why did black widow stop... [Archive] - Ohio Sportsman.com

backstrap

12-30-2005, 05:43 PM

I heard Ken Beck has or is in the process of selling the business to I believe 3 of his top employees. Does it mean the price of the bows will drop, I seriously doubt it. A while back I ordered a catolog from those guys, and man, the frickin' prices are totally outragous. The limbs alone on thier 3 piece recurves are as much as a compound with all the bells and whistles. The bows are beautiful, but not for the prices they're asking.

coonskinner

12-30-2005, 05:58 PM

i do not think they are worth that much personally but if somebuddy has money to burn and get one then whatever floats their boat...so no problem with 1000$ bows...but why did they stop doing what widow did in the earlier yrs...bear makes a 1000$ bow but they also make reasonable priced bows,they like widow are a very old company...the same can be said for martin,they make the gail martin or whatever its called and it aint cheap but again they still remember the little guy...black widow is not a small time operation like many custom bowyers are and can mass produce bows...:)

tuffshot

12-30-2005, 06:14 PM

Because, CNC machines are expensive to build and operate.

Because, the amount of wood they use in the riser is also expensive.

Because they have a large following and good resale value..:D

coonskinner

12-30-2005, 06:19 PM

tuffshot...i didnt say they could not charge a lot of money for xpensive bows...i am saying why dont they make reasonable priced bows too...they can use the same design,just lower cost woods...we'd still be talkin 500$...:eek:

tuffshot

12-30-2005, 06:39 PM

Well CS, I am not sure if they still sell them or not but they did make an all black model that was not as expensive as the SA and MA's

Also from what I hear it takes along time to get a bow when ordered, they are always backed up with orders. So I guess when your sell high dollar bows with a waiting period the lower dollar bows are not on the menu..;)

coonskinner

12-30-2005, 06:49 PM

widows are made on machine...:eek:

Thunderflight

12-30-2005, 07:07 PM

I actually recently heard something about this.

From what I understood, the owners of BW were thinking of getting outta the bowyer buisness. The decided to jack the prices up to where no one could afford them. What happened is not only did more people start buying them, but a cult of widow lovers grew too.

I think widows are nice bows, but cost WAY to much for what you get. I also tend to think that alot of people buy them just so they can say they "own a widow".

If you want to spend the money then by all means go for it, but I will match either of my Chaparrals against any widow and I will guarantee you that they perform dang near the same and for about half the cost.

mullskinner

12-30-2005, 07:16 PM

hmmmmmmmm :rolleyes: coonskinner i counted the days up on my bow and it's realy only been 28 days since i ordered it ...soooooooo it realy ain't been toooooo loooooong :rolleyes:
fells lika year !! :D :D :D :D :eek:

Thunderflight

12-30-2005, 07:21 PM

Your Cahoka will perform dang near as well as a widow too.

mullskinner

12-30-2005, 07:24 PM

and a lot less money !:D

save me some money for other things like arrowz and stuff !!;)

coonskinner

12-30-2005, 07:29 PM

well like i said if one wants to waste their money...whatever floats the boat...its their money...sell 1000$ bows to the status quo with money to burn...but wouldnt it be nice if they remembered the small guy...like most companies of long standing have...like widow did in those years before...maybe i should quit looking at these old catalogs...:confused:

Thunderflight

12-30-2005, 07:33 PM

Widow isn't the only one. Have you ever priced a Morrison?

tuffshot

12-30-2005, 07:42 PM

Morrison, Hummingbird, Fedora, and several others are right up there with the Widows starting price of $850 plus. Try and get an OL Adcock and see how long the wait and prices are :eek:

I would not take anything away from bows like TF's Chapperals, but resale value of the Widow stays up there alot longer.

I just figure other than a bowyer ole Ken is a marketing stratigist too!!!;)

Thunderflight

12-30-2005, 07:44 PM

Originally posted by tuffshot

I would not take anything away from bows like TF's Chapperals, but resale value of the Widow stays up there alot longer.

This is VERY true. Chaparral's don't have any resell value, but why would anyone buy a traditional bow with the intention off eventually selling it?

tuffshot

12-30-2005, 07:58 PM

You would be surprised! TF.

There are so many guys looking for the holy grail of trad bows that if they can't shoot it, it goes up for sale. I have even seen bows bought before they were even finished at a price lower than the guy who ordered it paid for it.

The bowyers today are as individual as the bows they make. Each bowyer puts in his own personality and it does not fit everyone. I am sure you have cruised through the classified on other bow sites and have seen all of the bows being sold for whatever reason. Examples like, the grip is too big or too small, I have too many bows and thinning the herd, to name a few.

coonskinner

12-30-2005, 07:58 PM

morrison is a hand made bow so it dont count...widow is a production bow as it was when they made bows in the early 60s...they can mass produce like bear and martin...they can easily pop out thousands of 500$ bows for the little guy,like martin does and even many custom bowyers ...but we're staying with mass producers or those that have assembly lines using machines for just bowmaking...for fair comparison...black widow used to make economical bows...then somewhere they stopped...

maco12

12-30-2005, 10:16 PM

Have you guys ever shot any of the Bob Lee's?? Way less expensive than a widow and much better quality in my eyes....also better shooting. I've got an old hunter model and love it. I had Bob Lee make my wife a purple bow out of purple heart......now can you get that service form widow?? I also enjoy the old Wings that Bob built when he designed an built for Wing Archery.

The Widows are nice, but if I was going to spend that much, it would be on a Morrison. His bows are just special....love the grip and the bow shoots soooooo smooth.

maco12
:cool:

tuffshot

12-30-2005, 11:19 PM

Yes maco12, I have. I shot one of his longbows and a recurve at Denton Hill last year. They are as before, a well made bow and smooth to draw and shoot. Bob has done something few bowyers do, and that is leave one bow company only to form another.

One of the most recent bowmen to do this was Matthews, after he lost or left Macpherson he started another bow company and has made history.

maco12

12-31-2005, 12:39 AM

Made history is putting it mildly.....However, Mathews does a lot more than make bows. Check out his guitars!!!! High quality....he's also one heck of a businessman. I'm not a Mathews shooter by choice.....just not my pick in compounds. I'm a Hoyt man....also like Bowtechs.....and Merlins are my favorite target bow......but Mathews has done well in the archery business.

maco12
:cool:

coonskinner

12-31-2005, 06:19 AM

hmmm very interesting bout the bob lee bows,i hear so much about them...i have another thread about them here and mainly the red wing hunter,it was a very economical bow at the same time black widow made a bow called the hunter in 1967...they were the same price i believe...wing also made a bow called the thunderbird,in 2 models 62" and 52" for 80$ in 1967,30$ more than the blackwidow hunter at 58" and also 30$ more then the famed red wing hunter...i am not a great redwing fan like many but love the thunderbird...yes wing like bear and martin still makes a bow for everyone,just not those who have deep pockets...

Thunderflight

12-31-2005, 08:28 AM

You can have bows made custom for you by widow, but they will cost you more money.

Ever shot a Habu?

coonskinner

12-31-2005, 09:31 AM

its about why not a full line of bows in the midrange and even the lower range...they used to do it...bear,martin and even wing/bob lee still do even though they make a high priced bow too...i think widow somewhere forgot about the common man who makes up the bulk of bowhunters...they need to get back to the old companies values...that seems to be a problem today with everything ,it wasnt back in 1967...:eek:

tuffshot

12-31-2005, 11:42 AM

Originally posted by maco12
Made history is putting it mildly.....However, Mathews does a lot more than make bows. Check out his guitars!!!! High quality....he's also one heck of a businessman. I'm not a Mathews shooter by choice.....just not my pick in compounds. I'm a Hoyt man....also like Bowtechs.....and Merlins are my favorite target bow......but Mathews has done well in the archery business.

maco12
:cool:

I like Bowtechs too. They are another company built after the failure of the first bow company they had but it was not their fault for the demize. Bowtech has a large following now in possibly a shorter time than it took Matthews.

TF the Habu is another high priced bow but you do not see too many of them for sale, new or used.

Thunderflight

12-31-2005, 11:52 AM

Habu's cost more than widows.

coonskinner

12-31-2005, 11:53 AM

just got a good answer over on the leatherwall after about 60 responses from paranoid bw users,ironically the good post was from one who wont buy a widow but nevertheless gave a good insight why bw prolly does this...:eek:

Thunderflight

12-31-2005, 11:54 AM

So are you going to tell us?

coonskinner

12-31-2005, 12:00 PM

go to leatherwall,too much to write but if a lot forces me i will write a post on it,perhaps you can transpose it over here,its from rthompson...:confused:

Thunderflight

12-31-2005, 12:07 PM

I read it and didn't understand half of the crap.

coonskinner

12-31-2005, 12:10 PM

cant right now,i'm going shopping...for bows...:eek:

Spring fever

12-31-2005, 04:10 PM

Any of you guys ever make the trip Kalamazoo Michigan to the Trad show which is held the end of Jan. I was hoping there would be some Bob Lee bows there to try out. I have heard a lot about them and would like to shoot one. Lots of the top bowyers in the country will be there. A few years back the Wensel bros were there and I really enjoyed talking to them. We usually leave early friday and hit 3 Rivers Archery in Indiana first then do the show Friday eve and Sat. then leave in the afternoon and head to Cabelas in Dundee.

:) --Sf

Thunderflight

12-31-2005, 05:43 PM

I would love to go to something like that.

coonskinner

12-31-2005, 05:45 PM

never ben there but always wanted to go...its great to go to these places because you can try bows and compare...bob lee i've never shot but i've seen a few and they sure look good and well made...hopefully the ancient spirits people are there too,but i dont need to try their bows...i just like shootin them free...:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

Thunderflight

12-31-2005, 05:56 PM

Looks like it'll be a while before I'll be getting my Kadiac. :rolleyes:

mullskinner

12-31-2005, 06:08 PM

:rolleyes: :D

coonskinner

12-31-2005, 06:15 PM

why thn flt...why...:confused:

hunTer06

12-31-2005, 06:33 PM

question,

Black Widow Bows and Black Widow Buck Lures-Same Company??

coonskinner

12-31-2005, 10:46 PM

i do not know,well anybuddy know...:confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:

Thunderflight

12-31-2005, 11:22 PM

Originally posted by coonskinner
why thn flt...why...:confused:

Now atht I hgt a new Chaparal Apline i can't justify to the wife why i need ot gte a nother bow so the newbie alpine is ganna be my caribou bow in August

maco12

12-31-2005, 11:40 PM

not the same company.

maco12
:cool:

Thunderflight

01-01-2006, 12:17 AM

Just checked out BW's website and you can get a PS II for $760. That's pretty close to most bows.

I like the short risor recurves. ;)

tuffshot

01-01-2006, 12:26 AM

I shot a PSR this past summer and it was a quick and smooth bow for a one piece.

Thunderflight

01-01-2006, 12:31 AM

I would like to shoot one of them and a BW longbow sometime.

tuffshot

01-01-2006, 12:36 AM

I also shot an Ironwood longbow.
Although I do not own a BW I will have one in the future. They do have a feel all their own.

But right now I am saving for a longbow which will probably be a 21st Century.

tuffshot

01-01-2006, 12:37 AM

Thunder, check your PM's

coonskinner

01-01-2006, 08:32 AM

MARTINS AN BEARS ARE IN THE 450-500$ mid RANGE...YOU CAN THROW wing/bob lee in there too...these companies are as old as widow...they have stayed the course and still make bows for all classes of people/hunters archers...widow used to do it back when they started and in the 60s...also...:eek: ...then for some reason they quit making a economical bow,mid range bow but decided to make a high cost bow only for one class of people...even most of the custom companies i checked make a mid range and lower range bow...some that didnt are beginning to make them and many of the newer companies are just plain making higher end bows at half the costs of widows that are as good...i have even started seeing many comments from widow owners about that ...:eek: i can personally afford a widow,easily ,and i think they are one of the best looking recurves made...but as any high dollar bow i dont really think the price is justified especially for a hunting bow...but i could possibly fork out the money one day for a thousand $ bow...but it will never be for a widow,simply because they care less for the little guy...archery is different and to me there is no place in it for those that dont feel they need to give back to the sport...just my feeling about a company that started with money from the little guy and now they give nothing back to him...bear,martin,wing/bob lee havent forgotten their roots...:eek: thank you