enforcements job easier if everyone thinks they can't hunt within a set number of feet from roads or dwellings. It could also be that in the departments opinion if you are within 300' you are considered "along". I like to play with this kind of stuff. I'll make a few calls, check some other web sites, etc and let you know what I find. Good luck.

[MrFurious]

Nope, no personal experience here (knock on wood). I just know a few attorneys who also happen to be diehard sportsmen.

[joey1946]

:D It isn't as hard as I thought for anyone interested.

First "google" OHIO ADMINISTRATIVE CODE - then scroll around until you find the Hunting Regulations. It will look like 1501:31-15-02. It begins with the "hunting from, on, across along the road stuff". 300 feet isn't mentioned. When I have more time I'll look all through this. This is a BIG section and I'll bet whenever a question comes up you'll be able to get the true scoop here.

Game Wardens are under the same constitutional constraints as any other Law Enforcement Officer. Always be respectfull but you haven't totally given up your rights under the 1st, 2nd, 4th, or 5th Amendments when you purchased a hunting/fishing license or firearm. They know this. Good luck to everyone this season.

[Ripley]

im with coonskinner .....
its far nicer to see NO houses at all and got your peace when you hunt , AND i just "love" those darn Cincy treehugger's who move to the Country and wanna tell me what i can and cant do like "dont kill snakes" , "nobody should shoot cute lil Bambi"......... Idiot i dont want lil Bambii want his Daddy !!!!!:coco:
I wouldnt deal with that dummy .... jus call the Police next time he crossesthe propertyline to check your license.

[OhioHunter88]

I do remember the "school safety zone" stuff. It came about when several slugs were lobbed into a Perry County(?) school back in the late 70s or early 80s.



It would suprisme those locals that live down in that there Perry County Are crazy, i wouldn't mess with those guys;)


Kaleb

[Zeek]

This topic is now closed!! ohio has no regulations pertaining to shooting distances from a residence.. I guess this has been heavily debated for years according to Mr. Game Warden... but it comes down to LANDOWNERS rights;) Like he said some people opt to shoot groundhogs from their home!! He did say rules applied to schools,churches and cemetaries but I never went into it with him as this does not pertain to my situation:dizzy: I now know which fenceline will have about 6 guys posted on it at the crack of dawn each morning for DA DRIVE:mischeif: :idea:

[coonskinner]

law or no law...just use common sense i believe most do...i have relatives who own land in the sticks...even the trespassers seem to know to stay better than 300 ydss away...my sister and brother in law own 35 acres in concord church(by the church)...there is houses on their property line all around the property...a moto cross race track with buildins on one side...now i have never had to think too hard about respecting these people and keeping a fair distance from their house when i open up with a gun...i dont shoot in the direction of any house...i always know where they are and mark fire lanes to prevent shooting in their direction...it dont have to be a law...its called common sense...i would not want somebuddy rattling my bows on the wall and deer pics...respect...and you will prolly even get it back...:rant:



:mischeif: